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Post by midnight tea on Nov 20, 2024 7:57:22 GMT
Datamined description, directly from the game files: LUCANIS AGERANGE: 36 ACCENT: Hint of Italian, but not as strong as Zevran's. (He is from a coastal city in Antiva, which had an influx of Tevinter refugees from Seheron after the Qunari invaded 100 years or so ago. That’s why he looks and sounds different from Zevran and Josephine.) APPEARANCE: Lean, sinewy, handsome, but haunted Antivan human man. Mid thirties. CHARACTERDESCRIPTION: Once the heir to the First Talon and the Antivan Crows' best mage killer, Lucanis now bears scars both physically and mentally from his time as a brainwashed executioner for an evil mage cult. No longer the pragmatic assassin always in control, he wrestles with becoming what he’s spent his life hunting: a demon-possessed abomination. He longs to return to his former glory, but the monster inside him demands blood and vengeance. With his future hanging in the balance, Lucanis must decide whether to give into the demon or control it.
SPITE SPEECHPATTERN: Taunting, sing-songy, creepy CHARACTERDESCRIPTION: The demon trapped inside Lucanis's head. Spite was once a Spirit of Passion drawn to Lucanis's will to live, but years of torture and a desire for revenge has twisted him into a Demon of Obsession.
Interesting. I'd predicted in this thread that Zara probably had an use for him (that of "executioner"), and it would have been interesting, but they went a different direction. No wonder he's gone through a lot of changes. They've sanitized the game quite a bit, making these characters from complex, flawed grown adults into like Disney sweethearts with arrested development. Since MEA, BioWare's fixated on this sort of childish writing and characters, virtue signaling, overly sanitizing stuff and it's like, can't they see it's hurting their games? Is this an attempt to capture a new and younger audience, but are they pre-schoolers? The juvenile tone and art style are at the top of criticism from practically everybody that played the game, no one likes it, and it's such a shame. Veilguard could have been one hell of a game.I mean... come the F on. Just, stop it... >.< It is so frustrating to think what might have been. The Lucanis described there is how I was expecting him to be. That is what was being hinted at in Tevinter Nights. I hate to say it but handing him off to Mary Kirby perhaps wasn't the best idea after all. However, since all the companions seem quite tame compared with previous games and what data mined info suggests they should have been, likely it wasn't her fault but what she was being urged to do. It seems other companions altered from their original concept, for example Taash, but also peripheral characters such as Irelin.
I am very much reminded of the cancelled DLC for DA2 Exalted March, which sounded on paper as though it would have been awesome but sadly received the chop from management.
Dragon Age: Dreadwolf is the game we should have got. Instead it morphed into Dragon Age: The Veilguard.
Currently, I'm gathering as much info as I can about what the original writers intended for the story and characters and then will amuse myself by writing the story that should have been. That's not how writing works at all, characters can alter dramatically all the time during writing even personal projects, and while DA is a commercial product with higher-ups having a say, not every decision (that you don't like) is just a result of some sort of sinister pressure. You seem unhappy with Veilguard, which is fine - I was ready to potentially not vibe with the game even if everyone and their dog gave it 11/10. It happens. Creating conspiracy theories about how Veilguard is some sort of result of higher-ups wholesale meddling with the project and not 10 years of complex creative iteration is really not a way to go.
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 20, 2024 8:18:35 GMT
There is no need to defend a company like your life depends on it, if other DA fans dislike the game that's fine. Back to Lucanis... I haven't finished the game yet but I just finished Lucanis questline and I find it weird that he and Spite just stay together. Surely, living with a demon in their head is not good for anyone, or are demons suddenly not scary anymore and all you need to do is discipline it like it was a dog? Spite seems to fall in line when Taash does that. The whole situation just feels unresolved.
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Nov 20, 2024 8:32:37 GMT
Datamined description, directly from the game files: LUCANIS AGERANGE: 36 ACCENT: Hint of Italian, but not as strong as Zevran's. (He is from a coastal city in Antiva, which had an influx of Tevinter refugees from Seheron after the Qunari invaded 100 years or so ago. That’s why he looks and sounds different from Zevran and Josephine.) APPEARANCE: Lean, sinewy, handsome, but haunted Antivan human man. Mid thirties. CHARACTERDESCRIPTION: Once the heir to the First Talon and the Antivan Crows' best mage killer, Lucanis now bears scars both physically and mentally from his time as a brainwashed executioner for an evil mage cult. No longer the pragmatic assassin always in control, he wrestles with becoming what he’s spent his life hunting: a demon-possessed abomination. He longs to return to his former glory, but the monster inside him demands blood and vengeance. With his future hanging in the balance, Lucanis must decide whether to give into the demon or control it.
