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Post by fylimar on Jul 28, 2024 7:49:26 GMT
I had a discussion elsewhere with Solas fans, who called me stupid for not trusting him. And I'm pretty suspicious of him. I really don't think you are the stupid one. As I've been saying elsewhere, I may take his advice on how to deal with other threats but always with caution. However, I will never trust him again. Perhaps I may have more confidence if he admits to absorbing Mythal. That would at least display as degree of honesty and trust in Rook but so long as he keeps that information to himself, then as a player I know he is still the same Solas that betrayed my Inquisitor. The problem is role playing my Rook when it comes to meta knowledge. However, I assume they have been briefed by Varric concerning him so it is not as though they haven't been warned. I'm fairly confident that Solas won't approve of Emmrich and the feeling will probably be mutual. Totally agree with you. If he isn't completely honest, I won't trust him as far as I can throw him without magic. And yeah, I think, Varric will have briefed us, so that we don't need to be cautious of meta gaming.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 28, 2024 18:39:42 GMT
I had a discussion elsewhere with Solas fans, who called me stupid for not trusting him. And I'm pretty suspicious of him. I really don't think you are the stupid one. As I've been saying elsewhere, I may take his advice on how to deal with other threats but always with caution. However, I will never trust him again. Perhaps I may have more confidence if he admits to absorbing Mythal. That would at least display as degree of honesty and trust in Rook but so long as he keeps that information to himself, then as a player I know he is still the same Solas that betrayed my Inquisitor. That assumes that what we saw was indeed "absorption", when we do have a dev note spelling out directly that Mythal has handed her power to Solas (and even had specific conditions under which it was given to him). See, this is the problem I have - and this is not about Solas. These are my objections as someone who dabbles with storytelling and has always found this bothersome: the story is still ongoing; it's painfully clear that we don't have full information at this point in time, and yet the character is judged based on things that may not be what they seem, or the context of their actions may be different to the one that is assumed. Maybe it will turn out to be just as simple as Solas killing Mythal to gain power, and that's basically it - but until we progress further in the story, we simply do not know. So, it's very bizarre to me to demand a character to fulfill a condition ("I'll trust him only if he does this or that") based on assumptions that may not be correct at all, or aren't the full story.
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Post by Reznore on Jul 28, 2024 20:29:32 GMT
So I heard the voice actor talking about Em, and it sounded like the guy was a midwife for the dying. He used the word "kind" quite a bit. This leaves me confused because Necromancers deal with dead bodies and spirits. As far as we know spirits =/= souls. And I never got the feeling the Necropolis was an hospice.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 29, 2024 7:11:18 GMT
So I heard the voice actor talking about Em, and it sounded like the guy was a midwife for the dying. He used the word "kind" quite a bit. This leaves me confused because Necromancers deal with dead bodies and spirits. As far as we know spirits =/= souls. And I never got the feeling the Necropolis was an hospice. I think what he was saying is that Emmrich sees himself that way. So he genuinely believes he is being kind and doing a service to these spirits. Now I'm pretty sure Solas wouldn't agree with him and I'm not entirely convinced myself that Necromancy is grounded in kindness but something rather darker, even if the Mortalitassi aren't aware or will not admit it if they do know. I'm always mindful of the fact that Quentin used Nercomancy to utilise the body parts of those women to reproduce his dead wife and then the spirits of his victims to animate it. That was evil. However, I suppose Emmrich would argue that was a perversion of their art. It does seem to be connected with what Ghil (implied) seemed to be doing in those codices in Trespasser, resulting in that strange armour, The Skin That Stalks, the original process for creating it sounding really dodgy. Eventually, Ghil's experiments would seem to have led to monster creation and the pools in the Horror of Hormack. May be she was the original Necromancer, possibly working in cahoots with Falon'din, the God of the Dead. I'm pretty sure one of the gods is going to be interested in the Grand Necropolis. I originally thought it likely to be Elgar'nan but in writing the above I realise actually it is more likely to be Ghilan'nain. I wouldn't be surprised if she originally devised the techniques that were later revived by the mage from Tevinter who founded the Mortalitasi. Like much in Tevinter, she may have based her knowledge on old writings and pictures discovered in elven ruins or consulting with spirits/demons in the Fade/Void. Perhaps the kindly Emmrich is going to have to come to terms with the fact that his Order and their skills are a recreation of something far more sinister and repulsive. I am convinced the Grand Necropolis was already there, buried, when the Order was founded and they simply built on top of it. We shall have to wait and see.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 29, 2024 7:34:24 GMT
