Horizon Zero Dawn Forbidden West and DLC SPOILERS Thread

Now that I've completed that quest, I have to say the plot is getting ridiculous. Possibly jump the shark moment for me there...

As much as I like the writing of everything else, that main story is kinda bad. And it just keeps getting worse. I thought the premise of what Aloy needs to do to save the world was fine, but the details of who's behind everything is soooo bad. Cringe. Is that really the best plot they could come up with??

I'm also annoyed that Guerilla is apparently right there perpetuating the evil white guy trope of recent years. Really disappointing. Almost every white leader is evil or an asshat. All the black characters are cool dudes (except for Sylens I guess).

It's overall an awesome game but the plot I cannot take seriously. It's like a parody actually.
While the first game's plot was also convoluted nonsense and the premise of a machine apocalypse very uncreative, the narrative drew me in regardless. It's the same here again, except that the plot is (much?) worse.

I'll reserve final judgement, obviously. I've done everything in San Francisco now, I believe.
I wonder if the next mission will already be gearing up for the endgame or if there's a whole lot more complications ahead.

I got my first legendary outfit: Oseram Artificer. Felt like these salvage contracts would never conclude, lol. Made me smile though in the end. I skipped melee outfits before but since this is my best gear now I'm wearing it. And I actually think it looks really good on Aloy. Oseram Forester I have on level 4 which is almost as good as the base legendary outfit. I like the look of that one as well. Kinda dig the Oseram Striker as well. Bought it, upgraded to 2 but never worn it, lol.
My favorite outfit is the Tenakth Skirmisher. Level 3 by now. I haven't bought a purple Carja outfit yet because gosh are they all ugly. Carja fashion is just not my thing, except for the Sun King's ridiculous outfit. Kind like that one. I bought the Carja Blazon right away because the counterpart was already my favorite outfit in HZD. Literally the only sexy Carja outfit.
I do like the Utaru outfits for the most part and I have several but the stats kinda suck? So I never wear them. Too many outfits in the game if you ask me. Same with weapons. Way too many. I have no idea which ones I should upgrade.

I've only now got the achievement for buying all weapon types because I've been ignoring the ropecaster. Never much used it in the previous game either. Just got one as a reward, haha.

But man, ever since I'm high level and most enemies are apex versions, fights have been rather tough again. I don't know how to get the insane damage output described above by Element Zero. The best weak point damage with a purple weapons I ever got was maybe 300. My damage output usually ranges between 10 (!) and 150. Usually on the lower end. Enemies only go down fast with traps. But not the big ones. The Slaughterspine is a nightmare. Is it the toughest enemy in the game? First time I managed to kill it somehow. Second time I used countless traps and it wasn't even at half HP afterwards. It was insane. I shot off its canons. Tried to use them against it. Barely a scratch... Shortly after I died.
I know I'm a tactical idiot but seriously, how is my damage output so low on Normal??

Two unknowns in my machine catalogue left.

Gonna had back to base now, chat with everyone and then I'll do a companion quest.

Now that everyone has reached the late stage of the game, I'm going to put something in spoiler block because I just gotta say it.

If you haven't played at least as far as Kappa Neko, do yourself a favor and don't open the spoiler. My unimportant opinions are not worth ruining the game for yourself.



I got to play a couple of more hours today. I completed The Daunt as much as possible, and saved just after the Embassy.

Playing on Normal has been fun. I'm an unstoppable juggernaut of death! I'm already one-shotting machines in the eyes while slow-motion sliding under them. It's so fun to be doing that stuff at low-level.

I didn't take a single point of damage during the Embassy. The Champion was nearly naked when he died because I'd detonated two Resonator Blasts on him in quick succession. While he was reeling from the second, I shot three quick arrows into his forehead.

Knowing how to use all the new toys makes a huge difference.


Kappa Neko, I specifically set out to try to achieve that crazy damage, though I was surprised at just how good it was. I am pretty good at identifying and using avenues of optimization in games. Still, I'm most often doing between 70 and 400 points of damage.

I had a lot of tools at my disposal for that one-shot kill. I had all the baseline skills and a fully evolved Stealth Valor Surge. I had a Very Rare Armor. I used the Legendary Sharpshot Bow, Forgefall, which is the most damaging weapon on the game.

