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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2016 15:22:58 GMT
Spirits were different back before the Veil. The simple idea of a spirit identifying with an emotion or quality didn't really apply then. Spirits were everywhere, could pass freely to and from the Fade and could interact with people if they wished. The elves were likely spirits that spent more time in the material world than in the Fade so gradually became more complex and material, acquiring emotions of their own. When they undertook some sort of creative activity, other spirits would associate themselves with it. The Brecillin Forest was planted by the ancient elvhen. When they did this it had its own spirit that became a part of it. The is the spirit that Zathrian called forth and bound to the body of a wolf. The Lady of the Forest confirmed that she did not come from the Fade but from the trees, the rock and the soil. She also says that it was Zathrian who was her Maker, who gave her form and consciousness where none existed.
There is a theory about Solas that he was a spirit called forth by Mythal. It could be that he was a nature spirit like the Lady or from the Fade and Mythal was the one who gave him form. Could his form literally be the same as that of the Lady, either humanoid or wolf? If Cole's words are about Solas, he says that he did not want to command but impart wisdom. When asked if she leads the werewolves, the Lady says: "I offer them guidance, but I do not command them". When in her alternative savage guise of the wolf she does appear to lead. Was this the problem with the Evanuris, their serene nature made them want to create, guide and teach (as the Dalish stories recall) but later the war that started them on the road to godhood brought out the savage side of their nature, where they rule, command and destroy?
Is the creation story that the Dalish tell symbolic of the origins of the Evanuris? Were they powerful nature spirits who arose when the Fade (Sun/sky) touched the earth (material world)? The original seven were Elgar'nan: Light; Mythal: Water; Andruil: Earth; Sylaise: Fire; Dirthamen/Falon'Din: Air (one for the material/one for the Fade) and June, who is said to have created himself, so possibly the embodiment of the creative spirit. As with the Lady there were two sides to their being; just as with nature they could be both serene and savage. The Lady also says of Swiftrunner that "I soothed his rage and his humanity emerged." Was this what Mythal did when she first soothed Elgar'nan?
When the Veil was raised those spirits whose nature was to freely interact with people and offer guidance could no longer do so. This created frustration and the "envy" that the Chant claims they felt in looking across the Veil at the world of men. Really it was just the spirits being twisted because they could no longer fulfil their purpose. They sought other ways of contacting people, being attracted by emotions. The strongest of these were from people who were ambitious for power and so what had once been spirits of wisdom, became twisted into pride demons, what had once been spirits of inspiration and purpose, became spirits of desire.
If this is the case, then the spirits were altered along with the rest of reality when the Veil came into being. Not all spirits desired contact though or didn't actively seek people out but waited to be found. What might the implication be for these spirits if the Veil was removed? Cole says that when the anchor was acting up, spirits were fleeing from the source in case there was another breach or rifts that they would be sucked through. May be the spirits would be harmed just as much as the people on the Thedas side.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 15:46:16 GMT
In the library in Trespasser we learned that spirits were also teachers and taught the elves about the "unchanging world" and in JOH they helped the Avaar too. I think spirits were like guides (Ameridan had one also) and whatever they represented is what they taught.
I do think Solas was a spirit of Wisdom and Mythal made him take on the forum of the Solas we see now. Sort of how Compassion unknowingly became Cole but did not possess any body. He just manifested into the real Cole from memory.
Cole says the spirits fear the Veil tearing again but if Solas removes it completely I assume they would lose control and turn into demons if they aren't prepared. I can't see them being just fine with it and not affected.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 18:39:38 GMT
Something interesting to add is that there is a verse in the Chant of Light ( Canticle of Erudition) that might hint that if the Evanuris were indeed spirits first, that they took a corporeal body because they had desires/wants/will. And as has been eluded to in banters and some dialogue, taking/having a body and becoming more 'real' has side effects. By deciding to give themselves a physical form, the Evanuris may have begun the downward spiral to greed and corruption because now they are experiencing new emotions/desires that a spiritual form never had before; opening the door to become 'demons' or power-hungry douches if you will .
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 4, 2016 18:53:44 GMT
The only problem I have with elves once being spirits is Solas's attitude towards Cole becoming human or "real". He thinks it's nonsense. Why would he think that if that were his own origin? Or the origin of other elves?
