emissaryoflies
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Post by emissaryoflies on Sept 23, 2024 22:11:36 GMT
An amazing example of what can be done. His cameo wasn’t remarkable, but it let us know that it mattered in some way what we did games ago. It showed us that they seriously cared about their universe and added immersion to our playthrough. Same thing with seeing Alistair, Anora, or both, or none. Gods the writing was strong then! Are you implying that the devs don't care with this game as well? As well? Not sure what you mean by that. As to Inquisition, at this point I believe there’s a very high chance that more care went into the writing of that game than has gone into Veilguard, by virtue of acknowledging past choices alone. It is possible that BioWare will prove me a liar, alas I’ve seen absolutely nothing that indicates that will be the case.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 23, 2024 22:12:58 GMT
Do we know if the build the content creators played was a full one or more a demo-like, curated one?
"at this point I believe there’s a very high chance that more care went into the writing of that game than has gone into Veilguard"
The imported choices implementation is a production management/budget thing, not a writer thing. No need to imply Trick and Karin Weekes, Mary Kirby, Lukas Kristjanson, Sheryl Chee, etc. cared less about The Veilguard than previous games. If anything, given the make-or-break-it narrative (correct or not) about the success of the game, there's no reason to think they did anything less but pour all their time and heart out into the writing.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 23, 2024 22:14:39 GMT
Honestly, we don't even know what the imports will be like. It feels like we're just panicking over the drops of info we're given. Personally, I'm just waiting until the game releases to see what choices really factor in. Watch the GameRiot video and some international non english journalists are also saying that the import is very disappointing.
I quote or should i better say "steal" this reddit post because looking at the clock i am lazy and tired to rewrite this on my own. From Bonolenov192: "Let's talk about what choices they have to adress since Varric and Morrigan are in the game, and which ones are just important enough to have been adressed? And it's funny because it seems none of them will be: Varric - Just a SINGLE line if Hawke is alive or not. No need to go into more detail than their gender for example. Morrigan - A line about her son. A line about the Warden if romanced and about the Well of Sorrows. Or none of those if she wasn't involved or didn't have Kieran. lol Weisshaupt Wardens - Mention of the choice in Here Lies the Abyss. If the Orlesian Wardens were exiled they have a bigger force in there, if not they're weaker. Maybe a little codex entry in a library about the HOF? Wow, so hard. Divine Victoria - Again, CODEX. Somewhere in Nevarra or Antiva. Well of Sorrows - This is the most baffling one for me if it's not in. It was supposed to be a big decision, and they'll throw if it out of a window? lol" https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/1fnlpt8/dav_spoilers_its_literally_in_gameriot_preview/
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Post by river82 on Sept 23, 2024 22:15:00 GMT
Do we know if the build the content creators played was a full one or more a demo-like, curated one? Considering content creators give really cheap, but effective on the ground marketing providing lots of people early viewing of what the game will be like, giving them a product not representative would be a ... mistake
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 23, 2024 22:21:01 GMT
As to the number of choices, Dragon Age has been disrespecting player choice for forever (Leliana). Oh Jesus Christ sorry Leliana all over again? She was retconed but come on who many people have killed her and even beheaded her? We are only talking about a small % of players who know about this more random event and did this. And second Bioware retconed Leliana beheading but not her death. In DAI she is dead but not with outcome you might think. She is a lyrium ghost or something like that. So yeah i have no problem with this "retcon" but i would have one if Bioware ever retcon Alistair or Anders but they stay dead if killed. Ok "Justice may be a different story".