That assumes that what we saw was indeed "absorption", when we do have a dev note spelling out directly that Mythal has handed her power to Solas (and even had specific conditions under which it was given to him). Maybe it will turn out to be just as simple as Solas killing Mythal to gain power, and that's basically it - but until we progress further in the story, we simply do not know. Solas didn't kill Mythal. He may have killed Flemeth but Mythal is not dead. She never was entirely as he readily admits in Trespasser. He reminds us of our meeting with Flemeth/Mythal, which is interesting if you met her in the Fade as he wasn't even there. So, was it the Inquisitor, Morrigan or Keiran who revealed that encounter? Or did Solas allude to it because it was there in his memory from Mythal and he felt safe in doing so as we wouldn't question how he knew? I am still at a loss how someone can "hand their power" without some aspect of themselves at the same time, as though Mythal's power was just a computer program that can be downloaded to a different hard-drive. Since Flemeth did die clearly some degree of the life-force keeping her alive must have transferred along with the "power". Flemeth said explicitly to Morrigan that a soul cannot be forced on the unwilling, so Solas accepted the transfer of Mythal to him. Thus, it was not him who killed Flemeth but Mythal leaving her. Mythal killed her original host in order to transfer to a new one. Now it is possible that Flemeth had been warned in advance this was a possibility, which is why she put a piece of herself into the eluvian to ensure her survival, likely to be picked up at some stage by Morrigan, but to all intents and purposes Mythal is now a part of Solas. Further proof of this can be found in Asunder, where the spirit keeping Wynne alive transfers to Evangeline in order to save her from death. In this case Wynne willingly let the spirit go so Evangeline could live. If Flemeth had made a contingency plan, perhaps she let Mythal go willingly too, but it is equally possible that she had no say in the matter and it was Mythal's decision not hers. I've given renewed consideration recently to what went on between Flemeth and Solas in that final exchange. Was it all about who was going to make the exchange? Was Solas actually admitting that he had messed up and so he was the one who should surrender himself but by using the words "old friend" Mythal signaled to him that she accepted his apology and she would go to him? At which point Solas looked up and allowed her in. Watch it again and think about it. Then think again about his attitude to Mythal if you drank from the Well before this occurred and then afterwards when he met us in Trespasser. Is he now being influenced not only by her presence in him but the fact that she spared him, as he would see it, for the sake of her people. Remember his words to Flemeth: "I should pay the price but the people they need me." By transferring to him, Mythal would seem to have concurred with that statement.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Jul 29, 2024 9:15:45 GMT
So I heard the voice actor talking about Em, and it sounded like the guy was a midwife for the dying. He used the word "kind" quite a bit. This leaves me confused because Necromancers deal with dead bodies and spirits. As far as we know spirits =/= souls. And I never got the feeling the Necropolis was an hospice. It's probably a blood magic type of situation, where it starts from a dodgy source and can be used for dodgy or outright evil causes but it also depends on the person. Emmrich is shown in the short stories to be understanding of spirits, more so than his peers, possibly. In The Flame Eternal, he goes on a bit of a detective adventure to figure out a skull was constantly screaming because the spirit inhabiting it had latched itself to the memories of the person the skull used to belong to and it wanted to fulfil the last wish of that person, which was to be laid to rest alongside their lover, so Emmrich finds the lover's grave and puts the skull next to her remains and the screaming stops, the spirit having fulfilled its promise and being able to move on. In Down Among the Dead Men, he and Myrna figure out that Audric wanted to stick around because he had unfulfilled desires (getting back at the one who killed him and becoming an academic) and they want to make sure Audric wants to still remain after he understands he's dead and has dealt with the one who killed him. They tell him he can move on if he wants but, if he wants to stick around for the academic desire, they can give him a place to learn and use his passion for architecture and history until he feels he's fulfilled that lingering desire and he's finally ready to really move on.