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Post by Ispan on Aug 4, 2016 19:08:27 GMT
Solas: How do you feel, Cole, now that you dealt with the Templar? Cole: I don't know. He hurt me... hurt the real Cole. I'm angry at him. Cole: I can't let that go. I have to become more, let it make me real. Solas: You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it. Cole: When did you see it before? Solas: I did not say that I had. Cole: No, you didn't. It's harder to hear, sometimes. Sorry. Solas: Good luck, Cole. You have taken a difficult road. Yeah it's kind of murky there
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Post by Sah291 on Aug 4, 2016 19:27:57 GMT
The only problem I have with elves once being spirits is Solas's attitude towards Cole becoming human or "real". He thinks it's nonsense. Why would he think that if that were his own origin? Or the origin of other elves? Might be he's bitter about it, because it's a difficult path for Cole to travel down? He's sort of paternal around Cole and always seems to want to protect him. He also thinks it's nonsense that a spirit has to be human (have a physical body) to be a person. So that's his point of view. He does tell Cole that he isn't a spirit like him. But that doesn't rule out that he never was once.
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Post by Reznore on Aug 4, 2016 21:35:56 GMT
Something interesting to add is that there is a verse in the Chant of Light ( Canticle of Erudition) that might hint that if the Evanuris were indeed spirits first, that they took a corporeal body because they had desires/wants/will. And as has been eluded to in banters and some dialogue, taking/having a body and becoming more 'real' has side effects. By deciding to give themselves a physical form, the Evanuris may have begun the downward spiral to greed and corruption because now they are experiencing new emotions/desires that a spiritual form never had before; opening the door to become 'demons' or power-hungry douches if you will . I also think it's highly possible the elves were spirits in origin. I wonder would they be able to reproduce the normal way ?(I assume they did) If so what does it mean for ancient elven society if you have people that can be born , baby and all that... And spirits that can turn into elves. Would they make a difference between the two?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 22:19:58 GMT
Personally I like the theories that some Elves were originally Spirits and some were born the old fashion way. Something about 'Elves used to be Spirits' period just seems too constricting. As the Evanuris were the 'first of the people', I can jump on board the Elves can come from Spirits. Picking apart dialogues and Codex's one can make the argument that this may have given the Evanuris a leg up from the rest of the populace and were so powerful in the first place (Plus once you have people worshiping you as a God in a world that is powered by will, probably going to supercharge you even more).
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 4, 2016 23:26:41 GMT
The only problem I have with elves once being spirits is Solas's attitude towards Cole becoming human or "real". He thinks it's nonsense. Why would he think that if that were his own origin? Or the origin of other elves? Might be he's bitter about it, because it's a difficult path for Cole to travel down? He's sort of paternal around Cole and always seems to want to protect him. He also thinks it's nonsense that a spirit has to be human (have a physical body) to be a person. So that's his point of view. He does tell Cole that he isn't a spirit like him. But that doesn't rule out that he never was once. Yeah but when he talks to Varric about the issue he says the situation can't be resolved like a fairy tale (the human path). If Solas started out as a spirit, he'd for sure be like Cole in spirit form. He's not, he's like a human. As much as all elves are like humans. So, I'm not completely sold on the spirit to elf thing as an origin for all of them. But I could be sold later on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 23:32:50 GMT
The only problem I have with elves once being spirits is Solas's attitude towards Cole becoming human or "real". He thinks it's nonsense. Why would he think that if that were his own origin? Or the origin of other elves? Based on Cole's words in Trespasser, he was forced into being Mythal's slave and given a body he did not want. He wanted to share wisdom and not fight and burned her off his face leaving a scar. Most likely it means Solas removed her slave markings and left that scar was see on his forehead. He perfected how to remove them though and even removes Lavellen's if romanced. If you tell him to drink from Mythal's well he is quick to tell you to not ask him again. Drinking from it makes you bound to her. I think he his truly bitter and was afraid Cole was being forced into a shape he didn't want by the Inquisitor and by making him human, the Inquisitor could shape him to what he/she wanted. Similar to Mythal forcing him to have a body. That's my take on it for the moment.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 4, 2016 23:40:47 GMT
The only problem I have with elves once being spirits is Solas's attitude towards Cole becoming human or "real". He thinks it's nonsense. Why would he think that if that were his own origin? Or the origin of other elves? Based on Cole's words in Trespasser, he was forced into being Mythal's slave and given a body he did not want. He wanted to share wisdom and not fight and burned her off his face leaving a scar. Most likely it means Solas removed her slave markings and left that scar was see on his forehead. He perfected how to remove them though and even removes Lavellen's if romanced. If you tell him to drink from Mythal's well he is quick to tell you to not ask him again. Drinking from it makes you bound to her. I think he his truly bitter and was afraid Cole was being forced into a shape he didn't want by the Inquisitor and by making him human, the Inquisitor could shape him to what he/she wanted. Similar to Mythal forcing him to have a body. That's my take on it for the moment. What did he say in Trespasser that conveyed all that? Not really challenging you, just curious.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 23:44:53 GMT
