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Post by Kappa Neko on Aug 25, 2023 6:48:17 GMT
Are we back to toxic vibes drama? Look, when the ME3 ending turned this place into a hate circle jerk I left for a while. I survived it. I was disappointed myself but still loved 99% of the game. And I got tired of the nonstop hate train. Nobody is forcing anybody to stay and be miserable.
Most BioWare fans have moved on already or they stick around to talk about other things most of the time by now. It's just fact that BioWare is sinking into obscurity for the vast majority of people. I will not be guilt tripped into not voicing my opinion.
I love DA2 and was never bothered by people saying it sucked. I love FO4 and the vocal minority of "true fans" hate it and talk shit about it every chance they get. So what? We're talking stupid videogames. People have opinions. Deal with it.
You'd think after a pandemic and in the midst of a massive economic crisis people would stop crying about stupid shit like who likes what videogame. Apparently not.
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 25, 2023 8:08:37 GMT
Again....a lot of this is just circumstantial, but to get rid of people that know what makes Dragon Age " Dragon Age" is like getting an IP, then tossing out everyone that made it successful for the last 25-30+ years for whatever reason. I know some have (and will still) shout about "younger, newer voices", but this is not the time to bring them in. Not in a ride-or-die game like Dreadwolf; you put them on a new IP where they can show what they're capable of and with a fresh start. Mike Gamble leaving is a blessing still (I'll admit, even him leaving still felt odd), but the fact that they're getting rid of people that know what this franchise should be is just telling to me. I have no faith in Dragon Age: Dreadwolf anymore; this will be the final act for Bioware I'm afraid. And if it's not somehow, I doubt we're going to get another Dragon Age game after this, unless this somehow pulls a phoenix rising from the ashes and takes the gaming landscape by storm. If Inquisition (and with Andromeda Devs filling in) was anything to go by, this franchise is going to be shelved next. I'm really thankful at this point that Larian has Baldur's Gate III. To be fair, I felt Andromeda was better than Inquisition...so there's some razor-thin hope, but again - I highly doubt it after all this. ???
Mike Gamble is the project director and executive producer of Mass Effect team.
Sure after BW Montreal was merged into EA Motive, he was out of BioWare for a while, but then he returned back to BioWare after Star Wars Squadrons was completed.
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Post by DragonRacer on Aug 25, 2023 11:34:19 GMT
For some of us, BioWare was the old guard who gave it heart and soul. As more of the old guard now get carved away and cast aside as if garbage after 20+ years of writing some of our most beloved characters such as Varric... then, yes, for those of us who loved THAT BioWare, that version of it is slowly dying/gone. As much as you ask for people to understand you, it would be pleasurable if you would try to understand where others are coming from as well. Even then, people HATED Dragon Age 2 with a passion. Back then when I first joined, the old fans would often say cruel things to DA:2 fans. Insults, slurs, and I remember one person said that an artist deserved to have his hands chopped off for creating a picture of Hawke and Morrigan. To see it now being part of the "old guard" even though people thrashed it and thrashed me when I first joined the Bioware forum is ridiculous. People here never gave me a chance to understand why I loved games like DA: 2. Bioware fans treated me like trash and it's hilarious that DA: 2 is considered to be an "old guard" when I saw so much death threats to fans back then. So yeah, I can barely stand this site and these people who hate me for liking games that were hated and yet I sat and took it for years while you guys mourned Bioware dying. Honestly, Dragon Age fans have been awful to me and sometimes I wonder why I'm here talking to you guys. It's not like you guys cared about what I experienced for over a decade of being called every name in the books by a fanbase who CLAIMS to be diverse and caring but in reality are horrible people who treated me like garbage from 2011. COD and Overwatch fans were more welcoming to me than the Dragon Age fanbase ever was. Please stop speaking to me as if I was one of the ones who attacked or insulted you. I've been one of "the few" who liked DA 2 from the start (while also acknowledging some of its faults, which all games have). Varric has been one of my favorite characters in any media form for a long time so, yes, I'm quite perturbed by the letting go of his writer and others who drove the narratives of the games I enjoyed. I haven't bashed any of the games nor the people who enjoyed them, and this iteration of the forum didn't even exist back during DA 2 so that was on BioWare to police. Not really sure why I am being hung for the sins of others in your response but, again, I guess this should serve as a lesson that I need to pull back away from the forums like I have the past several years.
