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Post by melbella on Nov 23, 2024 0:55:07 GMT
Well it could just be when they were both younger and it was part of grandma's training, in this instance the art of seduction. In Tevinter Nights Viago seemed really up tight and unable to cope with his feelings for Teia for much of the story, so it would make sense that both Lucanis and Viago were part of some Crow conditioning program to not let your emotions and feelings get in the way of being an assassin. I guess you haven't seen their banter then? The whole story is that Lucanis asks Emmrich if Strife likes knives (first date advice ). Emmrich afterwards tells Lucanis that Strife does indeed like knives and Lucanis responds that never worked for him. In their next banter Emmrich asks about how Lucanis's knife gift was received. Lucanis says he was more ignored than spurned for gifting the knife because he can't flirt like Illario, and Emmrich expresses surprise that it didn't go better. Possible that Viago or whoever it was didn't even recognise the flirt attempt.
So while nothing really happened and it stayed a failed attempt, it is pretty much confirmed Lucanis tried to woo a Crow of his own accord, and one that fits is Viago because Emmrich did meet him in the Treviso path.
Hmm, his trying to flirt with someone and having it go nowhere fits my headcanon of him not wanting to make the first move on a Rook who might be eying someone else. No need to crash and burn again, right? Poor guy. Davrin better get with the program or I might just romance Lucanis again.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 23, 2024 6:35:16 GMT
I guess you haven't seen their banter then? The whole story is that Lucanis asks Emmrich if Strife likes knives (first date advice ). Emmrich afterwards tells Lucanis that Strife does indeed like knives and Lucanis responds that never worked for him. In their next banter Emmrich asks about how Lucanis's knife gift was received. Lucanis says he was more ignored than spurned for gifting the knife because he can't flirt like Illario, and Emmrich expresses surprise that it didn't go better. Possible that Viago or whoever it was didn't even recognise the flirt attempt.
So while nothing really happened and it stayed a failed attempt, it is pretty much confirmed Lucanis tried to woo a Crow of his own accord, and one that fits is Viago because Emmrich did meet him in the Treviso path.
Hmm, his trying to flirt with someone and having it go nowhere fits my headcanon of him not wanting to make the first move on a Rook who might be eying someone else. No need to crash and burn again, right? Poor guy. Davrin better get with the program or I might just romance Lucanis again. I see nothing wrong with romancing him again In the past days while thinking about it more, I feel like he is already one of my top BioWare romances, haha. I am never good with rankings, but he is very much up there. I loved the slow burn so much. And he is definitely one of my favourite characters, too.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2024 11:19:59 GMT
Well it could just be when they were both younger and it was part of grandma's training, in this instance the art of seduction. In Tevinter Nights Viago seemed really up tight and unable to cope with his feelings for Teia for much of the story, so it would make sense that both Lucanis and Viago were part of some Crow conditioning program to not let your emotions and feelings get in the way of being an assassin. I guess you haven't seen their banter then? The whole story is that Lucanis asks Emmrich if Strife likes knives (first date advice ). Emmrich afterwards tells Lucanis that Strife does indeed like knives and Lucanis responds that never worked for him. In their next banter Emmrich asks about how Lucanis's knife gift was received. Lucanis says he was more ignored than spurned for gifting the knife because he can't flirt like Illario, and Emmrich expresses surprise that it didn't go better. Possible that Viago or whoever it was didn't even recognise the flirt attempt.
So while nothing really happened and it stayed a failed attempt, it is pretty much confirmed Lucanis tried to woo a Crow of his own accord, and one that fits is Viago because Emmrich did meet him in the Treviso path.
Hold on, so I'm confused. I thought Lucanis was sweet on Neve and all his efforts were going into wooing her. So now it turns out he was simultaneously trying to seduce a fellow Crow? Or did he only move onto Neve after his rejection by the Crow? Also, if it was Viago, he was romantically entangled with Teia in Tevinter Nights and I thought that was also implied in game. So, what is going on here? Is it some Crow tradition to have a hetrosexual and homosexual relationship going on at the same time? I suppose that is possible given their their training and conditioning not to get romantically involved with anyone. Or was the failed attempt way back before Viago took up with Teia? The entry for Zevran in WoT2 suggested that he Rinnala and Taliesin were in a threesome relationship before their boss told Taliesin to get rid of Rinnala and so he told Zevran she had betrayed them. However, Zevran had become emotionally attached to her so it hit him badly, particularly when he discovered that the betrayal was a lie. Then all he could remember is how she begged him on her knees not to believe it and that she loved him too. Don't know where that leaves Rook though if they are in a relationship with Lucanis. Perhaps it is just up to the player whether or not it is monogamous and how long it continues after the end of the game.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 23, 2024 11:30:01 GMT
It's not something recent. Lucanis says it was a long time ago.
