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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 25, 2024 17:06:07 GMT
It's just strange how Solas was so dramatic over my inky drinking the Well, and now it's just....nothing. Huh.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Sept 25, 2024 17:08:24 GMT
But hey, we got an extra dialogue line in Trespasser with minor ancient elf NPC. Seems like a fair exchange for eternity of servitude
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Post by azarhal on Sept 25, 2024 17:13:37 GMT
It's just strange how Solas was so dramatic over my inky drinking the Well, and now it's just....nothing. Huh. He freed you when he killed Flemythal...
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 25, 2024 17:13:43 GMT
It's just strange how Solas was so dramatic over my inky drinking the Well, and now it's just....nothing. Huh. Yeah I think this is a recurring BioWare problem with choices that feel important at the time, but then in retrospect aren't. Like the Dark Ritual in DAO, when I first played I sat there debating for half an hour what to do, but knowing the effects now it is basically just a get of jail free card so why not do it? I think Well of Sorrows (and probably other decisions here and there) will similarly feel less important on replays going forward.
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Post by IllustriousT on Sept 25, 2024 17:17:11 GMT
Sigh...
Still think that Weisshaupt would be best with history molded by our decisions, but...I also understand Bioware's decisions.
Maybe one day we can have both meaningful and non-meaningful conclusions/updates to decisions.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 25, 2024 17:19:22 GMT
It's just strange how Solas was so dramatic over my inky drinking the Well, and now it's just....nothing. Huh. He freed you when he killed Flemythal... But we still hear the voices in Trespasser, which is long after Flemythal is gone.
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Post by emissaryoflies on Sept 25, 2024 17:29:07 GMT
In the way that people on this forum board ardently defend(some in bad faith) every single thing about Veilguard to point of antagonization of other forum members for having differing opinions. Despite having just as much information as the rest of us. The way that some people who have criticisms appear to walk on eggshells with any criticism they reveal. Look no further than the bobblehead thread(the one talking about the weirdly proportioned bodies) for an example. People were having a discussion and then it derailed into mudslinging with 'Cassandra skull guy' because some people got butthurt.
In that way. People are capable of having civil conversations when the "skeptical" group doesn't come in hot with negative diction and excessive hyperbole. There was just a discussion last night with someone who didn't like Inquisition and hasn't been happy with what they've seen so far from Veilguard, and it was a productive conversation. Reznore has had no issues voicing criticism and gets along fine with most people on the board. Respect is a two way street. Also, Sofa Jockey straight up measured the models and the ratios were proportional--the issue revolves around camera angles and using a non-standard height for the models. An example of an actual bobblehead would be the halflings from BG3. And if the board user doesn't want their topic to derail, maybe they should avoid posting fucking Asmongold videos of all things. They could have easily shown the reddit thread instead, but when someone introduces us to those types of grifters, they're setting the tone of the conversation before it's even started. Morrigan will be carried through from Origins, although I admit I'm also concerned about how the character will be portrayed. But ultimately we don't know anything about how the character will be written, we can only rely on guesswork. If it's a decline in the sense that it lessens and simplifies the connections between games, then yeah, sure, I agree. Solas may well have never had sex with the Inquisitor, it's left ambiguous, but I understand your point. The Well not coming back feels like a mistake, especially if Morrigan is returning. You were the one talking about their work ethic, not me. If you didn't want me to talk about that, you shouldn't have mentioned it. When I use the term variance, I'm not referring to replayability, I'm talking about the actual quality of the writing itself, including the writing of branching paths. Just having more of something does not automatically make something well constructed. BG3 had more with its evil route, but the evil route was terribly written and barely made sense half the time. I genuinely think my experience with that game would've been better if I never touched that route, it was so horribly done.
