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Post by ClarkKent on Jun 27, 2024 17:12:38 GMT
Of course it's far too early, and I am operating on mostly assumptions here, however, with DA5 I would like something somewhat smaller scale - even just relatively.
Have the game set in one country instead of multiple. Bring back the sense of journey and distance that was in DAO.
Hell, depending on how fleshed out Minrathous in DAV is, I would be even up for reusing the city, and having the next game be more of an iterative sequel that expands on what's been built. If that means I don't have to wait a decade, that is.
I would also want a focus moved away from demons, and the fade. We will have had it for two games in a row, and it would be time for something different.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 27, 2024 23:16:58 GMT
Of course it's far too early, and I am operating on mostly assumptions here, however, with DA5 I would like something somewhat smaller scale - even just relatively. Have the game set in one country instead of multiple. Bring back the sense of journey and distance that was in DAO. Ever since DA2 I've thought that Seheron sounded like a great location for another more contained game. Geographically isolated, fought over by Tevinter and the Qunari with the locals in the middle and the Fog Warriors in ... well, the fog I guess. I wouldn't mind going there for DA5. Of course, that depends on what kind of state the Qunari-Tevinter conflict is in at the end of Veilguard. So far it doesn't sound like it's going to be a big focus in the game, so at the moment I'm not expecting it to be resolved at the end. Which leaves it as an obvious direction for DA5 to go in.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 27, 2024 23:52:39 GMT
ah yes, the next da game after guard.
Here's what will happen. To make the game more streamlined, the main character and companion, note the word companion and not companions, will have much less dialogue in the game. It will save resources for the story and combat. The player will only have access to one talent. There will be no ability wheel. Human only. Doing this will reduce production time so the game is released much faster than previous games.
I have no idea what will happen after guard. I guess it depends on how well the game does. I wouldn't be surprised if DAO is remade and/or da2 as well.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 10, 2024 13:44:11 GMT
So, after the credits roll on Veilguard (assuming you have the 'best' ending). There's a post-credit cutscene giving some (tiny) hints about where the story goes next. [Post-credit Cutscene] It's clearly going to be a while...
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Post by sentinel87 on Nov 10, 2024 14:00:28 GMT
Not a fan myself at all. I rarely like secret organizations or people controlling events in stories and especially games. I get the feeling though that these are leaning more magical than a copy paste Illuminati.
I feel like it removes agency of characters and the player. It hurts especially if it's the player since I'm the one playing the game. I don't like the game telling me a character had more impact on the game than I did.
Loghain is the one that bothers me the most. His reasons make sense for his character to take the actions he did. It creates a character that I can disagree with, but understand. I like that.
To reduce that to someone whispering in his ear essentially. I just don't like it. Just how many layers of magical beings exist in DA? It's getting a little top heavy.
