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Post by themikefest on Jul 11, 2024 1:26:41 GMT
Arcane Warrior, Knight Enchanter I both liked. This spellblade thing, I don't know. Is it a combination of both?
Is it possible the mage could acquire a talent to use the fade to power some spells? Don't know.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jul 11, 2024 3:22:04 GMT
I think Spellblade is going to be Arcane Warrior + Knight Enchanter (arguably two of the most popular specializations) but on steroids, more varied play styles- swords, daggers, bows… whatever strikes your fancy. A more physical-oriented mage, as opposed to slinging spells and staff projectiles from a distance.
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jul 11, 2024 3:27:14 GMT
Speaking of which, we really need a Spells / Skills / Talents and Specializations thread to dissect and speculate the crap out of as more stuff comes out.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 11, 2024 7:12:03 GMT
I think Spellblade is going to be Arcane Warrior + Knight Enchanter (arguably two of the most popular specializations) but on steroids, more varied play styles- swords, daggers, bows… whatever strikes your fancy. A more physical-oriented mage, as opposed to slinging spells and staff projectiles from a distance. I'm hoping that is the case. However, there was a fundamental difference between DAO Arcane Warrior, where you could use your magic stat to allow you to use swords and armour which normally required a high strength score, and Knight Enchanter, where you created your own magical blade which you used in combat. Back in DAO it was the need for certain strength or dexterity scores to use weapons and armour that restricted the mage's ability to do so, because you were investing in magic as opposed to the other two, rather than the actual class. The same was true of rogues when it came to what they could dual wield. This did allow you a degree of flexibility in how your developed your PC. DA2 changed all that. Now rogues could only dual wield daggers and mages could only fight with their staff. Both were also limited as to the armour they could use with no way around that for the mage by using their magic score. This continued into DAI. Whilst mages weren't running around in long robes and the armour often looked similar to that of the other classes, everything was still restricted by class, not the points you had invested in a particular stat. What I did find promising with DAV is that they have restored the ability to switch from melee to ranged weapons and back again during the fight. I had been complaining about the removal of this after DAO. In DA2 as a rogue you could swap from bow to daggers mid fight but you had to pause and physically change them in the one weapon slot, whilst in DAI it did not allow you to do this at all. Whatever weapon you had at the start of the fight you were stuck with until it finished. I wonder if this means that warriors will once again be allowed to use ranged weapons. Again, it was frustrating that they removed this ability from warriors in DA2 and DAI, particularly the latter as if the enemy was out of range of the melee weapon, they just stood around looking stupid until they either closed on them again or the enemy chose to come back into a close combat position. Back in DAO I usually had everyone equipped with a ranged weapon and hit enemies with arrows and bolts until they chose to close with us, often avoiding being hit altogether until the enemy was already weakened. The only exception to this plan of action would be if we were faced with magic users, so it paid to close on them quickly and put them down. However, if I had used an area effect spell like Blizzard, then it allowed us to hit them and possibly disrupt their casting ability, if the ice hadn't already done this, whilst keeping our team out of the danger area. As for my arcane warrior in DAO, I kept the sword equipped most of the time even though I would have to sheath it to cast spells, which would risk getting hit whilst I did so. I was okay with that because it seemed realistic. I preferred that to being restricted to just the staff in DA2 for close combat, which is why I so welcomed the introduction of the Knight Enchanter. What was also annoying in DA2 was the fact that the companions couldn't wear any of the armour we found and neither could the Hawke from the wrong class, so we kept finding really great armour sets that were totally useless except for acquiring cash, of which I had an overabundance by the end of the game. I wasn't quite clear about how armour works in DAV. Did they say that companions could wear what we find but it would automatically adjust to their particular style? Or is it going to be like DA2 where we simply upgrade their armour set?
