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Post by Frost on Jun 30, 2024 16:54:49 GMT
Give me my loud and flashy AOEs and single/multi-target spells please. ![:wizard:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/jnHLyGfxNtJAkpBdNkkm.png) This! I don’t mind dodging a bit, but mages shouldn’t have to parry. I am also not looking forward to light and heavy weapon attacks. To me this is combat designed for martial classes. I want my mage attacks to be lots of spells I can pick, not heavy attacks with a weapon. They only have 3 classes to make. They should have been able to include a traditional mage class rather than homogenizing every class to be a martial class.
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TabithaTH
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Post by TabithaTH on Jun 30, 2024 17:16:55 GMT
iirc, they already mentioned that Warriors block, rogues parry and mages can maintain a magical shield using mana.
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Post by Crom on Jun 30, 2024 17:32:28 GMT
There probably is some variety in the specs themselves.
I mean, evoker has a lot of elements to choose, and probably playstyles, accompanied by the other trees they will delve into. Similarly, spellblade will have some customization as well, what type of weapon, more offensive, more defensive, a bit of both, heavier melee, heavier spell, whatever. If death caller is a summoner and controller, then i'm not sure, but again it's doable.
It's possible you'll get your traditional mage in evoker me thinks.
Just give me options for SWORDS and HEAVY ARMOR for spellblade(if i so choose o.o').
\o/
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Post by punchysporkk on Jun 30, 2024 17:56:18 GMT
Ya know. I can deal with a lot of different varieties of combat. I like turn-based but it gets a bit slow, I like action but sometimes I just wanna relax. If a game has combat that's not working for me, I just turn the difficulty down until I can ignore it and enjoy the story.
What really bothers me about DAV's combat is that we're restricted to only 3 abilities at a time and this is being spun like it's a good thing. How is that good or fun? I can understand only having so many on the ability wheel at a time. I guess. It's good for people using controllers for sure, and you can put your favorite moves there for quick access. But in the past games we've always been able to pull up the ability menu and access the rest of them, and now we cant? I hated that about MEA and they even gave an in-game reason for it with SAM. What's the reason mages will only know 3 spells at a time in DA? Sure, they can shield or dodge or whatever (often less necessary at a distance), but suddenly we forget how to heal cause we decided we needed a fireball? It just seems so pointless. I think it would annoy me less if they stopped trying to insist that it's strategic~
I'm guessing it'll function well enough, like DAI and no normal magic healing, but it just seems like a restriction for no reason. Rogues and warriors probably won't suffer for it, but mages definitely will. I'm going to go back to trying not to dwell on it and instead focus on all the fun story and companion stuff. Hopefully they show us some mid-game mage combat soon and prove me wrong.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 1, 2024 7:26:58 GMT
Just give me options for SWORDS and HEAVY ARMOR for spellblade(if i so choose o.o'). Sorry, but i don't think so. Mage/rogue is way more likely with the crow connection. But maybe reaper is a warrior/mage. It sound very dark magic like and is connected with the mourn watch.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 1, 2024 7:33:55 GMT
Ya know. I can deal with a lot of different varieties of combat. I like turn-based but it gets a bit slow, I like action but sometimes I just wanna relax. If a game has combat that's not working for me, I just turn the difficulty down until I can ignore it and enjoy the story. What really bothers me about DAV's combat is that we're restricted to only 3 abilities at a time and this is being spun like it's a good thing. How is that good or fun? I can understand only having so many on the ability wheel at a time. I guess. It's good for people using controllers for sure, and you can put your favorite moves there for quick access. But in the past games we've always been able to pull up the ability menu and access the rest of them, and now we cant? I hated that about MEA and they even gave an in-game reason for it with SAM. What's the reason mages will only know 3 spells at a time in DA? Sure, they can shield or dodge or whatever (often less necessary at a distance), but suddenly we forget how to heal cause we decided we needed a fireball? It just seems so pointless. I think it would annoy me less if they stopped trying to insist that it's strategic~ I'm guessing it'll function well enough, like DAI and no normal magic healing, but it just seems like a restriction for no reason. Rogues and warriors probably won't suffer for it, but mages definitely will. I'm going to go back to trying not to dwell on it and instead focus on all the fun story and companion stuff. Hopefully they show us some mid-game mage combat soon and prove me wrong. Their could be more than 3 spells. iirc, they already mentioned that Warriors block, rogues parry and mages can maintain a magical shield using mana. when they do more spells like this. The magical shield aka barrier spell will not take a slot from the 3 spell slot. Do that with healing or other spells and the mage will have more spells at hand.