SPITE SPEECHPATTERN: Taunting, sing-songy, creepy CHARACTERDESCRIPTION: The demon trapped inside Lucanis's head. Spite was once a Spirit of Passion drawn to Lucanis's will to live, but years of torture and a desire for revenge has twisted him into a Demon of Obsession.
Interesting. I'd predicted in this thread that Zara probably had an use for him (that of "executioner"), and it would have been interesting, but they went a different direction. No wonder he's gone through a lot of changes. They've sanitized the game quite a bit, making these characters from complex, flawed grown adults into like Disney sweethearts with arrested development. Since MEA, BioWare's fixated on this sort of childish writing and characters, virtue signaling, overly sanitizing stuff and it's like, can't they see it's hurting their games? Is this an attempt to capture a new and younger audience, but are they pre-schoolers? The juvenile tone and art style are at the top of criticism from practically everybody that played the game, no one likes it, and it's such a shame. Veilguard could have been one hell of a game.I mean... come the F on. Just, stop it... >.< It is so frustrating to think what might have been. The Lucanis described there is how I was expecting him to be. That is what was being hinted at in Tevinter Nights. I hate to say it but handing him off to Mary Kirby perhaps wasn't the best idea after all. However, since all the companions seem quite tame compared with previous games and what data mined info suggests they should have been, likely it wasn't her fault but what she was being urged to do. It seems other companions altered from their original concept, for example Taash, but also peripheral characters such as Irelin.
I am very much reminded of the cancelled DLC for DA2 Exalted March, which sounded on paper as though it would have been awesome but sadly received the chop from management.
Dragon Age: Dreadwolf is the game we should have got. Instead it morphed into Dragon Age: The Veilguard.
Currently, I'm gathering as much info as I can about what the original writers intended for the story and characters and then will amuse myself by writing the story that should have been. So frustrating. They've done it again (same tone as MEA), and it boggles the mind as to why and how can they not see that they're destroying these wonderful worlds and characters, lore... that they've built, with this dumb kiddy stuff - that not even kids like, btw. Lucanis, the Crows, Isabela...the Blight, spirits and demons, Tevinter... everything. So sanitized and Marvel-ized that, if not for characters like Morrigan, Varric and Solas - I'd have had a hard time telling if this is Dragon Age. It is that unrecognizable, at times. Mike Gamble said the next ME will be mature... but, not gonna lie, I'm discouraged. After MEA, Anthem and now Veilguard... I mean, either they've lost it and can't get a clue, or I'm the one who can't. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the game, there's much about it to be enjoyed and I'll squeeze as much as I can from it... but it's bad.
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Nov 20, 2024 8:37:50 GMT
There is no need to defend a company like your life depends on it, if other DA fans dislike the game that's fine. Back to Lucanis... I haven't finished the game yet but I just finished Lucanis questline and I find it weird that he and Spite just stay together. Surely, living with a demon in their head is not good for anyone, or are demons suddenly not scary anymore and all you need to do is discipline it like it was a dog? Spite seems to fall in line when Taaash does that. The whole situation just feels unresolved.
They made demonic possession friendly and borderline cute (bit of an exaggeration, but you get my meaning). Spite is basically Casper the Friendly Ghost. Gives Lucanis cool powers. It's that shallow.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 20, 2024 8:44:51 GMT
There is no need to defend a company like your life depends on it, if other DA fans dislike the game that's fine. Back to Lucanis... I haven't finished the game yet but I just finished Lucanis questline and I find it weird that he and Spite just stay together. Surely, living with a demon in their head is not good for anyone? It is still a demon, not a spirit, it feels unresolved.
See, this is what I dislike - I'm talking from a perspective of a creator and wannabe storyteller, telling people that creative process doesn't look AT ALL how some clearly think it does (initial concepts can change naturally AND dramatically from where they were originally been even without external pressures - especially when we're talking about game that's been iterated for a literal decade) and all my arguments are reduced to is "defending a company", when all I really want is people not spinning simple narratives about a nature of a creative product as complex as DA games. And while we could probably discuss till we're blue in the face about where e.g. EA influence into Bioware starts or ends, I do urge to listen to what people like Kala Elizabeth or Ghil Dirthamen said when they worked with Bioware, is that the Veilguard was largely the story they wanted to tell, whether people like it or not. So, disliking Veilguard is entirely fine - spinning narratives about "the game that never was" (that was somehow taken away from us) because DA4 pretty naturally changed over time away from some initial concepts is NOT - not in my book, at least. I mean, damnit, the same thing happened to BG3 with its changes and rewrites to characters how they were in Early Access (they changed some of the companions A LOT, including softening some of them), and I argued basically the exact same thing when the topic was brought up. Concerning Lucanis It's a thing that can change - I just finished 2nd playthrough where I chose Minrathous and didn't romance Lucanis (I mean, well, I wouldn't be able to anyway) and he expressed willingness to separate with Spite - which, according to his epilogue in that PT, he did.
