Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 7, 2020 22:19:32 GMT
Yeah, but why would a sociopath be concerned about ''doing the right thing'' in the first place? I think it's not so much "doing the right thing" he's concerned with as being loyal to "his tribe" (as he calls the Roci crew) He knows he can't be trusted to act on his own since he doesn't "get" morality or even social niceties. And he doesn't want to cause trouble for his people.
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Post by dazk on Jan 7, 2020 23:04:54 GMT
Yeah, but why would a sociopath be concerned about ''doing the right thing'' in the first place? Good question! He's probably not, but I lack all the info as I'm only on both season 2 and "Caliban's war" atm. He might be more than a simple sociopath, but I don't know... Also season 2 is by far the best show I saw in a long, long time ... If we are talking about Holden I don't believe he is a Sociopath - MEANING: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour." I believe the reference re Sociopaths was about the main antagonists in the series. Holden is I would say a naïve believer in right and wrong and who again naively believes the best in people due to his upbringing. The world and his crew in The Expanse are educating him it's not all black and white but a fair bit of grey in between.
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Post by dazk on Jan 7, 2020 23:08:20 GMT
Yeah, but why would a sociopath be concerned about ''doing the right thing'' in the first place? Good question! He's probably not, but I lack all the info as I'm only on both season 2 and "Caliban's war" atm. He might be more than a simple sociopath, but I don't know... Also season 2 is by far the best show I saw in a long, long time ... Glad you are enjoying it Doc, the series builds nicely from S1 to 3, I think some will find S4 a bit of a let down as it's a bit of a change of pace and setting but book 4 was my favourite, I wish they hadn't tampered with the storyline of Naomi in particular.
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docsteely
N6
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Post by docsteely on Jan 7, 2020 23:40:50 GMT
Good question! He's probably not, but I lack all the info as I'm only on both season 2 and "Caliban's war" atm. He might be more than a simple sociopath, but I don't know... Also season 2 is by far the best show I saw in a long, long time ... If we are talking about Holden I don't believe he is a Sociopath - MEANING: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour." I believe the reference re Sociopaths was about the main antagonists in the series. Holden is I would say a naïve believer in right and wrong and who again naively believes the best in people due to his upbringing. The world and his crew in The Expanse are educating him it's not all black and white but a fair bit of grey in between. Actually, as far as I understood, Beetle was referring to Amos... Holden is just a dick with a Messiah complex imo: I hated the way he treated Miller (my favorite char up to this moment).
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Post by dazk on Jan 8, 2020 3:12:30 GMT
If we are talking about Holden I don't believe he is a Sociopath - MEANING: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour." I believe the reference re Sociopaths was about the main antagonists in the series. Holden is I would say a naïve believer in right and wrong and who again naively believes the best in people due to his upbringing. The world and his crew in The Expanse are educating him it's not all black and white but a fair bit of grey in between. Actually, as far as I understood, Beetle was referring to Amos... Holden is just a dick with a Messiah complex imo: I hated the way he treated Miller (my favorite char up to this moment). Aaaagh, thanks. Amos is just messed up and emotionally repressed from his childhood, I hope they show his origin story in the series. In season 4 you learn more about him, he was one of my least favourite characters in the books until book 4 and after reading his Origin Novella where you get to understand him much better. I know the incident you are talking about with Miller and Amos and I thought there was a specific trigger for that but I can't remember what it was.
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saandrig
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Post by saandrig on Jan 10, 2020 11:53:55 GMT
There I was, wondering "when did Avasarala remarry? And to a dude with the same job" before I figured "Oooooh, recasting". I know Brian George had like 10 minutes in the show in previous seasons, but I always like seeing a guy that is a constant voiceover in Bioware games since...forever?
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Post by dazk on Jan 10, 2020 23:23:45 GMT
There I was, wondering "when did Avasarala remarry? And to a dude with the same job" before I figured "Oooooh, recasting". I know Brian George had like 10 minutes in the show in previous seasons, but I always like seeing a guy that is a constant voiceover in Bioware games since...forever? Any idea why they recast the role, I thought the other guy was a perfect fit whereas I don't like the new actor at all especially as he doesn't seem in anyway like the book character in appearance or his speech. I do not recognise his voice at all but I am terrible at that, I think the only person I can claim to have recognised is Vernon Roaches voice actor from TW2 who also voices Aroane in MEA. Just out of interest can you let me know some characters he's voiced for Bioware games?
