Dukemon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Dukemon11
PSN: dukemon09
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Post by Dukemon on Jun 22, 2024 9:13:37 GMT
Why are we being nagged with corruption again? Why does Bioware keep rewriting the rules just so the developers can tell their story that doesn't stick to the rules of the predecessors? The Gamer article explained this. Apparently it would seem that something is attracting them to the surface, probably the presence of the newly released gods. Actually, DAI was more of an anomaly with the lore because Corypheus was sending out a false Calling, amplified by the Nightmare Demon, yet it only affected the Wardens when in reality it should have triggered a Blight, because the real Calling is just the song of the Old God in its prison. As it was, whilst we had to deal with darkspawn near established entrances to the Deep Roads, they weren't a problem elsewhere. I can only assume that the call of the Old Gods from the Deep Roads had a stronger influence on the darkspawn than Corypheus did (although in Legacy he was attracting them to his prison). If the elven gods are projecting some sort of Calling, then darkspawn coming to the surface in response does make sense. They are, after all, godlike entities and thus way more powerful than Corypheus. Also, if they are in any way connected with the Old Gods, it is possible that the song in the Deep Roads stopped when they were released. But our characters have to deal with the corruption again. In Dragon Age 2 you used the Deep Roads, so here the reason was that we had to deal with the Darkspawn again, but not on the surface. But Bioware decided to have us deal with the Blight AGAIN in the next game? Only to do it again in Dragon Age 4? Can't the authors really think of anything else to write an "exciting" plot for a role-playing game?
Have they ever read through the codex entries from Gaider and Co and the tabletop rules?
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Dukemon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Dukemon11
PSN: dukemon09
Posts: 505 Likes: 301
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Dukemon on Jun 22, 2024 9:24:04 GMT
Wasn't it said back in Dragon Age Origins that the only monsters in Thedas are the Darkspawn and that you rarely have to deal with them between Blights on the surface? And that most of the problems come from the inhabitants of Thedas themselves, through power-hungry fools, raids and other man-made conflicts? Why are we being nagged with Blight again? Why does Bioware keep rewriting the rules just so the developers can tell their story that doesn't stick to the rules of the predecessors? As For the monsters. They are seamonster or dragon, both aren't seen by normal citizens that stay in the cities. And i read the info as an info our HC knows. And i will say: we will deffintly see power-hungry fools. As for the blight there are 2 more that can come. The blight in DAO is the 5th and we know of 7-8 old gods that can start a blight. Yes, i agree the rewriting isn't fun. But hey even book writer do it. Only a few make the effort to write their own lore down to not forget or overlook it.
But centuries lie between two Blights. Not just a few decades. With the PC's knowledge of cultures, societies, rules and laws, I hope Rook isn't some unworldly guy who suddenly just makes a few decisions while the scribes' NPCs drag him around the world by the arm... and say "Take a look at that. What do you want to do now? Isn't that cool. Isn't that fun?" What I found a bit confusing in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 was which codex entries contained information that the PC knows or can know and which information is simply player knowledge. Dragon Age Origins, for example, also worked too often with "fallbacks" before MY mage was allowed to explain magical events to the uninformed. (Example: Connor's possession)
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 22, 2024 9:46:27 GMT
As For the monsters. They are seamonster or dragon, both aren't seen by normal citizens that stay in the cities. And i read the info as an info our HC knows. And i will say: we will deffintly see power-hungry fools. As for the blight there are 2 more that can come. The blight in DAO is the 5th and we know of 7-8 old gods that can start a blight. Yes, i agree the rewriting isn't fun. But hey even book writer do it. Only a few make the effort to write their own lore down to not forget or overlook it.
