Felya87
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Post by Felya87 on Nov 10, 2024 18:15:55 GMT
Jesus Christ. B*tches on social media are rabid and h*rny re: Lucanis. They’re like “Abominate my vajay-jay, Lucanis!”, and they’re quite jealous of Neve. They’re like the Lucanis army. Some Lucanis stans having their panties in a twist about light flirting with Neve, some Solavellans shooting lightning at Mythal, not necessarily because she is partially responsible for the mes, but because she was the most important person in his life for quite some time (and, potentially, a lover).... uh, why are some people like this ? The "double standard" feeling surely doesn't help, with Lucanis being no more romanceable if a Rook choose Minrathous instead of Treviso, no discount for Shadow Dragons Rooks that have to leave behind their hometown, while Neve not only is still romanceable by Rook if Treviso is saved, but no matter what, she and Lucanis always end up together, if neither are romanced, no matter what city is rescued, making it feel like Neve is forgiven by Lucanis for going to save her hometown, but the same can't be pardoned to a Shadow Dragon Rook.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 10, 2024 19:49:40 GMT
Some Lucanis stans having their panties in a twist about light flirting with Neve, some Solavellans shooting lightning at Mythal, not necessarily because she is partially responsible for the mes, but because she was the most important person in his life for quite some time (and, potentially, a lover).... uh, why are some people like this ? The "double standard" feeling surely doesn't help, with Lucanis being no more romanceable if a Rook choose Minrathous instead of Treviso, no discount for Shadow Dragons Rooks that have to leave behind their hometown, while Neve not only is still romanceable by Rook if Treviso is saved, but no matter what, she and Lucanis always end up together, if neither are romanced, no matter what city is rescued, making it feel like Neve is forgiven by Lucanis for going to save her hometown, but the same can't be pardoned to a Shadow Dragon Rook. But... it's not Neve that is being asked to make the decision about which city they help - we can argue about not giving an option for Rook, but why would Neve be punished for Rook's decision??? It's them who are the leader, while Lucanis and Neve are put in basically the same situation, which is why - even if we romance either - they have a lot of sympathy for the companion from a destroyed city.
As for who can be romanced and when - Neve and Lucanis are still two different characters; and the way for Lucanis to cope with problems is to shut away himself from the world and others, so his shell is simply harder to chip by a person who, they think, could've made a difference (and, in fact, they did).
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Post by theratpack55 on Nov 10, 2024 20:37:26 GMT
The "double standard" feeling surely doesn't help, with Lucanis being no more romanceable if a Rook choose Minrathous instead of Treviso, no discount for Shadow Dragons Rooks that have to leave behind their hometown, while Neve not only is still romanceable by Rook if Treviso is saved, but no matter what, she and Lucanis always end up together, if neither are romanced, no matter what city is rescued, making it feel like Neve is forgiven by Lucanis for going to save her hometown, but the same can't be pardoned to a Shadow Dragon Rook. But... it's not Neve that is being asked to make the decision about which city they help - we can argue about not giving an option for Rook, but why would Neve be punished for Rook's decision??? It's them who are the leader, while Lucanis and Neve are put in basically the same situation, which is why - even if we romance either - they have a lot of sympathy for the companion from a destroyed city.
As for who can be romanced and when - Neve and Lucanis are still two different characters; and the way for Lucanis to cope with problems is to shut away himself from the world and others, so his shell is simply harder to chip by a person who, they think, could've made a difference (and, in fact, they did). There is not a single line of dialog talking about it.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Nov 10, 2024 23:16:30 GMT
I finally soft-locked Lucanis' romance
damn this man is smooth
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roselavellan
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 11, 2024 1:55:57 GMT
I don't think it's very fair that Lucanis reacts so differently to the decision, but real life isn't fair either so at least it's not wildly unrealistic, even if we as players expect to be treated fairly by the game.
For me the real problem is Lucanis rejecting Rook and then turning around and bedding their close friend. It's absolutely adding insult to injury and frankly, I think it makes him look like a sleazy asshole. (Edit: I'm saying this only because I don't think it's Bioware's intended portrayal of him, and I think they should do something about it).
(I also saw that the in-game reason for it was that Lucanis had "no time" for Rook following the decision, which sounds like a condescending lie from the devs if he can then have time for Neve.)
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Nov 11, 2024 14:32:48 GMT
Kinda f*cked up to lock a Shadow Dragon Rook out of a romance with Lucanis, and then give him Neve also. Not cool...