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docsteely
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Post by docsteely on Jan 10, 2020 23:36:44 GMT
There I was, wondering "when did Avasarala remarry? And to a dude with the same job" before I figured "Oooooh, recasting". I know Brian George had like 10 minutes in the show in previous seasons, but I always like seeing a guy that is a constant voiceover in Bioware games since...forever? Any idea why they recast the role, I thought the other guy was a perfect fit whereas I don't like the new actor at all especially as he doesn't seem in anyway like the book character in appearance or his speech. I do not recognise his voice at all but I am terrible at that, I think the only person I can claim to have recognised is Vernon Roaches voice actor from TW2 who also voices Aroane in MEA. Just out of interest can you let me know some characters he's voiced for Bioware games? His name is Michael Benyaer and the only BW game I've found in his IMDB cv is SW:TOR...
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Post by dazk on Jan 11, 2020 1:02:19 GMT
Any idea why they recast the role, I thought the other guy was a perfect fit whereas I don't like the new actor at all especially as he doesn't seem in anyway like the book character in appearance or his speech. I do not recognise his voice at all but I am terrible at that, I think the only person I can claim to have recognised is Vernon Roaches voice actor from TW2 who also voices Aroane in MEA. Just out of interest can you let me know some characters he's voiced for Bioware games? His name is Michael Benyaer and the only BW game I've found in his IMDB cv is SW:TOR... Cheers Doc, I am terrible at recognising the VA's in games. I haven't played SWTOR so I would have had no hope anyway!!!!!
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saandrig
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Post by saandrig on Jan 11, 2020 9:23:03 GMT
Any idea why they recast the role, I thought the other guy was a perfect fit whereas I don't like the new actor at all especially as he doesn't seem in anyway like the book character in appearance or his speech. I do not recognise his voice at all but I am terrible at that, I think the only person I can claim to have recognised is Vernon Roaches voice actor from TW2 who also voices Aroane in MEA. Just out of interest can you let me know some characters he's voiced for Bioware games? His name is Michael Benyaer and the only BW game I've found in his IMDB cv is SW:TOR... I meant Brian George as the regular Bioware voice. Goes back as far as Baldur's Gate. Master Zhar in KOTOR, Also Kahoku, Samesh Bhatia, General Petrovsky, Gregoir, Ser Otto, Larius, etc. from the ME and DA franchises.
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docsteely
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Post by docsteely on Jan 11, 2020 16:26:13 GMT
His name is Michael Benyaer and the only BW game I've found in his IMDB cv is SW:TOR... I meant Brian George as the regular Bioware voice. Goes back as far as Baldur's Gate. Master Zhar in KOTOR, Also Kahoku, Samesh Bhatia, General Petrovsky, Gregoir, Ser Otto, Larius, etc. from the ME and DA franchises. My bad. Indeed he is one of the regulars in BW games...
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 13, 2020 21:41:19 GMT
Finished season 4. This remains the best tv show out there at the moment and probably shares top spot on best scifi shows of all time with my good old ST;TNG. That said, I think season 4 was the weakest season so far. Full disclosure, I haven't read the books. While it was clear after the end of season 3, that we had to go through the rings to another solar system, the fact that the plot and cast was effectively separated in two very distant theaters that could barely interact with each other made the entire thing feel much more divided and less interactive than the previous seasons that concentrated on the Sol sytem or even the smaller ring space.
I didn't really mind much that the most of the Illum plotline took place planetside (I expected as much) and I think the alien-ness of the new world came across very well. However, there were several things I didn't like about this plotline, the most irritating being the villain. This dude was by far the weakest villain we've seen in The Expanse yet. Sure, Mao and Evenwright were narcissistic sociopathic assholes as well but they had proper motives and acted with some form of subtlety (for the most part at least). This guy (he annoyed me so much, I refused to remember his name) just comes across as a pure psychopath from the get-go and why anyone (especially Amos's girl, who generally seemed like a half way decent person) would follow him didn't really come across IMO. He seemed more like a paper cutout villain with a bunch of thugs. IMO, it didn't fit into the Expanse universe at all, where everyone has some motives so that at least they themselves can perceive their actions as good or at least necessary.
The Rocinante crew is ... well, consistent. I thought all of them were always a little too "good" since season 1 but hey, that's who they are I guess. While I get the comment from an earlier poster about Holden having a messiah complex on BioWare level, one has to admit, at least here, there is a somewhat logical progression to Holden's special nature. At least, he isn't "the chosen one" or anything. He is there because of the Miller visions, he has the Miller visions because the Protomolecule presumably knew though Miller's memories which it absorbed that Holden is a driven individual, an independent agent from the major powers and has his own ship. So logically it makes sense for Holden and crew to be in the centre of things here but yeah, sometimes all of them take it a bit far with the "I casually risk my life to help strangers" attitude. That's nothing new to season 4 though. The exception is of course Amos, who is probably actually my favorite character on the Roci crew. Miller was cool as always, both as the Investigator and as himself. Only him becoming that robot at the very end was a little strange there. I think I liked the Protomolecule somewhat better in seasons 1 and 2 when it was just this truely mysterious substance, not some angry entity that can't properly control it's own tech. but that kind of decline in wonder as one learns more and more about the mystery is a curse of any ongoing series I guess.