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Post by azarhal on Jul 29, 2024 13:46:31 GMT
So I heard the voice actor talking about Em, and it sounded like the guy was a midwife for the dying. He used the word "kind" quite a bit. This leaves me confused because Necromancers deal with dead bodies and spirits. As far as we know spirits =/= souls. And I never got the feeling the Necropolis was an hospice.
Also, the Mortalitasi are priests/priestesses who office funerals.
As far "spirits =/= souls", Here Lies the Abyss opens the way for a Ship of Theseus paradox if you bring Cassandra along (she has unique convo about the Faith spirit).
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 29, 2024 15:52:47 GMT
Also, the Mortalitasi are priests/priestesses who office funerals. See what I say on the Taash thread about name changes. I'm going to be interested to see if the Mortalitasi are mentioned in connection with the Grand Necropolis or everybody will be connected with the Mourn Watch now. The Mortalitasi used to be in charge of the whole thing but times change.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2024 7:56:55 GMT
I've also been wondering again about Emmrich's outfit. I thought in the past that the Mortalitasi were said to be "black robed" but I may be remembering that wrong. However, Nevarra does have a strong connection with dragon hunters and looking at Emmrich's outfit again from the back it occurred to me that perhaps it wasn't meant to be mimicking a serpent so much as a dragon.
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Post by Reznore on Jul 30, 2024 8:07:05 GMT
Poor Em, his outfit looks like a cross of a reptile and Xmas gone wrong.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2024 11:03:03 GMT
The nobility of Nevarra are said to be very fond of their ancestral pageants held in the autumn where they hire actors to re-enact events from their illustrious ancestors' lives, so perhaps he was able to pick his costume up second hand cheaply because naturally they would never want the same one used twice in the pageant. It definitely makes me think of something that would be used at these displays. The Mortalitasi are also said to perform special autumn rites in connection with these pageants, so perhaps he acquired the costume to do with that and then liked it so much he continued to wear it.
It does suggest a certain flamboyance to our Necromancer even if his taste leaves something to be desired. I think he may be a tad eccentric, which is all good to me. I like eccentric.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 31, 2024 19:47:12 GMT
Next up was Nick Boraine (Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Black Sails), who plays Emmrich – a sincere, friendly, and scholarly necromancer who comes complete with a skeletal assistant, Manfred (voiced by Matthew Mercer of Critical Role). “He’s part of the Mourn Watch,” Epler explained, “an elite group of necromancers who are revered in Nevarra, but outside it, they are odd at best and evil at worst. He’s your well meaning but oblivious academic – assumes everyone has an academic’s curiosity, so can be pedantic on select topics.”
While Boraine agreed, he found another aspect of the character even more remarkable: “I love the fact that the writers took Emmerich and explored the whole idea of death and the whole idea of necromancing by bringing kindness into it. I really responded to that and got into that and I know it sounds crazy, but it’s to not have this idea that death is vulgar or something to be terrified about, but something to actually engage with on so many levels. I just love the fact that the writers had the courage to do that in a game like this.”
Barlow chimed in to share insights from her time working with Boraine: “Nick encompasses Emmrich; his sophistication, and eagerness to teach and learn, his hot nerdiness. Often Nick is just playing off of someone making a sound, and he takes it and internalizes it and gives it meaning and care, which is amazing to watch.”blog.bioware.com/2024/07/31/unveiling-the-veilguard-cast-and-characters-detailed-at-san-diego-comic-con/
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Aug 1, 2024 0:52:29 GMT
Was it ever explained why they changed the necromancer magic colour from purple in Inquisition to a sickly green in Veilguard when green colour magic is primarily associated with Veil/Fade magic as seen with the Rift Mage in Inquisition. Not complaining just curious.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 1, 2024 4:04:23 GMT
Was it ever explained why they changed the necromancer magic colour from purple in Inquisition to a sickly green in Veilguard when green colour magic is primarily associated with Veil/Fade magic as seen with the Rift Mage in Inquisition. Not complaining just curious. Well spirits are from the fade so I guess it would make sense that magic drawing them from the fade would be fade green. Possibly it was only purple in inquisition to make it visually distinct from the inquisitors mark powers and now they want it to look different from Rooks purple themeing?