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Post by Guardian on Aug 25, 2023 12:48:50 GMT
I answered that question already - you bring them on in a NEW IP. Not one that the entire studio's survival depends on. One that they can shape from the ground up, where expectations are low, and they're not under massive pressure to perform. Because if this goes badly (and so far, all signs point to it will), the first thing to get blamed will be the writers. That is actually a really compelling argument and I agree...though in BioWare's case its not really that feasible sadly. Right now they are struggling to make ME and DA and that is having severe consequences for the company so another IP, specifically for BioWare, is not really an option. Though to play with your idea I would have to wonder if EA would have smaller studios working on games in a much lower pressure situation that these people can get trained on before being funnelled into a place like BioWare. Don't know the feasibility of that either because I don't think its just BioWare facing issues but the entire company...it is an interesting thought to consider. That's something to think about as well. You'd think EA would have smaller studios that these new writers could do that with, but, then again it's EA....so...probably not. And you're right - I agree that it's probably the entire company facing these issues.
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Inactive Moderator
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Post by mousestalker on Aug 25, 2023 13:28:53 GMT
I am not speaking for anyone else now. This is just my opinion. I have an especial loathing for gratuitous abuse and intolerance about matters of opinion. I also have a great dislike of people reporting non-insults. Please stick to the topic at hand and refrain from assuming that because someone disagrees with your opinion, they are insulting you.
TL:DNR, don't be a precious little princess.
Back on topic, layoffs are a sad part of the gaming industry. I'm inclined to think it's a bad idea in this instance. But I lack enough information to be certain.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 25, 2023 14:21:19 GMT
That is actually a really compelling argument and I agree...though in BioWare's case its not really that feasible sadly. Right now they are struggling to make ME and DA and that is having severe consequences for the company so another IP, specifically for BioWare, is not really an option. Though to play with your idea I would have to wonder if EA would have smaller studios working on games in a much lower pressure situation that these people can get trained on before being funnelled into a place like BioWare. Don't know the feasibility of that either because I don't think its just BioWare facing issues but the entire company...it is an interesting thought to consider. That's something to think about as well. You'd think EA would have smaller studios that these new writers could do that with, but, then again it's EA....so...probably not. And you're right - I agree that it's probably the entire company facing these issues. EA is doing cuts at all their studios since the start of the year. They cancelled a bunch of projects and laid off the devs working on them. Hell, their re-organization suggest they want to see if non-sport games actually makes enough money for them and probably flush the entire none-sport division if the ROI isn't what they want. It might be related with the rumors EA was for sales a while back now that I think about it. Maybe they are just going to sell EA Entertainment (the none sport games branch) and needed to clean-up the finances to make it look palatable.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 25, 2023 15:55:23 GMT
Man bioware just can't get a win at all. Feels like the last good press they had was DAI winning GOTY way back when. Fair. (excluding the Legendary Edition which was super, though not a new game). BioWare could really use a win after a decade... Ultimately talk is cheap, if Dreadwolf is excellent, that will do the talking and it may well have just got harder.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 25, 2023 18:10:33 GMT
Ultimately talk is cheap, if Dreadwolf is excellent, that will do the talking and it may well have just got harder. Even if it is excellent from a story and companion PoV, that would be down to much of the team that has been made redundant, plus likely other individuals who are not so high profile on the technical side who have also been dropped. I was watching a You Tube commentary on the news by someone who apparently works for a small independent game developer and they think the timing is odd in relation to a game for which we don't even have a release date. If the game is still some way off, it does seem odd letting key members of the team go, but if their contribution is pretty much done, why is it so far off release? Also, if the studio maintains that going forward they will be concentrating on what they are known for, single player, narrative driven games, why ditch their best people in this respect? This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA?
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Post by TabithaTH on Aug 25, 2023 18:37:52 GMT
I’ve been overcompensating to stay positive, but I just can’t anymore. With this news even I have lost faith.
I was hoping that DA:D would end the cycle of the next game suffering to get the previous game shipped. But it sounds as though it’s starting again, and ME has to help ship DA.
Honestly, as much as I want DA:D to be a super great game, I think it’d be healthier for Bioware if it flopped. Otherwise it’ll just be Bioware Magick again.
I’m not even sure I’d be interested in a DA5 if we get that far.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 25, 2023 18:52:52 GMT
I’ve been overcompensating to stay positive, but I just can’t anymore. With this news even I have lost faith. I was hoping that DA:D would end the cycle of the next game suffering to get the previous game shipped. But it sounds as though it’s starting again, and ME has to help ship DA. Honestly, as much as I want DA:D to be a super great game, I think it’d be healthier for Bioware if it flopped. Otherwise it’ll just be Bioware Magick again. If DAD flops i don´t think that Bioware survive this. The question should it survive? How dare i even to say this but Inquisition, Andromeda, Anthem and now Dreadwolf all has major problems in their developments. But but Inquisition is a huge successstory and that was Bioware´s downfall which lets to this. And no i don´t think that ME 3 and its ending play that much big role. Maybe in the view of their fans but internal the company was still intact. Is EA to blame? Yes and no or lets say not completly as EA haters would like it to be.