So in the end, I think agree with those that say that the Earth/Mars/Belter plot was the better one. The political struggles around the ring and its implication for mankind are both believable and interesting. And there are plenty of likable and interesting characters there. No matter who you may root for, at least here, you can understand all of their perspectives on things.
Someone above said that it was not properly made clear why Mars is in decline. I thought the cop-gone-criminal makes this perfectly clear in one of the later episodes. The reality of the ring and access to potentially inhabitable planets beyond makes the terraforming efforts on Mars kinda pointless. Why spend all the time and effort to terraform Mars if you can have access to viable planets with more resources immediately? So the young and bright minds will leave sooner rather than later and thus Mars is doomed to become a backwater world where only the unfortunate ones that didn't make it off in time will be left behind. It's a pretty believable scenario and it's great to see Boby struggle with this realization over time.
Avasarala was cool as always, though I was shocked that they simply recast her husband. I like the actor in season 1 better I think, he came across as kinder, which was a nice contrast to her badass uncompromising nature. But I assume they didn't have a choice there.
Shame about Ashford. He quickly became a favorite of mine in season 3 and even more so in s4. Overall, I think the portrayal of the Belters as both victims ans criminals is one of the huge strengths of The Expanse and it looks like they are keeping this up nicely.
On that note, while I think s4 could not quite hold the candle to 1-3, I am really looking forward to s5. After 3 seasons of solid 10/10 I'll still give 8.5 toxic water slugs to this one. I am hoping we'll get another 2 seasons or so after that and that they will than end the series with a bang. I'd hate for it to just fade into repetitive BS at some point, like e.g. 24 did. Better to give us some more great storylines and then wrap it up nicely eventually. P.S.: Oh, Visually and technically, this season was beyond awesome yet again. No complaints there as always.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 13, 2020 23:37:20 GMT
Finished season 4. This remains the best tv show out there at the moment and probably shares top spot on best scifi shows of all time with my good old ST;TNG. That said, I think season 4 was the weakest season so far. Full disclosure, I haven't read the books. While it was clear after the end of season 3, that we had to go through the rings to another solar system, the fact that the plot and cast was effectively separated in two very distant theaters that could barely interact with each other made the entire thing feel much more divided and less interactive than the previous seasons that concentrated on the Sol sytem or even the smaller ring space. I didn't really mind much the most of the Illum plotline took place planetside (I expected as much) and I think alien-ness of the new world came across very well. However, there were several things I didn't like about this plotline, the most irritating being the villain. This dude was by far the weakest villain we've seen in The Expanse yet. Sure, Mao and Evenwright were a narcissistic sociopathic assholes as well but they had proper motives and acted with some form of subtlety (for the most part at least). This guy (he annoyed me so much, I refused to remember his name) just comes across as a pure psychopath from the get-go and why anyone (especially Amos's girl, who generally seemed like a half way decent person) would follow him didn't really come across IMO. He seemed more like a paper cutout villain with a bunch of thugs. IMO, it didn't fit into the Expanse universe at all, where everyone has some motives so that at least they themselves can perceive their action as good or at least necessary. The Rocinante crew is ... well, consistent. I thought all of them were always a little too "good" since season 1 but hey, that's who they are I guess. While I get the comment from an earlier poster about Holden having a messiah complex on BioWare level, one has to admit, at least here, there is a somewhat logical progression to Holden's special nature. At least, he isn't "the chosen one" or anything. He is there because of the Miller visions, he has the Miller visions because the Protomolecule presumably knew though Miller memories which it absorbed that Holden is a driven individual, an independent agent from the major powers and has his own ship. So logically it makes sense for Holden and crew to be in the centre of things here but yeah, sometimes all of them take a bit far with the "I casually risk my life to help strangers" attitude. That's nothing new to season 4 though. The exception is of course Amos, who is probably actually my favorite character on the Roci crew. Miller was cool as always, both as the Investigator and as himself. Only him becoming that robot at the very end was a little strange there. I think I liked the Protomolecule somewhat better in seasons 1 and 2 when it was just this truely mysterious substance, not some angry entity that can't properly control it's own tech. but that kind of decline in wonder as one learns more and more about the mystery is a curse of any ongoing series I guess. So in the end, I think agree with those that say that the Earth/Mars/Belter plot was the better one. The political struggles aroudn the ring and its implication for mankind are both believable and interesting. And there are plenty of likable and interesting characters there. No matter who you may root for, at least here, you can understand all of their perspectives on things. Someone above said that it was not properly made clear why Mars is in decline. I thought the cop-gone-criminal makes this perfectly clear in one of the later episodes. The reality of the ring and access to potentially inhabitable planets beyond makes the terraforming efforts on Mars kinda pointless. Why spend all the time and effort to terraform Mars if you can have access to viable planets with more resources immediately? So the young and bright minds will leave sooner rather than later and thus Mars is doomed to become a backwater world where only the unfortunate ones that didn't make it off in time will be left behind. It's a pretty believable scenario and it's great to see Bobby struglle with this realization over time. Avasarala was cool as always, though I was shocked that they simply recast her husband. I like the actor in season 1 better I think, he came across as kinder, which was a nice contrast to her badass uncompromising nature. But I assume they didn't have a choice there. Shame about Ashford. He quickly became a favorite of mine in season 3 and even more so in s4. Overall, I think the portrayal of the Belters as both victims ans criminals is one of the huge strengths of The Expanse and it looks like they are keeping this up nicely.
