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Post by sloth on Sept 26, 2024 19:44:27 GMT
I agree! That's why I think their explanation for the lack of choices from previous games being "we wanted to put choices that will impact DA:TV" is really frustrating, considering they did the opposite in the others games, and it felt like we were really "playing a trilogy". What I'm sad about it's not that only 3 choices are impacting the new game, but that they are officialy ignoring, at least for this game, that we played DA:O, DA:A and DA2, especially if we are seeing characters from those games, but they are "not the same characters" that we saw while playing those games. Not sure if I was able to make my point why would they be different characters? Take Morrigan for instance. A lot of effort in Inquisition was made to make her less quantum. Same goes for Kieran. And the bits that are quantum don't really have relevance to Veilguard and probably wouldn't come up in conversation regardless. what I meant by "different" was "not carrying the same package". Like, a playthrough in which Morrigan had Kieran is different than one that Morrigan didn't. But if they are "the same Morrigan" in DA:TV (as in, Kieran is never mentioned, so we can't possibly tell the difference) to avoid the quantum problem, for one of those two playthroughs, the Morrigan we would see in DA:TV is not the same
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Post by azarhal on Sept 26, 2024 19:47:35 GMT
When the Keep was created, Bioware was clear that having a choice in there wasn't equal to it being referenced in a future game. They repeated it multiple time around DAI release. Just like DA2 doesn't reference everyting you did in your imported DAO save. And DAI doesn't reference everything from DAO and DA2 that was entered in your loaded keep timeline. And some of the stuff in the Keep has common resolution in-game which isn't represented by the choice selection. For example, Calpernia/Samson. It doesn't matter if you sided with the Mages or Templars, by the end of DAI: Calpernia always live (and always a Venatori). Samson always dies. I agree! That's why I think their explanation for the lack of choices from previous games being "we wanted to put choices that will impact DA:TV" is really frustrating, considering they did the opposite in the others games, and it felt like we were really "playing a trilogy". What I'm sad about it's not that only 3 choices are impacting the new game, but that they are officialy ignoring, at least for this game, that we played DA:O, DA:A and DA2, especially if we are seeing characters from those games, but they are "not the same characters" that we saw while playing those games. Not sure if I was able to make my point Someone not talking about something they was not requesting isn't them being different characters. I mean is Cassandra a different character in DAI because we cannot ask her about Regalyan?
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Post by sloth on Sept 26, 2024 19:48:19 GMT
But I would just add that, in my opinion, those unimportant choices (like Ketojan, for example) are important for the personal player world state. I disagree with you on Ketojan. He dies regardless in Act 1 so what´s the point that this choice is been remembered? I find it way more important if Hawke is Basalit-an or not which doesn´t exist in the Keep than Ketojan because this could be mentioned by some Qunari NPC.
oh right, I meant that it is "important" to feel "more personal". Like, as many decisions as possible, to adjust our Tapestry in a way that feels like really "ours". But I think that Ketojan wasn't the best example for my point
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 26, 2024 19:48:59 GMT
what I meant by "different" was "not carrying the same package". Like, a playthrough in which Morrigan had Kieran is different than one that Morrigan didn't. But if they are "the same Morrigan" in DA:TV (as in, Kieran is never mentioned, so we can't possibly tell the difference) to avoid the quantum problem, for one of those two playthroughs, the Morrigan we would see in DA:TV is not the same Also countless Morrigan romance players will critice that beside Kieran she never mention her husband aka male DAO Warden.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 26, 2024 19:53:37 GMT
Someone not talking about something they was not requesting isn't them being different characters. I mean is Cassandra a different character in DAI because we cannot ask her about Regalyan? Ingame reason: That´s Cassandra decision and maybe for DAI time it was a fresh wound to her because of the recent conclave explosion but Morrigan seem to enjoy to talk about Kieran and the Warden in DAI. Alistair or Loghain i guess not so much.
And Game reason: Jeez we are still talking about one of the most important DAO decision. A decision which always gotten talked about since DAO release. So of course for many players this decision is still relevant.