But centuries lie between two Blights. Not just a few decades. With the PC's knowledge of cultures, societies, rules and laws, I hope Rook isn't some unworldly guy who suddenly just makes a few decisions while the scribes' NPCs drag him around the world by the arm... and say "Take a look at that. What do you want to do now? Isn't that cool. Isn't that fun?" What I found a bit confusing in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 was which codex entries contained information that the PC knows or can know and which information is simply player knowledge. Dragon Age Origins, for example, also worked too often with "fallbacks" before MY mage was allowed to explain magical events to the uninformed. (Example: Connor's possession)
The few decades, you can thank Solas for. And yes Solas is a written character, they could decied differently. But the players love the blight and you know what happends with fan-/dev-favorite. As for the codex i always looks where the codex come from. And if my HC could read or pick them up on the spot.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 22, 2024 10:07:00 GMT
I added a bit to my first response to you that you may have missed. The writer of the Gamer article calls the Lords of Fortune "pirate themed". Ah, I did miss that. If they are indeed literal pirates and nor just being called that by the journalist because of their aesthetic and focus on treasure than it would indeed be odd for them to be unrelated to the Felicisima Armada, and also begs the question of why bioware didn't just tell us it was a rename when Tevinter nights came out same as they told us Ventus was Qarinus when they released dragon age: deception? Seems like a weird thing to be cagey about. And given I don't recall any connection to monster hunting, temple raiding or any other in-land activity from the Armada previously, I'd also have to wonder why bother changing the pirate faction over just making a new group?
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Post by colfoley on Jun 22, 2024 10:39:41 GMT
I mean this is the same guy that called 'the Ghilnain' and 'the Elgar'nan'. So I don't think we should trust him as a 100% reliable source on this.
As for the connection in general I don't really see it. The Pirate Organization can 'dominate' the coast lines as a criminal enterrpise is a lot more then a legit organization. Where its not like we mention the name of an organization every single day so its more then concievable that the characters in universe did not talk about it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2024 11:11:46 GMT
But centuries lie between two Blights. Not just a few decades. Generally it takes longer than a year to end one too, although the time taken got progressively shorter in previous Blights as the Grey Wardens got the hang of what to do to get the Arch-demon within striking distance. Nevertheless, 10 years was the shortest duration previously, for the 4th Blight. The 5th Blight was also unusual in the amount of time that had passed since the previous Blight, so much so that the majority of people in Thedas no longer really worried about the darkspawn or the possibility of another. It was over 400 years between them, nearly twice as long as for any previous gap between the two, yet the Deep Roads were still infested with darkspawn. So, it would seem that the usual pattern was disrupted after the 4th Blight, which makes nothing predictable following the 5th. The reason we have had to deal with something Blight related each game is because the corruption is an ongoing threat that links back to the first game. We destroyed the Arch-demon in DAO and then the Mother in DAA, so the darkspawn returned underground but they were still there as an ever present danger. That was the complaint of the dwarves and the Grey Wardens, that no one seems bothered by the fact the darkspawn are there until they break out on the surface. Then in DA2 we brought the idol to the surface, that is connected to this game, and in the DLC Legacy freed Corypheus, which brought him and the use of red lyrium to the fore in DAI. We were told in DAI how serious it was that red lyrium was now on the surface because of the way it can be "farmed" off living creatures and that it was directly linked to the Blight. Everything is connected and part of an overarching story that was there from the very beginning. Have they ever read through the codex entries from Gaider and Co and the tabletop rules? I have and all the other lore books. My comments are consistent with them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2024 11:28:11 GMT
I'd also have to wonder why bother changing the pirate faction over just making a new group? As for the connection in general I don't really see it. The Pirate Organization can 'dominate' the coast lines as a criminal enterrpise is a lot more then a legit organization. Where its not like we mention the name of an organization every single day so its more then concievable that the characters in universe did not talk about it. These are meant to be major factions in Thedas. Now I acknowledge that the Shadow Dragons are a new thing from the previous games but they arose specifically to counter the continued presence of the Venatori and even included disillusioned former members of that group who were promised outcomes by Corypheus, such as the end of slavery, and then it turned out the majority of Venatori weren't on board with the idea and dropped it once he was no longer their leader. However, the other groups