On that note, while I think s4 could not quite hold the candle to 1-3, I am really looking forward to s5.
After 3 seasons of solid 10/10 I'll still give 8.5 toxic water slugs to this one.
I am hoping we'll get another 2 seasons or so after that and that they will than end the series with a bang. I'd hate for it to just fade into repetitive BS at some point, like e.g. 24 did. Better to give us some more great storylines and then wrap it up nicely eventually.
P.S.: Oh, Visually and technically, this season was beyond awesome yet again. No complaints there as always.
Concerning the books: The book was set almost entirely on Ilum/New Terra. Bobbie and Ashford weren't in the book at all, and Avasarala was only in the very beginning. Bobbie's role in the series came (I believe) from a novella written about her time on Mars during this point in time.
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Post by dazk on Jan 14, 2020 4:18:13 GMT
Finished season 4. This remains the best tv show out there at the moment and probably shares top spot on best scifi shows of all time with my good old ST;TNG. That said, I think season 4 was the weakest season so far. Full disclosure, I haven't read the books. While it was clear after the end of season 3, that we had to go through the rings to another solar system, the fact that the plot and cast was effectively separated in two very distant theaters that could barely interact with each other made the entire thing feel much more divided and less interactive than the previous seasons that concentrated on the Sol sytem or even the smaller ring space. I didn't really mind much the most of the Illum plotline took place planetside (I expected as much) and I think alien-ness of the new world came across very well. However, there were several things I didn't like about this plotline, the most irritating being the villain. This dude was by far the weakest villain we've seen in The Expanse yet. Sure, Mao and Evenwright were a narcissistic sociopathic assholes as well but they had proper motives and acted with some form of subtlety (for the most part at least). This guy (he annoyed me so much, I refused to remember his name) just comes across as a pure psychopath from the get-go and why anyone (especially Amos's girl, who generally seemed like a half way decent person) would follow him didn't really come across IMO. He seemed more like a paper cutout villain with a bunch of thugs. IMO, it didn't fit into the Expanse universe at all, where everyone has some motives so that at least they themselves can perceive their action as good or at least necessary. The Rocinante crew is ... well, consistent. I thought all of them were always a little too "good" since season 1 but hey, that's who they are I guess. While I get the comment from an earlier poster about Holden having a messiah complex on BioWare level, one has to admit, at least here, there is a somewhat logical progression to Holden's special nature. At least, he isn't "the chosen one" or anything. He is there because of the Miller visions, he has the Miller visions because the Protomolecule presumably knew though Miller memories which it absorbed that Holden is a driven individual, an independent agent from the major powers and has his own ship. So logically it makes sense for Holden and crew to be in the centre of things here but yeah, sometimes all of them take a bit far with the "I casually risk my life to help strangers" attitude. That's nothing new to season 4 though. The exception is of course Amos, who is probably actually my favorite character on the Roci crew. Miller was cool as always, both as the Investigator and as himself. Only him becoming that robot at the very end was a little strange there. I think I liked the Protomolecule somewhat better in seasons 1 and 2 when it was just this truely mysterious substance, not some angry entity that can't properly control it's own tech. but that kind of decline in wonder as one learns more and more about the mystery is a curse of any ongoing series I guess. So in the end, I think agree with those that say that the Earth/Mars/Belter plot was the better one. The political struggles aroudn the ring and its implication for mankind are both believable and interesting. And there are plenty of likable and interesting characters there. No matter who you may root for, at least here, you can understand all of their perspectives on things. Someone above said that it was not properly made clear why Mars is in decline. I thought the cop-gone-criminal makes this perfectly clear in one of the later episodes. The reality of the ring and access to potentially inhabitable planets beyond makes the terraforming efforts on Mars kinda pointless. Why spend all the time and effort to terraform Mars if you can have access to viable planets with more resources immediately? So the young and bright minds will leave sooner rather than later and thus Mars is doomed to become a backwater world where only the unfortunate ones that didn't make it off in time will be left behind. It's a pretty believable scenario and it's great to see Bobby struglle with this realization over time. Avasarala was cool as always, though I was shocked that they simply recast her husband. I like the actor in season 1 better I think, he came across as kinder, which was a nice contrast to her badass uncompromising nature. But I assume they didn't have a choice there. Shame about Ashford. He quickly became a favorite of mine in season 3 and even more so in s4. Overall, I think the portrayal of the Belters as both victims ans criminals is one of the huge strengths of The Expanse and it looks like they are keeping this up nicely.