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 11, 2024 15:04:35 GMT
I don't think it's very fair that Lucanis reacts so differently to the decision, but real life isn't fair either so at least it's not wildly unrealistic, even if we as players expect to be treated fairly by the game.
For me the real problem is Lucanis rejecting Rook and then turning around and bedding their close friend. It's absolutely adding insult to injury and frankly, I think it makes him look like a sleazy asshole. (Edit: I'm saying this only because I don't think it's Bioware's intended portrayal of him, and I think they should do something about it).
(I also saw that the in-game reason for it was that Lucanis had "no time" for Rook following the decision, which sounds like a condescending lie from the devs if he can then have time for Neve.) I'm really puzzled by this. So he only does this to a Shadow Dragon Rook? Like he is punishing them for choosing their own friends and relatives over his? I have to admit if he then goes ahead and romances Neve it is adding salt to he wound. However, if he had actually been depicted as a cold-hearted ruthless Crow up to then it might be understandable but he seemed such a mild mannered reasonable guy from what I've seen. Also, he does owe Rook a bit of slack for getting him out of the Ossuary. The only narrative explanation I can find for this is the influence of Spite because that does sound spiteful.
If this happened to you, did you definitely do all the possible Treviso quests up to the point where you had to make the decision? Otherwise, if this is based off hearsay, then perhaps the person who experienced this didn't max out the personal and faction quests, so his approval was too low to make his romance a viable option going forward.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 11, 2024 18:21:04 GMT
I don't think it's very fair that Lucanis reacts so differently to the decision, but real life isn't fair either so at least it's not wildly unrealistic, even if we as players expect to be treated fairly by the game.
For me the real problem is Lucanis rejecting Rook and then turning around and bedding their close friend. It's absolutely adding insult to injury and frankly, I think it makes him look like a sleazy asshole. (Edit: I'm saying this only because I don't think it's Bioware's intended portrayal of him, and I think they should do something about it).
(I also saw that the in-game reason for it was that Lucanis had "no time" for Rook following the decision, which sounds like a condescending lie from the devs if he can then have time for Neve.) I'm really puzzled by this. So he only does this to a Shadow Dragon Rook? Like he is punishing them for choosing their own friends and relatives over his? I have to admit if he then goes ahead and romances Neve it is adding salt to he wound. However, if he had actually been depicted as a cold-hearted ruthless Crow up to then it might be understandable but he seemed such a mild mannered reasonable guy from what I've seen. Also, he does owe Rook a bit of slack for getting him out of the Ossuary. The only narrative explanation I can find for this is the influence of Spite because that does sound spiteful.
If this happened to you, did you definitely do all the possible Treviso quests up to the point where you had to make the decision? Otherwise, if this is based off hearsay, then perhaps the person who experienced this didn't max out the personal and faction quests, so his approval was too low to make his romance a viable option going forward. Admittedly, it is hearsay at this stage, but a number of people are quite upset about it on SM (reddit, EA forums etc).
I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, though, because the main concern for me is a consistent representation of his character.
If this is about his overall state of mind, then that should reflect in his interactions with everyone. If he's devastated by Treviso and doesn't have the emotional availability for a romance, then he shouldn't be involved in *any* romance.
Otoh if it's intentional that his anger is directed at Rook, and he's petty enough to blame Rook for Treviso, or if it's Spite who's affecting his feelings and thoughts, then I would really like to know, because then I would have completely misread his character.
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Post by coldwetn0se on Nov 11, 2024 18:50:22 GMT
Not hearsay. I finished the game on Saturday, with a sad-sack Rook. I attempted a completionist run and tried to romance Lucanis. I was also a Shadow Dragon Elf rogue. I knew about the choice ahead of time (spoiled myself on much of the game prior to purchase), but was still under the impression that both Neve and Lucanis could still be romanced, but that it would be slow. And of course, they would be hardened, based on which city you chose to aid. Since I already knew about this choice, I did everything possible in Treviso prior to committing to the binary choice. The one thing I didn't do was purchase Lucanis' gift. However, the gift only raises the approval by a small margin, as far as my testing went. In the end, I really didn't care about not romancing him. However, incorrect intel regarding this scenario meant that I lost my chance to romance any of the other companions. It was suggested that it was just a "slow burn", or that it may be a "bug". So I kept playing. Of course, by the time I realized that there was no romance to be had with him, there were no flirts available for any of the companions. I had also just finished the Heart of Corruption which absolutely sucked! I am not good with twitch combat (played on Keeper difficulty) and even rebinding some of the keys for KB+M, this game seems made for a controller. I was too exhausted to scrap 15+ hours just for romance content. I might go back some time later, since I did miss out on a couple of achievements (didn't go for the last piece for the secret ending), and try a different companion. We'll see. *shrug*
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 11, 2024 19:15:18 GMT
His romance is locked if Minrathous is saved. A lot of people are unhappy about it though considering the fact that Neve can be romanced if Treviso is saved, maybe Bioware will change it someday to make it more even.
