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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Jan 21, 2020 13:21:54 GMT
I'm expecting great things from the show and I'm beyond happy that it's around for at least one more season. "Supernatural" enters the chat... SN: Aren't you tired of repeating this shit for the last 10 seasons...ooops, sorry, wrong chat. Force of habit...
I never watched Supernatural, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Personally, I feel like The Expanse has enough interesting stories to tell for at least another season. Like I said, they did a good job in weaving some of the material in already, leaving clues here and there. The books deliver a lot of material too as I've gathered. That doesn't mean that I would want it to go on forever. More seasons to deliver a good plot with great characters: yes please. More seasons because yeah-we're-sure-we'll-come-up-with-somthing-and-we-still-have-a-solid-teenie-fanbase-and-our-main-characters-still-look-kinda-good: no thank you.
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Post by saandrig on Jan 21, 2020 13:36:33 GMT
I never watched Supernatural, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ More seasons because yeah-we're-sure-we'll-come-up-with-somthing-and-we-still-have-a-solid-teenie-fanbase-and-our-main-characters-still-look-kinda-good: no thank you. You said you never watched it. Then you sum it up. Lies
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Jan 21, 2020 13:49:56 GMT
I never watched Supernatural, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ More seasons because yeah-we're-sure-we'll-come-up-with-somthing-and-we-still-have-a-solid-teenie-fanbase-and-our-main-characters-still-look-kinda-good: no thank you. You said you never watched it. Then you sum it up. Lies To be fair, I tried to watch SN a few times ... but I totally chickened out. Horror's not my genre.
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Post by saandrig on Jan 21, 2020 14:27:58 GMT
You said you never watched it. Then you sum it up. Lies To be fair, I tried to watch SN a few times ... but I totally chickened out. Horror's not my genre. It's actually best when they do comedy. It's how I stumbled upon it in the first place. Caught an episode where they were trapped in a TV show loop, then later by chance saw another pretty funny one and had the impression that it's mostly a parody show. Turns out it's not that much of one, but it has plenty of hilarious moments. The Scooby Doo episode was worth more than the last 3-4 seasons combined.
On the Expanse - am I the only one who is slightly disappointed they didn't/couldn't get a Bobbie actress that looks like she is described in the books? Well, Game of Thrones got a break with Gwendoline Christie, but maybe that dried up the big girl acting talent pool (remember that Star Trek TNG episode where they gathered whatever tall women they could, acting talent be damned? Yikes). Don't get me wrong, Frankie Adams does a great job (she is tall, but probably about 30cm/1ft or so less than the book and not as bulky). While we talking bulky (sort of) - Gina Carano as Bobbie? Then again, she is not even at Frankie Adams's height.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 21, 2020 15:59:05 GMT
In general, the whole season felt a bit like it was just preparing for the next one, laying some groundwork for future developments (like what happens on Mars, activities of the OPA, the forthcoming colonization of the ring planets and so on). I'm expecting great things from the show and I'm beyond happy that it's around for at least one more season. Yea, That's a good point that season 4 feels a bit like a new setup. And it actually makes perfect sense, too. I am beyond happy that Amazon continued the series, no doubt there. However, I did say when I finished s3 that the end of s3 would actually have been a decent point to end the series. By this I meant that - even though there were definitely things left to do - it tied up most of the plot points and Holden's little VO speech was kinda like a wrap-up. With the ring gates now open, it was clear a new chapter was beginning for mankind.
In retrospect, it's no wonder they had to reset the board quite a bit in this season and it's probably a good thing they took their time doing it.
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Post by dazk on Jan 21, 2020 23:05:13 GMT
Finished season 4. This remains the best tv show out there at the moment and probably shares top spot on best scifi shows of all time with my good old ST;TNG. That said, I think season 4 was the weakest season so far. Full disclosure, I haven't read the books. While it was clear after the end of season 3, that we had to go through the rings to another solar system, the fact that the plot and cast was effectively separated in two very distant theaters that could barely interact with each other made the entire thing feel much more divided and less interactive than the previous seasons that concentrated on the Sol sytem or even the smaller ring space.
I didn't really mind much that the most of the Illum plotline took place planetside (I expected as much) and I think the alien-ness of the new world came across very well. However, there were several things I didn't like about this plotline, the most irritating being the villain. This dude was by far the weakest villain we've seen in The Expanse yet. Sure, Mao and Evenwright were narcissistic sociopathic assholes as well but they had proper motives and acted with some form of subtlety (for the most part at least). This guy (he annoyed me so much, I refused to remember his name) just comes across as a pure psychopath from the get-go and why anyone (especially Amos's girl, who generally seemed like a half way decent person) would follow him didn't really come across IMO. He seemed more like a paper cutout villain with a bunch of thugs. IMO, it didn't fit into the Expanse universe at all, where everyone has some motives so that at least they themselves can perceive their actions as good or at least necessary.