On that note, while I think s4 could not quite hold the candle to 1-3, I am really looking forward to s5.
After 3 seasons of solid 10/10 I'll still give 8.5 toxic water slugs to this one.
I am hoping we'll get another 2 seasons or so after that and that they will than end the series with a bang. I'd hate for it to just fade into repetitive BS at some point, like e.g. 24 did. Better to give us some more great storylines and then wrap it up nicely eventually.
P.S.: Oh, Visually and technically, this season was beyond awesome yet again. No complaints there as always.
Book 4 was my favourite book with Book 8 Tiamat's Wraith being a very close 2nd. This season suffered the worst in terms of changes to the book in my opinion, the book plot is very different in terms of Naomi and Alex's role and how they are involved and that in my opinion ramped up the tension and drama more in the book. The season was also hamstrung by choices the show producers made early on to merge characters so they could cut others out. Murtry also comes across as a far more fleshed out and even more sinister character in the book and the tension between Amos and him is played out longer and more effectively. As far as Wei (SP?) Murtry's 2IC is concerned she is beholden to him because of him saving her life during an undefined situation in their past. The situation with the death slugs is probably better to read than see and for me it lost it's potency on the screen. The book also makes it far clearer by going into more detail as to why Miller has to take control of the robot thing and spends more time explaining what happens to Dr Okoye and what the thing they encounter is and what happens in that scene. If you like the whole Earth v Mars v The Belters the next couple of seasons take that to a new level IIRC. If the show sticks to one season per book, book 8 has already been released and book 9 will be released hopefully this year, so five more seasons.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 14, 2020 4:58:32 GMT
Oh, ok, so they really did one season per book? I wasn't sure of that. Well, as long as the books provide good storylines to keep it up and they manage to adapt them well, I say go for it.
I definitely plan to go through the books eventually. Though I might rather get the audio books on audible or something. Curious to see all the changes the other way round.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 14, 2020 5:04:52 GMT
One thing I hope the show does change from the books: Bobbie's death. She's my favorite character in the series. Also hope they keep her out of any sexual relationships like it seems they did in the books.
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Post by dazk on Jan 14, 2020 6:24:36 GMT
Oh, ok, so they really did one season per book? I wasn't sure of that. Well, as long as the book provide good storylines to keep it up and they manage to adapt them well, I say go for it. I definitely plan to go through the books eventually. Though I might rather get the audio books on audible or something. Curious to see all the changes the other way round. There are also some Novellas and short stories which cover the characters "origin" stories that they are tying bits and pieces of into the tv series as well. With a lot of the changes I think it was to reduce the cost of too many actors as there are a lot of short term characters (appear mainly in one book) in the books or people who play small bits in the books that return often.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 14, 2020 14:32:53 GMT
Finished season 4. This remains the best tv show out there at the moment and probably shares top spot on best scifi shows of all time with my good old ST;TNG. That said, I think season 4 was the weakest season so far. Full disclosure, I haven't read the books. While it was clear after the end of season 3, that we had to go through the rings to another solar system, the fact that the plot and cast was effectively separated in two very distant theaters that could barely interact with each other made the entire thing feel much more divided and less interactive than the previous seasons that concentrated on the Sol sytem or even the smaller ring space. I didn't really mind much the most of the Illum plotline took place planetside (I expected as much) and I think alien-ness of the new world came across very well. However, there were several things I didn't like about this plotline, the most irritating being the villain. This dude was by far the weakest villain we've seen in The Expanse yet. Sure, Mao and Evenwright were a narcissistic sociopathic assholes as well but they had proper motives and acted with some form of subtlety (for the most part at least). This guy (he annoyed me so much, I refused to remember his name) just comes across as a pure psychopath from the get-go and why anyone (especially Amos's girl, who generally seemed like a half way decent person) would follow him didn't really come across IMO. He seemed more like a paper cutout villain with a bunch of thugs. IMO, it didn't fit into the Expanse universe at all, where everyone has some motives so that at least they themselves can perceive their action as good or at least necessary. The Rocinante crew is ... well, consistent. I thought all of them were always a little too "good" since season 1 but hey, that's who they are I guess. While