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 23, 2024 22:21:41 GMT
Do we know if the build the content creators played was a full one or more a demo-like, curated one? Considering content creators give really cheap, but effective on the ground marketing providing lots of people early viewing of what the game will be like, giving them a product not representative would be a ... mistake So we don't know? edit: This isn't a gotcha. I honestly want to know if it's been stated. If it is a full/release-level build, I imagine BW would have said so as a marketing point, because I agree with you here.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 23, 2024 22:22:45 GMT
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 23, 2024 22:26:27 GMT
I don't know, it just sounds like more nitpicking at this point. A lot of the choices that Bioware imported in the ME and DA games ended up being disappointing or buggy to the point where you missed out on dialogue. Personally, I prefer fewer but more impactful choices be imported. The problem is that what people feel are really significant choices, and ones they want to see consequences from, are probably going to differ a fair amount from person to person right? But like I said, at least for me, seeing how different choices lead to different consequences was a major factor driving replayability- doing different playthroughs to make different choices, to see how that plays out. But part of this is like some of the CC stuff- just running into practical limitations of technology, and I get that. Still, Dragon Age and BW games have always been about making choices and seeing the consequences of those choices, so importing so few choices from previous games is inevitably going to be disappointing to some people, even the True Believers like myself. Still hype, of course, just a little bummed about this particular tidbit.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 23, 2024 22:29:54 GMT
We all know that Bioware is lazy, why fight against the narrative? And is there no a middleground? If you don´t like stuff like this you have be a pure hater and not a real fan because Bioware can´t do wrong and fan will support and defend Bioware in everything what they are doing. Is it so simple aka black & whithe? No not for me atleast because i still will play this game (perhabs not at launch because this is such a disappointment for me) and having fun in other parts of the game.
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Post by river82 on Sept 23, 2024 22:33:41 GMT
Considering content creators give really cheap, but effective on the ground marketing providing lots of people early viewing of what the game will be like, giving them a product not representative would be a ... mistake So we don't know? edit: This isn't a gotcha. I honestly want to know if it's been stated. If it is a full/release-level build, I imagine BW would have said so as a marketing point, because I agree with you here. It hasn't been confirmed but this type of thing is done regularly and I can't think of a time that they were handed a misrepresentative product. Apart from that I, I guess, that EA handed reviewers a Battlefront game where the gacha was tuned much higher than the regular consumer gets, that's actually pretty common, but that's something that makes the game look better not incomplete or worse
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Sept 23, 2024 22:38:40 GMT
So we don't know? edit: This isn't a gotcha. I honestly want to know if it's been stated. If it is a full/release-level build, I imagine BW would have said so as a marketing point, because I agree with you here. Come on just 1 or 2 months before the actual release they won´t made that different build especially if the game is basically done since months besides some minor changes and bugfixes of course. This features complete so yeah that it. Also journalists aren´t supposed to show the Inquisitor like Varric but some haven´t follow Bioware rules so again that´s it.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 23, 2024 22:46:09 GMT
Considering content creators give really cheap, but effective on the ground marketing providing lots of people early viewing of what the game will be like, giving them a product not representative would be a ... mistake So we don't know? edit: This isn't a gotcha. I honestly want to know if it's been stated. If it is a full/release-level build, I imagine BW would have said so as a marketing point, because I agree with you here. They didn't get full access to the game. They got access to prologue Lighthouse intro first zone, then a companion recruitment mission (only Lucanis), a bit of Treviso. Then got a lvl 30 with all companions available to do one of the main quest. But as far as I know all features are implented at this point, it's not gold (as in ready for release) but the first act should be ironed out by now.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 23, 2024 22:54:42 GMT
To the critics who say the choices also haven´t really mattered in previous games they not complete wrong but also not complete right on this. I personal won´t want to miss small details like the DAI Connor cameo for example which flavors an otherwise vanilia experience. That's actually the type of cameos I find totally pointless and a waste of time for me the player. I thought that just a few days ago when I meet Connor in my current DAI PT world state, I put him in because it had been a while that I haven't done that, then after meeting him I remembered why. I don't need a NPC who's only purpose is to tell me why he's there or expose about the previous game they were in I put them in my world state, I know why they are there and what happened...and then he does nothing (outside die off-screen in a non-existing future). He's just a "wink" at the player for putting a check in a checkbox somewhere. The "Sacred Ashes" in DA2 is a good cameo. The King of Orzammar stuff in DA2 is a good cameo. Gianna Parasini in ME2 is a good cameo. The King/Queen of Ferelden showing up in DAI is a good cameo. Drunk Alistair in DA2 is a good cameo (actually average). King Alistair in DA2 is a bad cameo. Leliana in DA2 is a bad cameo. Connor in DAI is a bad cameo.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 23, 2024 23:00:30 GMT
I remember people saying that Allistair looked too fat in his DA:2 cameo lol. Honestly, a cameo is fine but I prefer choices that really affect the game like Hawkes potential death in inquisition. That’s something I remember more than meeting Connor in a blink and you miss cameo. Especially when Varric reacted to his death, It was very emotional seeing Varric nearly cry over Hawke: a guy who he was best friends with for years.