The Rocinante crew is ... well, consistent. I thought all of them were always a little too "good" since season 1 but hey, that's who they are I guess. While I get the comment from an earlier poster about Holden having a messiah complex on BioWare level, one has to admit, at least here, there is a somewhat logical progression to Holden's special nature. At least, he isn't "the chosen one" or anything. He is there because of the Miller visions, he has the Miller visions because the Protomolecule presumably knew though Miller's memories which it absorbed that Holden is a driven individual, an independent agent from the major powers and has his own ship. So logically it makes sense for Holden and crew to be in the centre of things here but yeah, sometimes all of them take it a bit far with the "I casually risk my life to help strangers" attitude. That's nothing new to season 4 though. The exception is of course Amos, who is probably actually my favorite character on the Roci crew. Miller was cool as always, both as the Investigator and as himself. Only him becoming that robot at the very end was a little strange there. I think I liked the Protomolecule somewhat better in seasons 1 and 2 when it was just this truely mysterious substance, not some angry entity that can't properly control it's own tech. but that kind of decline in wonder as one learns more and more about the mystery is a curse of any ongoing series I guess.
So in the end, I think agree with those that say that the Earth/Mars/Belter plot was the better one. The political struggles around the ring and its implication for mankind are both believable and interesting. And there are plenty of likable and interesting characters there. No matter who you may root for, at least here, you can understand all of their perspectives on things.
Someone above said that it was not properly made clear why Mars is in decline. I thought the cop-gone-criminal makes this perfectly clear in one of the later episodes. The reality of the ring and access to potentially inhabitable planets beyond makes the terraforming efforts on Mars kinda pointless. Why spend all the time and effort to terraform Mars if you can have access to viable planets with more resources immediately? So the young and bright minds will leave sooner rather than later and thus Mars is doomed to become a backwater world where only the unfortunate ones that didn't make it off in time will be left behind. It's a pretty believable scenario and it's great to see Boby struggle with this realization over time.
Avasarala was cool as always, though I was shocked that they simply recast her husband. I like the actor in season 1 better I think, he came across as kinder, which was a nice contrast to her badass uncompromising nature. But I assume they didn't have a choice there.
Shame about Ashford. He quickly became a favorite of mine in season 3 and even more so in s4. Overall, I think the portrayal of the Belters as both victims ans criminals is one of the huge strengths of The Expanse and it looks like they are keeping this up nicely.
On that note, while I think s4 could not quite hold the candle to 1-3, I am really looking forward to s5. After 3 seasons of solid 10/10 I'll still give 8.5 toxic water slugs to this one. I am hoping we'll get another 2 seasons or so after that and that they will than end the series with a bang. I'd hate for it to just fade into repetitive BS at some point, like e.g. 24 did. Better to give us some more great storylines and then wrap it up nicely eventually. P.S.: Oh, Visually and technically, this season was beyond awesome yet again. No complaints there as always. An excellent review; and one that almost totally reflects my own opinion. I really enjoyed the season although I have to say that I was not so invested in the plot or the characters as I've been in previous seasons. Best storylines for me were ... ... the plot around Bobbie and Mars in general. What happens on the planet is perfectly woven into Draper's subplot and her development was super relatable. "Something's rotten on Mars" - hell yeah it is. To be fair, I had no real idea about the direction her plot was evolving into but the later episodes perfectly explained everything. Super excited about what's to come here. ... Avasarala and the election. The scenes were smartly chosen, you can feel her sliding deeper into the political abyss with every carefully picked scene. Great acting on all parts there! ... Ashford. *le sigh* The way his character was being fleshed out from season to season was brilliant. He was one of the characters I didn't much care for in the beginning and quickly evolved into one of my favourites. It takes some time to understand what makes him act the way he does ... a pity we won't be seeing him any more. What happens on the planet was a bit generic for my taste, there was no real development there for any character. It wasn't bad at all, there was some nice action and obviously everything looked stunning from a visual point of view, it was just not particularly new or interesting. No great revelations, no twists and turns. Everybody acted as expected. In general, the whole season felt a bit like it was just preparing for the next one, laying some groundwork for future developments (like what happens on Mars, activities of the OPA, the forthcoming colonization of the ring planets and so on). I'm expecting great things from the show and I'm beyond happy that it's around for at least one more season. I am still not happy with Ashford, in the books he was a small part and they subbed him in for a character they dropped and whilst Drummer grew on me she is the in the same boat, except she is a main character in the books that also took on the role of another main character. Basically her actions at the end of season 4 will allow the show to not have her character disappear for a few books so it makes sense but still I really liked the other character she merged with and will miss her in the next few seasons. Re your comments re Bobbie, I didn't like how they have completely changed her story on MARS and made her do stuff very much outside her beliefs and character, they basically dropped her book story (which showed her strong familial ties and her loyalty and instead made her a criminal) and gave her part of another character in book 5's story who is important. And for that character those acts are an important part of his actions later on and a decision he makes. SO I hope the screen writers have not painted themselves into a corner. The on planet stuff was an important part of the story for Amos character development but it was shortened and lessened it IMO. Naomi's character development was also stunted (and Alex's to a lesser extent) by changing her story and role from the books as well. HAVING SAID ALL that, it was still a good series.