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Post by illuminated11 on Jul 11, 2024 8:39:45 GMT
I think Spellblade is going to be Arcane Warrior + Knight Enchanter (arguably two of the most popular specializations) but on steroids, more varied play styles- swords, daggers, bows… whatever strikes your fancy. A more physical-oriented mage, as opposed to slinging spells and staff projectiles from a distance. I'm hoping that is the case. However, there was a fundamental difference between DAO Arcane Warrior, where you could use your magic stat to allow you to use swords and armour which normally required a high strength score, and Knight Enchanter, where you created your own magical blade which you used in combat. Back in DAO it was the need for certain strength or dexterity scores to use weapons and armour that restricted the mage's ability to do so, because you were investing in magic as opposed to the other two, rather than the actual class. The same was true of rogues when it came to what they could dual wield. This did allow you a degree of flexibility in how your developed your PC. DA2 changed all that. Now rogues could only dual wield daggers and mages could only fight with their staff. Both were also limited as to the armour they could use with no way around that for the mage by using their magic score. This continued into DAI. Whilst mages weren't running around in long robes and the armour often looked similar to that of the other classes, everything was still restricted by class, not the points you had invested in a particular stat. What I did find promising with DAV is that they have restored the ability to switch from melee to ranged weapons and back again during the fight. I had been complaining about the removal of this after DAO. In DA2 as a rogue you could swap from bow to daggers mid fight but you had to pause and physically change them in the one weapon slot, whilst in DAI it did not allow you to do this at all. Whatever weapon you had at the start of the fight you were stuck with until it finished. I wonder if this means that warriors will once again be allowed to use ranged weapons. Again, it was frustrating that they removed this ability from warriors in DA2 and DAI, particularly the latter as if the enemy was out of range of the melee weapon, they just stood around looking stupid until they either closed on them again or the enemy chose to come back into a close combat position. Back in DAO I usually had everyone equipped with a ranged weapon and hit enemies with arrows and bolts until they chose to close with us, often avoiding being hit altogether until the enemy was already weakened. The only exception to this plan of action would be if we were faced with magic users, so it paid to close on them quickly and put them down. However, if I had used an area effect spell like Blizzard, then it allowed us to hit them and possibly disrupt their casting ability, if the ice hadn't already done this, whilst keeping our team out of the danger area. As for my arcane warrior in DAO, I kept the sword equipped most of the time even though I would have to sheath it to cast spells, which would risk getting hit whilst I did so. I was okay with that because it seemed realistic. I preferred that to being restricted to just the staff in DA2 for close combat, which is why I so welcomed the introduction of the Knight Enchanter. What was also annoying in DA2 was the fact that the companions couldn't wear any of the armour we found and neither could the Hawke from the wrong class, so we kept finding really great armour sets that were totally useless except for acquiring cash, of which I had an overabundance by the end of the game. I wasn't quite clear about how armour works in DAV. Did they say that companions could wear what we find but it would automatically adjust to their particular style? Or is it going to be like DA2 where we simply upgrade their armour set? Bows will be bread and butter of Veil Archer kit, surely. Although maybe you can dip into other specializations and access them via what weapons you equip. (So if you’re a battle mage/veil archer hybrid, whether you use a sword or bow dictates what class abilities you can access.) I listened to the Split the Veil podcast recently, where Catie was talking about her experience playing the alpha. She had to dance around the subject quite a bit, but from what I gleaned, every class has access to a ranged option: for warrior, they throw their shield. I’m not sure if that means their kit alternates between sword and board and two hander, or what. But if true, it sounds like they want every class to have a flexible toolkit that works in a variety of situations and can easily combine with any other class specialization, as well as have animations unique to that class.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 11, 2024 12:28:42 GMT
every class has access to a ranged option: for warrior, they throw their shield. That made me laugh when I read it. Okay, as a last resort you can throw your shield once, then what? Is it a boomerang shield that returns to you after felling your enemy? What about the two-handed specialist? Do they carry around a shield on their back just in case they want to lob it at an enemy? A crossbow or short bow would be more useful and if the rogue can switch between bow and melee weapons, then why not program the same for the warrior?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 11, 2024 12:31:54 GMT
(So if you’re a battle mage/veil archer hybrid, whether you use a sword or bow dictates what class abilities you can access.) I think only Bellara can be a mage/archer hybrid. I may be wrong but I don't think Spell Blade allows you to be a mage/archer but something more like an Arcane Warrior. I really hope they start giving us a bit more information about the classes and specialisms available to Rook as opposed to their companions, who all apparently have unique builds.