The trick was that I layered a few things onto that single attack.
1) Forgefall Bow with three +25% long-range damage coils.
2) Tenakth Recon Armor that has a +2 Mounted Archer perk. Combined with Aloy's Mounted Archer skills, it gave a big bonus to damage.
3) Stealth Valor Surge gives a 200% increase to stealth damage, if I recall correctly.
4) You must hit a weak point to get the weak point mutiplier. I did so versus the Scorcher and missed versus the Slitherfang. That was the difference between a one-shot kill and a three-shot kill. (I did hit weak points on the second and third arrows from Death-Seeker's Shadow.)

So, this isn't something that's always going to be doable. You need stealth, Valor, a mount, and the right gear. Still, it's not too hard to have those things when you're choosing to go after a machine, rather than being surprised by one.


For Slaughterspines, it's important to saturate them with Purgewater attacks ASAP. Purgewater is a weakness for them, I believe. It also removes any machine's elemental attacks for as long as they're saturated.

I hate that there's no awesome bow with Purgewater. I hope DLC corrects that. I keep a Rare/Blue bow in my rotation, along with a Very Rare Blast Sling, for the rare Purgewater-weak machine.

If you can get any machine stunned, whether it's Purgewater/Fire/Acid/etc... that does it, you can easily remove their weaponry while they're down. Slaughterspines aren't bad when they can't cover a football field in plasma. They seem to do higher damage but have less resilience than the Thunderjaw.

I recall swimming past that Slaughterspine in SF and thinking, "Spinosaurus was a swimmer. I sure hope this big guy can't swim." I was very careful to stay underwater until I had solid cover. 🤞

The enemies that gave me the most trouble were the Sunwings. They're not aggressive, but sometimes you just need to fight them. I always failed to saturate them before they took flight or raised their shields. (Crappy blue bow.) Or, maybe I saturate one, but it's two buddies instantly take flight and start dive-bombing and throwing plasma. I spent more berries fighting those guys than anything else. They're tough birds. 😄

I've barely used traps to this point. I want to use them, and I will, at some point. I was put off initially by the harsh limit of two and just never invested much thought into it. I saw a guy using the Legendary Carja Outfit to just drop traps on everything, obliterating machines without taking trap damage, so I know they're good.

Trap schematics (does the game still call them recipes?) are usually gained by doing a side quest. An NPC will give you a trap as a reward, and thereafter, you can craft them. It's so low-key and easy to miss that I'm only 90% sure this explanation is accurate. 😁

Unless you are gifted traps as loot, you will only have what you craft. It's the same with potions, too, so I often have large and medium potions but no smalls.


Elemental effects are often not about damage, as you observed. Fire usually does great damage, and acid can, too, while also debuffing. Shock paralyzes, of course, and is generally awesome. (You're right that I should be using those aerial shock traps to ground Sunwings.)

Purgewater doesn't do lots of damage, but it cripples the machine. While saturated, they lose all elemental effects and damage types. That's huge against most of the tougher machines.

Plasma I didn't really understand until I did the hunting trial with it. (We don't get good plasma weapons until well into the game, so I didn't pay much attention.) With plasma, you're priming the target for an explosion. When you get the status effect, a little bar appears next to the plasma icon. You fill the bar by damaging the target before the effect times out. When the plasma timer runs out, there's an explosion. If you filled the bar, the explosion is bigger.

Frost is awesome because it makes everything slow and brittle. (Just like my joints! 😖)

Purgewater, Frost, and Shock are mostly good because you can pummel the machine while it's down. Targeting weak points and removing pieces is easier while they're down. If time is running low, or you can't get a good angle, shooting them right in the face is often good.

I use Blast Slings a lot on big machines. I used to tie-down Stormbirds, for instance, in Zero Dawn. Now, they seem to ground themselves, which is nice since the Ropecaster seemed to suck on FW. Whatever gets the big machine down, I can start lobbing bombs into their faces or onto their weakpoints while they're down.

I think you'll feel things get suddenly easier once you get the Legendary weapons. Death-Seeker's Shadow (Hunter Bow) is probably the most important, as it's likely your primary weapon. It has Acid, Impact (standard damage) + Tear.

Sun Scourge, the other Hunter Bow, is number two. It has Frost, Fire, and Shock, IIRC. The advanced arrows can often prime a target in one shot. It cuts out a lot of the busywork of getting the machine frozen/shocked/whatever.

I got the other traps unlocked. I just had to buy one of each! Now I can craft as many as I want. Not tied to quests after all. I've only just now found the last (?) settlement, Tide's Reach. The weapon vendor sells them. Let's see if that makes things easier...

