alihou
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 257 Likes: 460
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alihou
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by alihou on Nov 17, 2016 9:03:25 GMT
I feel like people unfairly bash DAI without mentioning all the concessions they had to make just to make it run on old gen consoles. The game suffered a lot as a result. A lot of things were half assed. Frostbite was a brand new engine as well. If you take all those things into account, I thought it was a masterpiece. It did so many things well, that I was willing to let a few things slide. Andromeda has to be a lot bigger and provide more quality in the form of content because it is strictly a current gen game. Plus they've had a good time of development and have worked through the kinks of the frostbite engine. Also, Mass Effect is probably their flagship RPG. I don't want to compare this game to CDPR's Witcher 3, I want it to be better, raise the bar. Hopefully we get something great.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 17, 2016 19:48:29 GMT
I feel like people unfairly bash DAI without mentioning all the concessions they had to make just to make it run on old gen consoles. The game suffered a lot as a result. A lot of things were half assed. Frostbite was a brand new engine as well. If you take all those things into account, I thought it was a masterpiece. It did so many things well, that I was willing to let a few things slide. Andromeda has to be a lot bigger and provide more quality in the form of content because it is strictly a current gen game. Plus they've had a good time of development and have worked through the kinks of the frostbite engine. Also, Mass Effect is probably their flagship RPG. I don't want to compare this game to CDPR's Witcher 3, I want it to be better, raise the bar. Hopefully we get something great. That is a good point. I agree. At the time I thought DAI was pretty decent for a first attempt at (semi) open world. I even called it the best Dragon Age game (changed that to DA2 after replaying Hawke). And I actually never want to go back to small corridor maps. It's more in retrospect after playing games like W3 and Skyrim (yes, played it only last year!) that the flaws stuck out more. And now I'm scared of replaying because I don't want to taint my memory of it. I did have a blast with the game despite various issues. It's what you're pointing out, that they didn't have Frostbite figured out yet and had to make the game work on old gen consoles too, that gives me hope that Andromeda will play a lot better. It MUST play better. They need to get it right this time. Combat especially is where the game absolutely needs to deliver. ME3 set the bar high for me. It was so much fun. Biotics were a beauty in that game. I'm currently replaying as a vanguard just for the combat (ok, and the Garrus romance^^). It's that much fun to me. I don't expect MEA to surpass W3 in the gameplay department. But I'll be happy as a beaver if it's on the same level. I'll even be content with not quite there if the story is kickass awesome and the squad sexy.
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kumazan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 772 Likes: 1,553
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kumazan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kumazan on Nov 17, 2016 20:03:27 GMT
-snip- I don't expect MEA to surpass W3 in the gameplay department. But I'll be happy as a beaver if it's on the same level. I'll even be content with not quite there if the story is kickass awesome and the squad sexy. Why? If there's something I'd expect ME:A to surpass W3 in is precisely gameplay. As much as CDPR improved from the poor gameplay of W1 and the good but not quite there of W2, gameplay is still possibly the weakest feature of W3. I'd even rank ME3 above it.
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lezio
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Innateagle
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lezio
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by lezio on Nov 17, 2016 20:55:01 GMT
I feel like people unfairly bash DAI without mentioning all the concessions they had to make just to make it run on old gen consoles. The game suffered a lot as a result. A lot of things were half assed. Frostbite was a brand new engine as well. If you take all those things into account, I thought it was a masterpiece. It did so many things well, that I was willing to let a few things slide. Andromeda has to be a lot bigger and provide more quality in the form of content because it is strictly a current gen game. Plus they've had a good time of development and have worked through the kinks of the frostbite engine. Also, Mass Effect is probably their flagship RPG. I don't want to compare this game to CDPR's Witcher 3, I want it to be better, raise the bar. Hopefully we get something great. Kind of tired to judge BW's games based on what they could have been, honestly Plus, i think DA2 does a much better job of being a good game, in spite of all the problems in its development, than Inquisition. To be brief, IMHO, the former is an ugly-looking gem that is still worth quite a lot, and that would have simply needed just a bit more to become truly amazing. The latter is just a really shiny rock, quite nice on the surface (cuz Inquisition has its moments) but, in the end, worth little (the main plot, the areas) Also, not to be cynical, i really doubt Andromeda will raise the bar the same way W3 did. Then again, i, for one, just want for BW to first worry about refinding their footing, and if they have to play it safe to do so, then, by all means. Truth be told, to be satisfied i'd just need this game to be good (or even decent, with much good stuff in it)
