FiendishlyInventive
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 26, 2023 14:52:58 GMT
I disagree with your opinions, but agree with your point. To use your examples.
Chris Chibnall's Broadchurch's superb, yet his Doctor Who run might make me think he could not write his way out of a paper bag.
I found Rian Johnson's writing and directing charming in Knives Out but found it insufferable in Star Wars.
Andor's the only Star Wars thing I have really genuinely loved since Chris Avellone's writing for KOTOR's sequel.
The truth's that even the best artists are capable of a range of quality, Ridley Scott's my favourite director ever, I'd hardly call him consistent in that respect, he can't identify a good script from a bad one to save his life.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 26, 2023 15:36:49 GMT
The truth's that even the best artists are capable of a range of quality, I agree with this. Obviously, if you have enjoyed someone's previous writing, there is a good chance you will like their next but it is never a given until you have actually read/watched it. There are occasions where someone will write an absolutely brilliant piece that is a one off they are never able to repeat. Others will just consistently produce good writing but perhaps not with that flash of inspiration that would elevate it to truly great heights. The disappointment for the reader/viewer is when they have enjoyed their previous work and naturally expect a repeat the next time round. The problem is that the hope is not unreasonable because they assume that if it wasn't, someone else on the production will have picked up on this but sometimes it would seem that the people responsible for green lighting projects just go with the established name and they also assume it will be good or are too afraid of looking stupid by saying it isn't. Hence a lot of disappointments of late.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Aug 26, 2023 22:58:53 GMT
This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA? I don't think it's Canada-wide. It's place by place. The fake BioWare in Montreal only existed because of those subsidies because Quebec was subsidizing games studios.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 27, 2023 2:22:31 GMT
This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA? I don't think it's Canada-wide. It's place by place. The fake BioWare in Montreal only existed because of those subsidies because Quebec was subsidizing games studios.That haven't stopped!
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 27, 2023 9:28:59 GMT
I don't think it's Canada-wide. It's place by place. The fake BioWare in Montreal only existed because of those subsidies because Quebec was subsidizing games studios. When fans treat non-Edmonton BioWare studios so shit, no wonder why BW Edmonton management was so full of themselves and demoralized even BW Austin, whom developed SWTOR, with their sense of superiority.
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 27, 2023 9:42:01 GMT
Ultimately talk is cheap, if Dreadwolf is excellent, that will do the talking and it may well have just got harder. Even if it is excellent from a story and companion PoV, that would be down to much of the team that has been made redundant, plus likely other individuals who are not so high profile on the technical side who have also been dropped. I was watching a You Tube commentary on the news by someone who apparently works for a small independent game developer and they think the timing is odd in relation to a game for which we don't even have a release date. If the game is still some way off, it does seem odd letting key members of the team go, but if their contribution is pretty much done, why is it so far off release? Also, if the studio maintains that going forward they will be concentrating on what they are known for, single player, narrative driven games, why ditch their best people in this respect? This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA? It's been stated that ME team staff have been moved to DA team staff to fill up gaps left by the lay offs.
As for possibility to shift their operations from Edmonton to Austin, that's very unlikely as BW Austin was downsized recently. That and it is unrealistic to get 100's of people to not just move countries but also across 2/3 of a continent.
Besides EA has it's headquarters in Redwood city since the 90s, which might as well be San Francisco. So they don't move around central operations into tax havens. Sure they'll build new studios when there's opportunity in such places, but core studios stay where they are regardless of expense.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 27, 2023 12:00:17 GMT
I'm definitely concerned, but I'm always more concerned about who is making a product rather than the laid off staff. I still remember the weirdo creative director who was all about "intersectional feminism" and that's going to make an awful game.
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Post by river82 on Aug 27, 2023 13:36:54 GMT
Even if it is excellent from a story and companion PoV, that would be down to much of the team that has been made redundant, plus likely other individuals who are not so high profile on the technical side who have also been dropped. I was watching a You Tube commentary on the news by someone who apparently works for a small independent game developer and they think the timing is odd in relation to a game for which we don't even have a release date. If the game is still some way off, it does seem odd letting key members of the team go, but if their contribution is pretty much done, why is it so far off release? Also, if the studio maintains that going forward they will be concentrating on what they are known for, single player, narrative driven games, why ditch their best people in this respect? This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA? It's been stated that ME team staff have been moved to DA team staff to fill up gaps left by the lay offs.