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Post by illuminated11 on Jul 11, 2024 12:48:22 GMT
every class has access to a ranged option: for warrior, they throw their shield. That made me laugh when I read it. Okay, as a last resort you can throw your shield once, then what? Is it a boomerang shield that returns to you after felling your enemy? What about the two-handed specialist? Do they carry around a shield on their back just in case they want to lob it at an enemy? A crossbow or short bow would be more useful and if the rogue can switch between bow and melee weapons, then why not program the same for the warrior? Honestly I have no idea, that’s just what I heard. A boomerang would actually be kind of awesome though, if impractical in reality. Oh right, I forgot veil archer was specific to Bellara. Hmm. Yeah, I guess it’s hard to know until the skill tree is released and we see more of the combat in action. Catie did describe mage combat as ‘interesting’ which is incredibly vague, but suggests there’s some sort of quirk there we don’t yet know about.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 11, 2024 12:56:22 GMT
I find the combat controversy... interesting because it's not like any Bioware game has particularly good combat or like the Dragon Age series has a coherent mechanical identity. The demo suggests the worst we're likely to get is mediocre ARPG combat, which was good enough for The Witcher series, so why not here?
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Post by illuminated11 on Jul 11, 2024 13:11:07 GMT
I find the combat controversy... interesting because it's not like any Bioware game has particularly good combat or like the Dragon Age series has a coherent mechanical identity. The demo suggests the worst we're likely to get is mediocre ARPG combat, which was good enough for The Witcher series, so why not here? I’m not really fussed about it either if I’m honest, but I also have never much liked rtwp combat. If anything, I’m just glad they’re committing fully to an arpg instead of the weird middle ground we got with Inquisition.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Jul 11, 2024 13:29:34 GMT
I find the combat controversy... interesting because it's not like any Bioware game has particularly good combat or like the Dragon Age series has a coherent mechanical identity. The demo suggests the worst we're likely to get is mediocre ARPG combat, which was good enough for The Witcher series, so why not here? I think most people like ME combat outside of maybe ME1. Hell, I even played ME3 MP because it was so fun and I never play MP games. Only real consistent DA identity was controlling a party of 4 and that's what I'm sad about losing. Yeah, I get action sells but I wish it was still a party of 4 and I could switch between them.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jul 11, 2024 15:34:55 GMT
I dunno, but from everything I’ve read and heard and if I’m understanding it correctly, Spellblade *should be* the magical equivalent of a physical combatant. An evolved version of Arcane Warrior and Knight Enchanter, not a step back. So, whatever weapon you equip, you’re fighting with the magical version of it. Magical bows and daggers if you prefer a more Rogue-ish style mage, one-handed or dual-wielding or even sword and shield for warrior vibes. A lot of people got hung up on the magical daggers thing, while I read it as one example of what you can do.
Why? There seems to be a huge focus on customization, hybrid classes and varied, dynamic play styles for Veilguard. If you notice even by the end of DAI, we got schematics for a magical sword (“Brand”, if memory serves?), indicating an idea, concept or direction they’re trying to go with this, and which should (and IMO, seems to) be more consolidated by now with DAV.
I don’t expect there to be restrictions - such as, you need X Strength to equip this sword - rather, the Sword in this case, being a mere template or blueprint of sorts, informing how you’re choosing to play your Spellblade character, with your Magic attribute at the center. Although other attributes might still play their part with stuff like Crit Chance and Bonus Dmg, etc.