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 1, 2024 7:55:49 GMT
Was it ever explained why they changed the necromancer magic colour from purple in Inquisition to a sickly green in Veilguard when green colour magic is primarily associated with Veil/Fade magic as seen with the Rift Mage in Inquisition. Not complaining just curious. I think you have your answer there. The Necromancer has a lot of dealings with the spirits of the Fade and perhaps they wanted to emphasise that it was more neutral in its alignment. Spirit magic was already colour coded green in DAI, although it was pale blue in DAO, whilst nature magic was green, then in DA2 the spirit magic was colour coded purple and creation magic was green, so they have kept on changing this from game to game. Storm magic was colour coded light purple in DAI and they probably only opted for dark purple instead of black for Necromancy so it would seem less sinister. Plus purple is now associated with the game itself and the Veilguard organisation. For whatever reason they preferred to colour code Lucanis as purple out of our companions and Emmrich as green. I can understand the latter because of his specialism but await the explanation for this choice for Lucanis in game. However, the Shadow rogue specialism was colour coded purple in DA2, so there is a link there and Lucanis very much likes to work in the shadows and it is possible some of his unique abilities include some of those from the Shadow specialism. (Shadow was my favourite rogue specialism in DAA and DA2, so I was sorry not to see it in DAI although there was some echo of it in the Subterfuge skills, which were also colour coded purple).
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Single-player only =)
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Post by SilentK on Aug 1, 2024 12:15:55 GMT
So I heard the voice actor talking about Em, and it sounded like the guy was a midwife for the dying. He used the word "kind" quite a bit. This leaves me confused because Necromancers deal with dead bodies and spirits. As far as we know spirits =/= souls. And I never got the feeling the Necropolis was an hospice.
Also, the Mortalitasi are priests/priestesses who office funerals.
As far "spirits =/= souls", Here Lies the Abyss opens the way for a Ship of Theseus paradox if you bring Cassandra along (she has unique convo about the Faith spirit).
Thank you!
That was really interesting and something that makes me really interested in knowing more about the Mourn Watch or what the faction was called.
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 2, 2024 2:19:03 GMT
This guy better talk like Vincent Price or I will be enraged.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Aug 3, 2024 13:38:47 GMT
Just to clarify, is a Mourn Watch Rook a member of the Mortalitasi even if they are not a Mage?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 3, 2024 14:15:10 GMT
Just to clarify, is a Mourn Watch Rook a member of the Mortalitasi even if they are not a Mage? Mortalitasi are mages only, I believe.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Aug 3, 2024 15:04:12 GMT
Just to clarify, is a Mourn Watch Rook a member of the Mortalitasi even if they are not a Mage? Mortalitasi are mages only, I believe. Good to know. This will definitely be my first Rook. I recently got more interested in them after going over all the lore.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 3, 2024 16:35:47 GMT
Mortalitasi are mages only, I believe. Good to know. This will definitely be my first Rook. I recently got more interested in them after going over all the lore. Yes, from the way I understand it, only mages can be Mortalitasi but both Mortalitasi and non-mages can be members of the Mourn Watch. One of the Warrior specialisms is connected with the Mourn Watch: Reaper: uses night blades to steal health from foes, risking death to gain supernatural abilities. Sounds like the night blades have special vampiric abilities. Whether they are enchanted weapons or magical spirit weapons remains to be seen but there does seem to be a tendency to give hybrid, cross-class abilities both to the companions and as our specialisms. Reaper may well be some variant on the Spirit Warrior that we haven't seen since DAA. If it is, I might actually be tempted to play a Warrior first run. Normally my favourite class is mage, followed by rogue but Spirit Warrior has always interested me.