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TheInvoker
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Post by TheInvoker on Jul 1, 2024 10:27:03 GMT
Ya know. I can deal with a lot of different varieties of combat. I like turn-based but it gets a bit slow, I like action but sometimes I just wanna relax. If a game has combat that's not working for me, I just turn the difficulty down until I can ignore it and enjoy the story. What really bothers me about DAV's combat is that we're restricted to only 3 abilities at a time and this is being spun like it's a good thing. How is that good or fun? I can understand only having so many on the ability wheel at a time. I guess. It's good for people using controllers for sure, and you can put your favorite moves there for quick access. But in the past games we've always been able to pull up the ability menu and access the rest of them, and now we cant? I hated that about MEA and they even gave an in-game reason for it with SAM. What's the reason mages will only know 3 spells at a time in DA? Sure, they can shield or dodge or whatever (often less necessary at a distance), but suddenly we forget how to heal cause we decided we needed a fireball? It just seems so pointless. I think it would annoy me less if they stopped trying to insist that it's strategic~ I'm guessing it'll function well enough, like DAI and no normal magic healing, but it just seems like a restriction for no reason. Rogues and warriors probably won't suffer for it, but mages definitely will. I'm going to go back to trying not to dwell on it and instead focus on all the fun story and companion stuff. Hopefully they show us some mid-game mage combat soon and prove me wrong.
Noot just 3. I still hope with M&K will have more than 3 bindable abilities. I also read you can bind allies abilities instead of using them with the wheel. i don't know if all or you have a limit (like it was in ME3) you can also dodge and parry and use the secondary attack (example: the bow in the gameplay trailer) There are a lot of things to use, even if they are not all abilities like we used to have.
As a moba player, to me it's ok. i like to have 6 "things" to do....in LoL i have 4 abilities + 2 summoner's spells. In this game it could be 3 abilities from me + 1 from each companion + dodge + parry + secondary attack....i mean...that's not bad
What is importante is that the abilities are fun to use and we have items/gear to change playstyle (like sigils in DAI and whatever we had in MEA).
If this game will be like MEA, without profiles (so just 3 for use, to choose between 10-11) but with the chance to use companion's abilities like it was in ME3...i'm OK
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Post by Kendaric on Jul 1, 2024 11:32:51 GMT
As a moba player, to me it's ok. i like to have 6 "things" to do....in LoL i have 4 abilities + 2 summoner's spells. In this game it could be 3 abilities from me + 1 from each companion + dodge + parry + secondary attack....i mean...that's not bad Dragon Age isn't a MOBA game though, it's a party-based RPG (or at least it should be). The combat system was the main reason I never got into the ME series (aside from not really liking Sci-Fi stuff unless it's pre-Disney Star Wars or Star Trek: Next Generation). RPGs and action combat rarely mix well, especially as action combat relies on player skill and reflexes whereas RPG combat should rely on the character's stats and abilities. I suspect they'll end up alienating more fans than they actually gain, but we'll see once the game is released.