are from factions that we had encountered previously and were important enough to make an impression beyond their home nation. The Mortalitassi are the power behind the throne in Nevarra; the Grey Wardens are important in the Anderfels (and across Thedas); the Crows are significant within Antiva and have a reputation outside of it. Okay, so the Veil Jumpers are new but linked to Arlathan Forest that has always been a bit mysterious and even with them there is reason to suspect we may have heard of some of their members under a different name. It is the Lords of Fortune that seem out of place. If they were important enough as a faction beyond Rivain, we should have heard of them previously. If they dominate the coasts with their shipping, we should have heard of them previously. If their members operate throughout Thedas, including in the Freemarches (where DA2 was based) and originate in Rivain (where Isabella came from) you would have thought someone in world would have mentioned them before now. This is why it makes more sense to me that they are linked in some way with a faction we have previously heard about, that has a wider importance in Thedas and linked to Rivain, than being presented with a group that is meant to have Thedas wide importance but we have never heard of before.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 22, 2024 11:30:14 GMT
I'd also have to wonder why bother changing the pirate faction over just making a new group? As for the connection in general I don't really see it. The Pirate Organization can 'dominate' the coast lines as a criminal enterrpise is a lot more then a legit organization. Where its not like we mention the name of an organization every single day so its more then concievable that the characters in universe did not talk about it. These are meant to be major factions in Thedas. Now I acknowledge that the Shadow Dragons are a new thing from the previous games but they arose specifically to counter the continued presence of the Venatori and even included disillusioned former members of that group who were promised outcomes by Corypheus, such as the end of slavery, and then it turned out the majority of Venatori weren't on board with the idea and dropped it once he was no longer their leader. However, the other groups are from factions that we had encountered previously and were important enough to make an impression beyond their home nation. The Mortalitassi are the power behind the throne in Nevarra; the Grey Wardens are important in the Anderfels (and across Thedas); the Crows are significant within Antiva and have a reputation outside of it. Okay, so the Veil Jumpers are new but linked to Arlathan Forest that has always been a bit mysterious and even with them there is reason to suspect we may have heard of some of their members under a different name. It is the Lords of Fortune that seem out of place. If they were important enough as a faction beyond Rivain, we should have heard of them previously. If they dominate the coasts with their shipping, we should have heard of them previously. If there members operate throughout Thedas, including in the Freemarches (where DA2 was based) and originate in Rivain (where Isabella came from) you would have thought someone in world would have mentioned them before now. This is why it makes more sense to me that they are linked in some way with a faction we have previously heard about, that has a wider importance in Thedas and linked to Rivain, than being presented with a group that is meant to have Thedas wide importance but we have never heard of before. I never make that assumption. Do you mention every single organization on a day to day basis that is important in your life?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2024 11:48:03 GMT
I never make that assumption. Do you mention every single organization on a day to day basis that is important in your life? Okay, one final try. What about Genitivi? He's pretty widely traveled. He definitely went into the interior in Rivain as well as on the coast. He could tell us about possibly mythical islands to the north of Thedas, ports in the west and possible lands across seas to east and west, yet never thought to mention the Lords of Fortune? Then he is in a story actually employing one of them. I'm sorry but that's always been my problem with the Lords of Fortune since Tevinter Nights. Where have they been all this time that they have never been mentioned anywhere before? Not by characters in the games, even those from Rivain, or in the codices to the games, not in two massive lord books, not in the Core Rule Book, not in the comics, not in any of the novels. The Venatori, the Shadow Dragons, the Veil Jumpers are organisations that arose in response to something specific but why did a group of generic treasure hunters spring out of nowhere in the 4th decade of the Dragon Age, with people employing them to do, often important, jobs, so clearly are aware of their reputation for getting things done? How did they hear of them? I find it even more puzzling considering they are just the sort of organisation that Hawke had something in common with. I could imagine someone saying that we reminded them of the Lords of Fortune up in Rivain. However, I will concede that clearly they wanted an additional faction and treasure hunters sounded cool, so perhaps they just did decide to create them without considering the fact that they seem to have materialised out of nowhere and then gave them a status far exceeding what they ought to enjoy.