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Post by sloth on Sept 26, 2024 19:59:40 GMT
I agree! That's why I think their explanation for the lack of choices from previous games being "we wanted to put choices that will impact DA:TV" is really frustrating, considering they did the opposite in the others games, and it felt like we were really "playing a trilogy". What I'm sad about it's not that only 3 choices are impacting the new game, but that they are officialy ignoring, at least for this game, that we played DA:O, DA:A and DA2, especially if we are seeing characters from those games, but they are "not the same characters" that we saw while playing those games. Not sure if I was able to make my point Someone not talking about something they was not requesting isn't them being different characters. I mean is Cassandra a different character in DAI because we cannot ask her about Regalyan? yeah, the character not talking doesn't mean they're different but if we can't choose in CC like we did in the Keep, they could be like, if Cassandra shows up in DA:TV in her armor fighting demons, but she doesn't mention wether she is Divine or not. For that plot, that clarification wouldn't be important. Then, the only way that we could differentiate that would be through the CC choices. Like, Rook doesn't need to know, but the players do basically my point is that I'm not exactly worried about how the reduced choices in CC will impact DA:TV, but how they are impacting the whole franchise, like, a fear that they are "erasing" the trilogy from existence, and bringing back characters that won't mention anything that was done before amplifies that fear
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Post by azarhal on Sept 26, 2024 20:27:51 GMT
Someone not talking about something they was not requesting isn't them being different characters. I mean is Cassandra a different character in DAI because we cannot ask her about Regalyan? yeah, the character not talking doesn't mean they're different but if we can't choose in CC like we did in the Keep, they could be like, if Cassandra shows up in DA:TV in her armor fighting demons, but she doesn't mention wether she is Divine or not. For that plot, that clarification wouldn't be important. Then, the only way that we could differentiate that would be through the CC choices. Like, Rook doesn't need to know, but the players do basically my point is that I'm not exactly worried about how the reduced choices in CC will impact DA:TV, but how they are impacting the whole franchise, like, a fear that they are "erasing" the trilogy from existence, and bringing back characters that won't mention anything that was done before amplifies that fear Cassandra showing up in DAVe and not bringing up whatever she was Divine or not doesn't stop a future game asking the player about it if it become relevant to that game. But I don't think Divine Victoria was meant to last. Just like old man King Harrowmont can't live forever and Wardens life-span reduction should stop being ignored.
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 26, 2024 20:34:47 GMT
I find it a hard sell that Keep sacrifice was necessary for that. The Keep was always gonna be sacrificed at some point. It's an online service, and eventually it will be shut down (if you ask me when, I'd guess a year-ish after DA:V releases; I'd be surprised if EA kept it going for multiple years after Veilguard comes out). The original mistake was making it so that Inquisition needed the Keep to function (and assuming future games would do the same). Veilguard is at the very least correcting that mistake by bringing it all back "offline", even though they could have added a few more decisions to the list. That's the thing, I was hoping they'd just create Keep 2.0, offline and integrated with Veilguard.
Like why was that too much to ask?
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Post by bierkrug on Sept 26, 2024 20:37:33 GMT
Like why was that too much to ask? You don't want to alienate the modern audience, do you???
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 26, 2024 20:41:41 GMT
You don't want to alienate the modern audience, do you??? Why?!? They still have the option to us the Default aka not importing if this modern audience can´t handle this.- Wait a minute they already did this in DA2 and DAI.
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Post by lk13 on Sept 26, 2024 20:50:15 GMT
That's the thing, I was hoping they'd just create Keep 2.0, offline and integrated with Veilguard.
Like why was that too much to ask?
I doubt EA would consider spending money and time to "fix" a 10 years old game so it can be fully offline. The only way I can see them doing that is if they plan to do a trilogy remaster or something like that (which I think has very low probabilities of happening)
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Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2024 20:53:53 GMT
The Keep was always gonna be sacrificed at some point. It's an online service, and eventually it will be shut down (if you ask me when, I'd guess a year-ish after DA:V releases; I'd be surprised if EA kept it going for multiple years after Veilguard comes out). The original mistake was making it so that Inquisition needed the Keep to function (and assuming future games would do the same). Veilguard is at the very least correcting that mistake by bringing it all back "offline", even though they could have added a few more decisions to the list. That's the thing, I was hoping they'd just create Keep 2.0, offline and integrated with Veilguard.
Like why was that too much to ask?
it is basically what they did. Like why was that too much to ask? You don't want to alienate the modern audience, do you??? what's this got to do with modern audiences?