Based on Cole's words in Trespasser, he was forced into being Mythal's slave and given a body he did not want. He wanted to share wisdom and not fight and burned her off his face leaving a scar. Most likely it means Solas removed her slave markings and left that scar was see on his forehead. He perfected how to remove them though and even removes Lavellen's if romanced. If you tell him to drink from Mythal's well he is quick to tell you to not ask him again. Drinking from it makes you bound to her. I think he his truly bitter and was afraid Cole was being forced into a shape he didn't want by the Inquisitor and by making him human, the Inquisitor could shape him to what he/she wanted. Similar to Mythal forcing him to have a body. That's my take on it for the moment. What did he say in Trespasser that conveyed all that? Not really challenging you, just curious. From the Wiki I copy and pasted this (these are what most assume are relating to Solas): "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." "Bare-faced but free, frolicking fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders." "The guardian spirits stayed. Not bound but biding. Because he asked. He knows how to speak so spirits listen." "His friend had to die. Because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws." "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap."
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 4, 2016 23:49:49 GMT
What did he say in Trespasser that conveyed all that? Not really challenging you, just curious. From the Wiki I copy and pasted this (these are what most assume are relating to Solas): "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." "Bare-faced but free, frolicking fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders." "The guardian spirits stayed. Not bound but biding. Because he asked. He knows how to speak so spirits listen." "His friend had to die. Because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws." "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 23:54:17 GMT
From the Wiki I copy and pasted this (these are what most assume are relating to Solas): "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." "Bare-faced but free, frolicking fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders." "The guardian spirits stayed. Not bound but biding. Because he asked. He knows how to speak so spirits listen." "His friend had to die. Because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws." "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap." What's ironic is the name Solas means Pride and a spirit of Wisdom came be corrupted into a Pride Demon lol
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 4, 2016 23:59:38 GMT
What's ironic is the name Solas means Pride and a spirit of Wisdom came be corrupted into a Pride Demon lol These are interesting possibilities, but he has a strong elven identity... even identifying with "the first" of the elven. So I'm torn on how I feel about it, since I don't see Mythal imparting such a strong elven imprint on him if he were to be a servant. But this is good food for thought.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 0:04:19 GMT
What's ironic is the name Solas means Pride and a spirit of Wisdom came be corrupted into a Pride Demon lol These are interesting possibilities, but he has a strong elven identity... even identifying with "the first" of the elven. So I'm torn on how I feel about it, since I don't see Mythal imparting such a strong elven imprint on him if he were to be a servant. But this is good food for thought. I never would have thought of Solas as anything but an ancient elf myself until Cole shocked me like that! It's also very possibly Mythal was a dragon. They say she was more than what everyone thought and her statue has Dragon Wings and a crown like Andraste's. I'm wondering how much elf was in all of the Evanuris and since spirits were the elves teachers, what if the Evanuris were powerful spirits that took on the form of elves? It's all one big mess of questions util DA4 but it's fun to see where they might be headed and how close we come to the truth.
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Post by Ispan on Aug 5, 2016 6:11:59 GMT
What did he say in Trespasser that conveyed all that? Not really challenging you, just curious. From the Wiki I copy and pasted this (these are what most assume are relating to Solas): "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." "Bare-faced but free, frolicking fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders." "The guardian spirits stayed. Not bound but biding. Because he asked. He knows how to speak so spirits listen." "His friend had to die. Because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws." "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap." I've thought a ton about dragons/spirits/elves' connections but sadly can't articulate any of those thoughts well, so to keep it simple... you make me think of this text from the Temple of Mythal. I always wondered if it was about Solas and thought it could help explain how he became a demi-god, especially one who had friends and enemies among the 'gods' and could be seen as a spy or a rebel. Sorry if that makes no sense, at some point I'd spent so much time theorizing I think my recollection of what is canon/supported by hard 'facts' got a bit fuzzy
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2016 10:17:10 GMT
Some thing that has always puzzled me is that the other gods are still honoured in Mythal's Temple if they were responsible for her death. However, I suppose it is possible that Abelas and the other priests did not know exactly who was responsible, just that they knew it couldn't have been Fen'Harel.