As for possibility to shift their operations from Edmonton to Austin, that's very unlikely as BW Austin was downsized recently. That and it is unrealistic to get 100's of people to not just move countries but also across 2/3 of a continent.
Besides EA has it's headquarters in Redwood city since the 90s, which might as well be San Francisco. So they don't move around central operations into tax havens. Sure they'll build new studios when there's opportunity in such places, but core studios stay where they are regardless of expense.
I doubt there even is ME staff and DA staff anymore. I feel like it's just going to be one studio working on one game at a time, like Bethesda works on one game at a time. Remember how they teased ES6 almost 6 years ago, and they haven't even really started it yet xD
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Post by Solas on Aug 27, 2023 15:35:29 GMT
Caitie @/ghildirthalenAs many of you know, last week BioWare laid off 50 devs suddenly. It's been shocking to everyone. While we can't do much, we wanted to try and do something for those affected. So, we started @crewcompanions Our goal: Help #hirethe50 and send kindness to those in need. On our Twitter/🔵☁️ [blueksky] accounts, we'll be boosting job offers towards those laid-off so they can be found by those in need, as well as pinning a thread of tweets by those looking for work. If you are in gamedev and have openings, please use #hirethe50 so we can find you! For fans, we have volunteers working tirelessly to build a small website for you to post kind words for those who are hurting at the moment. I (and the @crewcompanions account) will let you know the moment it's up and running! I can't speak for everyone involved, but many of us on the team have suddenly lost jobs in mass-layoffs like this one, and we don't want people to go through what we did. While companies will never care about you, people will. We care, and we want to help as best we can. Twitter link: twitter.com/CrewCompanionsBluesky: bsky.app/profile/crewcompanions.bsky.social
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 27, 2023 19:05:48 GMT
I doubt there even is ME staff and DA staff anymore. I feel like it's just going to be one studio working on one game at a time, like Bethesda works on one game at a time. Remember how they teased ES6 almost 6 years ago, and they haven't even really started it yet xD Well BioWare claims there is and nothing suggests they're lying about it.
Bethesda thing is just plain weird. It is clear all focus went into Starfield, but they ought to have known that so why announce ES6???
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 27, 2023 21:15:36 GMT
This commentator did bring up an interesting fact though, which I didn't know about, not being in the industry. It has to do with tax breaks that were formerly available in Canada for the gaming industry with respect to their workforce, but no longer, and the fact that these are available in Austin, Texas. You will recall that during one of their recruitment drives in the past, they were saying how it was no longer necessary to locate to Edmonton, or something like that. So, if this recent round of redundancies is mostly at Edmonton, could this be connected with this financial consideration and that they will be better off shifting their base of operations to Austin or with employees working remotely from the USA? I don't think it's Canada-wide. It's place by place. The fake BioWare in Montreal only existed because of those subsidies because Quebec was subsidizing games studios. Most of these subsidies are provincial not federal. Here in Alberta we had a change in government about 5 years ago and the subsidies went kapoof. The present government cares nothing about video games only mildly about tech and unless you are part of the oil industry you are getting crumbs at best.
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Post by heinomk3 on Aug 27, 2023 22:05:12 GMT
I'm definitely concerned, but I'm always more concerned about who is making a product rather than the laid off staff. I still remember the weirdo creative director who was all about "intersectional feminism" and that's going to make an awful game. That one?
Or was that someone else?
edit: disclaimer just incase - I'd like this question not be seen as an "attack on bioware staff" or whatever, I'm just trying to figure out for myself who the people working at Bioware are.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2023 8:51:48 GMT
edit: disclaimer just incase - I'd like this question not be seen as an "attack on bioware staff" or whatever, I'm just trying to figure out for myself who the people working at Bioware are.