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Post by emissaryoflies on Sept 23, 2024 23:31:23 GMT
Do we know if the build the content creators played was a full one or more a demo-like, curated one? "at this point I believe there’s a very high chance that more care went into the writing of that game than has gone into Veilguard" The imported choices implementation is a production management/budget thing, not a writer thing. No need to imply Trick and Karin Weekes, Mary Kirby, Lukas Kristjanson, Sheryl Chee, etc. cared less about The Veilguard than previous games. If anything, given the make-or-break-it narrative (correct or not) about the success of the game, there's no reason to think they did anything less but pour all their time and heart out into the writing. 'Atta boy! Anyway, I see Rooks' nearly identical background choices. I see a faction letter that's written with the skill and finesse of a third grader. I hear and listen to Bellara's terrible Marvel-esque introduction that betrays the gravity of the situation but in a way that doesn't work. And they've written this zany character before, damn near perfectly in Sara, not sure that's the case here. I listen to Neve's boring and monotone dialogue in Minrathous. I look at the dialogue with Lucanis and Spite and almost forget I wasn't watching a Disney movie. I watch the initial trailer and, I know I know, they were supposedly upset by it, but it's a representation of what's in the game regardless and it sounded like more marvel garbage. Quips and all. I look at the Inquisitors' choices that won't even deign to mention the Well of Sorrows, Here lies the Abyss, Fereldan or Orlais. And yes, I come away thinking that more care went into the game that came out 10 years ago. The game with Connor, the game with Loghain, the game with Alistair, Anora, and the game with Hawke. There's a prayer that it'll all be in the final product. Nothing I've seen thus far leads me to believe it.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 23, 2024 23:52:53 GMT
Ah yes, Alistair, the swooping is bad guy; or Loghain, the person who spends most of Ostagar breaking the forth wall and mean mugging the camera. Not to mention poorly constructed characters like Oghren, or Swiftrunner, or even joke characters like Sanadal that people randomly decide are amazing despite being little more than a meme. (Anora is also not a particularly well written or fleshed out character, but I'm just going to pretend that was a slip of the keyboard and not actually serious.) All the epitome of great writing, right there.
It's really not hard to make something sound dismissive if you've already decided you don't like it.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 23, 2024 23:54:09 GMT
Looks like the "skeptic" still can't find their way to the right thread.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 24, 2024 0:00:37 GMT
I don't mind people being skeptical; it's the elevation of Origin's writing as some perfectly crafted masterpiece that irritates me more. There's a lot I like about Origins, and it executed a lot of ideas very well--there's also a lot of drivel, and melodrama, and silly jokes, and shit dialogue, and derivative, boilerplate fantasy elements.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 24, 2024 0:06:00 GMT
Healthy skepticism and informed criticism made in good faith is fine and good.