Does this imply to anyone else that the Magisters entered the fade because of the Executors? Because that's what seeming implied here. That works against what DAV revealed in the game itself.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2024 15:32:47 GMT
Re-posting here what I posted in the Act 3 thread with more stuff. Do we need to use spoiler tags in here? Who's in the scene: The post credit scene isn't a bunch of illuminati. It's Executors/Those Across (or Beyond it seems in DAVe) the Sea. They kidnapped Inquisition members in DAI war table missions. Same symbol. References I could think off (I need to replay the game and check some older stuff, some thing might be something else): In DAVe: - First codex I found was in Minrathous, under the city, old entry from pre-Chantry Tevinter. Old Gods Priests arguing over what to build. One of them wanted to build defenses against Those Beyond the Sea. - 2nd codex, an auto added one after a main quest in act 2. Andruil built defenses against them (using people as batteries, Solas freed them saying she was using them to power herself up). - Then there is the Qunari. Taash's personal quest, the tablet. It talks about the Qunari actually running away from the Devouring Storm and the Qunari being created to fight them off. And only Dragon Fire can show the unseen. - And Anaris in Bellara's questline also talks about the Storm when dying. Bellara and Taash have some banter about it (I destroyed the archive so I don't know if we get more info the other way). There might be banters with other companions about that, but I wanted to finish the game, not walk around for hours trying to trigger stuff. -Also someone turned the Owl statues in Arlathan into death traps. I don't think I got to the end of that, but I suspect it's related since the first Owl message was about seeing the unseen. - Conspiracy board in Minrathous: Note: "the Sea" might not be a reference to actual water. Since Emmirch calls the Fade the sea (of dreams) and I believe the term was used in previous games too. Some other stuff: - I have theorized since DA2 there was something powerful Flemeth was hidding from. - in DAO, Flemeth says that the shadow in men heart are more dangerous than any blight. That was pointing to Loghain, Loghain who was getting his "advices" from Howe. - In DA2, there is some hints or direct mention that Bertrand got the tip to find the Thaig from some shadowy figure (I always throught it was Flemeth or Solas, but looks like it's not). Sandal also as a primpt where he talks about a shadowy figure laughing and him being scared. - In DAVe, "shadow in a men heart" are said by the Mayor of D'Meta Crossing (same voice actor as Loghain too, I don't think that's a coincidence). Especially with the cutscene that comes after. - In the Descent, there is some codex about magical wards/barriers being weakened by a sigil written in the Fade. It's not clear the wards were for what exactly. But something nefarious at work down there. - In DAVe, turns out the Mourn Watchers actually watch the Fade and protect the mortal realms from whatever is in there (and they didn't mean just demons). - In DAVe. Hossberg Wetlands Warden storyline, Antoine hear something else in the Bligth commanding it, something that isn't the Elgy/Ghili/Archdemons. It created a Blight erruption...that looks shaped like the top of the Titan heart in Harding's little face-to-face. Looks like the Executors have manipulated the board to get all the Evanuris disposed off over the last 1300 years, which they probably considered the only real threat around. They might also have some command on the Blight (or the Titans control it more than the Elgar'nan/Ghilan'nain think). There is also a lots of mention of group forgetting things. Dalish's writings was altered to make them forget stuff. Same for the Qunaris and Tevinter. The dialogue when that gets brought up is always "politics". And since our Lich Lords are pure hearted soul...they need a counterparts somewhere. I thought that the game would spell the end of the Blight and the Evanuris, but I don't think so after finishing it. Well the Evanuris trying to take over the world and Solas plotline is done, but I don't think they are entire gone. Not just Mythal. In Solas-Elgy words battle in Rook's head, all the Evanuris are mentioned as gone except for Falon'din and Andruil (unless I missed some lines). And there is a codex where we learn Ghilan'nain isn't mourning Andruil despite Elgy telling her she should...Ghilan just refers to her as being loss to her (and then try to hide how annoyed she is by the Venatori killing a Halla). I didn't find all the codices and I think lots of stuff is hidden in the mementos...and there are 182 of them.
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Post by LazarusV2 on Nov 10, 2024 16:09:36 GMT
Really nice summary azarhal I just finished Veilguard today and when this "secret ending" started to play, and the "The Veilguard stays vigilant." text appeared, with that ominous ambient music, as if something much more greater and maybe malevolent is awaking, it really suprised me and send at least a little shivers down my spine.
Even more so because the Veiguard felt to me in some parts as the "Infinity War/Endgame" to Dragon Age saga, if I leave out all the "missing" cameos/returning characters and lack of imported choices. Just like this is maybe the last Dragon Age, that will "solve everything and tie all the big mysteries." So having this hint, probably pointing to the Executors/Those Across the Sea, is really great. Btw. Isn't Executors/Those Across the Sea present in the last chapter or so in the Tevinter Nights, where Solas will kill one of them and say that they are very dangerous? That would tie it, with information we have right now, nicely to the whole "hidden subplot" of the series, although I hope that if there is DA5 in hopefully near future, Bioware will use them smartly and not as some "cliche illuminati" of the Thedas.