Is their politics relevant though? When it comes to the current story, there is a separate post which was begun some time back but has now been updated, saying what different people had worked on. This also includes those on the writing team who are still in post. The current Game Director has been with Bioware for many years, working on games that people have praised, so clearly even if they are the person Duskwander was referring to, their politics have not impacted on the quality of their work. We know from David Gaider that whenever someone on the team wishes to introduce a narrative that is close to their heart, as was the case with Dorian and his personal story, they have to justify it with the rest of the team. Initially they objected on the grounds that it didn't fit with the setting because it had already been established that Tevinter didn't have a problem with homosexuality, which he then countered with "behind closed doors" and that Dorian's problem was that he wasn't willing to be discrete about it or take a wife he didn't desire just to maintain the family line. The rest of the team agreed that premise would be consistent with already established lore and so DG got the personal plot line he wanted. There has been a lot of insertion of modern politics into existing franchises in other media in recent years which is often incongruous to the setting besides impacting on the quality of the narrative but to date I don't believe Bioware has been guilty of this, although I haven't played more recent games like Andromeda or Anthem. On a related by opposite tangent, there has also been the laughable criticism of BG3 on the grounds of racism because of the attitudes of people in the setting to certain races, such as tiefling or drow, and that the player is obliged to relive the trauma they have experienced in real life. The obvious answer to this is don't play that race. It is not a new concept that Larian have introduced to mirror modern politics but has always been in the setting from the outset. Bioware also explores the issues of racism, prejudice and other social problems in Thedas, through the attitude of the dominant race, humans, towards others, the caste system among the dwarves, etc. When I choose to play an elf, I do so in the full knowledge I am going to experience prejudice but I know I will just have to deal with it. Ditto a Vashoth trying to make their way in the world. There is also an argument that it gives an insight into what life is like for those who suffer discrimination if you aren't part of the group that does in real life. It is not a matter of whether real world experiences are used in a fantasy setting but whether they are appropriate to that setting and how they fit into the narrative.
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Post by Guardian on Aug 28, 2023 12:19:58 GMT
Mike Gamble is the project director and executive producer of Mass Effect team. Sure after BW Montreal was merged into EA Motive, he was out of BioWare for a while, but then he returned back to BioWare after Star Wars Squadrons was completed. Oh wait...dang it....I meant Mac Walters....sorry....NOT Gamble....I don't know why I got that mixed up....sorry!
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 29, 2023 9:39:00 GMT
EA also gives their studio great amount of autonomy, BioWare especially so. autonomy? Maybe watch Darrahs DA2 video. And DADs change from Joplin to Morrison was also EAs decision. Dragon age never have autonomy. Maybe ME or anthem but not DA.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 29, 2023 10:35:26 GMT
Are you an US citizen? I am well aware well for americans this different because some (not all of them) have a complete different take regarding working culture. Corporate personhood is enteritis about legal theory in the US. This is what lets you sue a corporation.
For example, you can't sue corporation in Germany, only individuals. Good luck proving what individuals decided what in corporate structure.
I am from Germany and it work very well.
I am not a lawyer but we can sue if we think we are fired for the wrong reason. But the reason why we don't sue so often is: because we can't get fired so easily. That is why we have temporary contracts.
The most time it is kind of an agreement from both side.
The only way a corporation can get out so many employees is by close down an whole department. But the corporation has to abide by the rules there too.
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Post by Solas on Aug 29, 2023 19:45:12 GMT
50 people have just lost their jobs and livelihoods suddenly, please can we not go the 'but the real problem/bad news here is that BioWare are wOkE and making Dragon Age wOkE' route
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 29, 2023 19:55:12 GMT
EA also gives their studio great amount of autonomy, BioWare especially so. autonomy? Maybe watch Darrahs DA2 video. And DADs change from Joplin to Morrison was also EAs decision. Dragon age never have autonomy. Maybe ME or anthem but not DA. DA2 was an exception of EA pressuring DA2 short timeline of development, even then Darrah mentioned his team didn't exactly object to it.
As for Joplin to Morrison. DA team had to come in and rescue Anthem and when they returned to DAD, Joplin was so far behind that reboot of development was unavoidable. Also internally within BioWare Darrah's ideas were less taken seriously, so Joplin was doomed and Morrison got the greenlight.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 29, 2023 20:17:52 GMT
50 people have just lost their jobs and livelihoods suddenly, please can we not go the 'but the real problem/bad news here is that BioWare are wOkE and making Dragon Age wOkE' route Yeah. We will most definitely not be doing that.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Aug 30, 2023 1:46:50 GMT
I don't think it's Canada-wide. It's place by place. The fake BioWare in Montreal only existed because of those subsidies because Quebec was subsidizing games studios. When fans treat non-Edmonton BioWare studios so shit, no wonder why BW Edmonton management was so full of themselves and demoralized even BW Austin, whom developed SWTOR, with their sense of superiority. No, BW Austin was a legitimate spinoff studio. Montreal was a cash-in on subsidies to get a support/tech studio on the Canadian taxpayers' dime. It emerged at a time when EA was rebranding random unrelated studios "BioWare". In fact an acquaintance of mine briefly became a "BioWare employee" for that reason, because he worked at Mythic Studios which EA briefly made into BioWare DC lol. Fun bonus detail: BioWare DC went back to being Mythic Studios, before EA eventually shut it down, which led the staff to move to Mythic's spinoff studio, Broadsword. Broadsword is now handling SW:TOR.