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Post by dazk on Jan 21, 2020 23:07:07 GMT
I'm expecting great things from the show and I'm beyond happy that it's around for at least one more season. "Supernatural" enters the chat...
SN: Aren't you tired of repeating this shit for the last 10 seasons...ooops, sorry, wrong chat. Force of habit...
LOL gave up on Supernatural at around season 8 or 9, it had just become ridiculous. The hope is that with The Expanse that there are books to follow, to keep the shows writers on track. Was SN based on books?
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Post by SwobyJ on Jan 25, 2020 5:06:30 GMT
There is material for not just 4-5, nor 6-7, but potentially 8-9 seasons.
Whether this is good material depends on your view of the novels, and the show's design as it continues, but there's still 1-2 more seasons to cover the current larger arc and then there's a potential final arc that can be done in multiple (2-3) seasons..
(And for all we know, there could be a follow-up book/series that continues The Expanse setting, but that's another matter of speculation.)
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Post by docsteely on Feb 5, 2020 0:24:57 GMT
"Supernatural" enters the chat...
SN: Aren't you tired of repeating this shit for the last 10 seasons...ooops, sorry, wrong chat. Force of habit...
LOL gave up on Supernatural at around season 8 or 9, it had just become ridiculous.
The hope is that with The Expanse that there are books to follow, to keep the shows writers on track. Was SN based on books? For me it was after season 5 ... And no, while there are SN books, the show is not based on them afaik.
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Post by docsteely on Feb 5, 2020 23:17:28 GMT
So I just finished watching for the second time Season 2. I have not watched season 4, but I can say without any doubt that this is one of thy best Sci-Fi seasons I've ever watched. There are two series of books it reminds me of: Dune and the Mars trilogy, especially because of the depth of the political plot. Miller remains my favorite character, but I also loved Avasarala, Amos and Bobbie. Also a high mark for Ted Atherton as Strickland, because it's never easy to play a monster... Moments I enjoyed the most: - Miller's trek on Eros, with him reaching Julie was exactly as I imagined it; - Bobbie and the Ocean; - The Somnambulist's escape from Ganymede; - Solomon Epstein's story...
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Post by dazk on Feb 5, 2020 23:52:03 GMT
So I just finished watching for the second time Season 2. I have not watched season 4, but I can say without any doubt that this is one of thy best Sci-Fi seasons I've ever watched. There are two series of books it reminds me of: Dune and the Mars trilogy, especially because of the depth of the political plot. Miller remains my favorite character, but I also loved Avasarala, Amos and Bobbie. Also a high mark for Ted Atherton as Strickland, because it's never easy to play a monster... Moments I enjoyed the most: - Miller's trek on Eros, with him reaching Julie was exactly as I imagined it; - Bobbie and the Ocean; - The Somnambulist's escape from Ganymede; - Solomon Epstein's story... It's a real cracker of a season, I think season 2 and 3 are both great. Season 1 only suffers for it's need to build background and story. Season 4 was good but having read the books, the seasons departure from book 4 really let it down I think.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 23, 2020 16:13:53 GMT
I am currently reading Leviathan Wakes and am about half way through (The lock-down on Eros just happened). Having seen the show, I came in with very high expectations. The main reason I am reading it is to see the differences to the show and to get a little more insight into the character's inner thoughts.
I have to say, it's not as fulfilling as I hoped it would be. First and foremost, I really miss the Earth scenes from the show. They gave such a great sense of the political drama that is happening, much better than just describing it through Holden's and Miller's eyes. As for gaining new insight into the characters, there is not so much more to be found in the book, whenever they think something, it's pretty much what I would have expected, which I guess is a compliment to the tv show for great characterization.
I was also hoping for a bit more background nerd-explanations on some of the astrophysics but the book never really goes beyond fairly straight forward descriptions of what's actually happening to the characters.