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Post by Reznore on Nov 10, 2024 16:13:22 GMT
Not a fan. Solas already being responsible for pretty much everything, the veil (ok fair enough) The Blight, winning the war against titans etc... wasn't necessary. It cheapens others characters. Like what the hell Elgar'nan was doing?
I never cared for the Executors, and now they've been influencing events in Thedas the whole time? GTFO
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Post by witchcocktor on Nov 10, 2024 16:14:49 GMT
'' The Veilguard stays vigilant '' part sent shivers down my spine too. Can you imagine having to deal with these companions and Rook another damn game? But seriously, I was certainly not expecting them to set up a new plot thread this fast, one that is so deeply connected to the past games, or so it seems. For all the talk about wanting to start fresh and from a clean slate (and that's why the game ended up being what it is, perhaps), they are not doing a very good job of it with this tease.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2024 16:16:34 GMT
Btw. Isn't Executors/Those Across the Sea present in the last chapter or so in the Tevinter Nights, where Solas will kill one of them and say that they are very dangerous? That would tie it, with information we have right now, nicely to the whole "hidden subplot" of the series, although I hope that if there is DA5 in hopefully near future, Bioware will use them smartly and not as some "cliche illuminati" of the Thedas.
Yes there is one, Soals turn them to stone before they get to say anything and we just have a vague description of voice and smell. I didn't bother mentioning it and I don't think it's representative. They could be anything: - eldritch horrors from the Fade, - just humans and closer to the origin of the specie (which is the only species that didn't get their "origin" in DAVe), but the timeframe suggest immortals - the scaled humanoids mentioned in previous games - ????? As a random, species origins: - Elves: air - Dwarve: earth - Qunari: fire So Humans would be: water
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Post by eldemit on Nov 10, 2024 16:34:42 GMT
"The REAL villains were these barely mentioned guys all along"" sequel tease rarely work. Might be one of the worst post credits scenes ever conceived.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2024 16:37:10 GMT
Not a fan. Solas already being responsible for pretty much everything, the veil (ok fair enough) The Blight, winning the war against titans etc... wasn't necessary. It cheapens others characters. Like what the hell Elgar'nan was doing?Elgar'nan was bossing people around. As an example, Solas accuse him of having used Andruil to burn the world. You know the story where Elgy burned the world in anger and Mythal stopped him, well looks like it was Andruil who did all the actual burning. And Solas created the dagger to kill the Titans at Mythal's order. Solas was just an instrument in the Titans defeat, not the guy who lead the charge against them.
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Post by Reznore on Nov 10, 2024 16:47:12 GMT
Not a fan. Solas already being responsible for pretty much everything, the veil (ok fair enough) The Blight, winning the war against titans etc... wasn't necessary. It cheapens others characters. Like what the hell Elgar'nan was doing?Elgar'nan was bossing people around. As an example, Solas accuse him of having used Andruil to burn the world. You know the story where Elgy burned the world in anger and Mythal stopped him, well looks like it was Andruil who did all the actual burning. And Solas created the dagger to kill the Titans at Mythal's order. Solas was just an instrument in the Titans defeat, not the guy who lead the charge against them. Elgar'nan the Sun killer who didn't defeat anyone? But managed to be the biggest thread ever? That same guy. Makes sense. Also makes sense to make Mythal responsible for everything, even when there's zero version of her agreeing to tearing down the veil. And Solas put one of her fragment in the CrossRoad (fragment he then ignored) and another he killed (Flemythal). But of course his main motivation are failing her (lol) and she's responsible for his failings (lol) Also no reckoning for Mythal because she's just a side character to Solas soap opera in DATV. Edit: I'm salty. I know it's obvious.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 10, 2024 17:05:13 GMT
Not onboard with the idea of the Executors actually being behind all the crises. If they’ve just been watching and occasionally taking action to push things towards instability (like waking up Solas, I don’t think we got an explanation as to why he woke up recently? Or maybe they convinced the Antaam lieutenants to rebel) I could maybe accept that. Telling me they manipulated Loghain would be an insult to his character.