I get the comment from an earlier poster about Holden having a messiah complex on BioWare level, one has to admit, at least here, there is a somewhat logical progression to Holden's special nature. At least, he isn't "the chosen one" or anything. He is there because of the Miller visions, he has the Miller visions because the Protomolecule presumably knew though Miller memories which it absorbed that Holden is a driven individual, an independent agent from the major powers and has his own ship. So logically it makes sense for Holden and crew to be in the centre of things here but yeah, sometimes all of them take a bit far with the "I casually risk my life to help strangers" attitude. That's nothing new to season 4 though. The exception is of course Amos, who is probably actually my favorite character on the Roci crew. Miller was cool as always, both as the Investigator and as himself. Only him becoming that robot at the very end was a little strange there. I think I liked the Protomolecule somewhat better in seasons 1 and 2 when it was just this truely mysterious substance, not some angry entity that can't properly control it's own tech. but that kind of decline in wonder as one learns more and more about the mystery is a curse of any ongoing series I guess. So in the end, I think agree with those that say that the Earth/Mars/Belter plot was the better one. The political struggles aroudn the ring and its implication for mankind are both believable and interesting. And there are plenty of likable and interesting characters there. No matter who you may root for, at least here, you can understand all of their perspectives on things. Someone above said that it was not properly made clear why Mars is in decline. I thought the cop-gone-criminal makes this perfectly clear in one of the later episodes. The reality of the ring and access to potentially inhabitable planets beyond makes the terraforming efforts on Mars kinda pointless. Why spend all the time and effort to terraform Mars if you can have access to viable planets with more resources immediately? So the young and bright minds will leave sooner rather than later and thus Mars is doomed to become a backwater world where only the unfortunate ones that didn't make it off in time will be left behind. It's a pretty believable scenario and it's great to see Bobby struglle with this realization over time. Avasarala was cool as always, though I was shocked that they simply recast her husband. I like the actor in season 1 better I think, he came across as kinder, which was a nice contrast to her badass uncompromising nature. But I assume they didn't have a choice there. Shame about Ashford. He quickly became a favorite of mine in season 3 and even more so in s4. Overall, I think the portrayal of the Belters as both victims ans criminals is one of the huge strengths of The Expanse and it looks like they are keeping this up nicely.
On that note, while I think s4 could not quite hold the candle to 1-3, I am really looking forward to s5.
After 3 seasons of solid 10/10 I'll still give 8.5 toxic water slugs to this one.
I am hoping we'll get another 2 seasons or so after that and that they will than end the series with a bang. I'd hate for it to just fade into repetitive BS at some point, like e.g. 24 did. Better to give us some more great storylines and then wrap it up nicely eventually.
P.S.: Oh, Visually and technically, this season was beyond awesome yet again. No complaints there as always.
Book 4 was my favourite book with Book 8 Tiamat's Wraith being a very close 2nd. This season suffered the worst in terms of changes to the book in my opinion, the book plot is very different in terms of Naomi and Alex's role and how they are involved and that in my opinion ramped up the tension and drama more in the book. The season was also hamstrung by choices the show producers made early on to merge characters so they could cut others out. Murtry also comes across as a far more fleshed out and even more sinister character in the book and the tension between Amos and him is played out longer and more effectively. As far as Wei (SP?) Murtry's 2IC is concerned she is beholden to him because of him saving her life during an undefined situation in their past. The situation with the death slugs is probably better to read than see and for me it lost it's potency on the screen. The book also makes it far clearer by going into more detail as to why Miller has to take control of the robot thing and spends more time explaining what happens to Dr Okoye and what the thing they encounter is and what happens in that scene. If you like the whole Earth v Mars v The Belters the next couple of seasons take that to a new level IIRC.If the show sticks to one season per book, book 8 has already been released and book 9 will be released hopefully this year, so five more seasons. Next season is gonna be THE SH*T when it comes to Earth v Mars v The Belt if they follow Nemesis Games. Everyone on the Roci had their own personal storyline as I recall. Plus given the direction they took Drummer this season, things should get interesting for her too Looks like she'll be taking Michio Pa's role in the upcoming Free Navy storyline.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 14, 2020 21:21:55 GMT
Started watching this again. The Expanse has got to be one of the greatest scifi shows of all time.