Finally, I think most of the plot changes in the tv show so far (aka season 1) are actually improvements IMO (like the assault on Havelock or Miller actually figuring things out about the Anubis himself, etc.). They increase tension and pull the characters together a little more. Usually, tv shows never quite get to the level of the books they are adapted from but in this instance, dare I say, the tv show actually improves on some stuff. Don't get me wrong, the book is great, just saying what they did with the adaptation is dam impressive.
*runs for cover from the book-fans*
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Post by docsteely on Feb 23, 2020 17:00:38 GMT
I am currently reading Leviathan Wakes and am about half way through (The lock-down on Eros just happened). Having seen the show, I came in with very high expectations. The main reason I am reading it is to see the differences to the show and to get a little more insight into the character's inner thoughts. I have to say, it's not as fulfilling as I hoped it would be. First and foremost, I really miss the Earth scenes from the show. They gave such a great sense of the political drama that is happening, much better than just describing it through Holden's and Miller's eyes. As for gaining new insight into the characters, there is not so much more to be found in the book, whenever they think something, it's pretty much what I would have expected, which I guess is a compliment to the tv show for great characterization. I was also hoping for a bit more background nerd-explanations on some of the astrophysics but the book never really goes beyond fairly straight forward descriptions. Finally, I think most of the plot changes in the tv show so far (aka season 1) are actually improvements IMO (like the assault on Havelock or Miller actually figuring things out about the Anubis himself, etc.). They increase tension and pull the characters together a little more. Usually, tv shows never quite get to the level of the books they are adapted from but in this instance, dare I say, the tv show actually improves on some stuff. Don't get me wrong, the book is great, just saying what they did with the adaptation is dam impressive. * runs for cover from the book-fans* Do not forget that both authors (Daniel Abraham + Ty Franck = James Corey) are part of the team of screenwriters of the show, so while there are changes (and some of them not as good as the Earth scenes in season I imo -i.e. Naomi's role, Bull, etc. ) you can be sure the overall feel is the same. I am well into the third book and I love it...
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Post by dazk on Feb 23, 2020 22:59:18 GMT
I am currently reading Leviathan Wakes and am about half way through (The lock-down on Eros just happened). Having seen the show, I came in with very high expectations. The main reason I am reading it is to see the differences to the show and to get a little more insight into the character's inner thoughts. I have to say, it's not as fulfilling as I hoped it would be. First and foremost, I really miss the Earth scenes from the show. They gave such a great sense of the political drama that is happening, much better than just describing it through Holden's and Miller's eyes. As for gaining new insight into the characters, there is not so much more to be found in the book, whenever they think something, it's pretty much what I would have expected, which I guess is a compliment to the tv show for great characterization. I was also hoping for a bit more background nerd-explanations on some of the astrophysics but the book never really goes beyond fairly straight forward descriptions of what's actually happening to the characters. Finally, I think most of the plot changes in the tv show so far (aka season 1) are actually improvements IMO (like the assault on Havelock or Miller actually figuring things out about the Anubis himself, etc.). They increase tension and pull the characters together a little more. Usually, tv shows never quite get to the level of the books they are adapted from but in this instance, dare I say, the tv show actually improves on some stuff. Don't get me wrong, the book is great, just saying what they did with the adaptation is dam impressive. *runs for cover from the book-fans* Book 1 is good but the changes you are identifying like the Havelock example often manifest later in the series. Series four is very different to the book because of said Havelock change and I think book 1 to 3 gets progressively better with book one really just setting the table for the politics and mainly focusing on the Roci crew and Mars. Also the internal monologues become more prevalent in later books and I agree the TV Show does improve some stuff.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 2, 2020 17:55:55 GMT
So I've finished S4 and have some spoilery thoughts. I kinda miss they never went to another planet, but then it was just a 10 episodes season so I guess they wanted to focus in just one for now. That's fine. I felt Murtry was a bit of a let down, just a bad guy for Amos to fight against. Amos was hilarious through the whole season though The Mars developments are definitely very interesting, and I'm eager to see how the planet keeps developing this kinda new plot with the black market. I'm really sad about Ashford, he was turning into one of my favorite characters. Which was really cool because I always had the feeling he had like a hidden agenda or he was full terrorist mode in disguise like most of the OPA. Which puts in perspective Drummer, I feel her character is a bit confused about things now, like voting to let Marco go, at times it feels like she's changing sides. I wonder if Ashford death is gonna haunt her now... Naomi and her pro belter thinking is starting to annoy me a bit honestly. Like I get it, it's her people, but she's a bit hypocritical. If a belter does something wrong it's fine, but if someone else does it, then it's not. A nitpick I was having also is how no one seems to wear any kind of body armor? When the Earth marines board the ship (cannot remember the name) and they just all get killed by random shots, it seems trashy, like their training is ass, and why they don't wear any kind of protection? As far as I've seen, small arms in this universe are just chemical-ballistic based, bullet proof vest should still apply. Something I don't buy because special forces are special forces, they are no joke. I don't expect "space marines" to be worse. Personally on a boarding sequence I'd just tie everyone I find with hands behind their back, mouths on the floor no matter if it's woman or children, I wouldn't let people hang around whilst I'm trying to clear rooms.