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Post by Envisionary on Jun 22, 2024 11:50:02 GMT
Varric is also still a sacrifice he's willing to make. Just not directly, much like the Inquisitor.
I'm sure I did say that Rook would matter to him. As a pawn.
It's weird how the plan has suddenly shifted from restoring his people at any cost to "the survival of Thedas" when that wasn't the case before. Nonetheless, Felassan was outright killed by Solas for having the audacity to fail him. Of all punishments, murder?
If Varric/Inky is a sacrifice he's willing to make, why didn't he kill them when he's had the opportunity? It's Solas allowing them to live and chase after him that has ultimately led to the disruption of his ritual. It's not weird if you actually listen to what he says, or muse a little about who "his people" are, and what he intends to restore. And yes, it was pretty much always about the survival of Thedas - just like it was when he pushed away the Fade (a thing he dearly loved) from the world and destroyed Elvenhan, but saved the world and the people from Evanuris destroying the entire world. The same gods he intended to still contain, away from Thedas. From perspective of Solas at the time, Felassan was a traitor. You know, quite like...: Btw. Leliana and hardening/unhardening her is deliberately written in Inquisition as a mirror of Solas.
He can't will himself to pull the trigger directly. He'll allow the chaos he sows to do the job for him, much like he did when he condemned his people to their tragic fate when he put the Veil in place to begin with. He does what he does then the consequences aren't something he has to look at when he goes to sleep, or in this case, back to his ideal world.
It was never about Thedas to him, in the same way it was never about freeing his people from the gods' slavery, it was about Mythal. He specifically says he did what he did because they killed Mythal. It's telling that he doesn't even care about Mythal owning slaves but uses their injustice as a rallying call to suit his needs anyway. Then again, disposed.
The 'treason' being that he dared to disobey him. He's much like the other Evanuris is this way.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 22, 2024 11:56:38 GMT
The mourn watch, shadown dragons, Lords of Fortune and Veil Jumpers are all new. And quite frankly their names sounds stupid to me. It's one of those thing I refuse to think about too much.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 22, 2024 11:57:21 GMT
I never make that assumption. Do you mention every single organization on a day to day basis that is important in your life? Okay, one final try. What about Genitivi? He's pretty widely traveled. He definitely went into the interior in Rivain as well as on the coast. He could tell us about possibly mythical islands to the north of Thedas, ports in the west and possible lands across seas to east and west, yet never thought to mention the Lords of Fortune? Then he is in a story actually employing one of them. I'm sorry but that's always been my problem with the Lords of Fortune since Tevinter Nights. Where have they been all this time that they have never been mentioned anywhere before? Not by characters in the games, even those from Rivain, or in the codices to the games, not in two massive lord books, not in the Core Rule Book, not in the comics, not in any of the novels. The Venatori, the Shadow Dragons, the Veil Jumpers are organisations that arose in response to something specific but why did a group of generic treasure hunters spring out of nowhere in the 4th decade of the Dragon Age, with people employing them to do, often important, jobs, so clearly are aware of their reputation for getting things done? How did they hear of them? I find it even more puzzling considering they are just the sort of organisation that Hawke had something in common with. I could imagine someone saying that we reminded them of the Lords of Fortune up in Rivain. However, I will concede that clearly they wanted an additional faction and treasure hunters sounded cool, so perhaps they just did decide to create them without considering the fact that they seem to have materialised out of nowhere and then gave them a status far exceeding what they ought to enjoy. The problem i have with them is that we know nothing about them. Yes that goes for the veil jumper as well, but with them it is more of a mythery. And that makes me want to find out more. The lord of fortun are their no connection no mystery. Sadly very boring in my eyes. They have to give me something that i want to play them.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 22, 2024 11:58:47 GMT
The mourn watch, shadown dragons, Lords of Fortune and Veil Jumpers are all new. And quite frankly their names sounds stupid to me. It's one of those thing I refuse to think about too much. No mourn watch was mentioned in DAI by Cassandra.
