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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 23, 2016 17:00:34 GMT
Patrol doesn't mean massive fleet. And that actually only makes it worse if the majority of the Fleets were at other Relays then it means the Geth Fleet still crushed multiple Fleets to even reach the Citadel. Which would also explain why in ME 2 it is stated that a Human Fleet had to protect the Citadel for what was it 8 months. Any speculation as to the numbers sent and distributed is just that, speculation. It's never officially stated so we don't know. What we do know though is that Sovereign and the geth beelined it for the Citadel, they didn't stop and engage ships along the way. This is specifically stated to be the failing of the Council's strategy. They thought Saren would have to stop and fight along the way, they didn't count on the Citadel being attacked directly and for Saren to have a backdoor in. Alternatively you could read that as Sovereign smashing through the forces along the way though that wouldn't account for all or an overwhelming number of them as there are many paths to the Citadel and it only took one (meanwhile the Council spread it's fleet in all directions). It may also not have been the one that's a straight line from Virmire. Sovereign's direct but it's not stupid. A surprise attack tends to work better if you come from a direction you're not expected to. As well the fact that if they were stationed at Relays the second a distress signal would have been sent from any of the previous fights from Virmine to the Citadel the Geth took. The use of Relays would allow instant travel. Meaning by the time Shepard unlocks the relays around the Citadel far more then just the Alliance Fleet should have poured in. Possibly, but this would make the choice moot altogether. If every fleet jumped back in along with the Alliance, the latter would hardly be necessary to save the DA. They could beeline for Sovereign undisturbed while the Citadel Fleet rescued its own or head for the DA and let someone else go straight for Sovereign. Either way, both bases would be covered. The choice to sacrifice the Council should have within all game universe logic resulted in the Citadel Fleet being over whelmed without the Alliance taking out a few Geth ships and taking the heat off the DA. Which would also result in the Alliance Fleet being caught between a rock and a hard place. They had to destroy Sovereign who was capable of destroying Alliance Ships in one hit. They needed every ship attacking him but blindly attacking would allow the Geth to pick ships off one by one destroying the Alliance Fleet. Ships breaking off to engage the Geth would only result in Sovereign taking less heat thus allowing him to sit on his perch till he regained control of the Citadel. Call in the Reaper Fleet and wipe everyone out. The paragon choice at least has some basis to have the events play out as they did using in game logic. The Renegade option hand waves a metric ton of stuff to allow it to happen and any attempt to justify it is contradicted by information in later games. Like ME 2 were the Alliance had to protect the Citadel for 8 months because the Battle of the Citadel decimated the Citadel Fleet to the point they couldn't protect the Citadel anymore for a few months before ships could be brought in to replace the lost ones. Obviously the writing here is not airtight. But your conclusion doesn't follow. You can make the case I did above, that with the relays reopening, fleets should've poured in up the ass from every direction, which would've made this choice a non-issue. I suspect they really wanted the choice though and didn't bother patching the holes (not the first or last time this would happen). The delay of those other fleets is what you have to hand wave or headcanon. Perhaps not all relays unlock simultaneously, and the Alliance simply got lucky that they were the first to be able to jump in. The facts of the case are this: the Alliance is the first on the scene, they have a choice of stopping to help an ally or focusing on the enemy (classic paragon/renegade shenanigans). If helping the ally is a shatterpoint for the whole situation, then again the choice is moot, is it not? A choice with only one right answer is not much of a choice. By that same token if I turned around and claimed that without the Alliance fleet at least distracting Sovereign by forcing it to divide its attention by slaughtering them, it would finish opening the relay before reinforcements arrived, that would again throw the choice part out the window. So the intent is that ultimately both choices are viable. So we have to work out the details to make it so since apparently they didn't. Then there's also the issue of equating the DA with the fleet as a whole. The claim that without the DA the fleet is useless or conversely that saving the DA will provide you with all the rearguard you need. Nonsense. The DA was overwhelmed, its Guardian lasers and barriers offline. They were also evacuating the Council. What kind of rearguard would they provide? Shields recharge and weapons can be brought back online but if the claim is that the geth speed after the Alliance, there's not enough time for that. And again, the Council's on board. Not only are they shown to be selfish and shortsighted throughout the trilogy, but from an objective protection point of view, trying to guard multiple separate targets is a fool's game. If the DA is charged with keeping the Council safe, keeping the Alliance fleet safe is a contrary objective. Strongest ship though it may be it's still the Citadel version of Air Force One at this point. Charging back in to provide