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Post by dazk on Mar 2, 2020 20:48:45 GMT
So I've finished S4 and have some spoilery thoughts. I kinda miss they never went to another planet, but then it was just a 10 episodes season so I guess they wanted to focus in just one for now. That's fine. I felt Murtry was a bit of a let down, just a bad guy for Amos to fight against. Amos was hilarious through the whole season though The Mars developments are definitely very interesting, and I'm eager to see how the planet keeps developing this kinda new plot with the black market. I'm really sad about Ashford, he was turning into one of my favorite characters. Which was really cool because I always had the feeling he had like a hidden agenda or he was full terrorist mode in disguise like most of the OPA. Which puts in perspective Drummer, I feel her character is a bit confused about things now, like voting to let Marco go, at times it feels like she's changing sides. I wonder if Ashford death is gonna haunt her now... Naomi and her pro belter thinking is starting to annoy me a bit honestly. Like I get it, it's her people, but she's a bit hypocritical. If a belter does something wrong it's fine, but if someone else does it, then it's not. A nitpick I was having also is how no one seems to wear any kind of body armor? When the Earth marines board the ship (cannot remember the name) and they just all get killed by random shots, it seems trashy, like their training is ass, and why they don't wear any kind of protection? As far as I've seen, small arms in this universe are just chemical-ballistic based, bullet proof vest should still apply. Something I don't buy because special forces are special forces, they are no joke. I don't expect "space marines" to be worse. Personally on a boarding sequence I'd just tie everyone I find with hands behind their back, mouths on the floor no matter if it's woman or children, I wouldn't let people hang around whilst I'm trying to clear rooms. Series 4 suffered the most from changes to earlier seasons and is different to the book which was one of my favourites. Murtry and Amos's and Holden's as wells parts in the show were reduced and lost a lot of the tension and nuance that is the book which was a real shame. With Ashford, he gained from the decision to reduce the number of characters in the show keeping his very minor part and substituting for a main character in Book 3. This is a decision I really hated as Bull was a better character and his role which was as an Earther OPA person was I thought a more nuanced role in Book 3. Like Drummer who plays a minor role until near the end of the books and who replaced a character called Michio Pa, I think the show made a mistake doing this. Naomi also plays a very different role in book 4 and changing this I thought was the biggest detriment to season 4 of the show, the books handle her character and its flaws and development with more subtlety I think. It also made Alex virtually redundant in this season. I don't remember the scene with the Marines you are referencing, can you spoiler me some more detail?
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 2, 2020 21:21:16 GMT
I don't remember the scene with the Marines you are referencing, can you spoiler me some more detail? It's Marco Inaros doing. He hijacks an Earth ship (I'm not certain what it was, but I think it was a civilian ship). The ship was claimed to be dismantled, yet suddenly reappears with collision course near Earth claiming it has civilians inside and their coms are not working properly. Marco is not on the ship obviously, but Avasarala has to choose whether to shoot down the ship or send a boarding party. She chooses the later and safer option in case there're civilians, but it's a trap and the soldiers get all killed. Suddenly one of Earth's generals also resigns because he blames it on her. Another dumb plot imo, since the boarding decision doesn't seem like a bad option, and the general never suggests otherwise either. It's all during the political plot between her and the other chick to run for Earth's Prime minister or whatever the name is for "supreme president of all Earthers". ___ I mentioned this in the past, but if I ever see the books on any book store, I'm gonna get them. Even though I love the show, you clearly get the better of it by reading the books.