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Post by Sandetiger on Aug 30, 2023 3:23:58 GMT
50 people have just lost their jobs and livelihoods suddenly, please can we not go the 'but the real problem/bad news here is that BioWare are wOkE and making Dragon Age wOkE' route I was gonna say, stay classy BioWare fans /s Thanks for saying something.
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Post by apollexander on Aug 30, 2023 5:45:21 GMT
I wonder if Daniel Kading still there.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 30, 2023 6:38:44 GMT
autonomy? Maybe watch Darrahs DA2 video. And DADs change from Joplin to Morrison was also EAs decision. Dragon age never have autonomy. Maybe ME or anthem but not DA. DA2 was an exception of EA pressuring DA2 short timeline of development, even then Darrah mentioned his team didn't exactly object to it.
As for Joplin to Morrison. DA team had to come in and rescue Anthem and when they returned to DAD, Joplin was so far behind that reboot of development was unavoidable. Also internally within BioWare Darrah's ideas were less taken seriously, so Joplin was doomed and Morrison got the greenlight.
1. Darrah said they have no choice. They do DA2 or they would have extrem consequences. Because EA wanted something from Bioware as soon as possible. To fill a release gap. The idea they had in mind for the second DA game was a variant of DAI.
2. Why unavoidable? What i have heard is that EA doesn't give green light because they doesn't have had a MP in the idea. They wanted the MP maybe later but EA doesn't alow it. So they have to start from the beginning again.
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Croatsky
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 30, 2023 11:32:52 GMT
When fans treat non-Edmonton BioWare studios so shit, no wonder why BW Edmonton management was so full of themselves and demoralized even BW Austin, whom developed SWTOR, with their sense of superiority. No, BW Austin was a legitimate spinoff studio. Montreal was a cash-in on subsidies to get a support/tech studio on the Canadian taxpayers' dime. It emerged at a time when EA was rebranding random unrelated studios "BioWare". In fact an acquaintance of mine briefly became a "BioWare employee" for that reason, because he worked at Mythic Studios which EA briefly made into BioWare DC lol. Fun bonus detail: BioWare DC went back to being Mythic Studios, before EA eventually shut it down, which led the staff to move to Mythic's spinoff studio, Broadsword. Broadsword is now handling SW:TOR. Ah yes, mere cash-in studio that was designed to take over major original IP so BioWare Edmonton can work on a new IP.
Jesus Christ your attitude reeks.
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Post by Polka Dot on Aug 30, 2023 12:59:32 GMT
autonomy? Maybe watch Darrahs DA2 video. And DADs change from Joplin to Morrison was also EAs decision. Dragon age never have autonomy. Maybe ME or anthem but not DA. DA2 was an exception of EA pressuring DA2 short timeline of development, even then Darrah mentioned his team didn't exactly object to it. As for Joplin to Morrison. DA team had to come in and rescue Anthem and when they returned to DAD, Joplin was so far behind that reboot of development was unavoidable. Also internally within BioWare Darrah's ideas were less taken seriously, so Joplin was doomed and Morrison got the greenlight.
That's not how I remember it. What I remember is that Laidlaw had embraced the lessons of the past and had things moving along nicely for DA4, the DA core team had a good plan in place and were meeting milestones and making great progress. It was still in pre-prod when Anthem rescue became an all hands on deck affair. Then EA told them that instead of the traditional SP game with MP components, it had to be something else; this new games-as-a-service paradigm they wanted to bring forth, which meant that everything they'd done was to be scrapped and rebooted and built from scratch using "live service" elements. That's when Laidlaw left. Of course, since then they decided they were just kidding about the games-as-a-service nonsense, and I guess they aren't required to use Frostbite anymore either. I've lost track of how many times this game has been rebooted - after a decade, it's not even on my radar anymore.
Don't forget Aaron Flynn founding Inflexion which is doing the very exciting Nightingale game set for release early next year David Gaider co-founded Summerfall Studios.
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