If the Executors and those across the sea are just a civilization looking to invade Thedas, that could be interesting, but I really really hope this isn’t yet another god monster plot.
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Post by IllustriousT on Nov 10, 2024 17:05:25 GMT
I am in agreement in that I don't like the idea that they [the Executors] were nudging history all along. It does remove the nuance that defines these characters.
In the ending scene, it is said that with the destruction of Ghilan'nain, the "Storm was quelled" meaning the Blight. Does this "Devouring Storm" also refer to a Blight? Darkspawn are weak to fire - Qunari = Fire breathing soldiers. If my memory recalls correctly, the story regarding Laysh describes the sailors as Dwarven. Makes me wonder if there are unsundered Titans across the sea that are at war with their resident "Evanuris" Types or just ARE the threat. Individually, the Executors must not be too much of a threat if so easily silenced by Solas. So, they must be dangerous as a whole - which means magic, technology, and/or ideology. Maybe they are Golems, but more advanced? The Executors cover their forms, but must have a solid form to be able to turn to stone, despite their disembodied voices.
Just some thoughts I am throwing out there. I am happy with how they wrapped up all of the mysteries over the last 15 years in Veilguard, and would be joyous to have more mysteries to follow and speculate about.
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Post by LazarusV2 on Nov 10, 2024 17:05:47 GMT
'' The Veilguard stays vigilant '' part sent shivers down my spine too. Can you imagine having to deal with these companions and Rook another damn game? But seriously, I was certainly not expecting them to set up a new plot thread this fast, one that is so deeply connected to the past games, or so it seems. For all the talk about wanting to start fresh and from a clean slate (and that's why the game ended up being what it is, perhaps), they are not doing a very good job of it with this tease.
Fair point, to some degree I can't argue about that
To me it's interesting that this post credit scene isn't for everyone, like the scene in Inquisition, but only for those who do "a lot of things" in the game to get all 3 parts of the disc and codex entries, that will unlock it. That's weird to me, especially if this is meant to be "official teaser" for DA5 threat, which also could be false assumption.
But even if I liked it to some degree as a possible setup for what is next, I could not lie that I have also at least some little form of skepticism about this, because if it will not be handled properly, it could really end like some classical "Illuminati cliche." which would be really funny at this point. Especially if Bioware stated, that there will not be some form of story expansion/dlc for the veilguard, so we will need to wait a long time before we see how this "plot setup" will end up.
Although it's interesting that all three events they will show us, are directly connected to Blight/Elves, and basically nothing else. Maybe there is still some more info to it? Maybe it will be the Inception "we need to go deeper" sort of plot thing Like... you think after Veilguard, you know how Blight, Fade and all other things work? Think again! For the third time in this series
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Nov 10, 2024 17:13:58 GMT
I don’t know. I liked it lol. It excited me. I personally don’t find much of a difference between this and Mythal’s intervention. It was also strange how Flemythal’s art transformed into an Executor, instead of her disappearing black/being influenced. Seems like a connection to me?
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Post by LazarusV2 on Nov 10, 2024 17:23:13 GMT
Btw. Isn't Executors/Those Across the Sea present in the last chapter or so in the Tevinter Nights, where Solas will kill one of them and say that they are very dangerous? That would tie it, with information we have right now, nicely to the whole "hidden subplot" of the series, although I hope that if there is DA5 in hopefully near future, Bioware will use them smartly and not as some "cliche illuminati" of the Thedas.
Yes there is one, Soals turn them to stone before they get to say anything and we just have a vague description of voice and smell. I didn't bother mentioning it and I don't think it's representative. They could be anything: - eldritch horrors from the Fade, - just humans and closer to the origin of the specie (which is the only species that didn't get their "origin" in DAVe), but the timeframe suggest immortals - the scaled humanoids mentioned in previous games - ????? As a random, species origins: - Elves: air - Dwarve: earth - Qunari: fire So Humans would be: water Yes, the "lizard people" which we could see somehow vaguely mentioned in Inquisition. And even see the possible murals of them in the Emerald Graves and Frostback Basin, if I am not mistaken? That was interesting, if it wasn't just easter egg without deeper meaning.