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Post by dazk on Jan 14, 2020 23:31:35 GMT
Book 4 was my favourite book with Book 8 Tiamat's Wraith being a very close 2nd. This season suffered the worst in terms of changes to the book in my opinion, the book plot is very different in terms of Naomi and Alex's role and how they are involved and that in my opinion ramped up the tension and drama more in the book. The season was also hamstrung by choices the show producers made early on to merge characters so they could cut others out. Murtry also comes across as a far more fleshed out and even more sinister character in the book and the tension between Amos and him is played out longer and more effectively. As far as Wei (SP?) Murtry's 2IC is concerned she is beholden to him because of him saving her life during an undefined situation in their past. The situation with the death slugs is probably better to read than see and for me it lost it's potency on the screen. The book also makes it far clearer by going into more detail as to why Miller has to take control of the robot thing and spends more time explaining what happens to Dr Okoye and what the thing they encounter is and what happens in that scene. If you like the whole Earth v Mars v The Belters the next couple of seasons take that to a new level IIRC.If the show sticks to one season per book, book 8 has already been released and book 9 will be released hopefully this year, so five more seasons. Next season is gonna be THE SH*T when it comes to Earth v Mars v The Belt if they follow Nemesis Games. Everyone on the Roci had their own personal storyline as I recall. Plus given the direction they took Drummer this season, things should get interesting for her too Looks like she'll be taking Michio Pa's role in the upcoming Free Navy storyline. I am hoping they insert Amos origin story as a flashback to his part on Earth as well, that'd be really good or is Amos on Earth the following book? Books 5 & 6 are a bit of a blur to me. Re Drummer I always wondered how they'd play the Free navy side of things and her leaving the Behemoth opened that up, it's a shame really I thought both her and Pa were really good individual characters. It will be interesting to see how much time they give to Phillip's character as I got the impression they already cut out his role in acquiring the Stealth tech to put it in Bobbie's role in book 4.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 14, 2020 23:42:31 GMT
Next season is gonna be THE SH*T when it comes to Earth v Mars v The Belt if they follow Nemesis Games. Everyone on the Roci had their own personal storyline as I recall. Plus given the direction they took Drummer this season, things should get interesting for her too Looks like she'll be taking Michio Pa's role in the upcoming Free Navy storyline. I am hoping they insert Amos origin story as a flashback to his part on Earth as well, that'd be really good or is Amos on Earth the following book? Books 5 & 6 are a bit of a blur to me. They might: It's the book where he busts Clarissa out of prison, They spend some time hiding out in Baltimore, in his old stomping grounds.
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Post by dazk on Jan 14, 2020 23:50:20 GMT
I am hoping they insert Amos origin story as a flashback to his part on Earth as well, that'd be really good or is Amos on Earth the following book? Books 5 & 6 are a bit of a blur to me. They might: It's the book where he busts Clarissa out of prison, They spend some time hiding out in Baltimore, in his old stomping grounds. Yeah thought so that's why I hoped they'd show Amos origin as a flashback. If they don't show him getting Clarissa out of prison will be hard to incorporate her into the rest of the series. I hope they start releasing the series more frequently than one series every year.
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Post by Lavochkin on Jan 15, 2020 4:11:00 GMT
Just got into the show two days ago on a whim after seeing it was on prime(which i have) and have been thoroughly enjoying. I'm currently half way into season 2, so I won't really be checking out this thread until I'm fully caught up.
Oh and Miller is best character and Julie is best waifu(with Drummer in second place).
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Jan 21, 2020 8:58:46 GMT
Finished season 4. This remains the best tv show out there at the moment and probably shares top spot on best scifi shows of all time with my good old ST;TNG. That said, I think season 4 was the weakest season so far. Full disclosure, I haven't read the books. While it was clear after the end of season 3, that we had to go through the rings to another solar system, the fact that the plot and cast was effectively separated in two very distant theaters that could barely interact with each other made the entire thing feel much more divided and less interactive than the previous seasons that concentrated on the Sol sytem or even the smaller ring space.
I didn't really mind much that the most of the Illum plotline took place planetside (I expected as much) and I think the alien-ness of the new world came across very well. However, there were several things I didn't like about this plotline, the most irritating being the villain. This dude was by far the weakest villain we've seen in The Expanse yet. Sure, Mao and Evenwright were narcissistic sociopathic assholes as well but they had proper motives and acted with some form of subtlety (for the most part at least). This guy (he annoyed me so much, I refused to remember his name) just comes across as a pure psychopath from the get-go and why anyone (especially Amos's girl, who generally seemed like a half way decent person) would follow him didn't really come across IMO. He seemed more like a paper cutout villain with a bunch of thugs. IMO, it didn't fit into the Expanse universe at all, where everyone has some motives so that at least they themselves can perceive their actions as good or at least necessary.