His slowburn (no-burn actually!) romance wouldn't bother me, however, he flirts with Neve all the time while ignoring Rook's advances, which makes it seem like he likes her more. Even romance scenes are similar: I just got a scene where he bakes a cake for Rook, he does the same for Neve if neither are romanced. I can't believe Bioware couldn't be bothered to write a different scene for player character.
Maybe their romance was written before Rook/Lucanis, causing the discrepancy.
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Post by melbella on Nov 11, 2024 19:56:33 GMT
Aww, I'm sorry. I'm glad I went with my gut and picked Treviso, just in case that happened. I do think this result is unfair to Rook but not necessarily unfair to the player. I'm at work right now....I'll try to elaborate more when I get home.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Nov 11, 2024 23:00:38 GMT
His romance is locked if Minrathous is saved. A lot of people are unhappy about it though considering the fact that Neve can be romanced if Treviso is saved, maybe Bioware will change it someday to make it more even.
His slowburn (no-burn actually!) romance wouldn't bother me, however, he flirts with Neve all the time while ignoring Rook's advances, which makes it seem like he likes her more. Even romance scenes are similar: I just got a scene where he bakes a cake for Rook, he does the same for Neve if neither are romanced. I can't believe Bioware couldn't be bothered to write a different scene for player character.
Maybe their romance was written before Rook/Lucanis, causing the discrepancy.
I was just gonna ask that, can you still romance Neve if Treviso is saved? BioWare should patch that, because it sounds like sexist bullsh*t. Plus, particularly for a Mercar, not saving Minrathous might be totally out of character. Just because I left your city and your people to die and be blighted and destroyed, you won't d1ck me down? That's unreasonable. I was protecting my hometown, too. "Oh honey, Neve. I want Neve, I don't wanna lose this team and Neve..." STFU, Lucanis. Yeah, you're such a catch, a tiny possessed assassin. B*tches are lining up to blow you. Go drink some more coffee.
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Post by melbella on Nov 12, 2024 1:49:00 GMT
Aww, I'm sorry. I'm glad I went with my gut and picked Treviso, just in case that happened. I do think this result is unfair to Rook but not necessarily unfair to the player. I'm at work right now....I'll try to elaborate more when I get home.
Let me see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense. I think if the romances were gated like Solas or Cullen in DAI, then this choice would be very unfair to the player. But, since any Rook can romance any of the companions, that means what you do is more important to them than what you are. Neve is kinda jaded and, I dunno, maybe a bit used to disappointment, but she moves on from it, takes the next case. Meanwhile, Lucanis is suffering a huge trauma inflicted upon him, followed by losing his grandmother the second he returns, then followed by the person who just rescued him basically, in his mind, stabbing him the back by letting Treviso fall. I can completely understand why he wouldn't want to open up to that person on a romantic level. I would hate it as a player if it happened, but I'd understand it.
I totally jacked up my Shadow Dragon Rook by picking Treviso, but Lucanis was the main reason for it. And now, having finished the game, there's another: Minrathous gets crushed anyway in Act 3. I much prefer having at least one city in Thedas not blighted.
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Post by mattjamho on Nov 12, 2024 10:27:44 GMT
Melbella you put it into words perfectly, a very good read on both Lucanis and Neve’s personalities. And also: The guy is possessed by a demon of Spite, I’m not surprised he doesn’t want to romance Rook after they don’t save Treviso. I too saved Treviso in case it affected his Romance so I’m glad I did. But I don’t think I’ll be romancing him again in future playthroughs. It’s faaaar to slow a burn and the romance scenes are so few and far between I didn’t feel like we were even together. I’ll let him and Neve have their Noir Romance novel fling instead
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 12, 2024 13:58:42 GMT
Let me see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense. Okay, so now I understand what Mary Kirby meant by a dumpster fire of a relationship. This isn't a bug and it won't be patched because it was deliberate. No doubt Mary Kirby had a similar sort of rationale to you Melbella. I don't necessarily agree with it but I respect the writer's choice to opt for it. I hope that makes sense. Personally speaking, if he does that after you saved him from the Ossuary and then dealt with and supported him through all the other issues in his family, then screw him honey, you deserve better.