Also, I really well remeber the codex entries in The Descent DLC about the Forgotten war or something like that, when the dwarves? mentioned war and description of some strange beings that lived underground, maybe even under Deep Roads that was hard to kill and worship some strange things? Was that ever somehow clarified or it's still mystery to this day? Because in the codex entries you get after acquiring the discs, in that story there is mentioned a journey into the Deep roads by the elf couple which propably meet some of these strange beings that can't be recognized as some knowned race.
Could that be tied together somehow? Also I think that there was mention of the great seas underground in that codex entries with discs, as well as in the Descent. So what if Executors/Those Across the Sea are not from the "across sea" we normaly have on earth level, but are from underground seas deep under Deep roads? I am not sure if it could make sense in english, but in my mother language it could be interpreted like that.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 10, 2024 17:33:58 GMT
I don’t know. I liked it lol. It excited me. I personally don’t find much of a difference between this and Mythal’s intervention. It was also strange how Flemythal’s art transformed into an Executor, instead of her disappearing black/being influenced. Seems like a connection to me? I don’t mind them telling us Bartrand was influenced somehow (did these guys deliver the idol to Meredith I guess? How did they know how that would turn out or further their plans?). I don’t mind them telling us they nudged a few things along like Solas’ awakening. But it’s a bit ridiculous that they apparently predicted this would all end with the gods neutralized. Nobody could realistically assure that outcome. That’s the problem with the sort of “it was the evil plan the whole time” plot when it was obviously not planned that way from the start. Loghain bugs me though. It’s more that what makes Loghain interesting to most is the motivation that led him to do what he did. Reducing that to someone literally whispering in his ear manipulating him retroactively reduces his agency. It also bugs me how on earth push Loghain to betray Cailan was apparently supposed to contribute to this plan to neutralize the gods? Don’t they want the Archdemons (And the Evanuris in turn) to be neutralized?
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Post by cribbian on Nov 10, 2024 17:35:13 GMT
Sure reminds me of someone
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IllustriousT
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Post by IllustriousT on Nov 10, 2024 17:38:40 GMT
Yes there is one, Soals turn them to stone before they get to say anything and we just have a vague description of voice and smell. I didn't bother mentioning it and I don't think it's representative. They could be anything: - eldritch horrors from the Fade, - just humans and closer to the origin of the specie (which is the only species that didn't get their "origin" in DAVe), but the timeframe suggest immortals - the scaled humanoids mentioned in previous games - ????? As a random, species origins: - Elves: air - Dwarve: earth - Qunari: fire So Humans would be: water Yes, the "lizard people" which we could see somehow vaguely mentioned in Inquisition. And even see the possible murals of them in the Emerald Graves and Frostback Basin, if I am not mistaken? That was interesting, if it wasn't just easter egg without deeper meaning.
Also, I really well remeber the codex entries in The Descent DLC about the Forgotten war or something like that, when the dwarves? mentioned war and description of some strange beings that lived underground, maybe even under Deep Roads that was hard to kill and worship some strange things? Was that ever somehow clarified or it's still mystery to this day? Because in the codex entries you get after acquiring the discs, in that story there is mentioned a journey into the Deep roads by the elf couple which propably meet some of these strange beings that can't be recognized as some knowned race.
Could that be tied together somehow? Also I think that there was mention of the great seas underground in that codex entries with discs, as well as in the Descent. So what if Executors/Those Across the Sea are not from the "across sea" we normaly have on earth level, but are from underground seas deep under Deep roads? I am not sure if it could make sense in english, but in my mother language it could be interpreted like that.