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Post by TheInvoker on Jul 1, 2024 12:09:09 GMT
i partially agree BUT
MOBA is very RPG...what makes it MOBA is not the combat system but it's that it's online, no pause (of course), same static map, no story etc etc, but the combat is based on your characater's stats. you can buy things to improve one or more stats etc etc. I also like that if you have 100 damage, you do 100 damage (not counting enemy's resistance) like it's also in Mass Effect. In Dragon Age we have floating numbers in a range.....i don't like it
I believe DA was better with the "attack closest enemy" and not with continuos button pressing, OK, but the damage you do is based on your statistics even if it's not fixed as i would prefer Action RPG can be good. it's not true there are no good Combat RPG. have you ever played Vampire Bloodlines? That's the best Action RPG (and even game in general) i have ever played despite i could control only 1 character, i had 3 to 7 abilities (depending on the clan) + 2 fixed (blood abilities)
As long as it's not too fast so that stats are still more important that reflexes and even hardware (not everyone has mice with 12 button or good Pads (if there's someone who wants to play in this way), action RPG is good And for "fast" i don't mean the movement....yes ok..i prefer slow movements too (like in Origins) but the main problem is the damage. i hated ME3 where i was losing the shields as soon as i was out of cover trying to do something. MEA solved this problem, there is no urgency to do things anymore, you don't need covers anymore. You have time to dodge, you have time to parry (there is a biotic shield)
i found MEA combat VERY good.
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jul 1, 2024 12:52:04 GMT
Give me my loud and flashy AOEs and single/multi-target spells please. ![:wizard:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/jnHLyGfxNtJAkpBdNkkm.png) This! I don’t mind dodging a bit, but mages shouldn’t have to parry. I am also not looking forward to light and heavy weapon attacks. To me this is combat designed for martial classes. I want my mage attacks to be lots of spells I can pick, not heavy attacks with a weapon. They only have 3 classes to make. They should have been able to include a traditional mage class rather than homogenizing every class to be a martial class. They mentioned mages conjuring up magical shields, instead. Honestly, can't think of anything cooler for a Mage character. And I'm imagining it's gotta be a little akin to MEA's "Backlash" biotic ability (which was 🔥!) and less like DA's Barrier, as we're used from previous games, just way more dynamic and real-time. Maybe even throw in a little Shield Wall in there (cuz it drains stamina/mana as long as you're holding it up). ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png)
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Post by Kendaric on Jul 1, 2024 13:33:46 GMT
Action RPG can be good. it's not true there are no good Combat RPG. have you ever played Vampire Bloodlines? That's the best Action RPG (and even game in general) i have ever played i can control only 1 character, i have 3 to 7 abilities (depending on the clan) + 2 fixed (blood abilities) Yes, I played Vampire: Bloodlines as I used to be a pretty big fan of the PnP version (Vampire: The Masquerade) but I didn't play it for combat, I played it despite it's combat and in fact went out of my way to avoid combat. It's just not my kind of combat system, it never was and never will be. And now that I'm almost 55, I don't have the reflexes anymore (and as I mentioned earlier my reflexes weren't exactly good to begin with).
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Post by Crom on Jul 2, 2024 17:25:27 GMT
Just give me options for SWORDS and HEAVY ARMOR for spellblade(if i so choose o.o'). Sorry, but i don't think so. Mage/rogue is way more likely with the crow connection. But maybe reaper is a warrior/mage. It sound very dark magic like and is connected with the mourn watch. Honestly? Here's what i think. There is NO way, Spellblades are gonna be mage-rogues only. You can't go in your face melee with only a dagger and cloth. You need defenses and protection. Combat magic is not arcane tricksters. Also, i don't care about this playstyle, because it is aesthetically exclusive. You decide to affiliate someone's favorite spec with murderhobo child abductors. You decide to limit their weapon usage to daggers. What do you get? A melee mage that does the same thing with a dagger that they would do with a sword as well, and whatever armor they choose. There is no distinction between mage rogue and mage warrior in DA gameplay wise, especially when you have like 5 abilities tops. This isn't d&d. So IF it was mage rogue, why would they limit it to that? Besides pissing me off obviously, after all the emphasis and talk about inclusivity. Hey gishes, you are excluded! How about that? Yeah, i don't think so. Reapers do sound interesting, but we'll have to see. We also need to see how are the spellblades associated with crows, because right now we have no idea, and Gameinformer, instead of giving some actual info about gameplay issues that might leave some of us feeling left out, are more concerned to tell me what i already know, that i can customize my character, my pronouns and my difficulty options. Why would you knowingly, deliberately, limit the aesthetic of a melee mage to a dagger wielding rogue wannabe? As an Arcane Warrior or a Knight enchanter, you could mimic almost anything(aesthetically), and still had distinct gameplay. The most popular archetype in rpgs and my favorite is gonna get shafted for association with a dispicable faction like the crows? Not cool. And not inclusive. And that's why i don't think Bioware would do it. P.S. I am very sensitive when it comes to gameplay aesthetics. All the story in the world does not matter to me, if i can't play my favorite archetype.
