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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 12, 2024 10:39:26 GMT
Oh, Hawke. Haven't thought about that name throughout my 72 hours of playing Veilguard from beginning to end. Once hailed as the "single most important character in the Dragon Age world", when push comes to shove, Hawke is nowhere to be seen.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 12, 2024 11:35:13 GMT
Of course none of this will be resolved until the 2030's... How long before the next one? 8 years? 10 years? Look, I have my fingers crossed that they won't go through two reboots and a novel global pandemic this time! On the other hand they still have to go make Mass Effect 5, which I assume will take a few years.
But if none of that stuff happens again I bet they can get it down to seven years ... which would put it in 2031 .
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 12, 2024 13:03:58 GMT
Hawke is nowhere to be seen. Squished in the Fade? The number of characters 'certainly alive' is fast diminishing.
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Post by saandrig on Nov 12, 2024 13:15:10 GMT
Hawke is nowhere to be seen. Squished in the Fade? The number of characters 'certainly alive' is fast diminishing. Nonsense. The Evanuris desperately clawed their way out of the Fade because Hawke was coming for them.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 12, 2024 13:17:06 GMT
Hawke is nowhere to be seen. Squished in the Fade? The number of characters 'certainly alive' is fast diminishing. I think at this point we're down to Morrigan, Sten (even if he's now Arishok of nothing, poor guy ) Isabela, Aveline and Sebastian from the first two games and everyone in Inquisition except Iron Bull and Blackwall. (Harding talks about Cullen like he's alive, so I guess they retconned that ending slide. They also retconed Blackwall's death if you romanced him, but I guess he's still dead if you didn't get him out of prison.) The Inquisitor can't be dead but I gather they can be gone from Thedas.
(Gosh I wish we could have heard how Provisional Viscount Aveline turning up in Starkhaven with her army went. We know the Free Marches got united under one banner eventually, though, so I guess not as badly as it could have!)
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Post by saandrig on Nov 12, 2024 13:24:18 GMT
(Gosh I wish we could have heard how Provisional Viscount Aveline turning up in Starkhaven with her army went. We know the Free Marches got united under one banner eventually, though, so I guess not as badly as it could have!) Provisional Viscount Aveline: "It's a real nice town for a city."
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Post by SomberXIII on Nov 13, 2024 2:10:22 GMT
I think the only time I teared up during the game was during Bellara's first companion quest. I don't know where that came from but I was slightly affected. Everything that came afterwards? Nah, not so much. I did feel a profound emptiness and some sadness during the ending, but it was really not the.. '' god I love this game so much I don't want it to end I need to start a new playthrough asap, I'm not done yet! '' kind of sadness that I still feel after 1200+ hours played of Inquisition when clearing Trespasser for the millionth time. It was more like... '' I can't believe this is the result of the years I've spent waiting for this game and not even the ending could save it '' kind of sadness. It did make me want to launch another playthrough of Inquisition though! What a painful experience
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Post by SomberXIII on Nov 13, 2024 2:12:28 GMT
I cried Varric died for this shit. I really did. It felt bad. I LOVED da2, Varric was comfort food. Didn't care for the ending, romanced Harding, she died (i knew about Assan, and I didn't want that) ...companions throw you a random line after and it all sounds like they're saying the same. Had a 2 second feeling of satisfaction when I stabbed Solas. That's it. Then the lazy "epilogue" with Harding repeating "Whatever it takes" and flower blooming for the grey wardens, I pressed escape. I don't get that you guys cannot tolerate it that much that you pressed escape yet you talk about the game and grieving every day lol
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Post by fylimar on Nov 13, 2024 7:19:52 GMT
The Varric bit was affecting, but I think it’s a bit of a weak spot logic-wise. I find it hard to believe Harding or Neve would just never feel the need to talk to Rook about what happened to Varric or bring up the fact he died. This, so much. That group of companions talk about everything,even camping trips to a war zone. But somehow, they don't bring up Varric? No mention, no funeral, no nothing? And where is Hawke in n all this? And no, I never leave my Hawkes in the Fade. I'm sorry to say, but Varrics whole writing doesn't make sense and he would cringe so hard. It was a dispense of all logic for a cheap gotcha. And btw the reason, I think,Solas doesn't deserve a happy end.