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Post by dazk on Mar 2, 2020 22:34:47 GMT
I don't remember the scene with the Marines you are referencing, can you spoiler me some more detail? It's Marco Inaros doing. He hijacks an Earth ship (I'm not certain what it was, but I think it was a civilian ship). The ship was claimed to be dismantled, yet suddenly reappears with collision course near Earth claiming it has civilians inside and their coms are not working properly. Marco is not on the ship obviously, but Avasarala has to choose whether to shoot down the ship or send a boarding party. She chooses the later and safer option in case there're civilians, but it's a trap and the soldiers get all killed. Suddenly one of Earth's generals also resigns because he blames it on her. Another dumb plot imo, since the boarding decision doesn't seem like a bad option, and the general never suggests otherwise either. It's all during the political plot between her and the other chick to run for Earth's Prime minister or whatever the name is for "supreme president of all Earthers". ___ I mentioned this in the past, but if I ever see the books on any book store, I'm gonna get them. Even though I love the show, you clearly get the better of it by reading the books. Ah yes I remember now, I can't 100% remember how that plays out in the book but yeah I do remember them being shot up pretty easily in the show and IIRC there are Armour piercing rounds in The Expanse Universe so maybe that was what were being used. That decision by the General made no sense as you mention, there was an initial meeting where he put it forward as an option for Avasarala and never qualifies his preferred option. In the books there is some intrigue within the highest ranks of the military, especially the Navy but I can't remember if it spills into the Marines or not. I do remember thinking there were some odd things that happened in the political machinations when Avasarala was running for Governor General of The UN (I think that's the head role) in the book but I couldn't remember how much it changed in the show. The problem is the timelines of the books have been changed in the show.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 3, 2020 3:57:06 GMT
Still reading book 1, almost at the end now. It certainly has some more in-depth stuff that it goes further into details now (like the Holden-Naomi relationship and also Miller's inner thoughts). A few noteworthy changes to the series, I noticed, are kinda interesting: - So Miller is actually full-on suicidal in the book, when he stays on Eros. In the series, he kinda had to stay, right? Not sure what way I like it better. - I do like the trick they pull with activating the Belter ships transponders when they can't keep up with Eros anymore. I guess there was no time for it in the show because IIRC, they just kept paintign it with their laser there. - The description of the Nauvoo's drive ploom, basically being like a second sun as it approaches Eros is very cool. They definitely toned it down to more scifi standard conventions in the tv show. But then, if they wouldn't, we'd basically never see the ships themselves but just flaring lights on screens. - That made me think actually, I don't remember if it is ever explained in the show but IIRC, they just say that they salvaged the Nauvoo and that's it. But in the book, it sounds like the ship is going super fast and basically cannot be turned (and thus also not really slowed down) easily. I wonder how they got it back to manageable speeds than. Hope that will be addressed in the later books, when it comes back as the Behemoth. - Couple of cool chuckle moments for sure. Like when the ship get slugged and Holden's first thought after seeing that nothing critical was damaged is "Oh shit, the coffee maker!". I can definitely sympathize. I had this long lasting Idea for writing a Mass Effect fan fiction. My protagonist was supposed to be a bit of a coffee addict and one of the recurring features about him was supposed to be that he takes his mug everywhere (including the ships CIC, etc.). Guess I can forget about that as a novel idea for a scifi hero. Anyway, still a fun read.
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Post by dazk on Mar 3, 2020 4:32:11 GMT
Still reading book 1, almost at the end now. It certainly has some more in-depth stuff that it goes further into details now (like the Holden-Naomi relationship and also Miller's inner thoughts). A few noteworthy changes to the series, I noticed, are kinda interesting: - So Miller is actually full-on suicidal in the book, when he stays on Eros. In the series, he kinda had to stay, right? Not sure what way I like it better. - I do like the trick they pull with activating the Belter ships transponders when they can't keep up with Eros anymore. I guess there was no time for it in the show because IIRC, they just kept paintign it with their laser there. - The description of the Nauvoo's drive ploom, basically being like a second sun as it approaches Eros is very cool. They definitely toned it down to more scifi standard conventions in the tv show. But then, if they wouldn't, we'd basically never see the ships themselves but just flaring lights on screens. - That made me think actually, I don't remember if it is ever explained in the show but IIRC, they just say that they salvaged the Nauvoo and that's it. But in the book, it sounds like the ship is going super fast and basically cannot be turned (and thus also not really slowed down) easily. I wonder how they got it back to manageable speeds than. Hope that will be addressed in the later books, when it comes back as the Behemoth. - Couple of cool chuckle moments for sure. Like when the ship get slugged and Holden's first thought after seeing that nothing critical was damaged is "Oh shit, the coffee maker!". I can definitely sympathize. I had this long lasting Idea for writing a Mass Effect fan fiction. My protagonist was supposed to be a bit of a coffee addict and one of the recurring features about him was supposed to be that he takes his mug everywhere (including the ships CIC, etc.). Guess I can forget about that as a novel idea for a scifi hero. Anyway, still a fun read. Re your spoilers, Not sure he was suicidal but very disillusioned and disappointed, then the Julie Mao stuff intrigues him and hooks him in.