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Post by Kendaric on Jul 2, 2024 18:31:52 GMT
i can customize my character, my pronouns and my difficulty options. But customizing your pronouns is important to the modern audience ... how dare you state it's unimportant? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/uYQYVMAupPAfTXFFwWlB.png) Why would you knowingly, deliberately, limit the aesthetic of a melee mage to a dagger wielding rogue wannabe? As an Arcane Warrior or a Knight enchanter, you could mimic almost anything(aesthetically), and still had distinct gameplay. The most popular archetype in rpgs and my favorite is gonna get shafted for association with a dispicable faction like the crows? Not cool. And not inclusive. And that's why i don't think Bioware would do it. P.S. I am very sensitive when it comes to gameplay aesthetics. All the story in the world does not matter to me, if i can't play my favorite archetype. I'd wager they'll limit the melee mage specialization to daggers, just as they'll preclude warriors most likely from dual-wielding. Does it make sense? No, but that's nothing their target audience cares about. It's simple as that. But hey, you can have blue or green hair and be an overweight rogue doing flashy looking jump attacks.
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Post by ergates on Jul 3, 2024 13:17:25 GMT
Might be an age thing.
For me personally, as one who's no longer in his 20s the kind of super fast twitch gameplay that Veilguard appears to be offering where success is a measure of you reaction time, accuracy and how fast you can click does not appeal to me anywhere near as much as the tactical combat delivered by earlier games in the series. Old farts such as I have slower reactions, we're not generally as good at twitch games as our teenage counterparts.
As far as I can tell Bioware have not yet released any details on how the Mage class will play, but if it's going to be a case of rapidly spamming left click to launch a spell while constantly trying to aim while dodging and running, and then having to rapidly execute a complex series of key combinations to switch to your second spell then I'm going to be finding it a pretty miserable experience. Hopefully this power wheel thing will be the solution.
That said, if it's anything like Mass Effect I'm sure I'll manage - but then again Mass Effect was a cover shooter where the very act of using cover gave me time to think and plan. Having to plan out all those biotic combos while constantly dancing and leaping around in order to avoid enemy attacks or AOE effects might be a whole different ballgame.
Guess we'll see. All I can say right now is, I have some reservations.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 3, 2024 13:42:32 GMT
Might be an age thing. For me personally, as one who's no longer in his 20s the kind of super fast twitch gameplay that Veilguard appears to be offering where success is a measure of you reaction time, accuracy and how fast you can click does not appeal to me anywhere near as much as the tactical combat delivered by earlier games in the series. Old farts such as I have slower reactions, we're not generally as good at twitch games as our teenage counterparts. As far as I can tell Bioware have not yet released any details on how the Mage class will play, but if it's going to be a case of rapidly spamming left click to launch a spell while constantly trying to aim while dodging and running, and then having to rapidly execute a complex series of key combinations to switch to your second spell then I'm going to be finding it a pretty miserable experience. Hopefully this power wheel thing will be the solution. That said, if it's anything like Mass Effect I'm sure I'll manage - but then again Mass Effect was a cover shooter where the very act of using cover gave me time to think and plan. Having to plan out all those biotic combos while constantly dancing and leaping around in order to avoid enemy attacks or AOE effects might be a whole different ballgame. Guess we'll see. All I can say right now is, I have some reservations. Again the mage have a magic shield. So no dodging. And we have a no die option. So no need of running and spamming left click.