I was thinking again about the positioning of the gods in the Temple and wonder if it was somehow meant to symbolise their relationship to the events that led to her death. Fen'Harel is in the outer courtyard on guard, fulfilling his duty to Mythal in some way that means he is not there at her side. Andruil, Falon'Din and June are placed in the outer sanctum. Could this be because they were the ones suspected of being the chief culprits and so the priests placed them there? We know that Andruil and Falon'Din had serious run-ins with Mythal that would have made them resentful of her role of peace keeper.
There is also a codex on Andruil that speaks of her creating a powerful weapon. Could this have been to use against Mythal? Her followers are fearful that they will become her sacrifice when it is thrown. They speak of "blood and force". Could she have used some blood magic ritual that bound their magic to her weapon to make it more powerful and when it hits its target, their lives will be forfeit? Falon'Din is of course associated with death and may have offered his servants to fuel the weapon as well. June is said to be a mystery (according to the human scholar quoted but how would they know?). The Dalish legends associate him with crafting, particularly with crafting weapons, so may be that is how he was involved.
The other gods are still allowed within the inner sanctum. May be the priests did not assign them any direct guilt. However, you have Ghilan'nain, who was close to Andruil, and Dirthamen, who is the twin soul of Falon'Din and associated with secrets. May be it was their job to distract Mythal's attention and conceal what they other gods were up to. That just leaves Sylaise and Elgar'nan. Sylaise is shown in the Library as giving a gift to June in thanks for him performing a favour for her. May be she persuaded him to forge the weapon that Andruil used. As for Elgar'nan, if you check my posting on the meaning of the mosaics, I think it is possible that he was the ultimate betrayer, leading Mythal into a situation where she would be vulnerable to attack. If the mosaic called the Archdemon is really about the death of Mythal, it shows four people seemingly not directly involved (Ghilan'nain, Dirthamen, Sylaise and June), two directly attacking the dragon (Andruil and Falon'Din striking Mythal, quite possibly in dragon form) but the dragon staring at another figure standing off to the side as though not culpable but the dragon knows is the real betrayer (Elgar'nan).
Flemeth definitely says that Mythal was betrayed and many people feel she is saying that it was in the same way as she was, by her husband. Fen'Harel's unfinished picture in Skyhold also shows the wolf discovering the dragon, who had been stabbed in the back. Mythal could definitely shapeshift. Her battle with Andruil has her transforming into a great serpent. However, it could also be that like Corypheus she had split her soul with a dragon and the Evanuris killed this in order to allow her to be slain, which is how her priests knew what we needed to do to defeat Corypheus.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 5, 2016 10:35:45 GMT
Flemeth definitely says that Mythal was betrayed and many people feel she is saying that it was in the same way as she was, by her husband. Fen'Harel's unfinished picture in Skyhold also shows the wolf discovering the dragon, who had been stabbed in the back. Mythal could definitely shapeshift. Her battle with Andruil has her transforming into a great serpent. However, it could also be that like Corypheus she had split her soul with a dragon and the Evanuris killed this in order to allow her to be slain, which is how her priests knew what we needed to do to defeat Corypheus. Good one. I think Mythal did a lot more splits than one otherwise she wouldn't have survived the murder. Unless she didn't but a spirit (something like Divine Justinia in the Fade) took her aspect and became the real thing.
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Post by Reznore on Aug 5, 2016 10:47:02 GMT
I've thought a ton about dragons/spirits/elves' connections but sadly can't articulate any of those thoughts well, so to keep it simple... you make me think of this text from the Temple of Mythal. I always wondered if it was about Solas and thought it could help explain how he became a demi-god, especially one who had friends and enemies among the 'gods' and could be seen as a spy or a rebel. Sorry if that makes no sense, at some point I'd spent so much time theorizing I think my recollection of what is canon/supported by hard 'facts' got a bit fuzzy I had the same theory as well. Thing is the "Sinner" was a follower of Dirthamen , I think it's the God of mysteries and secret (so might work with Solas) And Ghilan'nain basically tricked the guy into doing something stupid. Now there's several interesting thing. Dirthamen is close to Falon'Din.Falon'din got his backside handed to him by Mythal. And Ghilan'nain is close to Andruil.Mythal and Andruil also had a fight. To keep on the strange things , Mythal Goddess of Justice refuse to judge and send the Hound called Elgar'nan to deal with it. We know Mythal was just , and the guy was tricked by one of member of her pantheon. I believe some people were trying to cause some unrest and put Mythal in a very bad position.If she gives in to the guy , people might think it's a OK to turn into dragons , it threaten the authority and status of the Gods. But if Mythal punish the guy , she is being unfair , and she is loved because she is "good" to the People.So it also puts her in an awkward position. It is possible Mythal gave Solas a demi God status because her pantheon was trying to remove her from power and make her look bad to the elven people. If she did this, she'd gained a ally among her peers and would calm the mobs down.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2016 11:30:53 GMT
Another thing I wonder about is that spirit that rises from the Well at the approach of Corypheus. Presumably that is one of the pieces of Mythal. This harks back to my idea that Mythal was originally a water spirit, since she was born of the sea according to Dalish legend, but it does fit when you consider that her priests store their memories in a Well and the spirit that rises up and takes on the form of a woman is in fact water.