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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by jennica on Aug 3, 2024 16:43:51 GMT
Good to know. This will definitely be my first Rook. I recently got more interested in them after going over all the lore. Yes, from the way I understand it, only mages can be Mortalitasi but both Mortalitasi and non-mages can be members of the Mourn Watch. One of the Warrior specialisms is connected with the Mourn Watch: Reaper: uses night blades to steal health from foes, risking death to gain supernatural abilities. Sounds like the night blades have special vampiric abilities. Whether they are enchanted weapons or magical spirit weapons remains to be seen but there does seem to be a tendency to give hybrid, cross-class abilities both to the companions and as our specialisms. Reaper may well be some variant on the Spirit Warrior that we haven't seen since DAA. If it is, I might actually be tempted to play a Warrior first run. Normally my favourite class is mage, followed by rogue but Spirit Warrior has always interested me. Reaver seems to be similar to Reaver, rather than Spirit Warrior, at least gameplay wise.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 3, 2024 17:12:53 GMT
Reaver seems to be similar to Reaver, rather than Spirit Warrior, at least gameplay wise. Possibly but it is strange they didn't just go with Reaver again then. In some ways it would fit with a faction associated with Nevarra because of the idea that you have to drink the blood of dragons to acquire the ability and the country is renowned for its dragon slayers, who no doubt gained their strength because of drinking the blood of the dragons they killed. Cassandra even references this if the Inquisitor takes it as a specialism and says her family members became aggressive and dragon-like as a result. So either it is pretty much the same class as Reaver but they changed a letter in the name because of the association with death, you know the Grim Reaper, or because it does have abilities that derive from a different source. The Wiki says that originally the Reaver specialism was taught to human fighters by demons, so when dragons started to become rarer, making it more difficult to acquire the necessary blood (although wyvern blood can also be used) perhaps the spirits/demons came up with an alternative source from which to derive their powers. Perhaps there is going to be less emphasis on deriving strength from the pain of your own wounds and blood lust in attacking your enemies, which always put me off the specialism as it sounded a bit sado-masochistic, and more on spiritual attacks like those in the Entropy School in DAO which could drain health and heal you at the same time but would be linked with a faction that specialises in spirit magic associated with the life force and death.
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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 694 Likes: 1,533
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Nov 21, 2024 11:06:56 GMT
1,533
jennica
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
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Mar 29, 2017 10:24:07 GMT
March 2017
jennica
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by jennica on Aug 3, 2024 17:27:51 GMT
So either it is pretty much the same class as Reaver but they changed a letter in the name because of the association with death, you know the Grim Reaper, or because it does have abilities that derive from a different source. I think an explanation for Reaper's abilities will definitely be something related to spirit magic, but mechanically it will be similar to Reaver. Bioware described Reaper as someone who "risks death to gain unnatural powers". Sounds a lot like Reaver to me. I mean, Iron Bull did a lot of dying in one of my playthroughs
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
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31,095
gervaise21
13,071
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2024 7:09:57 GMT
I mean, Iron Bull did a lot of dying in one of my playthroughs Yes, somehow he didn't seem to have got the balance right on that one. You are meant to get stronger and more effective in landing blows, the more pain you feel, even though you may be losing health, but whenever I took Iron Bull with me I found the same thing as you, either he was the first to hit the deck or he used up all my healing potions keeping himself in the fight. In the end I altered the setting so that he didn't automatically drink a potion when his health fell below a certain level but that meant he spent most of the battle unconscious. So, I gave up using him apart from a solitary dragon hunt to get his approval to the level to trigger his personal quest. If Reaper is more like Reaver than presumably Slayer is more like a Beserker, in which case hopefully Taash will draw more on the latter as that specialism is linked to the Lords of Fortune. At least she starts with more armour than Bull.
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