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Post by Crom on Jul 13, 2024 14:57:44 GMT
I dunno, but from everything I’ve read and heard and if I’m understanding it correctly, Spellblade *should be* the magical equivalent of a physical combatant. An evolved version of Arcane Warrior and Knight Enchanter, not a step back. So, whatever weapon you equip, you’re fighting with the magical version of it. Magical bows and daggers if you prefer a more Rogue-ish style mage, one-handed or dual-wielding or even sword and shield for warrior vibes. A lot of people got hung up on the magical daggers thing, while I read it as one example of what you can do. Why? There seems to be a huge focus on customization, hybrid classes and varied, dynamic play styles for Veilguard. If you notice even by the end of DAI, we got schematics for a magical sword (“Brand”, if memory serves?), indicating an idea, concept or direction they’re trying to go with this, and which should (and IMO, seems to) be more consolidated by now with DAV. I don’t expect there to be restrictions - such as, you need X Strength to equip this sword - rather, the Sword in this case, being a mere template or blueprint of sorts, informing how you’re choosing to play your Spellblade character, with your Magic attribute at the center. Although other attributes might still play their part with stuff like Crit Chance and Bonus Dmg, etc. If only more people thought like you ^^ Anyway, i hope the developers focus on gameplay customization for spellblade as well. Don't forget, Arcane Warrior's main ability was named "Combat Magic" *cough cough yeah.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 19, 2024 9:21:45 GMT
Again the mage have a magic shield. So no dodging. And we have a no die option. So no need of running and spamming left click. Yes of course. But if this magic shield is absolute protection against all attacks, and mitigates all offensive spells and abilities used by NPCs then it's frankly overpowered and will result in the game offering no challenge at all. I play all previous Dragon Age games on hard, and I certainly won't be playing Veilguard on the 'no death mode.' Games without challenge are as boring as games where every encounter involves damage sponge enemies. Balance is also important. So no, I'm not looking for a 'zero effort' experience. I merely prefer tactical combat over 'twitch' combat. They have said it will get more tactical on harder difficulties. So i think maybe the shield has less effect their. Sorry for the late respons.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 19, 2024 10:01:00 GMT
That's news to me, how exactly? I had great fun playing Knight Enchanter in DAI but it was nothing like Arcane Warrior from DAO. I'm waiting to discover if Spell Blade is going to be more like the former or the latter. I don't know where people got the idea about only using daggers though. If this is connected to what has been seen of companions, apparently they have certain core class abilities but beyond that they have unique builds, so nothing to go on there. I don't think there has been a screen shot that shows a Spell Blade Rook as part of the team but may be I am wrong about that. Didn't see anything specific in the Game Informer articles either but perhaps I missed it. Any new information would be welcome. Yeah, I don’t get the “only daggers for Spellblade” thing either. That was just one example of what can be done I look at the following. Mage: Spellblade, Death Caller and Evoker. Warrior: Slayer, Reaper and Champion. Rogue: Duelist, Saboteur, and Veil Ranger.
We have 2 specialization that sound like a combi of mage and an other class. Spellblade and Reaper. As Reaper is a Warrior specilization, i think the spellblade is the mage/rogue combination. That would also work best with crow as a faction in my eyes. That doesn't mean only daggers. But for me it would mean no 2 handed weapons and no swort and shield. The dev. had said only warrior have 2 handed weapons and swort and shield, while rogue has bow and 2 weapon fighting.
Slayer could be the warrior/rogue combination. So a warrior can use 2 weapon fighting.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 19, 2024 10:51:11 GMT
Yeah, I don’t get the “only daggers for Spellblade” thing either. That was just one example of what can be done I look at the following. Mage: Spellblade, Death Caller and Evoker. Warrior: Slayer, Reaper and Champion. Rogue: Duelist, Saboteur, and Veil Ranger.
We have 2 specialization that sound like a combi of mage and an other class. Spellblade and Reaper. As Reaper is a Warrior specilization, i think the spellblade is the mage/rogue combination. That would also work best with crow as a faction in my eyes. That doesn't mean only daggers. But for me it would mean no 2 handed weapons and no swort and shield. The dev. had said only warrior have 2 handed weapons and swort and shield, while rogue has bow and 2 weapon fighting.
Slayer could be the warrior/rogue combination. So a warrior can use 2 weapon fighting.