I had the most painful endless fight against a thunderjaw and a songbird doing Drakka's quest. The thunderjaw was no problem but, gosh, that fucking Songbird... Is there any way to disable the shock attack? I kept hitting the front plate weapon over and over but it never came off...
I had to run around in a panic trying to find more healing plants all the time. Took 10min or something to kill the thing. Just awful. Kept shocking me so bad, ugh. Every time I have to kill one in the game it takes way too long. I don't get what I'm supposed to do to take it down quick. Traps seem useless because it rarely lands. And then not where I put the traps. Or it just kills the traps with AoE attacks. Hitting it in the air is difficult because I literally can't see where it is half of the time. I find out when I get shocked, lol.

Upgraded my purple Nora outfit to 4 because why not. I don't really like the look of it but might wear it again because of all the archer perks.

Guess it's about time to continue with the arena, which I only found recently. My approach of doing all lower level sidequests before doing main missions has been a mistake. There are so many places I found really late. Like the arena. Did the beginner stuff. With traps it's easy as pie. The loadout restrictions made the last one against the slitherfang take 4min though.

Soon I should have enough points for one legendary bow at least. Maybe that will help. It's not like I'm struggling with the game all that much, but I wish certain big machines would go down faster so that I can upgrade stuff quickly. Had a pretty awful experience with 3 snapmaws and a shellsnapper. The shellsnapper was a surprise addition. Did not expect that. Wasn't visible before, little ninja asshole! Got frantic quick, lol. I have issues when there's several machines. I struggle to line up shots because one machine will always attack and kick my ass before I can get anything done. Had to go hide in the woods, restock healing. Replenish my slingshot. And eventually I got that damn shellsnapper. Ughhhh. Whenever I think I'll do a quick random machine kill for parts, it gets out of hand, lol.

So both games have that in common.
However, I remember that tripwires were a lot more useful in HZD. I remember that wires and traps and slingshot would kill anything quick at some point. Had that experience only for a little while in FW... Stupid apex versions everywhere... Do enemies level with Aloy more in this game or do I just suck so bad? *g*
I remember snapmaws dying in seconds at some point in the first game. Fire, detonate. Done. Now it's like, shit, acid, fuck, acid, fuck, out of healing.

Yeah, I realized later after logging out that I should've been clearer about traps. It isn't a matter of doing a quest to get them. It's simply a matter of getting the first of a kind. That automatically opens up crafting. It could be a quest, a looted chest or enemy, or buyimg at a vendor that does the job.

Another useful thing that some might overlook is the ability to reorder things on the toolkit wheel. I still don't like it much, but at least we can arrange the items in an order that allows us to reliably find whichever item we need. You just hold down on the D-Pad and the menu pops open. Maybe everyone already knows, but I figured I'd mention it just in case.

Kappa Neko, you are going to feel unstoppable when you get your Legendary bow. It is life-changing. 😆

I remember having this long, resource intensive fight with a Shellsnapper. It just took so long to kill, giving it plenty of time to inflict harm. I limped away from that fight with no medicine or berries left and low health. Aloy was quite literally limping.

I used its innards to open the Arena. I ended up fighting a Shellsnapper shortly after the Arena with my new armor and bow, and it died so easily. The superior ammunition is miles ahead in both damage and effects.


I played a bit more today. Having learned all about the "blocked paths" I'd find by exploring too much too early, I intend to stray less from the story until I have a few tools. I am headed pretty directly for Sylens' coordinates in the west. I have done a few quests along the way, like the first rebel camp, the Bristleback mystery, and the first Salvage Contract.

I'm still playing on Normal, and man is it so much easier! Unhelmeted humans reliably die when taking an arrow to the forehead. Amazing! This time on the salvage contract, the falling logs actually killed the Shellwalker. On Very Hard, they just made it angry.

I might bump it up to Hard tomorrow. I definitely think Very Hard is more satisfying from mid-game onward. It was so grindy for my first playthrough, starting at level 1. The fact that it was my first playthrough likely didn't help. Normal might be a bit too easy for me, but it is definitely fun.

I saved for the evening at the rebel outpost in Southern No Man's Land, Jagged Deep, or something. I'll ride back and turn in my salvage for the loot.

There's a Thunderjaw about 100m north of my campfire. It is level 30, and Aloy is level 13. I am playing on Normal, though, and have a Ravager cannon. I think I can kick its ass. I'll report of whose ass actually gets kicked if I decide to fight it. 😄

Oh, I remember that fight Kappa Neko mentioned, too. I thought, "Pff. Thunderjaws stopped scaring me 5 years ago." Then that stinking Stormbird showed up. I stayed mobile, focusing pretty much entirely on the Thunderjaw. I did soak the Stormbird in acid a few times to slow it down. Once the Thunderjaw was down, I turned to the winged nuisance.