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Post by yarus on Sept 24, 2024 3:12:47 GMT
It's also insane because it was the existing playerbase that kept the game alive for an entire decade when Bioware went through self inflicted L after self inflicted L (Anthem, Dragon Age). To deliberately seek new audiences at the expense of pissing off the core playerbase --- I just don't understand the rationale man. You know I'm irratated that Bioware will likely ignore Andromeda, and they set Anders to the wayside. But honestly in the grand scheme of things, if it doesn't serve the story for the current game, there's no need to add it in. I was disappointed that most of the keep choices didn't transfer to Inquisition, but it still remained a great game. All it matters, is that the important choices, particularly the ones that'll affect Veilguard will factor into the game. There were a lot of things about Inquisition that bothered me, Anders was definitely one of them. Especially due to all of the times he and the DA2 climax are referenced in one way or another (the opening animation of the Temple, both Vivienne and Solas's (low approval) dialogue, Varric (obviously). The final act of Asunder (Fiona's **** the divine quote), not to mention war table stuff like the "The Extremists".) ----like, everything was in place for *some* type of resolution to Anders' arc and he just....never appeared. It was very bizarre. Another thing that really bugged me was Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep near complete omission from the story. Like, not a single nod to Nathaniel Howe, Sigrun, or the rest of the Awakenings Crew. Which means I can only assume he was an off screen sacrifice of Clarel's demon army, died on his way to his home planet, or is vibing with the Warden Commander, and the Architect off screen.
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Post by yarus on Sept 24, 2024 3:18:21 GMT
To the critics who say the choices also haven´t really mattered in previous games they not complete wrong but also not complete right on this. I personal won´t want to miss small details like the DAI Connor cameo for example which flavors an otherwise vanilia experience. That's actually the type of cameos I find totally pointless and a waste of time for me the player. I thought that just a few days ago when I meet Connor in my current DAI PT world state, I put him in because it had been a while that I haven't done that, then after meeting him I remembered why. I don't need a NPC who's only purpose is to tell me why he's there or expose about the previous game they were in I put them in my world state, I know why they are there and what happened...and then he does nothing (outside die off-screen in a non-existing future). He's just a "wink" at the player for putting a check in a checkbox somewhere. The "Sacred Ashes" in DA2 is a good cameo. The King of Orzammar stuff in DA2 is a good cameo. Gianna Parasini in ME2 is a good cameo. The King/Queen of Ferelden showing up in DAI is a good cameo. Drunk Alistair in DA2 is a good cameo (actually average). King Alistair in DA2 is a bad cameo. Leliana in DA2 is a bad cameo. Connor in DAI is a bad cameo. Jesus christ. More power to you but I couldn't disagree more. DA2 was elevated by how much it referenced Origins. Connor's cameo in DAI was great and we needed *more* of that, not less.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 24, 2024 5:17:09 GMT
I actually liked Connor’s cameo better than King Alistair and Anora in Inquisition, personally. They just kind of… showed up, to tie together the mage mission, and we didn’t get to interact with them again outside of War Table missions. (Although I did like the writing for those War Table missions.) Connor felt more personal, and Grey Warden Alistair was best of all for obvious reasons.
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 24, 2024 5:42:58 GMT
Ten years later I barely remember my Inquisitor's first name. I'd be quite content if any references to previous games would be kept short and small in number.
Just like Hawke in DAI I will consider the Inquisitor as a BioWare NPC vaguely inspired by a character I played quite a while ago.
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Post by emissaryoflies on Sept 24, 2024 6:43:02 GMT
Ah yes, Alistair, the swooping is bad guy; or Loghain, the person who spends most of Ostagar breaking the forth wall and mean mugging the camera. Not to mention poorly constructed characters like Oghren, or Swiftrunner, or even joke characters like Sanadal that people randomly decide are amazing despite being little more than a meme. (Anora is also not a particularly well written or fleshed out character, but I'm just going to pretend that was a slip of the keyboard and not actually serious.) All the epitome of great writing, right there. It's really not hard to make something sound dismissive if you've already decided you don't like it. I was referring to Inquisition’s treatment of those characters, but go off. It’s the fact that Inquisition cared enough to include a choice that not many people made. You can argue day and night about the quality that game but you can feel the effort that went into it. A good game. A good Dragon Age game. I’ve waited ten years for this and with the totality of everything shown thus far, I’d be a fool not to be skeptical.
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Post by helios969 on Sept 24, 2024 6:50:20 GMT
What's really important to the world state? Who the Inquisitor is banging, ugh.
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