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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 21, 2024 14:22:25 GMT
I've been pondering about his extra passenger. I think I lack imagination but I can't think of an emotion or virtue that corresponds to you-know-what (I can't put in spoilers on my phone, sorry) Pity, Empathy, Mercy. Something along those lines. There isn't always a direct antonym in the types of spirit/demon we are presented with in game. After all, according to Solas Desire is just perverted Purpose, which is definitely not how the desire demons came across in DAO and DA2. Meanwhile, Imshael was insistent that he wasn't a Desire Demon but a Choice Spirit. He definitely seemed focused on people making a choice and was even happy to leave Mihris when she made the choice to avoid death rather than die trying to achieve her goal, which is why she allowed him to possess her in the first place. Also, if Cole started out as a spirit of compassion, what exactly did he turn into when he was "mercy killing" and what did he become when he murdered Lambert? Then why was he still a Spirit of Compassion in DAI when he was an assassin? So, spirits/demons are not as easy to fathom as they were originally presented.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 21, 2024 14:33:30 GMT
I'm gonna speculate that Lucanis condition is a side effect/punishment gone wrong. I think Zara wanted to just make him a full abomination to control, not different than what the Coripheus's agent did to the gray wardens in Inquisition. Either something went wrong with the ritual, or Lucanis was able to fight back (at least in part) the binding. Maybe a mix of being aware of the ritual done on him, and his magic sensitivity? I hope we don't get the Anders treatment anyway. Well I do know that one of the clips I saw has Lucanis mentioning that they have the vial with his blood through which they can control him, so it has to be destroyed. Ah now, so that is interesting. So, that suggests at least one possible solution. I have to admit the whole Lucanis aspect is becoming one of the chief draws for me. It is not simply the idea of romancing him but the whole package with the possible ramifications and potential sub-plots. I think they wanted to really explore the spirit possession aspect in a way they haven't done so before. DA2 was a very rushed project and so the Anders/Justice relationship suffered to some extent as well because it left a lot of unanswered questions about how the whole thing worked. It looks like they have gone into much more depth this time round and considered all aspects. Probably why they say that Lucanis is probably the character that had the most work done on him and his plot underwent several changes in order to bring out all the aspects of his character.
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Post by merane on Sept 21, 2024 14:37:46 GMT
It's really convenient, I agree, not having to dig through 150 different videos.
I think I'm right to choose Lucanis as my first romance even if I'm going to end up with a heart attack before the end Well, look at it this way, it can't possibly be worst than how Solas turned out could it? I'm torn personally. The sort of antics that Spite is pulling were exactly the reason I pulled back from Anders after his threat against Ella in DA2. I want to give Lucanis some love but that demon is definitely giving me some pause for thought. However, I suppose it depends on what aspects of the relationship Spite feeds on. It could end up a reprise of Fenris and him walking out on you straight after sex, because Spite is messing with his head. Thankfully, given the high stakes in Veilguard I don't think we will have to wait 2 years for a reconciliation. There is also just an outside chance that a supportive friend/lover Rook could actually turn the demon back into something more benign, like pity or empathy. After all Anders claimed it was his negative emotions that twisted Justice into Vengeance, so it would cool if by bringing out positive emotions in Lucanis this would change Spite back into a benign spirit. I totally understand the hesitation but I don't think they'll do another Anders. The character has been really polarizing and I don't think they'd want to go in that direction again. I personally loved my romance with Anders in DA2 but I wouldn't want another Anders. One is enough and it would be redundant.
I really like your idea about Rook's behavior influencing Spite and Fenris would be a good inspiration indeed. I think it could be an interesting story to tell, how people's behavior influences spirits/demons and would echo Solas's discussions about spirits. And in general how we perceive people and acting towards them will unconsciously influence them. It would also be a good way to have Rook have an influence on the fate of Lucanis without taking away his own agency and choices.