You've got Veil Ranger as ewll I suspec ttha twill be a mix between mag eand Rogue,. As I was thinking use tha ton efor m yRogue as my Lords of Fortune character's going to be a rogue. My firs t2 Rooks wil l be Evoker mages.asmy first is goin gt obe a Gre yWarden and m ysecond a Veil Jumper
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 19, 2024 11:12:52 GMT
I look at the following. Mage: Spellblade, Death Caller and Evoker. Warrior: Slayer, Reaper and Champion. Rogue: Duelist, Saboteur, and Veil Ranger.
We have 2 specialization that sound like a combi of mage and an other class. Spellblade and Reaper. As Reaper is a Warrior specilization, i think the spellblade is the mage/rogue combination. That would also work best with crow as a faction in my eyes. That doesn't mean only daggers. But for me it would mean no 2 handed weapons and no swort and shield. The dev. had said only warrior have 2 handed weapons and swort and shield, while rogue has bow and 2 weapon fighting.
Slayer could be the warrior/rogue combination. So a warrior can use 2 weapon fighting.
You've got Veil Ranger as ewll I suspec ttha twill be a mix between mag eand Rogue,. As I was thinking use tha ton efor m yRogue as my Lords of Fortune character's going to be a rogue. My firs t2 Rooks wil l be Evoker mages.asmy first is goin gt obe a Gre yWarden and m ysecond a Veil Jumper For the veil ranger i am really not sure, because it said: it is purely range, sniping enemies from afar with a bow. Bellara is the Mage/rogue. I don't think veil ranger is the same anymore. And it would be weard with 3 mage combination specializations.
But the veil in it let me doubt my words. So it have a question mark on it at the moment.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 19, 2024 11:29:35 GMT
You've got Veil Ranger as ewll I suspec ttha twill be a mix between mag eand Rogue,. As I was thinking use tha ton efor m yRogue as my Lords of Fortune character's going to be a rogue. My firs t2 Rooks wil l be Evoker mages.asmy first is goin gt obe a Gre yWarden and m ysecond a Veil Jumper For the veil ranger i am really not sure, because it said: it is purely range, sniping enemies from afar with a bow. Bellara is the Mage/rogue. I don't think veil ranger is the same anymore. And it would be weard with 3 mage combination specializations.
But the veil in it let me doubt my words. So it have a question mark on it at the moment. Yeah it's the veil partthat' sgetting me as tha tscreams mage to me atm soit's making me think a mage/rogue mix but for rogue. Still I don' tthink we'll fully understand until they either show us Rooks using those specs or w etry them for ourselves once the game's out.
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Cyberstrike
N4
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 19, 2024 20:37:34 GMT
Yes "controversy". Sorry 'bout that. Since you're here - a totally hot take I've been meaning to get off my chest without joining in the shouting matches on social media:
I think it'd be the best for everyone if BW just stopped beating around the bush regarding the combat gameplay philosophy: It's ME (Andromeda)'s. This is a good thing - it was arguably the single best functioning thing about the latest ME game. It makes sense to build on good things you develop.
That's why you have two companions, one left, one right. That's why the focus on combos, primers & detonators.
That's why the power wheel is back and thank god for it - which is ME's variant of tactics mode. That's why you have three skills - yes only three, but they also fundamentally changed how these work. It's not just "three tricks until cooldown" - every skill had been reworked, most notably the biotics, to be much more dynamic - tap, double tap, hold down, mash, all the while interacting with the environment, too. They're not just another bonus weapon you shoot for the same size explosion in 30 second intervals (as they used to).
My point being, it's a system that develops a flow which allows for very intricate gameplay and -yes- tactics. Except it's not top down camera. That does not mean it is braindead button mashing. Personally, I welcome this step as it sort of "bringing the systems together", as Dragon Age has always been this raging identity crisis while ME was just gradually improved -ahem- altered.
PS I dare anyone to go back to DA2 and seriously experience the combat AFTER Varric's faux intro sequence, for what it actually was. I find it rather uncalled for to use it has the lower end of the "combat-IQ-o-meter" as it has been in the whole debate so far, because it isn't nearly as button mashy (beyond easy mode) and I personally found it had some of the best and most interestings skills/talents in the series.