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Post by Reznore on Nov 13, 2024 7:25:38 GMT
The Varric bit was affecting, but I think it’s a bit of a weak spot logic-wise. I find it hard to believe Harding or Neve would just never feel the need to talk to Rook about what happened to Varric or bring up the fact he died. This, so much. That group of companions talk about everything,even camping trips to a war zone. But somehow, they don't bring up Varric? No mention, no funeral, no nothing? And where is Hawke in n all this? I'm sorry to say, but Varrics whole writing doesn't make sense and he would cringe so hard. It was a dispense of all logic for a cheap gotcha. And btw the reason, I think,Solas doesn't deserve a happy end. Solas is a black hole of not so great writing imho. He's stuck in fade jail because the writer can't have him around and being a semi good guy. Because he isn't.
They get Varric killed to push further the Solas is bad. But Varric wouldn't want to redeem Solas so bad, he was disgusted with Anders. A friend for a whole decade. Solas is already half responsible for the conclave blowing up in DAI...
Then they sacrificed Morrigan/Mythal to say yes Solas can be redeemed. Because Mythal "abused" him. LOL. So Mythal is not a badass grandma on a vengeance trip...she's a sad sack that's been forgotten by Solas. And Morri tells you she can't act against Solas...no reckoning that will shake the very heaven. Hell she's not even foaming at the mouth about Elgar'nan...Because that's Solas who is.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 13, 2024 7:31:18 GMT
This, so much. That group of companions talk about everything,even camping trips to a war zone. But somehow, they don't bring up Varric? No mention, no funeral, no nothing? And where is Hawke in n all this? I'm sorry to say, but Varrics whole writing doesn't make sense and he would cringe so hard. It was a dispense of all logic for a cheap gotcha. And btw the reason, I think,Solas doesn't deserve a happy end. Solas is a black hole of not so great writing imho. He's stuck in fade jail because the writer can't have him around and being a semi good guy. Because he isn't.
They get Varric killed to push further the Solas is bad. But Varric wouldn't want to redeem Solas so bad, he was disgusted with Anders. A friend for a whole decade. Solas is already half responsible for the conclave blowing up in DA2...
Then they sacrificed Morrigan/Mythal to say yes Solas can be redeemed. Because Mythal "abused" him. LOL. So Mythal is not a badass grandma on a vengeance trip...she's a sad sack that's been forgotten by Solas. And Morri tells you she can't act against Solas...no reckoning that will shake the very heaven. Hell she's not even foaming at the mouth about Elgar'nan...Because that's Solas who is. Yeah, this is not good writing. And forgetting the Well of Sorrows completely in this. And yeah, should we now feel sorry for Solas? I certainly don't. He brought everything on himself. I don't like Morrigan very much, but she was another character, that was butchered in this game. The whole Mythal thing just annoys me tbh.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 13, 2024 8:10:34 GMT
I… am devastated. I’ve never had a game make me feel this way before. I'm surprised. The first time I played DAO it affected me in a way no other game had. I've told this before but it does no harm to repeat my experience. When I turned down Morrigan's dark ritual I knew that was likely going to lead to my Warden's death. I guessed that Riorden wouldn't make it but it still didn't make me feel any better that I anticipated it because I knew from then on my Warden was fighting his way to his death. Then when I was about to do it, up stepped Alistair and said I should let him do it, for friendship. I'd made him King but it was clear he never wanted it. He said he would make a lousy King but he could do this one heroic thing as King and sacrifice himself for his people and his friend. In that moment, I realised if I was truly his friend I should let him, so I did. That just blew me away. I was so invested in the world that I was that Warden and all the emotions I felt at the time and in the aftermath were genuine. I was glad we had defeated the Arch-demon and saved Ferelden but I was sad for Alistair and didn't feel I deserved the Hero title they gave to me. That belonged to him. Why I am glad I haven't played DAV is that I feel much of the emotion they create in you is very manufactured. It relies on your previous connection with characters like Varric rather than what you might feel coming to the game for the first time. I had not been happy that he was being used a third time in the setting, particularly as he had no particular reason to be suddenly the Inquisitor's second in command and had his duties in Kirkwall as Viscount to keep him in the south. Now we know why, to give that plot twist later in the game. However, would a new player feel the same way about Varric as old fans would? Wouldn't have been better to have allowed time for Rook to build a genuine rapport with Varric before going after Solas instead of just telling the player they had one? Wouldn't it have done more justice to Varric to have had Rook aware of his death when it occurred, so Varric could have been grieved for properly by the people who knew him, like Harding, and given an appropriate send off? No, instead they had to give a sort of reverse of the kid in ME3, where someone Shepard definitely hadn't been aware of before the beginning of that game suddenly haunts their subconscious. In this case, they explained it with blood magic mind control or something like that. We knew there were going to be emotional moments because back in 2020 they hinted there could be character deaths. However, why Davrin versus Harding specifically? Why wasn't it a choice between all the characters to lead that mission? No, they deliberately chose the two companions