Also, while Spite calls himself Spite, if they actually stay together and make a deal to cooperate, it's actually described by Solas as spirit of Determination.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 20, 2024 8:48:01 GMT
There is no need to defend a company like your life depends on it, if other DA fans dislike the game that's fine. Back to Lucanis... I haven't finished the game yet but I just finished Lucanis questline and I find it weird that he and Spite just stay together. Surely, living with a demon in their head is not good for anyone, or are demons suddenly not scary anymore and all you need to do is discipline it like it was a dog? Spite seems to fall in line when Taaash does that. The whole situation just feels unresolved.
They made demonic possession friendly and borderline cute (bit of an exaggeration, but you get my meaning). Spite is basically Casper the Friendly Ghost. Gives Lucanis cool powers. It's that shallow. Casper the Friendly Ghost-like is spirit in Wynne or Cole (so I guess they sanitized DAO too!), and just like Spite, they're hardly shallow.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 20, 2024 9:31:05 GMT
To be honest I found it extremely refreshing this was not just another Anders story or some really big drama by the end (don't get me wrong, I DO love drama, but it was fitting how it played out for me this time, too). It was kinda cool to see a different approach, to see Spite rather "revert back" to his original purpose because Lucanis accepted him in the end (when saving Treviso) and they both can find a way to overcome their torture. Once they stopped fighting each other they can accomplish much together. Is it all magic of friendship stuff? Probably, but it was nice to see it didn't end in a disaster It will be interesting to see Spite in the Minrathous path and without romance (that small gesture Spite did in the romance scene was so fucking sweet, but I'm very curious how their relationship will feel without romance).
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 20, 2024 17:48:35 GMT
all my arguments are reduced to is "defending a company", when all I really want is people not spinning simple narratives about a nature of a creative product as complex as DA games. And while we could probably discuss till we're blue in the face about where e.g. EA influence into Bioware starts or ends, I do urge to listen to what people like Kala Elizabeth or Ghil Dirthamen said when they worked with Bioware, is that the Veilguard was largely the story they wanted to tell, whether people like it or not. So, disliking Veilguard is entirely fine - spinning narratives about "the game that never was" (that was somehow taken away from us) because DA4 pretty naturally changed over time away from some initial concepts is NOT - not in my book, at least. I agree that creating a game is extremely complex, especially if the project was rebooted twice, and many people are involved in the process but I don't see the point in defending everything Bioware does. The thing about Bioware stating they always wanted to create a game like Veilguard - I'd take it with a grain of salt, they were throwing around statements like "The most romantic Bioware game yet" and "The best companions Bioware has ever written". And I'll stop here since it's Lucanis thread.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 20, 2024 17:56:36 GMT
all my arguments are reduced to is "defending a company", when all I really want is people not spinning simple narratives about a nature of a creative product as complex as DA games. And while we could probably discuss till we're blue in the face about where e.g. EA influence into Bioware starts or ends, I do urge to listen to what people like Kala Elizabeth or Ghil Dirthamen said when they worked with Bioware, is that the Veilguard was largely the story they wanted to tell, whether people like it or not. So, disliking Veilguard is entirely fine - spinning narratives about "the game that never was" (that was somehow taken away from us) because DA4 pretty naturally changed over time away from some initial concepts is NOT - not in my book, at least. I agree that creating a game is extremely complex, especially if the project was rebooted twice, and many people are involved in the process but I don't see the point in defending everything Bioware does. The thing about Bioware stating they always wanted to create a game like Veilguard - I'd take it with a grain of salt, they were throwing around statements like "The most romantic Bioware game yet" and "The best companions Bioware has ever written". And I'll stop here since it's Lucanis thread. I know this is off topic but i find it pretty sad that just being positive about a game somehow makes you a defender of a company. And people here wonder why fans of the game don’t come to this forum.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 20, 2024 19:11:30 GMT
I agree that creating a game is extremely complex, especially if the project was rebooted twice, and many people are involved in the process but I don't see the point in defending everything Bioware does. The thing about Bioware stating they always wanted to create a game like Veilguard - I'd take it with a grain of salt, they were throwing around statements like "The most romantic Bioware game yet" and "The best companions Bioware has ever written". And I'll stop here since it's Lucanis thread. I know this is off topic but i find it pretty sad that just being positive about a game somehow makes you a defender of a company. And people here wonder why fans of the game don’t come to this forum. There really is not much to say, when everything a person says - even bringing up that I've used similar argumentation to talk about writing and development of a different game from a different studio - is reduced to "defending everything Bioware does"