I think they do explain how they get it back later in a conversation but not sure.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 3, 2020 12:03:58 GMT
Still reading book 1, almost at the end now. It certainly has some more in-depth stuff that it goes further into details now (like the Holden-Naomi relationship and also Miller's inner thoughts). A few noteworthy changes to the series, I noticed, are kinda interesting: - So Miller is actually full-on suicidal in the book, when he stays on Eros. In the series, he kinda had to stay, right? Not sure what way I like it better. - I do like the trick they pull with activating the Belter ships transponders when they can't keep up with Eros anymore. I guess there was no time for it in the show because IIRC, they just kept paintign it with their laser there. - The description of the Nauvoo's drive ploom, basically being like a second sun as it approaches Eros is very cool. They definitely toned it down to more scifi standard conventions in the tv show. But then, if they wouldn't, we'd basically never see the ships themselves but just flaring lights on screens. - That made me think actually, I don't remember if it is ever explained in the show but IIRC, they just say that they salvaged the Nauvoo and that's it. But in the book, it sounds like the ship is going super fast and basically cannot be turned (and thus also not really slowed down) easily. I wonder how they got it back to manageable speeds than. Hope that will be addressed in the later books, when it comes back as the Behemoth. - Couple of cool chuckle moments for sure. Like when the ship get slugged and Holden's first thought after seeing that nothing critical was damaged is "Oh shit, the coffee maker!". I can definitely sympathize. I had this long lasting Idea for writing a Mass Effect fan fiction. My protagonist was supposed to be a bit of a coffee addict and one of the recurring features about him was supposed to be that he takes his mug everywhere (including the ships CIC, etc.). Guess I can forget about that as a novel idea for a scifi hero. Anyway, still a fun read. Re your spoilers, Not sure he was suicidal but very disillusioned and disappointed, then the Julie Mao stuff intrigues him and hooks him in.
I think they do explain how they get it back later in a conversation but not sure. Oh he was definitely suicidal. I mean, when Diogo leaves and the Nauvoo is approaching, he stays behind without any need whatsoever. The only reason he had was because he was done with life and was ok with dying right then and there. It even has some build-up in the book, where he thinks about suicide before (while on Tycho) but figures he's not there yet. Diogo and him even part with the words "buena morte" - "have a nice death". In the show, the bomb is broken and he has to stay in order to keep it from going off too early. This is not the case in the book. There, the dead man switch is intentionally rigged up that way by Naomi and Miller, in case the Protomolecule incapacitates him without him having a chance to set it off manually. But this only happens after the Nauvoo missed. Before that, Miller just sits around waiting for the Nauvoo to impact, basically on his head. If that's not attempted suicide, I don't know what is. EDIT: Just realized, I may have misunderstood your response. I am not saying he was suicidal from the start. Only that he is when he returns to Eros with the Belters. In the show, you could make the argument that he nobly sacrificed himself to let the others get away because the bomb trigger was broken. Sure, there is a sense that he was ok with dying but I didn't get the impression that he set out to do so, it just came together that way. In the book, wanting to die on Eros is his only reason for staying.
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Post by dazk on Mar 4, 2020 1:54:04 GMT
Re your spoilers, Not sure he was suicidal but very disillusioned and disappointed, then the Julie Mao stuff intrigues him and hooks him in.
I think they do explain how they get it back later in a conversation but not sure. Oh he was definitely suicidal. I mean, when Diogo leaves and the Nauvoo is approaching, he stays behind without any need whatsoever. The only reason he had was because he was done with life and was ok with dying right then and there. It even has some build-up in the book, where he thinks about suicide before (while on Tycho) but figures he's not there yet. Diogo and him even part with the words "buena morte" - "have a nice death". In the show, the bomb is broken and he has to stay in order to keep it from going off too early. This is not the case in the book. There, the dead man switch is intentionally rigged up that way by Naomi and Miller, in case the Protomolecule incapacitates him without him having a chance to set it off manually. But this only happens after the Nauvoo missed. Before that, Miller just sits around waiting for the Nauvoo to impact, basically on his head. If that's not attempted suicide, I don't know what is. EDIT: Just realized, I may have misunderstood your response. I am not saying he was suicidal from the start. Only that he is when he returns to Eros with the Belters. In the show, you could make the argument that he nobly sacrificed himself to let the others get away because the bomb trigger was broken. Sure, there is a sense that he was ok with dying but I didn't get the impression that he set out to do so, it just came together that way. In the book, wanting to die on Eros is his only reason for staying. Re the difference re the book and the show re the bomb, not sure I agree about the reasoning. The fail safe was a practical thing, I didn't read anything into it being accepted byMiller for any other reason than that.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 4, 2020 16:30:32 GMT
I just finished reading book 7 Now, the next story arc of the books should provide for 2-3 seasons of the show and the final three books will be another. I don’t think this is a real spoiler, but... There is a 30 year time skip after the next story arc, before what looks like the final story arc of the series.