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Post by melbella on Nov 23, 2024 15:09:07 GMT
I see nothing wrong with romancing him again
It's very odd....there are way more heart options with him than with Davrin. Maybe because it takes longer to break through his shell? Oh well, at least I can hug Assan whenever I want.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2024 15:28:00 GMT
It's not something recent. Lucanis says it was a long time ago. Oh, it's no big deal then. Perhaps he did have a crush on Viago when he was younger. As he says, apparently Viago was oblivious to it, or possibly felt just as awkward as he did with Teia, particularly given whose grandson Lucanis is, so he deliberately avoided showing any recognition of the advance. As I've said, Crow training really seems to mess with their heads when it comes to emotional attachments. Casual sex is okay and even expected when it comes to getting a job done but actual attachments are a luxury that cannot be considered at least whilst climbing the slippery pole to success.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 23, 2024 15:46:06 GMT
I see nothing wrong with romancing him again
It's very odd....there are way more heart options with him than with Davrin. Maybe because it takes longer to break through his shell? Oh well, at least I can hug Assan whenever I want. I think you're right about that, he makes Rook work really hard for it I loved the sentence with Rook breaking apart his perfectly gathered cloud of doom. Quite fitting. I am curious about Davrin's flirt options too. Maybe he gets some more later? Gonna be fun to find out (looking forward to reading your experience in the What did you do today thread).
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 23, 2024 16:57:08 GMT
His romance was really sweet for what we got. It was short, but so were the rest of romances, all of them have an interrupted kiss scene as well (what's up with that?). Him having a story before Veilguard came out makes him more compelling, now I wish we got stories for all companions, but at least we got a podcast I'm still not sure why he just accepts being the First Talon. A big part of his characterization in TN was the fact that he didn't want that at all but would accept the role if Caterina pushed it on him, but that should be explored through dialogue. There was nothing at all, not even a one liner between Rook and Lucanis after that quest was complete.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 23, 2024 17:40:56 GMT
His romance was really sweet for what we got. It was short, but so were the rest of romances, all of them have an interrupted kiss scene as well (what's up with that?). Him having a story before Veilguard came out makes him more compelling, now I wish we got stories for all companions, but at least we got a podcast I'm still not sure why he just accepts being the First Talon. A big part of his characterization in TN was the fact that he didn't want that at all but would accept the role if Caterina pushed it on him, but that should be explored through dialogue. There was nothing at all, not even a one liner between Rook and Lucanis after that quest was complete. One of us, one of us! As for your Spoiler. I think duty to his house and family. Didn't he also say you don't say no to Caterina at some point? Plus Illario is in no way a solution either way, and possibly never was because Caterina really adores Lucanis. I think a nice scene afterwards like you said would have been so great. Kinda strange they didn't go there. Though I guess the dialogue in the kitchen afterwards can mean that he is not happy about it. Wanting some quiet and so on. He also kinda looked surprised after the announcement but caught himself quickly. Might be reading too much into it though Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 23, 2024 18:09:11 GMT
Isn't Lucanis' romance one of the few (or only one?) with practically no physical contact outside of the One Scene? I feel a bit shortchanged *cries* Regarding First Talon, I just assumed he realised after the Ilario incident that it was time he stepped up, especially since Caterina is obviously not getting any younger. It was always obvious it was a matter of time anyway, wasn't it?
I do wish there was more dialogue with him on his thoughts about this, about Spite, about everything, really.
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Post by ebonydragon on Nov 23, 2024 23:49:48 GMT
Isn't Lucanis' romance one of the few (or only one?) with practically no physical contact outside of the One Scene? I feel a bit shortchanged *cries* I mean we do get to poke him in the chest in the 'interrupted' scene in the pantry, does that count as physical contact?
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 24, 2024 2:52:48 GMT
Isn't Lucanis' romance one of the few (or only one?) with practically no physical contact outside of the One Scene? I feel a bit shortchanged *cries* I mean we do get to poke him in the chest in the 'interrupted' scene in the pantry, does that count as physical contact? Or that odd shoulder touch at the cafe, which really was a wasted opportunity for a romantic moment. I get that he's not an expressive person, and I get that the romance is a slow burn. They're in one of the most romantic spots in Thedas, surely they could have managed something slightly less awkward than Rook gazing adoringly up at him for 5 seconds while he stands over her. Couldn't they walk hand-in-hand to look at the river? Maybe he could put his arm around her? I don't know. He's still my canon romance, since I can't imagine romancing anyone else, but we really need a few more crumbs here.