Having a new and different possession story might also give us new insights into the spirits/demons/inhabitants of the Fade.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 21, 2024 14:43:48 GMT
Re Lucanis' unique thing... (may as well put it in a spoiler box just in case) Is Zach Mendez doing Spite's voice too? Must have been fun doing 2 different characters/accents that are meant to be the same person. I was wondering this too! Mendez seems to be doing a lot in Veilguard so it seems likely, I think it was mentioned he voiced Warden Antoine but it wasn't certain if they'd keep his voice for that. The thing is he doesn't naturally speak with an accent in the Q&A session but he is able to do a convincing accent for Lucanis, so it is possible he suppressed his own natural accent when he became an actor. So, he has plenty of range and could do other minor roles without it being apparent it was the same person. As for the specific Lucanis role and Spite, he did say it was likely to be the coolest character he ever got to play. Having to do both aspects of him was probably part of it.
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Post by merane on Sept 21, 2024 14:49:58 GMT
Well I do know that one of the clips I saw has Lucanis mentioning that they have the vial with his blood through which they can control him, so it has to be destroyed. Ah now, so that is interesting. So, that suggests at least one possible solution. I have to admit the whole Lucanis aspect is becoming one of the chief draws for me. It is not simply the idea of romancing him but the whole package with the possible ramifications and potential sub-plots. I think they wanted to really explore the spirit possession aspect in a way they haven't done so before. DA2 was a very rushed project and so the Anders/Justice relationship suffered to some extent as well because it left a lot of unanswered questions about how the whole thing worked. It looks like they have gone into much more depth this time round and considered all aspects. Probably why they say that Lucanis is probably the character that had the most work done on him and his plot underwent several changes in order to bring out all the aspects of his character. I agree, romancing Lucanis is more than just his romance, his story seems complex.
And then let's not forget that Caterina Dellamorte is going to be kidnapped and Lucanis is supposed to be the heir. There's more than just this spirit thing, there's going to be a whole plot around the Dellamorte family legacy and who is responsible for what happened to Lucanis and why.
Lucanis also has a down to earth view of what it means to be a Crow and he's not interested in being the heir. I wonder if we can push him to be one or not, depending on our choices.
Lucanis/Spite being a superior version of the story they wanted to tell about Anders/Justice is totally possible, without making a repeat.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 21, 2024 14:51:22 GMT
Well, look at it this way, it can't possibly be worst than how Solas turned out could it? I'm torn personally. The sort of antics that Spite is pulling were exactly the reason I pulled back from Anders after his threat against Ella in DA2. I want to give Lucanis some love but that demon is definitely giving me some pause for thought. However, I suppose it depends on what aspects of the relationship Spite feeds on. It could end up a reprise of Fenris and him walking out on you straight after sex, because Spite is messing with his head. Thankfully, given the high stakes in Veilguard I don't think we will have to wait 2 years for a reconciliation. There is also just an outside chance that a supportive friend/lover Rook could actually turn the demon back into something more benign, like pity or empathy. After all Anders claimed it was his negative emotions that twisted Justice into Vengeance, so it would cool if by bringing out positive emotions in Lucanis this would change Spite back into a benign spirit. I totally understand the hesitation but I don't think they'll do another Anders. The character has been really polarizing and I don't think they'd want to go in that direction again. I personally loved my romance with Anders in DA2 but I wouldn't want another Anders. One is enough and it would be redundant.
I really like your idea about Rook's behavior influencing Spite and Fenris would be a good inspiration indeed. I think it could be an interesting story to tell, how people's behavior influences spirits/demons and would echo Solas's discussions about spirits. And in general how we perceive people and acting towards them will unconsciously influence them. It would also be a good way to have Rook have an influence on the fate of Lucanis without taking away his own agency and choices.
Having a new and different possession story might also give us new insights into the spirits/demons/inhabitants of the Fade. I'm just hoping that the heartbreaking decision Corinne referred to a while back in one of her interviews doesn't relate to Lucanis.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 21, 2024 19:02:44 GMT
Big Spoiler beware It sounds like Lucanis might have been betrayed. If memory serves there was some shenanigans about who's going to be the next Crows Queen. And Lucanis was the next heir ? Probably someone sold him out. Reddit is betting on the cousin. Viago! Really say looking forward to a lot of the agent characters between Viago/ Teia and Antoine and Evka. Also re reading Eight Little Talons right now so getting familiarized with how awesome that pair was. Love them also. Two of my favorite stories in TN, alongside Wigmaker’s and Minrathous.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 21, 2024 23:16:05 GMT
Hm. We should open like a detective agency together, all of us. We're f*cking awesome.