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Post by merane on Nov 12, 2024 14:35:05 GMT
Aww, I'm sorry. I'm glad I went with my gut and picked Treviso, just in case that happened. I do think this result is unfair to Rook but not necessarily unfair to the player. I'm at work right now....I'll try to elaborate more when I get home.
Let me see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense. I think if the romances were gated like Solas or Cullen in DAI, then this choice would be very unfair to the player. But, since any Rook can romance any of the companions, that means what you do is more important to them than what you are. Neve is kinda jaded and, I dunno, maybe a bit used to disappointment, but she moves on from it, takes the next case. Meanwhile, Lucanis is suffering a huge trauma inflicted upon him, followed by losing his grandmother the second he returns, then followed by the person who just rescued him basically, in his mind, stabbing him the back by letting Treviso fall. I can completely understand why he wouldn't want to open up to that person on a romantic level. I would hate it as a player if it happened, but I'd understand it.
I totally jacked up my Shadow Dragon Rook by picking Treviso, but Lucanis was the main reason for it. And now, having finished the game, there's another: Minrathous gets crushed anyway in Act 3. I much prefer having at least one city in Thedas not blighted.
I totally agree with you about Lucanis' personality. It makes sense that he wouldn't jump on the romance bandwagon right away, but that didn't stop us from having our Rook build a deep friendship with Lucanis, becoming a trusted and supportive person that later, when Lucanis was in a better place, with his issues more or less resolved and in a better headspace, would evolve into a romantic and sexual connection.
But the problem is that he ignores you for most of Act 2. You have this great bonding moment at the Café, then it's complete oblivion and all of a sudden, you're back on his radar. He also has the least amount of walking and chatting and sharing an activity.
I think a scene where you interrupt him in the process of making his coffee, 100% homemade, where he agrees to show you the experience and where you end up discussing the fact that an activity that he is so passionate about and that is synonymous with relaxation, well-being has become a bit of a chore because he mainly drinks coffee to not sleep because of Spite - bonus point for developing his relationship and his history with Spite - would have been a nice scene to deepen your relationship and show your support.
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Post by mattjamho on Nov 12, 2024 14:52:40 GMT
Agreed, his romance is missing an extra romance scene somewhere between the cafe and the night before the big battle. So many in game hours pass between those two scenes, they feel ages apart. My Rook felt pretty single for most of the game.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 12, 2024 15:12:19 GMT
I don't know, I think that "I'll only trust you if you save my city for me, and leave the other city to burn" is a weird and infantile way to look at this difficult situation. And his decision to dump you and romance Neve instead shows him in an even more unflattering light. Spiteful, egocentric people exist in abundance in our world, and they're the actual villains here, we don't need those as romances in a game. So I was holding on to the hope that that characterisation was unintended, but if it's intended, then it's incredibly disappointing. And "ick", to use a common Thedosian expression, according to DAV.
The problem is, I cannot find anyone else to romance. I'm half-heartedly choosing the romance dialogue for Neve and Emmrich, but eh. I wish I could be more excited about Emmrich, but I'm not.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 12, 2024 17:03:18 GMT
Spiteful, egocentric people exist in abundance in our world, and they're the actual villains here, we don't need those as romances in a game. This is why. You said it yourself, so you understand. Lucanis is possessed by Spite. He will exhibit some of its features, much like Anders and vengeance
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Post by coldwetn0se on Nov 12, 2024 17:49:32 GMT
Honestly, for myself only, I didn't really care. I am a bit too apathetic on the companions to be bothered. The biggest problem I had was that there probably should have been a short dialogue of him saying something like "I cannot move on with the one who chose to let my city burn." Harsh, but fair. It would also point the finger directly at Rook, establishing that he does in fact blame Rook, even though Neve was there urging a Shadow Dragon Rook to "save their city". Not to mention, it would also clue a new player in, that they need to move on to another companion, or choose to stay alone.