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Post by bierkrug on Sept 26, 2024 21:06:55 GMT
what's this got to do with modern audiences? The new players that never played a DA game before and that Bioware doesn't want to scare off with a vast catalogue of old decisions.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 26, 2024 21:08:53 GMT
what's this got to do with modern audiences? The new players that never played a DA game before and that Bioware doesn't want to scare off with a vast catalogue of old decisions. It's not just new players. I've been seeing plenty of people saying they don't remember what they did in DAI 10 years ago too. I said it before in this thread, the people in here replayed the games often and curated their world state, most gamers do not.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 26, 2024 21:17:29 GMT
Another comment about "default world state".
I finished a PT a few days ago of DA2 where I imported a DAO save without doing any of the DLCs and the default world state still included stuff about Awakening (and not just Anders related).
Like I expect something a bit wierd in Veilguard when someone who never played Inquisition end-up interacting with the Inquisitor.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 26, 2024 21:17:56 GMT
The new players that never played a DA game before and that Bioware doesn't want to scare off with a vast catalogue of old decisions. Again then this new players or people who forgotten about their choices should have not use the Import aka something which is clearly optional. Simple. And last but not least why pander those people and not appealing to the crowd aka the DAI buyers who made Inquisition into Bioware best selling game?
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Post by sloth on Sept 27, 2024 1:16:37 GMT
Another comment about "default world state". I finished a PT a few days ago of DA2 where I imported a DAO save without doing any of the DLCs and the default world state still included stuff about Awakening (and not just Anders related). Like I expect something a bit wierd in Veilguard when someone who never played Inquisition end-up interacting with the Inquisitor.agreed my complains was focused on them erasing Warden and Hawke from existence, but god... Forgot about the possibility of a "generic Inquisitor"
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Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2024 1:28:30 GMT
Like why was that too much to ask? You don't want to alienate the modern audience, do you??? Someone has been watching too much Critical Drinker.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 27, 2024 1:33:45 GMT
You don't want to alienate the modern audience, do you??? Someone has been watching too much Critical Drinker. I've been waiting for someone to start talking about THE MESSAGE.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2024 1:35:40 GMT
Someone has been watching too much Critical Drinker. I've been waiting for someone to start talking about THE MESSAGE. Well we did have: Woke, concord, modern audience, and I think someone mentioned DEI here lol.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 27, 2024 2:23:26 GMT
Sorry for the clickbaiting Threadtitle but in my opinion the Inquisition choices aka the Keep replacement is very disappointing. Hol' up. How did the Inquisitor get her arm back? That doesn't even seem to be a robot arm!
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Post by roselavellan on Sept 27, 2024 2:37:26 GMT
Cassandra showing up in DAVe and not bringing up whatever she was Divine or not doesn't stop a future game asking the player about it if it become relevant to that game. But I don't think Divine Victoria was meant to last. Just like old man King Harrowmont can't live forever and Wardens life-span reduction should stop being ignored. Yeah, I would support the stance that if it doesn't add anything meaningful to the story, it needn't be shoehorned in. Your point much (much) earlier about Connor is something I personally see as adding something poignant to the Redcliffe story because we see the impact of these horrors on a personal level, on ordinary people. In general though, leaders come and go, heroes die, and the world moves on. I would welcome meaningful appearances of former favourites, but otherwise, the drive-and-wave cameos like King Alistair or unplayable Hawke ended up being less than satisfactory.
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Post by kingmandu on Sept 27, 2024 5:51:10 GMT
It wouldn't be a Bioware release without fans flipping the fuck out and being all melodramatic over stuff that doesn't fit or is totally irrelevant (the Divine choice? Really? Like ANYONE in Tevinter gives a hoot lol. Besides, we didn't "pick" the Divine, we influenced the election).
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Post by bierkrug on Sept 27, 2024 6:36:40 GMT
You don't want to alienate the modern audience, do you??? Someone has been watching too much Critical Drinker. I have no idea who that is.
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Post by tmjfin on Sept 27, 2024 6:42:39 GMT
Based on what Epler said, now I'm waiting something big from those three choices.
I don't get why they bring back Varric and Harding from Inquisition, when they cannot comment most of the stuff that happened. Same with Morrigan.
And if/when they kill the Keep, I really hope the give us a offline save game editor or a remaster with save import. Killing the Keep will basically make Inquisition unplayable and that would be a shame. I still play it yearly and it those little things that change that keeps story somewhat fresh.
I still trust that the Veilguard will be a great game, but this is a decision that I cannot understand.
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