I like the idea that the seas are within the earth. In The Decent, it looks like it has its own atmosphere as well. Large scale bodies of water in the Deep Roads in Trespasser too. It would make this interesting. "Across the Seas" could have multiple meanings - surface, within, and the metaphysical.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2024 19:43:39 GMT
" I nudge history, when it's required. Other times, a shove is needed." ~ Flemeth in DAI. Also, thinking about it, the Executors's goal might have been to spread the Blight (flamed Loghain's paranoia which impeded fighting the 5th Blight, had Bertrand re-introduce blighted red lyrium, helped the Magisters reach the Black City) or weaken the Veil (since killing the Evanuris did that, but they would try to remove it if not killed and it's now holding to a thread). Instead of being a complex very risky plan to just kill the Evanuris. Also, the title Executors. Who gives the orders? Interesting that they use the term "balanced", because that word is used twice in the Chant of Light. (iThrenodies 5 keeps on giving!): And He knew He had wrought amiss. So the Maker turned from his firstborn And took from the Fade A measure of its living flesh And placed it apart from the Spirits, and spoke to it, saying: Here, I decree Opposition in all things: For earth, sky For winter, summer For darkness, Light. By My Will alone is Balance sundered
(Exaltation aka Drakon's prophetic visions) The sins of creation are redeemed "All sins are forgiven! All crimes pardoned! Let no soul harbor guilt! Let no soul hunger for justice! By the Maker's will I decree Harmony in all things. Let Balance be restored And the world given eternal life."
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 10, 2024 23:29:29 GMT
They're kind of expected. We know that when Inquisition's tease was, er, teased, the writers barely had an idea of what DA4 would be, besides it probably being 'up north'. I'm expecting this is also a leap in the dark to themes that may be central or just a jumping off point. Next year sometime, a small team might start pre-pre-production of ideas... I suspect DA5 will be less connected to Veilguard than Veilguard was a direct sequel to Inquisition. BioWare badly painted themselves into a corner with Mass Effect 3 and had 'buyer's remorse' over Inquisition's Keep. I can't think of any 'choice' in Veilguard that would need to be tracked in 5, that can't be hand-waved past.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 11, 2024 0:01:50 GMT
Next year sometime, a small team might start pre-pre-production of ideas... I suspect DA5 will be less connected to Veilguard than Veilguard was a direct sequel to Inquisition. BioWare badly painted themselves into a corner with Mass Effect 3 and had 'buyer's remorse' over Inquisition's Keep. I can't think of any 'choice' in Veilguard that would need to be tracked in 5, that can't be hand-waved past. I sort of hope they revisit some Joplin ideas. If the enemy is a shadowy secret society, the “spies and heists” premise may work. It would be nice to take a step back from the “god monster” enemy plots for something a little more grounded. As for choices: Whether Dorian or Maevaris are ruling Tevinter could be a big one.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 11, 2024 0:06:26 GMT
They're kind of expected. We know that when Inquisition's tease was, er, teased, the writers barely had an idea of what DA4 would be, besides it probably being 'up north'. I'm expecting this is also a leap in the dark to themes that may be central or just a jumping off point. Next year sometime, a small team might start pre-pre-production of ideas... I suspect DA5 will be less connected to Veilguard than Veilguard was a direct sequel to Inquisition. BioWare badly painted themselves into a corner with Mass Effect 3 and had 'buyer's remorse' over Inquisition's Keep. I can't think of any 'choice' in Veilguard that would need to be tracked in 5, that can't be hand-waved past. Yeah, I think we're getting a full soft reboot for DA5. (Which I'm all in favour of at this point - my biggest problem with Veilguard is that having a better world state set-up would have made it feel like a more meaningful end for the story that started in Origins, but using what happens in DAV as a deck-clearing exercise so they can set up the board again for DA5 was a good idea in and of itself.) Anyway, I'm happy to see whatever's coming next! And smug that those Descent codex entries turned out to be important. One got into an argument with someone on the old forums who insisted they were just an elaborate Krogan joke, but I was right all along!
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