As for the actual quality of the writing we've seen in Veilguard, some of it has felt sharp and some of it has clunked. But I think that's true for every game in the series, where the writing has moments of greatness and moments that fall flat. Like, I love Dragon Age, it's one of my all-time favorite series, but I'm under no illusions about the flaws that persist throughout the entire body of work. My only real concern so far is that they're playing it a little safe and overly sanitized in certain aspects. So basically, none of the difference I noted matter because of... vibes? How am I supposed to refute that? That's just an emotional response with no basis in actual character analysis. 1. So what I'm reading here is that it's okay to not be civil when someone presents an opinion that you disagree with, can you elaborate further on this point? That seems to be the greater meaning behind that statement. Respect is a two way street. I agree. It is. I can respect what you think of Bellara and your other opinions without playing Mean Girls with you. I wish others could do the same. Bobbleheads aside, the in-game character models do look better when engaging in the gameplay judging from Game Riot's playthrough. There's hope there. As to Asmongold, am I to believe that people are incapable of separating the message from the messenger? That seems like an emotional response with no basis in actual analysis. 2. We've already crossed the bridge of the 'work ethic' point. I should have been more clear. Point taken. Having more of something does not automatically make something well constructed. Agreed. And wouldn't you say that having more of something might increase the odds that something of quality will be produced? Especially from a studio renowned for their writing? 3. The differences you highlighted do matter. They just aren't enough for me at this point to significantly separate Bellara from Peebee and Sera. Only playing the game and checking under the hood will dictate that.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 25, 2024 17:31:14 GMT
Well there it is, actual confirmation. I agree with them re: most events in past games. Who Divine Victoria is specifically, who is in charge of Ferelden, is the Warden dead or alive and did they romance Morrigan etc. don't need to be relevant at all to the current conflict up north at all considering how culturally removed the north and south are from each other (and also now by a whole decade), as pleasant as it is having some minor dialogue acknowledge that your previous characters existed and affected people and the world. I was already assuming that DATV is going to be too chockful of new things and people to establish and resolve to be able to shoehorn in irrelevant things from southern Thedas 10+ years ago.
But there are a couple people with quantum fates whom I wish would've appeared or be mentioned, who should be in the geographic area, like (non-romanced) Dorian and Iron Bull (if he romanced Dorian). And I thought who drank from the well was a given and would come into play, though maybe that's part of a whole other plot re: Mythal's plans that is sperate from the current plot of this game. And with every new DA and ME game I always look forward to being pleasantly surprised with some minor consequence, sentence or cameo that only exists in a/my particular world state. Pretty disappointed I know exactly what to expect about which past choice 'matters' now.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 25, 2024 17:41:56 GMT
I agree with them re: most events in past games. Who Divine Victoria is specifically, who is in charge of Ferelden, is the Warden dead or alive and did they romance Morrigan etc. don't need to be relevant at all to the current conflict up north at all considering how culturally removed the north and south are from each other (and also now by a whole decade), as pleasant as it is having some minor dialogue acknowledge that your previous characters existed and affected people and the world. I You are clearly in the minority with this opinion you can bet and win good money that many Veilguard players will ask what happened to their DAO warden. By the way i honestly believe that won´t have been that many choices in the first place. But yeah that´s such a bad decision on Biowares part. I wish that there would have again a middlegroud sure they have most of Keep choices because they don´t matter anymore but they should kept more than those 3.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 25, 2024 17:44:06 GMT
I agree with them re: most events in past games. Who Divine Victoria is specifically, who is in charge of Ferelden, is the Warden dead or alive and did they romance Morrigan etc. don't need to be relevant at all to the current conflict up north at all considering how culturally removed the north and south are from each other (and also now by a whole decade), as pleasant as it is having some minor dialogue acknowledge that your previous characters existed and affected people and the world. I You are clearly in the minority with this opinion So?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 25, 2024 17:46:29 GMT
I know you don´t care and Bioware can´t do any wrong. My point still stands because i know this fandom and you can´t even count how many people will ask about the DAO warden.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2024 17:47:46 GMT
Well there it is, actual confirmation. I agree with them re: most events in past games. Who Divine Victoria is specifically, who is in charge of Ferelden, is the Warden dead or alive and did they romance Morrigan etc. don't need to be relevant at all to the current conflict up north at all considering how culturally removed the north and south are from each other (and also now by a whole decade), as pleasant as it is having some minor dialogue acknowledge that your previous characters existed and affected people and the world. I was already assuming that DATV is going to be too chockful of new things and people to establish and resolve to be able to shoehorn in irrelevant things from southern Thedas 10+ years ago. But there are a couple people with quantum fates whom I wish would've appeared or be mentioned, who should be in the geographic area, like (non-romanced) Dorian and Iron Bull (if he romanced Dorian). And I thought who drank from the well was a given and would come into play, though maybe that's part of a whole other plot re: Mythal's plans that is sperate from the current plot of this game. And with every new DA and ME game I always look forward to being pleasantly surprised with some minor consequence, sentence or cameo that only exists in a/my particular world state. Pretty disappointed I know exactly what to expect about which past choice 'matters' now. honestly some of these people can still make appearances. Cassandra and Dorian, they just don't have to reference anything quantum about their characters, since they for instance are both cannonically alive. Long shot though.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2024 17:49:20 GMT
I know you don´t care and Bioware can´t do any wrong. My point still stands because i know this fandom and you can´t even count how many people will ask about the DAO warden.