We'll see how it works. It worked for MEA because it was mostly a shooter. It will be interesting to see how this will translate to melee combat.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Jul 24, 2024 14:40:23 GMT
While I am disappointed with mages having reduced spells for a second time in a row, I am glad to hear that healing is back. Some of what we have been hearing about active spell slots makes it sound like Rook will mostly be doing variations of default basic attacks between long cooldowns. Despite these seeming negative factors, I still plan to run a mage for my canon.
I do have one hope though. With some half-dozen "spells" flavored by our staff element, I hope Bioware brought back the more interesting Nature and Spirit types. Please, and thank you.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 24, 2024 16:47:16 GMT
For the veil ranger i am really not sure, because it said: it is purely range, sniping enemies from afar with a bow. Bellara is the Mage/rogue. I don't think veil ranger is the same anymore. I'm wondering if Veil Ranger is a variant on the Shadow specialism. That had a lot to do with concealment but also allowed you to create a decoy to distract your enemy whilst you escaped using stealth. Now the Necromancer specialism in DAI had something similar with Simulacrum, where if you were knocked unconscious a spirit fought in your place. So may be Veil Ranger allows a hybrid of the two. After all, the mage specialism Death Caller may focus more on the animating of skeletons and dead opponents side of necromancy.
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fistoffiori
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Post by fistoffiori on Jul 25, 2024 6:46:42 GMT
Do we know when specialisations kick in? They're not immediate, that much we know already.
DAO and DA2 were after a set amount of levels (6 or 7), Inquisition was essentially the start of what would be considered 'Act 2' when you reach Skyhold and can recruit the trainers.
IIRC they said "later in the story" for Veilguard so I'm assuming it'll be similar to Inquisition and be at the Act 2 story point.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 25, 2024 6:59:03 GMT
DAO and DA2 were after a set amount of levels (6 or 7), Inquisition was essentially the start of what would be considered 'Act 2' when you reach Skyhold and can recruit the trainers. It was roughly around level 10 I seem to recall because that is when your companions automatically have access to their specialism. It changed from the first two games because you can only have one specialism the entire game, whereas previously you added an additional specialism every 7 levels (7, 14, 21 etc). In Awakening I already had Arcane Warrior and Spirit Healer and then added Battle Mage which was unique to that expansion. What I am hoping is that it is just tied to your level, like DA2, and not to finding a trainer/book of instruction (DAO) or a set of ingredients (DAI). The latter was most frustrating as first run I had advanced several levels before I finally had everything I needed. However, the fact that each specialism is tied to a faction makes me wonder if you have to perform some deed for them before you are able to gain your specialism.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 25, 2024 7:37:11 GMT
DAO and DA2 were after a set amount of levels (6 or 7), Inquisition was essentially the start of what would be considered 'Act 2' when you reach Skyhold and can recruit the trainers. It was roughly around level 10 I seem to recall because that is when your companions automatically have access to their specialism. It changed from the first two games because you can only have one specialism the entire game, whereas previously you added an additional specialism every 7 levels (7, 14, 21 etc). In Awakening I already had Arcane Warrior and Spirit Healer and then added Battle Mage which was unique to that expansion. What I am hoping is that it is just tied to your level, like DA2, and not to finding a trainer/book of instruction (DAO) or a set of ingredients (DAI). The latter was most frustrating as first run I had advanced several levels before I finally had everything I needed. However, the fact that each specialism is tied to a faction makes me wonder if you have to perform some deed for them before you are able to gain your specialism. Whith the skill tree. They better comunicate clearly when you get your specialism. And yes i agree no trainer and quest to it. Because other wise this will be a mess to manage the skill point you get.
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Post by fylimar on Jul 25, 2024 9:00:33 GMT
Tbh, I never was a fan of DA combat, but I actively disliked combat in DAI. I like my full hotbar of abilities ( old rpgler and DnD player here), so having only a few abilities doesn't sit well with me. At least DAO gave me a bit more to work with
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