that would likely give you the biggest kick in the gut (particularly when they make Assan die too) and all because the allegedly best assassin in Thedas failed to hit his mark again. I do think they should at least have made it possible to save Assan if you had bonded with him previously. Apparently though that made no difference to the outcome whether you had done Davrin's personal quests or not, or am I missing something there? Something I am also curious about, does the outcome at the end with Solas depend on your choice at the end of Trespasser or does Rook make the final call? Since you are a Solasmancer I assume you would have been given every option available or were you railroaded into letting Lavellan reunite with him and go together into oblivion? (Or wherever you like to imagine they ended up) Basically, even if Lavellan (or any other Inquisitor) wanted to "redeem" him, could Rook just go nah, bye, bye Solas? Also, did you get the secret ending and how did you feel about that? For me, whilst a lot of what was revealed in DAV actually confirmed my previous theories, I think the fact they ignored the Keep indicated they really wanted to forget everything that we had done in those games and so DAV was really meant to be a way to start afresh in a revamped setting. So, I prefer to stick with my memories of the old one.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 13, 2024 9:30:10 GMT
gervaise21I totally agree with you about Varrics unimportance for new players. If they had gone with Origin preludes, Vartic could have become a new generations Duncan ( just playing DAO again and Duncan is still alive and I'm still amazed, how much I care for him due to those Origins). Seeing, how Varric recruited Rook, forming a bond and then gets killed could have been powerful. Maybe make it, that Solas fooled everyone, not just Rook, not just Rook,and the whole scene could have been a whole lot better. As it is, I'm just angry, my favourite character died for this trainwreck and new players won't even care about him at all. And yes, making it, that either Davrin and Assan or Harding has to die is just lazy. It's a cheap way to get artificial emotions. It doesn't feel natural or earned in any way. Making a choice about the sacrifice at the end of DAO, or about how you react to eventsxas Hawke ( who do you side with, what is your intention) or even the inquisitor having to decide,who stays in the Fade or what will happen to the Chargers, Blackwall, Cole etc. is all my h more emotional. You don't know, that you doom your sibling, if you take them to the deep roads without Anders in the group, you don't know that your mother will die, if you try to stop a serial killer, you can doom a group of werewolves or elves , if you aren't careful in DAO and much more. Point is, those things happen because of choices you made and it hits hard ( I think, your mother always dies but the rest is based on decisions). Here you can't really avoid it and they purposely used the two characters, most people probably click with in some form and again it involves bad writing. Does Lucanis ever manage to hit something first try? For a famous assassin he sure does a bad job. Where is Zevran, when you need him?
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 13, 2024 11:37:35 GMT
Where is Zevran, when you need him? Failing at his job so badly he not only didn't take out his target but also joined their party .
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 13, 2024 12:25:31 GMT
Where is Zevran, when you need him? Presumably sitting on a beach with my Warden somewhere way out west where they are oblivious to the events of DAV. At least that is where they left them at the end of DAI, minus the beach, that is just my idea. Failing at his job so badly he not only didn't take out his target but also joined their party . No, he wanted to fail because he wanted to die. In some play throughs that can still happen. However, in mine he always survives to take revenge on the Crows. Have you read his history in WoT2? He becomes the "Black Shadow" initially taking out he Grand Master who sent Taliesin after him and then working through House Arainai killing a succession of their Grand Masters. The entry says he has plunged the Crows into chaos as he seemed determined to ally himself with other cuchillos (I'm assuming assassins like himself who feel they were enslaved by the Crows as children) in order to bring about their downfall. So, perhaps the reason the Crows are so useless in DAV is that he took out all the ruthlessly efficient ones and the major houses then simply relied on nepotism to survive. Based off their respective achievements in the games, I'd lay good money on Zevran to take Lucanis since, as I say above, Zevran wanted to miss his mark but once he got back his desire to live he was effective when I asked him to take down an enemy, unlike Lucanis who seemed pretty useless to me.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 13, 2024 13:19:19 GMT
Where is Zevran, when you need him? Failing at his job so badly he not only didn't take out his target but also joined their party . As gerva said: he wanted to fail and die. He did that on purpose unlike Lucanis.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 13:31:11 GMT
Of course none of this will be resolved until the 2030's... How long before the next one? 8 years? 10 years? The story is pretty much wrapped up except a few things here and there left for mystery. I don't think it's worth investing in Dragon Age anymore. Even its own fans find things to hate and find little room to celebrate. The brand just feels toxic now, especially with the culture war nonsense seemingly never ending. It had a good run. Veilguard was a good ending for me.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 13, 2024 13:36:22 GMT
Veilguard was a good ending I agree that the ending is a much better place to be than the cliffhanger of Trespasser.