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 24, 2024 7:16:42 GMT
Regarding First Talon, I just assumed he realised after the Ilario incident that it was time he stepped up, especially since Caterina is obviously not getting any younger. It was always obvious it was a matter of time anyway, wasn't it?
I do wish there was more dialogue with him on his thoughts about this, about Spite, about everything, really. That's what I gather as well, Lucanis still couldn't refuse Caterina. But he didn't want to be the First Talon, his internal conflict should be explored, there was no throwaway line, nothing. He just got the position and it was never spoken of again.
I'm just disappointed with his questline in general, he had so much potential but in the end nothing was done with it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 24, 2024 10:19:38 GMT
Regarding First Talon, I just assumed he realised after the Ilario incident that it was time he stepped up, especially since Caterina is obviously not getting any younger. It was always obvious it was a matter of time anyway, wasn't it?
I do wish there was more dialogue with him on his thoughts about this, about Spite, about everything, really. That's what I gather as well, Lucanis still couldn't refuse Caterina. But he didn't want to be the First Talon, his internal conflict should be explored, there was no throwaway line, nothing. He just got the position and it was never spoken of again.
I'm just disappointed with his questline in general, he had so much potential but in the end nothing was done with it. May be his attitude to being First Talon altered as a result of his relationship with Spite. Or may be he just accepted the fact that with Illario turning traitor there was no alternative available for Caterina to choose.
It is a pity they didn't delve more into that aspect of his personality but we know of the reluctance from Tevinter Nights. Was it really mentioned in game? I know he talks about the pressures of being Caterina's grandson and the expectations that come from that, but not specifically about being First Talon elect. If not, then how would a player who hadn't read TN know about his attitude?
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 24, 2024 11:12:19 GMT
May be his attitude to being First Talon altered as a result of his relationship with Spite. Or may be he just accepted the fact that with Illario turning traitor there was no alternative available for Caterina to choose.
It is a pity they didn't delve more into that aspect of his personality but we know of the reluctance from Tevinter Nights. Was it really mentioned in game? I know he talks about the pressures of being Caterina's grandson and the expectations that come from that, but not specifically about being First Talon elect. If not, then how would a player who hadn't read TN know about his attitude? Iirc we never hear Lucanis' thoughts about being the First Talon, if the player has never read TN, they wouldn't know that he doesn't want it. Maybe there's party banter, but I never came across it.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 24, 2024 14:37:38 GMT
Or may be he just accepted the fact that with Illario turning traitor there was no alternative available for Caterina to choose. I can't remember every detail of the Wigmaker Job, but hasn't Lucanis always thought Illario was unfit for the position anyway? There was no way he would have entrusted House Dellamorte to him.
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Post by phoray on Nov 24, 2024 15:11:50 GMT
I thought him having an interrupted kiss scene is the only one that made sense- it was interrupted by his realization that he shouldn't jump into this when he doesn't trust the spirit on board with him.
Literally everyone else was interrupted by the equivalent of a dog scratching at the door. Cullen in DAI kissed as soon as the soldier that interrupted left. So to me, it just speaks to the idea that a lot that is ultimately solid about the game was added on so late in development they cut corners. They can only afford one kissing scene animation so we only get one, even if it makes no sense two adults don't kiss when they want to. Would rather have made out with my LI more than see more of Solas the dog fighting an uncharacterized archdemon but here we are.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 24, 2024 15:18:07 GMT
Or may be he just accepted the fact that with Illario turning traitor there was no alternative available for Caterina to choose. I can't remember every detail of the Wigmaker Job, but hasn't Lucanis always thought Illario was unfit for the position anyway? There was no way he would have entrusted House Dellamorte to him. That was not the impression I got from Wigmaker Job. Lucanis was insisting that his path lay elsewhere. "Death is my Calling" Lucanis stated, matter of fact. "Just as yours is to become First Talon". Then when Illario says that Caterina thinks Lucanis is the better man for the job, Lucanis says: "I don't want it." However, he admitted that it was difficult to refuse Caterina so he suggested they played for time until she saw it their way. He sensed that Illario wasn't happy with this response but it was the best he could come up with. So nowhere is there any suggestion he thinks Illario shouldn't be First Talon. It is Caterina that is standing in his way. However, Lucanis is adamant he doesn't want to be First Talon or even give up his work as a Master Assassin, which Illario suggests he could do if he was running the show.
So, for some reason Lucanis didn't want to retire to the easy life giving the orders whilst not getting his hands dirty. I'd imagined that was because he was already possessed by a spirit/demon and that was part of their deal (also why he appeared to have supernatural abilities such as enhanced sense of hearing and magical sensitivity) but apparently not. I thought that perhaps when he was that isolated, frightened, starving child who hated his grandmother because she had punished him so severely for getting his lessons wrong, a spirit/demon was attracted to him and offered to make him the best assassin he could possibly be and thus please his grandmother but he had to keep on being an assassin as part of the deal.