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TheInvoker
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Post by TheInvoker on Jul 3, 2024 13:46:44 GMT
Mass Effect was a cover shooter where the very act of using cover gave me time to think and plan. It was Until the best ME for combat came out (Andromeda). You don't need to cover anymore, at least not in every fight and not so frequently. it also depends on the abilities you pick In ME enemies could all shoot at you. Melee enemies were rare (some animals) so that you need cover more, and as i said even if 95% of the enemies were attacking at range you didn't need cover so badly. in Dragon Age there are more melee enemies than ranged (let's say about 60%-40%?) and all classes can dodge and parry (or use a shield if you are a mage) without taking a specific power like you had to do in MEA
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2024 13:47:42 GMT
Might be an age thing. For me personally, as one who's no longer in his 20s the kind of super fast twitch gameplay that Veilguard appears to be offering where success is a measure of you reaction time, accuracy and how fast you can click does not appeal to me anywhere near as much as the tactical combat delivered by earlier games in the series. Old farts such as I have slower reactions, we're not generally as good at twitch games as our teenage counterparts. As far as I can tell Bioware have not yet released any details on how the Mage class will play, but if it's going to be a case of rapidly spamming left click to launch a spell while constantly trying to aim while dodging and running, and then having to rapidly execute a complex series of key combinations to switch to your second spell then I'm going to be finding it a pretty miserable experience. Hopefully this power wheel thing will be the solution. That said, if it's anything like Mass Effect I'm sure I'll manage - but then again Mass Effect was a cover shooter where the very act of using cover gave me time to think and plan. Having to plan out all those biotic combos while constantly dancing and leaping around in order to avoid enemy attacks or AOE effects might be a whole different ballgame. Guess we'll see. All I can say right now is, I have some reservations. Yea hI had those concerns as well but it sounds like wit hthe custom difficulty settings we migh tb eable to offset a lot of that. As ther aer options lik eauto aim fo rpowers a story mod edifficult yand a no dea thmode as ewl if we'e rtha tdesperatel yfailing to get through .I'm no t saying w ewil lneed the mbut they exist if we do.
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Crom
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morkartheuniter
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Post by Crom on Jul 4, 2024 9:02:27 GMT
i can customize my character, my pronouns and my difficulty options. But customizing your pronouns is important to the modern audience ... how dare you state it's unimportant? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/uYQYVMAupPAfTXFFwWlB.png) Why would you knowingly, deliberately, limit the aesthetic of a melee mage to a dagger wielding rogue wannabe? As an Arcane Warrior or a Knight enchanter, you could mimic almost anything(aesthetically), and still had distinct gameplay. The most popular archetype in rpgs and my favorite is gonna get shafted for association with a dispicable faction like the crows? Not cool. And not inclusive. And that's why i don't think Bioware would do it. P.S. I am very sensitive when it comes to gameplay aesthetics. All the story in the world does not matter to me, if i can't play my favorite archetype. I'd wager they'll limit the melee mage specialization to daggers, just as they'll preclude warriors most likely from dual-wielding. Does it make sense? No, but that's nothing their target audience cares about. It's simple as that. But hey, you can have blue or green hair and be an overweight rogue doing flashy looking jump attacks. This is something i don't mind, you can customize your character in various ways, ok, that's a good thing. But it is absurd that the modern DA audience doesn't give a @@ about gameplay inclusion. Bioware speaks about inclusivity, about being who you want to be. But that is also about who you are, and what your abilities are. Are you a tall jacked elf or qunari? Purple hair? ok, but that's just one part. The second part is how do you look like in armor or gear. In other words, inclusion and representation of archetype iconics. You have representation, do you also have iconic representation of the archetypes in rpgs? Like, can you look like a paladin or whatever? a mage etc, and how much variety is there. Do you also have full plate armor, or a half assed attempt at it? This is your second part of the visuals. This is supposed to be a fantasy RPG after all. After character appearance, and gear appearance, the third, and most important for gameplay part of inclusion is, mechanics and aesthetics of your abilities. You're in a fantasy world, and can be anyone right? Ok, who are you? Are you a melee mage? And that's the last part, right there. What is a melee mage for you? Are you really inclusive? Are you going to let people play like they want aesthetically? Can they wield swords in heavy armor AND rapiers or shortswords in lighter? Arcane Warrior could do it, Knight enchanter less so, but still had customization and variety. Sword is a universal thing anyway. If you allow only daggers for spellblade, the whole part where you talk about inclusivity and advertise it as well through GameInformer, goes down the trash. Because you failed on the most important part of inclusion. The third one. That's why i find the idea that spellblades will only use daggers, as absurd to even think of. Also i find it amusing how can people think the association with Crows(which we have no idea how and why exists), would mean you only use daggers. The only thing they know, is that one evoker mage of a journalist equipped magical daggers they had found. That's all it took for them to assume everything. Anyway. TLDR, inclusivity is super, as long as it's real inclusivity. Looks and whatever comes with it, gear and whatever comes with it, and abilities. We know mages can wield swords if they want. Don't force on me, limiting ideas like daggers only. Just don't. It's a bad idea. P.S. About the crows thing. Assassins are not rogues, i mean lore wise. Crows are something like the mob. They will have warriors, rogues, and mages all for different things. Remember the Dark Brotherhood from Oblivion? There was a brute orc(?) guy in it, that said something like " I assassinate, i just go in their face and want see the fear in their eyes as i cut them down. I want them to see me coming, and know i'm coming for them" Although crows are not rogues as a whole, people indeed went on to associate spellblades with rogues. I think it's just another example of how people think with stereotypes.