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The Loyal Nub
N3
The Maker Take You
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jun 22, 2024 12:00:10 GMT
The mourn watch, shadown dragons, Lords of Fortune and Veil Jumpers are all new. And quite frankly their names sounds stupid to me. It's one of those thing I refuse to think about too much. I don't know I quite like two of them myself. Dragons relates to Tevinter so the name Shadow Dragons for a anti-slavery, Tevinter Abolitionist movement, rings true. Veil Jumpers sounds like something a bunch of Punk Rock kids would come up with for surfing Arlathan Forest.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 22, 2024 12:02:50 GMT
The mourn watch, shadown dragons, Lords of Fortune and Veil Jumpers are all new. And quite frankly their names sounds stupid to me. It's one of those thing I refuse to think about too much. No mourn watch was mentioned in DAI by Cassandra. Cassandra talks about Mortalitasi.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 22, 2024 12:05:22 GMT
Those names are ... fine? "Grey Warden" is the first faction we ever met and the name is pretty dumb when you think of it. What does "Grey" have anything to do with what they do?
At least Shadow Dragons informs you that they are an underground organization in Tevinter (Dragon motif). Veil Jumpers is kinda silly but they do what they say they are. Lords of Fortune is basic sure but it's a mercenary group and those are usually pretty dumb. "Second Sons", "Golden Company", etc are from Game of Thrones and they are similarly named.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jun 22, 2024 12:22:49 GMT
No mourn watch was mentioned in DAI by Cassandra. Cassandra talks about Mortalitasi. The Mourn Watch is the Mortalitasi. They're a select group.
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 22, 2024 12:35:45 GMT
The mourn watch, shadown dragons, Lords of Fortune and Veil Jumpers are all new. And quite frankly their names sounds stupid to me. It's one of those thing I refuse to think about too much. I mean, Lucanis's last name is "Dellamorte". You really wonder what a guy with that name does for a living...
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Post by Envisionary on Jun 22, 2024 12:41:53 GMT
Why do the Shadow Dragons (a name that sounds like a child thought of it) exist when the Lucerni are right there? It seems redundant.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 22, 2024 12:50:21 GMT
Why do the Shadow Dragons (a name that sounds like a child thought of it) exist when the Lucerni are right there? It seems redundant. The shadow dragon are a guerrilla group. They are against the Venatori, against blood magic and against slavery. So everything some of the Lucerni where okay about. They are against the Tevinter system. They want a change.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 22, 2024 13:15:18 GMT
Cassandra talks about Mortalitasi. The Mourn Watch is the Mortalitasi. They're a select group. They are a fraction of the Mortalitasi we never heard about before. The Mortalitasi are not just about taking care of the dead, they also have political power in Nevarra. As far as I understand the Mourn Watch are just the one who take care of the dead and spirits.
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N3
Party like a krogan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 403 Likes: 865
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Post by jennica on Jun 22, 2024 13:24:32 GMT
Why do the Shadow Dragons (a name that sounds like a child thought of it) exist when the Lucerni are right there? It seems redundant. Lucerni is a faction in the Magisterium, Making it one of the possible faction for MC would've been too limiting. Qunari or elf being part of Lucerni wouldn't make any sense.