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Post by Liepsnele on Sept 22, 2024 4:34:38 GMT
I'm too scared to open the replies marked as spoilers especially since Reznore prefaced with a "Big spoiler". I can only hope you guys are having fun
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Post by TabithaTH on Sept 22, 2024 8:47:06 GMT
Big Spoilers, but mostly things we've already seen here and there. Kala Elizabeth posted a video with some of the scene from first meeting Lucanis. Again, this is only vissible via playlist, and she has privated some of the other videos that were previously only accessible this way, so get it while you can.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 22, 2024 10:07:26 GMT
Gosh that flirt line, I'm having second hand embarassment Rook " I don't wanna leave you alone Babie, I mean Lucanis *swooning longing* Lucanis : "Please. we just met and you're already acting more clingy than Spite."
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Post by bierkrug on Sept 22, 2024 10:14:22 GMT
"Bisexual disaster"? What the hell kind of weird description is that?
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Post by TabithaTH on Sept 22, 2024 10:15:29 GMT
Gosh that flirt line, I'm having second hand embarassment Rook " I don't wanna leave you alone Babie, I mean Lucanis *swooning longing* Lucanis : "Please. we just met and you're already acting more clingy than Spite." I know, it sounds more like something that'd come later when the relationship is more developed.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 22, 2024 10:28:14 GMT
I know, it sounds more like something that'd come later when the relationship is more developed. Yeah. Other flirt lines I saw with other companions were more light teasing (even during serious discussion ) it feels more natural ? I guess there's a reason Lucanis went and hid in the pantry (from Rook) lol.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 22, 2024 10:48:55 GMT
I know, it sounds more like something that'd come later when the relationship is more developed. Yeah. Other flirt lines I saw with other companions were more light teasing (even during serious discussion ) it feels more natural ? I guess there's a reason Lucanis went and hid in the pantry (from Rook) lol.
It reminds me a little of that one flirt with Blackwall that can go from zero to one hundred very quickly, lol. (Said affectionately... I love my grubby liar woodsman boyfriend.)
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Post by jennica on Sept 22, 2024 10:50:53 GMT
Gosh that flirt line, I'm having second hand embarassment Rook " I don't wanna leave you alone Babie, I mean Lucanis *swooning longing* Lucanis : "Please. we just met and you're already acting more clingy than Spite." Did Rook actually call him "Babie"? lol
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 22, 2024 11:03:35 GMT
Big Spoilers, but mostly things we've already seen here and there. Kala Elizabeth posted a video with some of the scene from first meeting Lucanis. Again, this is only vissible via playlist, and she has privated some of the other videos that were previously only accessible this way, so get it while you can. Man this is just personal pet peeve of mine, but since I'm playing Rogue Trader right now and have to listen to voice bark 'the Inquisition sends their regards' constantly, I am so sick and tired of that reference being everywhere in genre fiction lol.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 22, 2024 12:16:16 GMT
I know, it sounds more like something that'd come later when the relationship is more developed. Yeah. Other flirt lines I saw with other companions were more light teasing (even during serious discussion ) it feels more natural ? I guess there's a reason Lucanis went and hid in the pantry (from Rook) lol.
I haven't actually watched the video (I'm saving something for when I actually play the game) although I'd already caught some bits of the dialogue shortly after recruiting, so I'll take you word for it that it is that cringe worthy. I feel vindicated when I suggested that any flirting with him was inappropriate at that stage as crass and insensitive. It has been suggested that I was unreasonable and Rook was just being supportive in the dialogue I objected to. My argument was that there is nothing wrong with being supportive as a friend but then it should appear as such and not under the heart/flirt icon. My fear being that Lucanis would take it as a flirt (owing to the way it is programmed) and not simply showing empathy and compassion for his situation. Looks like I was right and Rook then builds on it in a most inappropriate way. If I am expected to do that in order to romance him, then forget it, I'll just be his platonic friend and avoid the heart icons like the plague.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 22, 2024 12:23:46 GMT
"Bisexual disaster"? What the hell kind of weird description is that? That was originally a quote from his writer Mary Kirby and I thought at the time it was a bit off. Why emphasise the bisexual aspect of his chaotic personal life? It is also strange considering they originally told us every character was pansexual when it came to relationships. However, more recent interviews and reviews seem to be hinting at something different, so I don't know what to make of that and perhaps the underlying sexuality of Lucanis is bisexual whilst other characters are inclined towards something more specific if left to their own devices.