Maybe Bioware should go with a bang. Or do we fans really need a DA 5 and ME Next from them?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 25, 2023 19:03:58 GMT
This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA? One of the best points. Like you i wasn´t aware that they no longer any tax breaks for companies in Canada. This is big because there are to many companies starting with Ubisoft early 2000 who build up massive studios in Canada mainly in Montreal, Vancouver and Quebec. But if EA really want to shifted from Edmonton to Austin why the move to get rid of most of them in Austin. Sure some Online folks aren´t longer need i get that but so many?
Edit: By the way the forum is pretty bad right now i guess the traffic is to high too handle.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 25, 2023 19:48:00 GMT
I don't consider myself a hardcore fan but I've read them all 😅 I honestly kept forgetting they had a comic book series. I've read most of the books though and I loved them. I read a few, until I realized I was just paying for advertisements for the games.
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Post by Sundance31us on Aug 25, 2023 19:56:56 GMT
But if EA really want to shifted from Edmonton to Austin why the move to get rid of most of them in Austin. To make room for the Edmonton staff?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 25, 2023 19:59:42 GMT
To make room for the Edmonton staff? Why? How many canadians really want to work and therefore live in Austin / Texas ? Also why not the option to work more remotly at home?
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Post by Sundance31us on Aug 25, 2023 20:13:22 GMT
Why? How many canadians really want to work and therefore live in Austin / Texas ? Also why not the option to work more remotly at home? I don't know enough about Canadian rules/regulations/laws to speculate. However, if most of the layoffs are in Austin then its got to be the SWTOR shift to Broadsword that's causing most of it.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 25, 2023 20:20:37 GMT
I don't know enough about Canadian rules/regulations/laws to speculate. Come on this has less to with this than that Texas isn´t safe haven like Canada. I like some part sof the US but if i had move for my job or other reason to the US well hell no i won´t settle down in Texas or Florida. The recent layoffs have nothing do with Austin. Ok maybe one or two but most are from Edmonton.
Or in other word this layoffs are coming on top with ones in Austin. So yeah Bioware is really losing a lot of staff this year. You can even argue that this could be their darkest year yet.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 25, 2023 22:35:20 GMT
Ok - while, as always, it is OK to reference your own local/national laws etc regarding employment, redundancy and strikes while using those references to discuss Dragon Age/EA/Bioware, some very, very generic political comments have crept in. And true or not, this is not the forum for that.
Thanks.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 25, 2023 23:08:00 GMT
I don't know enough about Canadian rules/regulations/laws to speculate. Come on this has less to with this than that Texas isn´t safe haven like Canada. I like some part sof the US but if i had move for my job or other reason to the US well hell no i won´t settle down in Texas or Florida.
Austin is very "blue". And its crime rate is comparable to Edmonton's. Any reason for a Canadian to not feel safe there would be more due to the ungodly heat compared to the Land of the Male Leaf
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 25, 2023 23:18:16 GMT
Come on this has less to with this than that Texas isn´t safe haven like Canada. I like some part sof the US but if i had move for my job or other reason to the US well hell no i won´t settle down in Texas or Florida.
Austin is very "blue". And its crime rate is comparable to Edmonton's. Any reason for a Canadian to not feel safe there would be more due to the ungodly heat compared to the Land of the Male Leaf And how much is Austin LGBT friendly? Maybe it better an most areas in Texas but let me give another example. As an european / german myself lets say i won´t advice to move in some parts in Eastern Germany.
But i think we stop this discussion. I made my point clear and the mods are not wrong in remaining us to go back to topic.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 25, 2023 23:27:20 GMT
It's saddening to see... but at some point you're going to need new writers regardless of layoffs or retirement. I hate that they're leaving, but if there's junior writers there who want to stretch their legs, they're going to need experience at some point. People come and go in this industry. Everyone was ecstatic when Bioware hired Mary DeMarle as lead narrator for ME, so it's not like people who are accomplished writers can't be found out in the market. Im not apologizing for the layoffs. I just think people here need to also stop believing any new writer is going to suck, and that there's absolutely NO ONE who can tell worthwhile stories for these franchises.