This is probably presumptive, but assuming the show gets that far: how do you think the show will handle such a big time jump despite featuring the same characters
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2020 16:38:30 GMT
I just finished reading book 7 Now, the next story arc of the books should provide for 2-3 seasons of the show and the final three books will be another. I don’t think this is a real spoiler, but... There is a 30 year time skip after the next story arc, before what looks like the final story arc of the series.
This is probably presumptive, but assuming the show gets that far: how do you think the show will handle such a big time jump despite featuring the same characters Hopefully they don’t, since after the time skip my favorite character dies.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 4, 2020 17:32:19 GMT
Oh he was definitely suicidal. I mean, when Diogo leaves and the Nauvoo is approaching, he stays behind without any need whatsoever. The only reason he had was because he was done with life and was ok with dying right then and there. It even has some build-up in the book, where he thinks about suicide before (while on Tycho) but figures he's not there yet. Diogo and him even part with the words "buena morte" - "have a nice death". In the show, the bomb is broken and he has to stay in order to keep it from going off too early. This is not the case in the book. There, the dead man switch is intentionally rigged up that way by Naomi and Miller, in case the Protomolecule incapacitates him without him having a chance to set it off manually. But this only happens after the Nauvoo missed. Before that, Miller just sits around waiting for the Nauvoo to impact, basically on his head. If that's not attempted suicide, I don't know what is. EDIT: Just realized, I may have misunderstood your response. I am not saying he was suicidal from the start. Only that he is when he returns to Eros with the Belters. In the show, you could make the argument that he nobly sacrificed himself to let the others get away because the bomb trigger was broken. Sure, there is a sense that he was ok with dying but I didn't get the impression that he set out to do so, it just came together that way. In the book, wanting to die on Eros is his only reason for staying. Re the difference re the book and the show re the bomb, not sure I agree about the reasoning. The fail safe was a practical thing, I didn't read anything into it being accepted byMiller for any other reason than that. Finished the book. The point we were discussing about Miller actually turns out not to be entirely trivial in the book. The fail safe is not part of his suicide attempt. They only rig that up after the Nauvoo missed Eros (in the book). The suicide attempt was that Miller chose to stay on Eros when the Nauvoo was still on it's way to hit it without having any reason to stay (other than wanting to die). That's the difference between the series and the book, as far as I am concerned: - TV show: Nauvoo is on its way -> bomb breaks -> someone has to stay behind in order to prevent the bomb from going off while the others get away -> Miller stays and saves Diogo and the others in the process -> Nauvoo misses. - Book: Nauvoo is on its way -> Bomb teams deploy bombs without issues -> Miller still chooses to stay behind when the others leave, although at that point, there is nothing more to do there -> Nauvoo misses -> Miller gets in contact with the Roci and Naomi helps him rig up the fail safe. The crucial difference is in the timeline of events. In the show, him staying is a sacrifice to protect others, in the book, it's just a suicide attempt.
Interestingly, the fact that Miller wasn't really a noble self-sacrificial hero is an important point in the book and the epilogue with the conversation between Holden and Fred Johnson couldn't have happened if events occurred like they did in the show. Johnson wants to paint a picture of Miller as the heroic belter who sacrificed himself for the good of everyone in the system in his upcoming speech. He fully acknowledges that this is a fabrication and that Miller was in fact a suicidal ex-cop (he even uses those exact words). Holden makes the point that this kind of fabrication - the fact that people are not seen or described as who they are but are described in a way to fit an agenda - is exactly what got them into this mess. It's why the war started in the first place because people took the incomplete information Holden put out in his messages to further their agend (war in most cases). Protegen and Dresden were able to view people as statistics without considering individuals, which enabled them to callously throw away lives for their experiments. And now Johnson uses Miller's story for his agenda, even though he is fully aware that Miller didn't stay on Eros to save anyone or to be a hero. He stayed because he became so screwed up over his obsession with Julie that when she was lost to him, so was he. The fact that in the end, that did put him into a position to save everyone was not predicted by anyone, least of all him. Of course, there are still strong hints about this in the show but still, I feel that point gets watered down a little by the fact that Miller - in the tv show - had a noble reason to stay on Eros in the first place. But hey, that is exactly why I wanted to read the book in the first place. I always find it interesting to see those little differences which can still somewhat change the focus of a story. Would be super interesting to here the authors thoughts on this IMO.
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