The Rocinante crew is ... well, consistent. I thought all of them were always a little too "good" since season 1 but hey, that's who they are I guess. While I get the comment from an earlier poster about Holden having a messiah complex on BioWare level, one has to admit, at least here, there is a somewhat logical progression to Holden's special nature. At least, he isn't "the chosen one" or anything. He is there because of the Miller visions, he has the Miller visions because the Protomolecule presumably knew though Miller's memories which it absorbed that Holden is a driven individual, an independent agent from the major powers and has his own ship. So logically it makes sense for Holden and crew to be in the centre of things here but yeah, sometimes all of them take it a bit far with the "I casually risk my life to help strangers" attitude. That's nothing new to season 4 though. The exception is of course Amos, who is probably actually my favorite character on the Roci crew. Miller was cool as always, both as the Investigator and as himself. Only him becoming that robot at the very end was a little strange there. I think I liked the Protomolecule somewhat better in seasons 1 and 2 when it was just this truely mysterious substance, not some angry entity that can't properly control it's own tech. but that kind of decline in wonder as one learns more and more about the mystery is a curse of any ongoing series I guess.
So in the end, I think agree with those that say that the Earth/Mars/Belter plot was the better one. The political struggles around the ring and its implication for mankind are both believable and interesting. And there are plenty of likable and interesting characters there. No matter who you may root for, at least here, you can understand all of their perspectives on things.
Someone above said that it was not properly made clear why Mars is in decline. I thought the cop-gone-criminal makes this perfectly clear in one of the later episodes. The reality of the ring and access to potentially inhabitable planets beyond makes the terraforming efforts on Mars kinda pointless. Why spend all the time and effort to terraform Mars if you can have access to viable planets with more resources immediately? So the young and bright minds will leave sooner rather than later and thus Mars is doomed to become a backwater world where only the unfortunate ones that didn't make it off in time will be left behind. It's a pretty believable scenario and it's great to see Boby struggle with this realization over time.
Avasarala was cool as always, though I was shocked that they simply recast her husband. I like the actor in season 1 better I think, he came across as kinder, which was a nice contrast to her badass uncompromising nature. But I assume they didn't have a choice there.
Shame about Ashford. He quickly became a favorite of mine in season 3 and even more so in s4. Overall, I think the portrayal of the Belters as both victims ans criminals is one of the huge strengths of The Expanse and it looks like they are keeping this up nicely.
On that note, while I think s4 could not quite hold the candle to 1-3, I am really looking forward to s5. After 3 seasons of solid 10/10 I'll still give 8.5 toxic water slugs to this one. I am hoping we'll get another 2 seasons or so after that and that they will than end the series with a bang. I'd hate for it to just fade into repetitive BS at some point, like e.g. 24 did. Better to give us some more great storylines and then wrap it up nicely eventually. P.S.: Oh, Visually and technically, this season was beyond awesome yet again. No complaints there as always. An excellent review; and one that almost totally reflects my own opinion. I really enjoyed the season although I have to say that I was not so invested in the plot or the characters as I've been in previous seasons. Best storylines for me were ... ... the plot around Bobbie and Mars in general. What happens on the planet is perfectly woven into Draper's subplot and her development was super relatable. "Something's rotten on Mars" - hell yeah it is. To be fair, I had no real idea about the direction her plot was evolving into but the later episodes perfectly explained everything. Super excited about what's to come here. ... Avasarala and the election. The scenes were smartly chosen, you can feel her sliding deeper into the political abyss with every carefully picked scene. Great acting on all parts there! ... Ashford. *le sigh* The way his character was being fleshed out from season to season was brilliant. He was one of the characters I didn't much care for in the beginning and quickly evolved into one of my favourites. It takes some time to understand what makes him act the way he does ... a pity we won't be seeing him any more. What happens on the planet was a bit generic for my taste, there was no real development there for any character. It wasn't bad at all, there was some nice action and obviously everything looked stunning from a visual point of view, it was just not particularly new or interesting. No great revelations, no twists and turns. Everybody acted as expected. In general, the whole season felt a bit like it was just preparing for the next one, laying some groundwork for future developments (like what happens on Mars, activities of the OPA, the forthcoming colonization of the ring planets and so on). I'm expecting great things from the show and I'm beyond happy that it's around for at least one more season.
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Post by saandrig on Jan 21, 2020 13:00:44 GMT
I'm expecting great things from the show and I'm beyond happy that it's around for at least one more season. "Supernatural" enters the chat...
SN: Aren't you tired of repeating this shit for the last 10 seasons...ooops, sorry, wrong chat. Force of habit...
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