it's not about Bioware doing no wrong its about argumtum ad populum. Populist arguments aren't inherently right.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 25, 2024 17:51:19 GMT
He freed you when he killed Flemythal... But we still hear the voices in Trespasser, which is long after Flemythal is gone. hearing the voices =/= Mythal controlling you. The bottom of the line is that there is many reasons why it might not be relevant and we won't know until we play the game.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 25, 2024 17:52:00 GMT
honestly some of these people can still make appearances. Cassandra and Dorian, they just don't have to reference anything quantum about their characters, since they for instance are both cannonically Alice. Long shot though. Dorian no problem. His personal DAI quest also doesn´t matter anymore. His father is dead. But Cassandra how on earth can possible explain that Cassandra or Vivienne aren´t Divines if for some players they clearly are? No Cassandra won´t make a return and that´s ok. She also has been in DA2 so a break is not that bad.
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Post by TabithaTH on Sept 25, 2024 17:54:54 GMT
I mean, as long as they never mention his age, they can always make it so she’s gotten a son since DAI. Then if you have Kieran, that’s him, otherwise it’s a new kid. Oh please that would so cheap. Also the community would ask who is the father. So no Morrigan will never mention Kieran aka you can argue that he never existed in the first place. Hey, I never said it was a good idea. Just an example of how they might streamline choices. It’s either that or they completely ignore them. Honestly, I’m not sure which is the lesser Evil in this case.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2024 17:55:01 GMT
honestly some of these people can still make appearances. Cassandra and Dorian, they just don't have to reference anything quantum about their characters, since they for instance are both cannonically Alice. Long shot though. Dorian no problem. His personal DAI quest also doesn´t matter anymore. His father is dead. But Cassandra how on earth can possible explain that Cassandra or Vivienne aren´t Divines if for some players they clearly are? No Cassandra won´t make a return and that´s ok. She also has been in DA2 so a break is not that bad. I did say a long shot. However Divines do travel and make state visits from time to time. Even assuming they ARE the Divine.
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Post by bierkrug on Sept 25, 2024 17:55:38 GMT
From the IGN article; "But it’s also part of the advantage of moving the setting up to Northern Thedas, Epler says, with the prior games in the series taking place in Southern Thedas, a significantly different region both geographically and sociopolitically."
LOL what is this? Thedas is like Korea now where nothing passes between south and north?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 25, 2024 17:55:50 GMT
it's not about Bioware doing no wrong its about argumtum ad populum. Populist arguments aren't inherently right. For the love of god spare me your nonsense. You clearly haven´t follow the (plus in my case also the german) fandom over the last 10 years or more because otherwise you would know that very many players still care about their DAO warden and wanting him / her back. But hey believe what want to believe i guess. It doesn´t make it right.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 25, 2024 18:01:34 GMT
I mean I don't care about Divine Cass. It's been a decade. But when I read the southern chantry doesn't care about Anderfels, Nevarra, Antiva ? Qunari and Blighted Pagan Gods attacking those countries is actually a serious cause and an Exalted March could be called. The chantry is not just Orlais/Ferelden/Free Marches. I know why they don't want the Chantry involved, because it was a whole thing in DAI and they want to move on, and they have their faction thingies. But at least make an effort lore wise to explain it in a way that make sense.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2024 18:02:12 GMT
it's not about Bioware doing no wrong its about argumtum ad populum. Populist arguments aren't inherently right. For the love of god spare me your nonsense. You clearly haven´t follow the (plus in my case also the german) fandom over the last 10 years or more because otherwise you would know that very many players still care about their DAO warden and wanting him / her back. But hey believe what want to believe i guess. It doesn´t make it right. its not nonsense but millenia old philophical ideas. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. And based on how often I've argued this point I am very well aware of how a segment of fandom feels but how that segment feels can't reference itself if it hopes to make a strong argument because large groups of people can make illogical arguments. So can individuals. The issue here isn't what is popular or what fandom feels is right just how Bioware wants to tell their story, and I see little in the way of logical rebuttals only an appeal to one logical fallacy or another. Especially when the ideas talked about Bioware are fairly common trend lines in the industry. We see it with Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect,BG, and yet DA is supposed to be better at something the industry hasn't figured out? Especially considering things like this also happen IRL?