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 17, 2016 20:57:54 GMT
-snip- I don't expect MEA to surpass W3 in the gameplay department. But I'll be happy as a beaver if it's on the same level. I'll even be content with not quite there if the story is kickass awesome and the squad sexy. Why? If there's something I'd expect ME:A to surpass W3 in is precisely gameplay. As much as CDPR improved from the poor gameplay of W1 and the good but not quite there of W2, gameplay is still possibly the weakest feature of W3. I'd even rank ME3 above it. I thought the game played amazingly smooth and combat was so much fun. NOT as fun as ME3 but fast and dynamic. I never got tired of killing monsters. W1 played like shit, I gave up after 4 hours. Quest design was a total slog too. Go to A, go to B, go back to A, now back to B, back to A. Seriously? I spent hours in one small boring area trying to get into the city! Terrible. W2 was great fun at the time but W3 is miles better. What I love about W3 is how people react to Geralt, how he can climb cliffs, jumps over fences. That sort of thing. The animations were good. It all felt so alive. The environments weren't just pretty but unmoving stages. That world was breathing. And being inside it felt great. Stormy weather was impressive as hell. Day/night cycle. Swimming. GWENT!!!! Don't know if this generally falls under gameplay. Maybe it's more world building. In any case, impressive game in that respect. Everything about DAI was stiff as fuck. Bioware somehow made facial animations WORSE than before. The jump animation was an abomination. Combat had a million special affects but was actually kind of slow. And not fun to me. Like so many people said, DAI looks pretty but the maps are lifeless and dull. There is little to do apart from fighting. No real interaction with anything. ...which didn't bother me THAT much at the time, don't get me wrong. I'm actually fairly easy to please in the gameplay department. I loved crafting! I'm pointing out flaws but I don't hate the game for it. There was plenty to love about DAI. In fact, they put so much awesome banter in it. Lots of cool little details. A lot of love gets poured into every Bioware game. They just totally ignore certain aspects of their games and half-ass them. Which is a pity. Then again I've never played a perfect game. And I don't expect one.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 17, 2016 21:13:55 GMT
I feel like people unfairly bash DAI without mentioning all the concessions they had to make just to make it run on old gen consoles. The game suffered a lot as a result. A lot of things were half assed. Frostbite was a brand new engine as well. If you take all those things into account, I thought it was a masterpiece. It did so many things well, that I was willing to let a few things slide. Andromeda has to be a lot bigger and provide more quality in the form of content because it is strictly a current gen game. Plus they've had a good time of development and have worked through the kinks of the frostbite engine. Also, Mass Effect is probably their flagship RPG. I don't want to compare this game to CDPR's Witcher 3, I want it to be better, raise the bar. Hopefully we get something great. Kind of tired to judge BW's games based on what they could have been, honestly Plus, i think DA2 does a much better job of being a good game, in spite of all the problems in its development, than Inquisition. To be brief, IMHO, the former is an ugly-looking gem that is still worth quite a lot, and that would have simply needed just a bit more to become truly amazing. The latter is just a really shiny rock, quite nice on the surface (cuz Inquisition has its moments) but, in the end, worth little (the main plot, the areas) Also, not to be cynical, i really doubt Andromeda will raise the bar the same way W3 did. Then again, i, for one, just want for BW to first worry about refinding their footing, and if they have to play it safe to do so, then, by all means. Truth be told, to be satisfied i'd just need this game to be good (or even decent, with much good stuff in it) I think it's a matter of personal opinion. You have people who prefer vastly DA2 over DAI as well as the opposite. Same goes for DAO. I think both games suffered for something that restrained the development (dev time DA2, working on Frostbite/old gen/open world for DAI).