Just my thoughts.
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roselavellan
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 12, 2024 17:50:30 GMT
Spiteful, egocentric people exist in abundance in our world, and they're the actual villains here, we don't need those as romances in a game. This is why. You said it yourself, so you understand. Lucanis is possessed by Spite. He will exhibit some of its features, much like Anders and vengeance I know, but I thought he was resisting Spite. *cries* They seemed to be more separate than, say, Anders and Justice. Lucanis also seems to be very much aware of the dangers of spite, so I thought he was less susceptible to its influence. Also, what's the point of resolving the Spite issue if Lucanis is going to remain spiteful? (I haven't finished the game yet, so this may end up being a rhetorical question).
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Post by theratpack55 on Nov 12, 2024 19:33:13 GMT
Spiteful, egocentric people exist in abundance in our world, and they're the actual villains here, we don't need those as romances in a game. This is why. You said it yourself, so you understand. Lucanis is possessed by Spite. He will exhibit some of its features, much like Anders and vengeance Eh, my personal issue is not with the choice and its consequences, it with the fact that it's never addressed. There was plenty of talk about Anders and Vengeance and how they influenced each other, leading to the DA2 ending, but Spite and his effect on Lucanis just gets ignored in the narrative afterwards. So I'm left to wonder, am I overthinking this, is this my headcanon? I love choices that outright lock you out of stuff in RPGs, that's actually part of the essence of a good RPG for me, but I need for those choices to be explored, I want emotional conversations with companions who no longer care that much for you because of your decisions. There's nothing like that in DAV that I've seen so far.
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merane
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Post by merane on Nov 12, 2024 19:38:37 GMT
This is why. You said it yourself, so you understand. Lucanis is possessed by Spite. He will exhibit some of its features, much like Anders and vengeance Eh, my personal issue is not with the choice and its consequences, it with the fact that it's never addressed. There was plenty of talk about Anders and Vengeance and how they influenced each other, leading to the DA2 ending, but Spite and his effect on Lucanis just gets ignored in the narrative afterwards. So I'm left to wonder, am I overthinking this, is this my headcanon? I love choices that outright lock you out of stuff in RPGs, that's actually part of the essence of a good RPG for me, but I need for those choices to be explored, I want emotional conversations with companions who no longer care that much for you because of your decisions. There's nothing like that in DAV that I've seen so far. I sometimes feel like Spite was just added for the cool wings and to continue having a possessed companion without really thinking about the implications. And the cohabitation issue is quickly resolved and they are super buddy and the subject is not brought up again - maybe in act 3 but I don't see that happening.
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Post by theratpack55 on Nov 12, 2024 19:48:55 GMT
Eh, my personal issue is not with the choice and its consequences, it with the fact that it's never addressed. There was plenty of talk about Anders and Vengeance and how they influenced each other, leading to the DA2 ending, but Spite and his effect on Lucanis just gets ignored in the narrative afterwards. So I'm left to wonder, am I overthinking this, is this my headcanon? I love choices that outright lock you out of stuff in RPGs, that's actually part of the essence of a good RPG for me, but I need for those choices to be explored, I want emotional conversations with companions who no longer care that much for you because of your decisions. There's nothing like that in DAV that I've seen so far. I sometimes feel like Spite was just added for the cool wings and to continue having a possessed companion without really thinking about the implications. And the cohabitation issue is quickly resolved and they are super buddy and the subject is not brought up again - maybe in act 3 but I don't see that happening.
And there was such potential for character exploration there. The *big decision* was great grounds to see how having a literal embodiment of spite in you could affect your relationships and your path. But... nothing. Let's just forget that ever happened and move on.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 12, 2024 23:10:22 GMT
Spiteful, egocentric people exist in abundance in our world, and they're the actual villains here, we don't need those as romances in a game. This is why. You said it yourself, so you understand. Lucanis is possessed by Spite. He will exhibit some of its features, much like Anders and vengeance Spite is actually the spirit of Determinaton (it's called that in game). Unlike Anders, Lucanis and Spite find a way to peacefully coexsit and Spite is not bent out of shape anymore to be just a negative aspect of itself, even if most everyone still calls it Spite - in that way, Lucanis is more like Wynne or Cassandra (who coexists peacefully - if not fully consciously - with spirit of Faith that gives her unique powers with no need of chugging lyrium), and not like Anders, who's never found a way to peacefully coexist with Justice.
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