Of course, it is possible that was the intention originally but then for some reason they decided to change it so he only became possessed through Zara's actions, rather than perhaps her controlling him through the demon already in possession.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 24, 2024 15:26:35 GMT
That was not the impression I got from Wigmaker Job. Lucanis was insisting that his path lay elsewhere. "Death is my Calling" Lucanis stated, matter of fact. "Just as yours is to become First Talon". Then when Illario says that Caterina thinks Lucanis is the better man for the job, Lucanis says: "I don't want it." However, he admitted that it was difficult to refuse Caterina so he suggested they played for time until she saw it their way. He sensed that Illario wasn't happy with this response but it was the best he could come up with. So nowhere is there any suggestion he thinks Illario shouldn't be First Talon. It is Caterina that is standing in his way. However, Lucanis is adamant he doesn't want to be First Talon or even give up his work as a Master Assassin, which Illario suggests he could do if he was running the show. I need to go back and read it. Isn't there at least dialogue, in the game maybe, where he basically suggests that Illario is more skilled at enjoying the good things in life than at working? I somehow got the impression that Illario was a bit of a himbo, and I can't remember how I got it.
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Post by phoray on Nov 24, 2024 15:43:37 GMT
That was not the impression I got from Wigmaker Job. Lucanis was insisting that his path lay elsewhere. "Death is my Calling" Lucanis stated, matter of fact. "Just as yours is to become First Talon". Then when Illario says that Caterina thinks Lucanis is the better man for the job, Lucanis says: "I don't want it." However, he admitted that it was difficult to refuse Caterina so he suggested they played for time until she saw it their way. He sensed that Illario wasn't happy with this response but it was the best he could come up with. So nowhere is there any suggestion he thinks Illario shouldn't be First Talon. It is Caterina that is standing in his way. However, Lucanis is adamant he doesn't want to be First Talon or even give up his work as a Master Assassin, which Illario suggests he could do if he was running the show. I need to go back and read it. Isn't there at least dialogue, in the game maybe, where he basically suggests that Illario is more skilled at enjoying the good things in life than at working? I somehow got the impression that Illario was a bit of a himbo, and I can't remember how I got it. Said Illario was a charmer. But multiple times in the game, Lucanis implies through silence (and then lost his patience and said the thoughts out loud) that he does find Illario to be an idiot incapable of doing the job.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 24, 2024 15:45:30 GMT
That was not the impression I got from Wigmaker Job. Lucanis was insisting that his path lay elsewhere. "Death is my Calling" Lucanis stated, matter of fact. "Just as yours is to become First Talon". Then when Illario says that Caterina thinks Lucanis is the better man for the job, Lucanis says: "I don't want it." However, he admitted that it was difficult to refuse Caterina so he suggested they played for time until she saw it their way. He sensed that Illario wasn't happy with this response but it was the best he could come up with. So nowhere is there any suggestion he thinks Illario shouldn't be First Talon. It is Caterina that is standing in his way. However, Lucanis is adamant he doesn't want to be First Talon or even give up his work as a Master Assassin, which Illario suggests he could do if he was running the show. I need to go back and read it. Isn't there at least dialogue, in the game maybe, where he basically suggests that Illario is more skilled at enjoying the good things in life than at working? I somehow got the impression that Illario was a bit of a himbo, and I can't remember how I got it. Yes, Lucanis says he always had to get Illario out of trouble at some point (funeral scene maybe?).
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Post by melbella on Nov 24, 2024 16:10:19 GMT
I need to go back and read it. Isn't there at least dialogue, in the game maybe, where he basically suggests that Illario is more skilled at enjoying the good things in life than at working? I somehow got the impression that Illario was a bit of a himbo, and I can't remember how I got it. Yes, Lucanis says he always had to get Illario out of trouble at some point (funeral scene maybe?).
But also that Illario backed him when he needed it. No wonder the betrayal cuts so deep. Just did the Bloodbath quest again and I'm wondering who, between Illario and Zara, was actually using the other.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by phoray on Nov 24, 2024 16:13:12 GMT
I feel like Illario is very much a coward. He had to let someone kill Lucanis where he couldn't see it because he couldn't do it himself. And then even Catarina dead is a fakeout- I can't imagine his long term plan, house arrest until she died of old age? So Lucanis had a weak spot for the family he had left just as much as Illario did. Illario was just less honorable and power hungry while feeling disrespected and seething with the friction that caused
Only with everyone watching did he try to take out Lucanis himself, pride goading him
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