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Post by fraggle on Nov 20, 2024 19:35:08 GMT
The thing about Bioware stating they always wanted to create a game like Veilguard - I'd take it with a grain of salt, they were throwing around statements like "The most romantic Bioware game yet" and "The best companions Bioware has ever written". I mean, the CAN say that, if they are proud of what they've done. It's fine I think. I saw the same happen with bands ("This is the best song we've ever written!" and old school fans are like wuuut ). I can totally see where you're coming from though. It's kinda funny, because while we get a HUGE amount of content concerning the companions, I also feel that somehow it is not enough at times. I am missing asking them about stuff like their past a little bit. But overall I think through the time they spend together in all their quests, this can also count as a nice build-up to romance or friendship. It's just a bit odd that from what I've heard, all romances seem to be progressing more or less the same? If that's true, it's an odd choice. The previous romances were vastly different, with different points of sex etc.
Oh well, to return to the thread topic... at least for me, Lucanis is actually really one of the best written companions And his romance is up there too. My goal is to play through all romances to see what they actually delivered
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 20, 2024 19:51:03 GMT
The thing about Bioware stating they always wanted to create a game like Veilguard - I'd take it with a grain of salt, they were throwing around statements like "The most romantic Bioware game yet" and "The best companions Bioware has ever written". I mean, the CAN say that, if they are proud of what they've done. It's fine I think. I saw the same happen with bands ("This is the best song we've ever written!" and old school fans are like wuuut ). I can totally see where you're coming from though. It's kinda funny, because while we get a HUGE amount of content concerning the companions, I also feel that somehow it is not enough at times. I am missing asking them about stuff like their past a little bit. But overall I think through the time they spend together in all their quests, this can also count as a nice build-up to romance or friendship. It's just a bit odd that from what I've heard, all romances seem to be progressing more or less the same? If that's true, it's an odd choice. The previous romances were vastly different, with different points of sex etc.
Oh well, to return to the thread topic... at least for me, Lucanis is actually really one of the best written companions And his romance is up there too. My goal is to play through all romances to see what they actually delivered I've done Taash romance on my second PT and they have similar structure in a sense that we get a scene where we get a soft lock (confirm we want to contiue to flirt with them), another scene where we get a hard lock (entering exclusive relationship) and its culmination happens in Act 3, but they can play out differently. I know, for example, that people who started with Lucanis and then romanced Emmrich are like 'whoa, we're in relationship already???' because Lucanis romance is a slow-burn - it's such a slow burn that when I've decided to romance Lucanis I got at least 2 other characters I casually flirted with ask my Rook first whether they want to be more serious about relationship with them or not. Taash, on the other hand, starts rather abruptly after a few flirts becayse they're um...very direct, only to be a bit of a roller-coaster due to what happened in Taash's storyline.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 20, 2024 19:55:33 GMT
Taash, on the other hand, starts rather abruptly after a few flirts becayse they're um...very direct, only to be a bit of a roller-coaster due to what happened in Taash's storyline. Ok, that sounds interesting And yeah, very curious about Taash's romance too! Didn't Corinne Busche say it's the spiciest or something like that?
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Post by phoray on Nov 21, 2024 1:30:13 GMT
Taash, on the other hand, starts rather abruptly after a few flirts becayse they're um...very direct, only to be a bit of a roller-coaster due to what happened in Taash's storyline. Ok, that sounds interesting And yeah, very curious about Taash's romance too! Didn't Corinne Busche say it's the spiciest or something like that? Can see them naked I think? dunno if that makes it spicy.
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Nov 21, 2024 2:40:41 GMT
God bless modders
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Post by melbella on Nov 21, 2024 3:59:16 GMT
I'm really struggling with not flirting with him this game.
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Post by TabithaTH on Nov 21, 2024 7:13:50 GMT
Ngl, my warden didn’t fit well with Lucanis, but my twink male elf seems to have som real chemistry. Unfortunately I’ve already decided a certain choice I didn’t do last time, meaning he’ll have none of it once we get to it.
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