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Kendaric
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kendaric
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Post by Kendaric on Jul 4, 2024 19:05:42 GMT
This is something i don't mind, you can customize your character in various ways, ok, that's a good thing. Don't get me wrong, good customization options are important to me. I'm the kind of guy who spends an hour in character creation only to enter the game and notice something wrong about my character's appearance. But I absolutely hate when there's a glaring dissonance between character creation and animations, which I was alluding to by the fat rogue example. Sorry, but even in Fantasy overweight characters shouldn't be jumping around like they were athletes at the olympics. Anyway. TLDR, inclusivity is super, as long as it's real inclusivity. Looks and whatever comes with it, gear and whatever comes with it, and abilities. We know mages can wield swords if they want. Don't force on me, limiting ideas like daggers only. Just don't. It's a bad idea. That's one of the reasons why I still think DAO is the best part of the franchise. It didn't impose a lot of limitations on the player unlike later titles for the sake of "class identity". Was it perfect? No. But still leagues better than the later titles.
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Crom
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morkartheuniter
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Post by Crom on Jul 5, 2024 14:45:22 GMT
True, i don't like limitations imposed, which have a strong mechanic AND aesthetic impact on how i can play and customize my character.
Class identity is ok, but no class identity was ruined in other rpg systems that allow more freedom and customization.
DA has always been-barring Origins- extremely exclusive and limiting on that front, no dual wield for warriors - but Taash is super special and can do it somehow, you just can't- and makes me skeptical about the options, freedom and customization we will have in the game.
I will wait for more info. Actual info, not the gameinformer tiny bits of it. Until then i will remain skeptical.
P.S. Give full plate armor and swords for mages(melee mages even), or RIOT
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TheInvoker
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Post by TheInvoker on Jul 5, 2024 15:56:13 GMT
When do you think we will have more info about gameplay?
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Crom
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Post by Crom on Jul 5, 2024 16:13:23 GMT
Wish i knew. I would guess we get some info every week? But dunno what kind of info.
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Kendaric
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Post by Kendaric on Jul 5, 2024 18:06:27 GMT
When do you think we will have more info about gameplay? No one really knows. At this point it may have been better to release a demo version, so people could actually try if the combat works for them.
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 5, 2024 18:15:37 GMT
When do you think we will have more info about gameplay? We got som eyesterda yand ewgot some on Monday s o I don' texpec tany moer until nex tweek now. I know I pla nt og odar kas soon as we ge tt ose the CC an dmaybe some more gameplay but I don' twantt osee too much as I don' twan tt ob espoiled s oonc e ewhave a releas edate and w esee th eCC I'll likel yg odark until the game launches
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TheInvoker
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Post by TheInvoker on Jul 6, 2024 8:40:47 GMT
But i mean news like it was in Juve with gameplay video or at least seome new screenshots of things we didn't see yet like the inventory
and please learn to write
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