That is one of my favourite scenes in the whole game. It truly still gets my spine tingling even after all this time. I remember the first time I saw it, I thought awesome. The spirit of Mythal was confronting Corypheus and prevents his passage until she is sure everyone is safe (Mythal in her role of protector), then dissolves into the eluvian and closes/shatters it. It is also noticeable how the Inquisitor starts to glow (occasionally it has been someone else in other peoples' play throughs but it is always the Inquisitor in mine), which I feel is the anchor responding to the presence of Mythal.
I think that spirit then returned to Flemeth through the eluvian network, alerting her to the fact that the Well had been drained and likely the identity of the person who used it as well. I think it was that spirit that Flemeth sent through the eluvian just before her confrontation with Solas. We know that Flemeth/Mythal is capable of breaking her soul into multiple pieces but I think that may be the core one because of the fact that it does take the form of water.
I also wonder if it is significant that in one of the oldest parts of the Chant Andraste refers to the Maker as the Wellspring of All?
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Post by diovis on Aug 15, 2016 20:35:03 GMT
(I'm late to this so yikes! I'm hoping I don't repeat too much/look like a loser but...) On the topic of spirits becoming elves and "what about elves born from elves?": this freaking codex entry that made me scream says: I could be reading too much into this whole "brethren" thing, but there are a couple things I got from this. Number one, back when the Fade and the physical world weren't separated, it was possible to exist in one state but not the other. Solas calls the Fade "a state of nature," so I'm assuming that just because the Fade exists doesn't mean everything is connected to it. Cue the spirits floating around who really don't care about The Waking™ and hang around in The Dreaming™, thus never actually having something physical tied to them/tying them. So there's this, which mentions " a pair playing, colliding in the air, bodies formed for kissing, stroking lines of heat as molten as the sun." Alright, so the spirits were sorta freaky? Or were they spirits at all? If we go by what Solas says about spirits, as well as the nature of spirits in general that we collect from in-game spirit meeting, they don't form romantic connections. AKA why Cole just can't find love if he becomes more spirit. So who are these young people, frolicking in the air? They're literally flying. Midair. To smooch. And it sounds like they purposely... changed their forms (bodies formed, molten lines, etc.)? Are they ELVES? We know Vir Dirthara, my codex goldmine, was made of the Waking and the Dreaming. Kinda wild, honestly, and also mentions why it started splitting apart when the Veil fell. The Waking has its own rules, we know, and the Elvhen had to actually sit down and huh? about why they couldn't bend the laws of the universe with it (from the first link, a spirit explains to a couple elves: " The unchanging world is stubborn: the pull of the earth fiercely resists making fire run like water or stone rise like mist. The unchanging world rings with its own harmony.") Why? Because in the Fade, you can manipulate everything. Hell yes, liquefy that fire! Turn that heat and light into something solid! The World IS Your Oyster If Your World Is The Fade™, etc. But the Fade also allows you do to wacky things like float around in the real world. Have rivers running in midair, walk on mist as if it's physical, whatever. Which ties in with that "Vir Dirthara built of both and thus has all this cool stuff that the normal world couldn't have". It's now also stuck in a state of weird middle existence in The Crossroads, maybe because it was built there? Since The Crossroads is a place with its own rules of space and time? ANYWAYS: I'm thinking that the relationship between the Fade and the physical world was a lot more complicated than what Solas said, about it just kinda... being around. In the air. So spirits could roam. Namely, that things can exist in only one (the Fade) or both, thus having properties of only one (the Fade) or both. Back to the brethren thing: just like with Cole changing over time, I'm thinking that, hell yeah, some spirits took on forms that anchored/tied them to the Waking, and became elves who could have kids and frolic around all they wanted. But the important point of that codex entry is that a spirit is talking to the Elvhen, yet referencing other spirits as " our brethren". So yeah, there's a distinction between spirits who float into the Waking and ones that stay in the Dreaming. But the main thing is that the spirits considers the Elvhen to be the same as them, just of a different place. SO the end of my conspiracy theory and the overall point: The Elves were of both the Waking and the Dreaming. Mortality is a Waking construct, and immortality is a Dreaming construct, tied into how spirits never die of simply age (thus no Dreaming meant no immortality). The original post for this mentioned the spirit of the Brecilian Forest not being born from the Fade, which means it's possible for life to be conceived without a pure spirit being involved. AKA how some elves could be born from Elvhen parents, and not just brought into existence in the Waking. But they would still have a connection to the Fade, because they essentially were brought to exist in a world that the Fade was already a part of.