Varric. How did I not see it?? 3 conversations where the others talk about 'what happened'.
2 times when Varric is 'in the room' and the others totally ignore him.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 21:03:46 GMT
Squished in the Fade? The number of characters 'certainly alive' is fast diminishing. Sten (even if he's now Arishok of nothing, poor guy ) , though, so I guess not as badly as it could have!) There's a codex entry that suggests Sten was .... hurt when the Antaam broke.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 21:04:23 GMT
Veilguard was a good ending I agree that the ending is a much better place to be than the cliffhanger of Trespasser.
Varric. How did I not see it?? 3 conversations where the others talk about 'what happened'.
2 times when Varric is 'in the room' and the others totally ignore him. I didn't see it either. I did have it spoiled to me though unfortunately a few hours before the reveal, but I felt played regardless lol. Very well done by BioWare.
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 13, 2024 21:17:32 GMT
There's a codex entry that suggests Sten was .... hurt when the Antaam broke. Yeah. It specifies that he and whatever's left of the entire Antaam have been incorporated into the Ben-Hassrath, but I can't imagine how he must feel. Centuries of Qunari unity, and then he's the one holding the parcel when it explodes. (I don't think it's his fault at all - the factors that lead to the Antaam running off to murder people and give themselves dumb edgy names have been building since at least DA2 - but being the man he is I'm sure he blames himself.)
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Post by illuminated11 on Nov 14, 2024 10:39:54 GMT
Davrin was my love interest, and when I sent him off and lost him, I was pretty devastated. 4/4 on the tragic romance option, I guess. Lmao.
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Post by fraggle on Nov 15, 2024 13:17:19 GMT
I had unfortunately spoiled myself seeing something about "Davrin and Assan hit hard" and I was already on the edge during the last mission because of it. In the end I decided how my Rook would, and sent Harding because she's a scout, while Davrin would be more help when it came to the Archdemon and more Darkspawn. I had anticipated that Davrin and Assan would die during the fight with the Archdemon, so that turned out surprising. And while Harding's death was emotional I liked Davrin much more and he became best friends with my Rook, sharing the Warden bond and the same mindset about defeating the blight. I don't know if I can ever send Davrin and Assan to their death, that would certainly break me. For me, it's a great way to wrap up DA's story so far. If they want to make more games, they can though. The teasing was pretty exciting. I'm just so glad I could witness everything being tied up. It was super rewarding and satisfying for me. There are few games that hit me so hard, Bioware's seem to pretty often emotionally abuse me and hell I'm up for it
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 15, 2024 19:33:42 GMT
Davrin was my love interest, and when I sent him off and lost him, I was pretty devastated. 4/4 on the tragic romance option, I guess. Lmao. I wanted Davrin and Bellara with me in the final fights, both for elf reasons and just for having my LI with me, and it's hilarious how it paid off for my romance arc cause let me tell you I would have been devastated. But... I feel Davrin makes more sense for a heroic sacrifice than Harding. I feel torn about future playthroughs.
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N7
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Nov 16, 2024 0:26:55 GMT
Davrin was my love interest, and when I sent him off and lost him, I was pretty devastated. 4/4 on the tragic romance option, I guess. Lmao. I wanted Davrin and Bellara with me in the final fights, both for elf reasons and just for having my LI with me, and it's hilarious how it paid off for my romance arc cause let me tell you I would have been devastated. But... I feel Davrin makes more sense for a heroic sacrifice than Harding. I feel torn about future playthroughs.
I would have no problem sacrificing Davrin (Grey Warden thing) if it didn't mean losing Assan too. That fur-feather baby is not getting hurt, ever! I would have totally rage-quit if saving the rest of the griffons wasn't possible.
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