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 17, 2016 21:19:03 GMT
Why? If there's something I'd expect ME:A to surpass W3 in is precisely gameplay. As much as CDPR improved from the poor gameplay of W1 and the good but not quite there of W2, gameplay is still possibly the weakest feature of W3. I'd even rank ME3 above it. I thought the game played amazingly smooth and combat was so much fun. NOT as fun as ME3 but fast and dynamic. I never got tired of killing monsters. W1 played like shit, I gave up after 4 hours. Quest design was a total slog too. Go to A, go to B, go back to A, now back to B, back to A. Seriously? I spent hours in one small boring area trying to get into the city! Terrible. W2 was great fun at the time but W3 is miles better. What I love about W3 is how people react to Geralt, how he can climb cliffs, jumps over fences. That sort of thing. The animations were good. It all felt so alive. The environments weren't just pretty but unmoving stages. That world was breathing. And being inside it felt great. Stormy weather was impressive as hell. Day/night cycle. Swimming. GWENT!!!! Don't know if this generally falls under gameplay. Maybe it's more world building. In any case, impressive game in that respect. Everything about DAI was stiff as fuck. Bioware somehow made facial animations WORSE than before. The jump animation was an abomination. Combat had a million special affects but was actually kind of slow. And not fun to me. Like so many people said, DAI looks pretty but the maps are lifeless and dull. There is little to do apart from fighting. No real interaction with anything. ...which didn't bother me THAT much at the time, don't get me wrong. I'm actually fairly easy to please in the gameplay department. I loved crafting! I'm pointing out flaws but I don't hate the game for it. There was plenty to love about DAI. In fact, they put so much awesome banter in it. Lots of cool little details. A lot of love gets poured into every Bioware game. They just totally ignore certain aspects of their games and half-ass them. Which is a pity. Then again I've never played a perfect game. And I don't expect one. I don't think the combat in MEA will be affected by what we saw in DAI. The base will be ME3, expecially the MP. From what we saw so far they improved a lot in the graphics department, hopefully animation as well. As for the open world, it's something we have to wait and see in the game.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 17, 2016 22:52:41 GMT
The thing of the matter is Inqusition was not an exploration game. It had exploration elements to it but then so does most RPGs ever made. But the central point in Inqusition was not "explore this world" but "stop that foe". Andromeda on the other hand the whole point is to 'find a new home for humanity', which especially given what we know about the beginning of the game sets it up for exploration. Thus, at least one of Inqusitions most complained about elements, (and rpgs in general) 'why are we doing this' is thus neutralized.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 18, 2016 0:45:31 GMT
I do agree that Andromeda is more appropriately Exploration because you're literally on uncharted territory the whole time, and unlike DA:I it makes sense in that regard, so exploration is a natural part of the story.
That said, I don't expect it to be more exploration-driven gameplay-wise than DA:I. I still expect blips and littered quest markers on the map and each planet feeling like a world area in DA:I and so far the tweets make it sound like it.
But I did enjoy DA:I as far as the Haven section of the game. They've learned their lesson with ME:A (or it's just coincidental) since the Tempest is very compact, exactly what I enjoyed about Haven over Skyhold in DA:I, so all your war table like stuff and all companions are not several buildings apart from each other, making you either fast travel and sit behind loading screens or going the long way by foot just to have a dozen of 2 minute conversations or checking in when nobody has anything new to say.
I really hope I can keep myself from being completionist in ME:A if its areas are like in DA:I where there's a main objective, repeated tasks like setting up colonies (aka Keeps) or camps, extracting Remant stuff for fuel so we can launch the next mission on our Galaxy Map.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 18, 2016 1:30:30 GMT
I think the problem with Skyhold was that it was meant to be both the hub like the Normandy, as your command center, and kind of a city replacement. I think separating them like MEA is doing (Tempest as the commande center and other locations as city hubs) might be better.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 18, 2016 2:40:21 GMT
I think where ME:A won't surpass W3 is in graphics and animation. I never really thought too much about it except i thought ME3 and DA:I had really jarring moments, especially because the graphcis had advanced while the animations hadn't done so enough, but W3 was just impressive in every way. It's like GTA-levels of things moving and feeling alive and the facial animations look incredible for something that's seemingly procedurally generated.
I just much prefer BioWare titles' overall flow of interactive dialogue though. I could do without the terrible mocap animations though. For some reason BioWare can't figure out how to make scenes where characters stumble or move into things. They always end up making these awkward movements as if there's a swarm of bees over their heads. I'm thinking of several moments I just reexperienced in DA:I and in particular when Maya Brooks shows up at the Sushi place in Citadel DLC. It's their mocap direction; it's awful. I think they have only stuntmen for motion capture performances but they don't have very good instructions or choreography for them, so they end up with really exagerrated and overacted body movements.
But then on the flipside there were some moments in ME3 where the animations became really impressive all of a sudden, like when Kaidan kisses your hand during his romance and makes an endearing look - made me have the biggest grin because it looks to real for everything else in the game!.
But I think especially eye-area animations need to be looked through. DA:I nails accurate mouth movement most of the time except there's a bit of delay on it for some reason, but the eyes are often really monotonous and sometimes they look angry for no reason and stuff. The worst one is often in ME3 they make a shrug animation of some sort and turn their head away but the eyes are still tracking the character being spoken to, so they look dead in the eyes. Actually ME1 was absolutely incredible when it came to just facial animations in static camera angles. They had those really awkward animations when they left a conversation as if they were rolling eyes almost, but otherwise it looked super smooth, to the point where I've always wondered if there's some third party software powerign their digital acting in ME1.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 18, 2016 20:36:32 GMT
It REALLY didn't help that DAI had atrocious PC loading times for even my hefty rig so it really took away from the exploration bit. Really? Loading times were so fast with my rig I never got to read any of the loading screen tips and lore. It was 3-4 seconds.
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