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Post by patches on Aug 15, 2016 21:57:46 GMT
In the Silent Grove comic we learn that before the elves there were the dragons. I think it's very possible that Mythal, and maybe Elgar'nan too as they are known as the All Father and All Mother, are dragons from that earlier time and they created the first generation of elves from spirits. Perhaps after the death of their own kind.
The other gods, apart from Fen'Harel and Ghilan'nain who were born not created later, are the most powerful of their children.
Being born of the Fade would explain a lot about elves, even why there's no such thing as a half elf.
Fen'Harel is known to be a friend of the Forbidden Ones who cast off their forms or were stripped of their forms (codexes vary) possibly because he joined them in rejecting the physical world but Mythal convinced him to come back.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 16, 2016 21:26:09 GMT
Another interesting possibility, do you suppose raising the Veil changed the nature of dragons? They are clearly intelligent creatures and can even have a reasonably good understanding with dragon cults. Yavana was able to communicate sufficiently that she was able to call down dragons on invading Qunari. However, what if prior to the Veil they were even more intelligent and capable of shapeshifting? May be we do have it the wrong way round and the Evanuris were dragons who could shapeshift into humanoid form rather than the opposite.
Although, then again, Solas does say that the Evanuris were the first of his People and it would seem that among the Elvhen the form of the dragon was reserved for the divine (the most senior ones at least). It is likely Solas could formerly transform into a wolf because of being shown so often in that form and Dirthamen may have been able to shapeshift to a bear, since that animal is considered sacred to him. Falon-Din may well have been able to take the form of an owl.
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Post by Reznore on Aug 17, 2016 10:43:15 GMT
I think something happened to dragons.Now I don't know if it's related to the veil. The Great dragons (not those we see in game , bigger ones) are now asleep.And if you believe Yavana you can't simply wake them up with a cup of coffee.(cup of warm blood maybe...) They are a bit like the Titans , forgotten massive beings who are now in slumber and only can be waken up under special circumstance. It's very hard to know the difference between true ancient great dragons and the Evanuris shapeshifting. Ancient dwarven lore is interesting about this very topic.YOu find text talking about the dwarves being scared of dragons (now scratch your head because dwarves were mostly chilling in the deep roads.Sure dragons sometimes nest in underground caves, but if they were a problem , just make your bloody Deep Road a bit smaller.In DAO there's also a dragon bound to the stone in the throne room...a small one.) Anyway so you'd think omg dwarves were really scared of dragons dragons. But then in Trespasser there's a text that says dwarves are terrified of Elgar'nan fire... So this is confusing. There's also the ouroboros symbol you can sometimes see in game and in a comic. The term ouroboros is derived from two words in ancient Greek language. The first word is “oura” which means “the tail” while the second word being “boros” which means “eating”. Combined, these two words give the meaning “he /it that eats his/its tail” or “tail eater”. A serpent eating its own tail has been depicted in different versions of the infinity symbol throughout the history.
There are a few interpretations of the meaning behind the ouroboros symbol. One of them suggests that the serpent in the symbol represents the cycle of life and death that the Universe maintains. The snake eating its own tail simply represents the recreation of life through death by the Universe. It is interpreted as some kind of a rebirth of the dead reaching an immortality of sorts. This is why it is considered that the infinity symbol might have been derived from the original symbol of ouroboros. link
It's interesting because in DA2 Flemeth says "Without an end , there can be no peace."
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