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Post by jadedragon on Jun 22, 2024 14:13:46 GMT
Those names are ... fine? "Grey Warden" is the first faction we ever met and the name is pretty dumb when you think of it. What does "Grey" have anything to do with what they do? At least Shadow Dragons informs you that they are an underground organization in Tevinter (Dragon motif). Veil Jumpers is kinda silly but they do what they say they are. Lords of Fortune is basic sure but it's a mercenary group and those are usually pretty dumb. "Second Sons", "Golden Company", etc are from Game of Thrones and they are similarly named. I'm not sure how much info you know about Grey Wardens but I am fairly confident the Grey in their name is there because the Faction itself has always been painted as morally Grey or Neutral since Origins. Grey Warden organization itself stays Neutral to all matters in Thedas that is non Blight related. And its membership itsnt just for the morally upstanding. From thieves to nobles membership into the order itself also reflect its Grey Standing. If anythings Grey Wardens name actually makes the most sense of all of the factions especially compared to Shadow Dragons.
I personally don't have a issue with any of the factions or their names but I can understand if they throw people off though. And it honestly seems like they wanted to go with dumbed down faction names vs the ones that already existed that in name felt more cultural to that country. Example, Raiders of the Walking Sea who are also the Felicia Armada have been in Dragon Age since Origins. We even see the Jolly Roger like logo of the Armada in Inquisition in places where treasure hunters and raiders might go. Granted the Lords of Fortune could be apart of the Armada but if they turn out to be something entirely separate it'll be a strange decision to me.
Mourn Watch is another one that came out of no where. I get they are the Mortalitasi but more of the guardian or militant part of it. But if that fact is also true then that means there was no reason we didn't hear about them in Inquisition. Because if the Mortalitasi was requested to send a trainer to train the Inquisiton in necromancy to close the Breach, Viuus are trainer could've mentioned he was from that sub group because if he isnt that makes even less sense.
Shadow Dragon probably the laziest name but faction i might actually join first. While Dragons are a big thing in Tevinter having Dragon in your name during the literal Dragon Age doesnt make one jump to think of Tevinter. Especially when taken into account the previous naming pattern of Tevinter factions and places. I do feel like the Lucerni who just like the Shadow Dragons appeared as a result of the Venatori they were at least teased the last game. They were already a faction based on political reform and stopping the Venitori. While Dorian stance on slavery isnt exactly like Calpernia level, the faction Lucerni is still a faction driven by policital reformation they couldve easily wrote in Lucerni leaning towards anti slavery the same way they created the random Shadow Dragons.
Veil Jumpers cant critique much about it considering they name kinda alludes to what they do while still leaving a sense of mystery to exactly what they do which seems to be the point of the faction.
Just wanted to point out I am excited for Veilguard and even though I said what I said Shadow Dragons and Lords of Fortune are gonna be the two I play first. But I am still sticking to my guns that the faction names are more for marketing reasons hence why we have simplified names like its the Americanized version. Example Lucerni-Venetori-ShadowDragons. Felicia Armada-Lords of Fortune. Mortalitasi-Mourn Watch. And again Mourn Watch is a subfaction technically a Lords of Fortune could be the same for the Armada but 6 factions with 2 being the sub faction is a interesting choice to me. Umbra Draco is Latin for Shadow Dragons but actually fits culturally the region its suppose to be set. Hence why I think the names are just easier PR.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Jun 22, 2024 14:49:55 GMT
Mourn Watch is another one that came out of no where. I get they are the Mortalitasi but more of the guardian or militant part of it. But if that fact is also true then that means there was no reason we didn't hear about them in Inquisition. Because if the Mortalitasi was requested to send a trainer to train the Inquisiton in necromancy to close the Breach, Viuus are trainer could've mentioned he was from that sub group because if he isnt that makes even less sense. All mages in Nevarra are Mortalitasi, not all mages in Nevarra work at the Grand Necropolis and of those who work at the Grand Necropolis, not all of them are part of the Mourn Watch since it is the guards and magical investigation branch of the Grand Necropolis and not all members are mages even.
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Post by theascendent on Jun 22, 2024 14:52:30 GMT
Which is a better name Antivan Crows or the House of Crows?
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