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Post by azarhal on Sept 25, 2024 18:06:40 GMT
From the IGN article; "But it’s also part of the advantage of moving the setting up to Northern Thedas, Epler says, with the prior games in the series taking place in Southern Thedas, a significantly different region both geographically and sociopolitically." LOL what is this? Thedas is like Korea now where nothing passes between south and north? If you bother reading the codexes about "current" stuff relevant to other countries then were the games are set, it's all mostly rumors. They don't have internet, news travel via merchants and travellers, spoken over drinks in taverns. Or take for example Brother Genitiv's codex about Nevarra. He had issues just getting to Nevarra to visit the country and he is an official Chantry scholar.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 25, 2024 18:13:35 GMT
I know you don´t care and Bioware can´t do any wrong. My point still stands because i know this fandom and you can´t even count how many people will ask about the DAO warden.
Why should what the "majority" of the fandom cares about affect what I care about? I can only speak for my personal tastes and priorities. If you're looking for me to go all Karen or Annie Wilkes over this (or anything that I'm a fan of), yeah that's never going to happen. And I absolutely agree with the last sentence because many in the DA fandom have an annoying hyperfixation with the HoF that I will likely never relate to.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 25, 2024 18:16:18 GMT
The only reason I never thought we’d get anything about the Well is the involvement of both Morrigan and the Inquisitor. Now that we know both are in the game, I’m honestly saddened that the Well choice is irrelevant. Also, I do not need super cameos and stuff, but a codex entry here and there referencing stuff does wonders for me personally. People who know can do the whole Decaprio meme thing and those that don’t will see it as yet another world building flavor text. Like reading information about Blackwall, if he’d become a warden, smaller stuff like that. Ngl, I think we might have had more of this stuff if the game had used the keep. Because it doesn’t they need to keep the import function as simplistic as possible. Otherwise they risk overwhelming new players with choices they have no way of understanding. Likewise they risk disappointing old fans when a choice turns out to be something small, like a codex. If they can just take it from the keep, then we do not have any preexisting expectations of what that choice will look like, so it becomes a pleasant surprise, rather than a disappointment. I agree. But if i see right you can move on without doing a choice, so newer plyer wouldn't be a problem. But i agree that they may feel the need to play DAI.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 25, 2024 18:17:48 GMT
1. So what I'm reading here is that it's okay to not be civil when someone presents an opinion that you disagree with, can you elaborate further on this point? That seems to be the greater meaning behind that statement. Respect is a two way street. I agree. It is. I can respect what you think of Bellara and your other opinions without playing Mean Girls with you. I wish others could do the same. Bobbleheads aside, the in-game character models do look better when engaging in the gameplay judging from Game Riot's playthrough. There's hope there. As to Asmongold, am I to believe that people are incapable of separating the message from the messenger? That seems like an emotional response with no basis in actual analysis. 2. We've already crossed the bridge of the 'work ethic' point. I should have been more clear. Point taken. Having more of something does not automatically make something well constructed. Agreed. And wouldn't you say that having more of something might increase the odds that something of quality will be produced? Especially from a studio renowned for their writing? 3. The differences you highlighted do matter. They just aren't enough for me at this point to significantly separate Bellara from Peebee and Sera. Only playing the game and checking under the hood will dictate that. 1. It depends. What is the opinion and why do I disagree? If the topic is about character and narrative construction, that's fine, no problem. I love talking about the art of writing, how you structure a story and the tools used to define characters, create tone, build toward complex ideas that let us better understand the human condition... whether it lands or not for the majority of people, and why. Have as strong an opinion as you want on that front, whether positive or negative. If the topic is about character creation and people are throwing out dog whistles like "female mutilation", or they're diagnosing and psycho-analyzing the writers from the comfort of their keyboard--I'm going to be abrasive and dismissive at best, or I'm just going to block/ignore them. Or there's people like the Frost guy, who seemingly just ctrl+v the same sentence over and over, saying very little of meaningful substance. That type of thing gets ignored. This is just me, of course. I, obviously, cannot police how people respond to anything, the only ones who can are mods, and they also have to pick and choose their battles because they can't go around deleting any conversation purely for being confrontational.
How a message is conveyed is just as important as what the message is. That's a key element of rhetoric. Not only that, but if the authority of the person you're using to make your point is compromised, you suddenly have to defend your argument on two fronts instead of one. As an analogy, it would be like using a doctor to argue some detail about covid, only for it to turn out they lost their license/failed their clinicals.
2. Perhaps. Although it could also lead to bloat. To be clear, I loved the little one off lines in Inquisition referencing my warden, I loved the conversation with Hawke (although I know a lot of people were unhappy with their portrayal), I loved getting to meet Kieran. Morrigan's character arc, for me, comes full circle in Inquisition because of Kieran specifically. I'm sad we're not get anything like that in the new game.
3. I just don't see it, even going off the minimal amount of information we have. Peebee, sure. I can see some echoes of Peebee here, although Bellara already seems a lot more mature. But Sera is kinda her own thing, in general.
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