Even great writers do write the occasional bad stories JMS the creator of Babylon 5 has written a lot of comics and he wrote Spider-Man: Sins Past which is one of the worst stories in the history of Spider-Man comics a storyline so bad that Marvel has tried several times to bury and throw it out of continuity.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 25, 2023 23:29:41 GMT
It's saddening to see... but at some point you're going to need new writers regardless of layoffs or retirement. I hate that they're leaving, but if there's junior writers there who want to stretch their legs, they're going to need experience at some point. People come and go in this industry. Everyone was ecstatic when Bioware hired Mary DeMarle as lead narrator for ME, so it's not like people who are accomplished writers can't be found out in the market. Im not apologizing for the layoffs. I just think people here need to also stop believing any new writer is going to suck, and that there's absolutely NO ONE who can tell worthwhile stories for these franchises.
Even great writers do write the occasional bad stories JMS the creator of Babylon 5 has written a lot of comics and he wrote Spider-Man: Sins Past which is one of the worst stories in the history of Spider-Man comics a storyline so bad that Marvel has tried several times to bury and throw it out of continuity.
And yet they keep One More Day...
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Post by Iakus on Aug 25, 2023 23:33:45 GMT
Though on a more serious note, part of the problem can probably also be traced to movies and tv doing a spate of reboots, remakes, and distant sequels to beloved franchises that have, at best, divided the base, and at worst have set entire IPs on fire. Adding unknown quantities to writing teams is now viewed upon with suspicion.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 26, 2023 8:46:01 GMT
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 26, 2023 14:26:35 GMT
Though on a more serious note, part of the problem can probably also be traced to movies and tv doing a spate of reboots, remakes, and distant sequels to beloved franchises that have, at best, divided the base, and at worst have set entire IPs on fire. Adding unknown quantities to writing teams is now viewed upon with suspicion.
Depends on the long running series.
I actually enjoyed Chinball as showrunner on Dr. Who for the most part and get that he was trying to shake up what was a stale show by the time Moffat left the series as showrunner.
While I don't like Alex Kurtzman as a writer (the only thing that I liked that he co-wrote was the 100th episode of Xena Warrior Princess) but I have to admit with the exceptions of Star Trek: Picard season 2 and all of Star Trek: Lower Decks (I don't think it's funny or clever and to me the characters are just annoying as hell) but I have enjoyed Star Trek: Discovery, Picard, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds a whole hell of more than I thought.
Star Wars 7 was good Star Wars 8 is the best film in the series and Star Wars 9 sucks Rouge One and Solo were good even they do come off as unnecessary continuity fluff. as far as the TV shows go: The Mandorloian bored me 15 minutes in the first episode, The Book of Fett didn't watch because wasn't a big fan Boba Fett to start with. Obi-Wan was fun and Andor was good but needed better pacing.
Marvel has been good to great with the exception of Secret Invasion which was just boring.
DC is a mixed bag The Suicide Squad, Peacemaker, Aquaman, Shazam!, Birds of Prey, and the first Wonder Woman film are all good, and The Batman was better than I thought it would be but at nearly 3 hours it's too damn long and at times is a bit dull. Man of Steel sucks and killed any desire for me to see Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice (and I had wanted to see a live action Superman/Batman movie since 1989), and Suicide Squad 1, and either version of Justice League. Wonder Woman 1984 was an 100% absolute piece of shit that is right up there with Man of Steel for character assassinations of Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor. The CW's Arrowverse shows were all good, now granted some seasons were awful like the third seasons of The Flash and Supergirl and Batwoman season 2 was a hot mess to say the least. My Adventures With Superman is all kinds of awesome.
Harley Quinn: The Animated Series is actually animated sitcom that is actually funny. The animated movies some are good in concept and suck in execution like Superman/Batman: Battle of the Super-Sons which just sucked the only good thing is Laura Baily as Lois Lane. Seriously can get her a Lois Lane animated series more of a serious action adventure show? While some like Batman: The Doom that Came to Gotham was surprisingly good and a few like Batman: Ninja and Catwoman: Hunted were great. Young Justice is a great show if they could ever keep it going. The Titans looked and sounded like trash in the trailers for it, and I've heard nothing but high praise for Doom Patrol.
Rebooting Indiana Jones was a challenge while I like parts of The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull it's just an average action movie.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 26, 2023 14:51:14 GMT
I am not speaking for anyone else now. This is just my opinion. I have an especial loathing for gratuitous abuse and intolerance about matters of opinion. I also have a great dislike of people reporting non-insults. Please stick to the topic at hand and refrain from assuming that because someone disagrees with your opinion, they are insulting you. TL:DNR, don't be a precious little princess. Back on topic, layoffs are a sad part of the gaming industry. I'm inclined to think it's a bad idea in this instance. But I lack enough information to be certain.
Some friendly advice: that despite what some people on the internet says: Context absolutely 100% does matter and words do hurt (and in the worst cases words can even kill). Small fights can turn into ugly wars.
Again just some friendly advice and/or a reminder.
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