I find that they land way more often in Forbidden West than in Zero Dawn. Maybe because I strip that electricity attack so quickly? In Forbidden West, they're weak to Acid, so I soak them in acid. Then, while they're stunned, I hammer the chest with my best tear attack or with explosive Blast Sling bombs.

I feel like Stormbirds are easier in Forbidden West than in Zero Dawn. Stalkers are way easier. Shellwalkers feel slightly tougher but mostly the same. They changed so many of the resistances and weaknesses that I was often double-checking my machine logs.

I found Snapmaws to be nearly identical, but with one important difference: those Blaze canisters on the shoulders are now Purgewater cannisters. This means they gotta be detonated with Purgewater arrows instead of fire arrows. Also, cannisters in general are always more heavily armored on all machines west of No Man's Land. (Or they were on Very Hard, at least.)

My posts are so long. 😖😁 I'm just excited to talk about this game, I guess. It hasn't been out a month, and I'm dying for NG+. I wonder how many hours I'll play this before wanting a break? With Zero Dawn, I had three or four playthroughs in the bag and was playing other things when NG+ arrived that summer. (I imagine it was ME Andromeda I was playing.) Forbidden West is a much longer game, so two might be plenty of playthroughs before NG+.

Finished the main quest, I really wasn't a fan of the main quest overall, the character moments within the quests were the best parts. It ended with a whimper in my opinion, but when the final cutscene played and I realized I had been playing Mass Effect 2 all this time, I burst out laughing. I half expected a head nod from Jack. Haha. Other than the main plot and the crafting grind, I really enjoyed everything else about this game.

Joke spoiler for Horizon III

Kappa Neko, I am probably late in answering, but "Singularity" is the final questline. The game does have a proper post-game, so you'll still be able to chase collectibles or whatnot after the story is resolved. I look forward to talking about the full game now that most of our little group seems to have finished.


My pup hurt his back, or more likely he slowly aggravated his back until he was really hurting. I've spent most of the last week doting on him. I didn't play at all yesterday. The good news is that he's feeling great, now, with his pain relievers. He has to take it easy for a week or so, but he believes he's 100%. The little dude kept me very busy today, much to my relief and pleasure.

I did squeeze in about 90 minutes of Forbidden West. I chose to load my post-game save and hunt some upgrades. I initially had certain weapons in mind (particularly Forgefall), but it turned into hunting the nearest big machine.

I ended up killing an Apex Fireclaw, an Apex Tremortusk, and an Apex Slitherfang, along with a Tideripper, two other Slitherfangs, and another Tremortusk. If I'd fast traveled instead of flying, I could've maybe squeezed in a few more.

I didn't use any special builds or anything this time. I just used my Nora Thunder Warrior Armor and the Ranged Master Valor Surge. Good times. I know that every time I upgrade my Legendaries, these hunts will become even easier.

Playing from level 1 a few days ago, I noticed a couple of Firegleam locations that I bet I overlooked the first time. I saw one in the temporarily flooded mine in The Daunt. I saw ​another in the area where we first meet Erend fighting the Bristleback. I didn't know what they were so early and probably ignored them entirely. Maybe I'll go check tomorrow.

I want to keep playing my low-level game. Despite the goofy main story, the game is still fun. That said, I really want to keep progressing my legendary gear, trying new playstyles, and tinkering with "builds."

Why must so many publishers now save NG+ for "post-launch support"? BioWare has been offering NG+ by default in ME since 2007. I wish more publishers did the same. They'd actually keep some of us more engaged that way.

Nah. Valor Surge abilities have a meter that fills up over time during combat, and then are activated in the weapon wheel. The more the meter is filled the longer the duration of the Valor Surge. You have one active at a time. There's maybe ten or so different ones, there's even a cloak one.

^Here is an example of one. There woven into the skill trees. You need to unlock the surrounding skills to unlock the Surge. Each Surge can up upgraded to level 3.  

I've been finishing up some side quests. Also, happy Saint Patrick's Day!

I started Horizon: Forbidden West for the first time today (No Spoilers, please). You all know me. I like to show with Photo Mode:











On a side note, I don't get what people are saying on social media. In my opinion, Aloy is an attractive female character in both games. Do they want someone who looks overly conventional all the time?