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Post by roselavellan on Sept 22, 2024 12:40:54 GMT
Were their romances all written at the same time? Perhaps all the companions being pansexual was a decision that came later, and Lucanis was one of the original bisexual companions.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 22, 2024 12:55:04 GMT
Were their romances all written at the same time? Perhaps all the companions being pansexual was a decision that came later, and Lucanis was one of the original bisexual companions. That is a possibility. They probably wanted to avoid the situation they had with Inquisition and Andromeda where people complained when characters they wanted to romance were off limits. As a Crow I would imagine that Lucanis would always have been available to either sex, as Zevran was. He said it was part of their training to be "flexible" when it came to sexual encounters. Anything to get the job done essentially. However, Zevran did indicate a preference for the ladies if he was being totally honest, even though that didn't stop him romancing a male Warden. I suspect that Lucanis may not be as forward as Zevran was and if his short story was anything to go by, I think he might feel that unless the job required it, he would prefer not to get romantically involved, particularly in view of his current situation. Spite on the other hand might have other ideas.
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Post by jennica on Sept 22, 2024 13:13:05 GMT
"Bisexual disaster"? What the hell kind of weird description is that? That was originally a quote from his writer Mary Kirby and I thought at the time it was a bit off. Why emphasise the bisexual aspect of his chaotic personal life? It is also strange considering they originally told us every character was pansexual when it came to relationships. However, more recent interviews and reviews seem to be hinting at something different, so I don't know what to make of that and perhaps the underlying sexuality of Lucanis is bisexual whilst other characters are inclined towards something more specific if left to their own devices. "Bisexual disaster" is just a meme. There is no deep meaining behind it.
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Post by RelevantRevenant on Sept 22, 2024 13:32:04 GMT
IIRC someone asked Mary Kirby on X or BluSky who was the bisexual dumpster fire of the group or something along those lines. I'm fairly certain Felassan on Tumbrl has those screenshots on their blog. Edit. Nevermind. I can't find them but in my recollection Kirby was specifically asked this. Mary Kirby's X
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Post by Reznore on Sept 22, 2024 13:33:04 GMT
Gosh that flirt line, I'm having second hand embarassment Rook " I don't wanna leave you alone Babie, I mean Lucanis *swooning longing* Lucanis : "Please. we just met and you're already acting more clingy than Spite." Did Rook actually call him "Babie"? lol
Nah, I wrote what it sounded like in my head. Paraphrasing. No one was called "babie" nor "clingy"
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Post by merane on Sept 22, 2024 14:22:39 GMT
I admit that this is not my favorite flirting line but it is not what bothers me the most. I find that it lacks an option where one can show one's support - in a more or less neutral way, we are not even friends at this stage - to his situation. - "Welcome to the team" feels really detached from the situation, - "I'll keep an eye on you" is absolutely not friendly. This should have been the priority before writing a flirting line, although I can understand that some Rooks could have a real crush on seeing this handsome man swirling around in all directions. Why not? I just hope that this is not a mandatory "heart" step for the romance and that the next "hearts / flirting lines" are more appropriate in relation to the context. However I appreciate that Rook does not push more to stay. I always found it funny that Zevran is more attracted to women when David Gaider wrote him as homosexual at the time. But I guess we didn't want to scare the basic player (male hetero). And honestly I'm tired of tropes, like, we're sex workers so everything we do to our clients represents our tastes, including our romantic/sexual orientations. It's a job, like the Crows. That's why I was disappointed that David Gaider was pushed to change Zevran's sexuality. There was something interesting and innovative to write about it but it would be very bold to write in a video game in 2024, let alone in 2009...
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