cover for the Alliance would be counter to their purpose. No, in all likelihood once you save the DA it retreats to a safe distance and probably get an escort so it doesn't get overwhelmed again. Which, ironically subtracts from the number of Citadel Fleet ships available to act as rearguard. Again focusing on Sovereign is the right call, by all accounts, for reasons I've already stated in addition to what I just argued. Saving the DA is the idealistic "no man left behind" choice but it's not the pragmatic choice, nor is it the only choice by any means. And as other people have been quick to point out to me, Shepard is a groundpounder, not an Admiral and he's the one that makes the choice. Hackett is the admiral, it's his fleet and he had the readouts. If Shepard's order was tactically non-viable he should and would have countermanded it. He didn't, therefore it's viable. Also final btw, the Alliance has such a big role in the fleets in ME2, not just because of the casualties but because with the DA gone, the asari pretty much pull out of their obligations and leave their share to the turians. Talk about sore losers.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 8, 2016 18:32:02 GMT
The few times I've played as male Shepard, Kaidan has never survived Virmire
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Post by Darth Dennis on Dec 8, 2016 22:37:56 GMT
I've never cleared the whole journal in any of the three games. I got so close in ME1, even doing all the collection quests, except Wrex: Family Armor bugged out.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Dec 13, 2016 15:30:02 GMT
I've never used Morinth in my party. I've never let Anderson die at the end of Mass Effect 3. I've never continued my Mass Effect 1 romance with Ashley. I've never played Citadel. I've never romanced Diana Allers.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 13, 2016 16:06:07 GMT
I've never let Anderson die at the end of Mass Effect 3. Alt-F4? Or wait, do you mean letting TIM shoot him?
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Post by themikefest on Dec 13, 2016 17:10:08 GMT
I believe I've let TIM shoot Anderson more times than not
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 13, 2016 23:28:44 GMT
Well, many of you are missing out on an awful lot of extra dialogue and character moments. Edi is far more interesting without the Joker relationship, not curing the genophage creates some great little scenes where Shepard wrestles with his/her decision, especially if Paragon, etc., etc. However, saving the Council/letting them die has precisely no effect on the game. Bizarre.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 14, 2016 0:19:35 GMT
Well, many of you are missing out on an awful lot of extra dialogue and character moments. Edi is far more interesting without the Joker relationship, not curing the genophage creates some great little scenes where Shepard wrestles with his/her decision, especially if Paragon, etc., etc. However, saving the Council/letting them die has precisely no effect on the game. Bizarre. I've got all the struggle I need with the decision to reveal the sabotage early or not. The way Eve notices how tense Shepard is and keeps asking about it and how Shepard tries to reassure her he's fine. So many subtexts you could throw on that. I consider it one of the greatest roleplaying moments of the trilogy and it's all in my head.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 14, 2016 0:24:58 GMT
Well, many of you are missing out on an awful lot of extra dialogue and character moments. Such as?
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Post by melbella on Dec 14, 2016 2:03:08 GMT
Well, many of you are missing out on an awful lot of extra dialogue and character moments. Edi is far more interesting without the Joker relationship, not curing the genophage creates some great little scenes where Shepard wrestles with his/her decision, especially if Paragon, etc., etc. However, saving the Council/letting them die has precisely no effect on the game. Bizarre.
I would disagree with this somewhat. The Citadel in ME2 has an entirely different feel to it if the original Council is dead, and the "anti-human" movement going on actually makes a lot more sense. Reactions from various NPCs are quite different than if the Council was saved.
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 14, 2016 6:42:51 GMT
Well, many of you are missing out on an awful lot of extra dialogue and character moments. Edi is far more interesting without the Joker relationship, not curing the genophage creates some great little scenes where Shepard wrestles with his/her decision, especially if Paragon, etc., etc. However, saving the Council/letting them die has precisely no effect on the game. Bizarre.
I would disagree with this somewhat. The Citadel in ME2 has an entirely different feel to it if the original Council is dead, and the "anti-human" movement going on actually makes a lot more sense. Reactions from various NPCs are quite different than if the Council was saved.
Only thing that stood out for me was the reaction of the turian gun seller on the Citadel. Maybe a couple of extra lines of dialogue here and there. Wrex's death, for instance, has a much greater effect on the game. That's what I expected from the Council dying. Something that would follow you for the rest of the trilogy.
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 14, 2016 6:45:03 GMT
Well, many of you are missing out on an awful lot of extra dialogue and character moments. Such as? Make different decisions and find out. That's what the game is about after all.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 14, 2016 13:16:33 GMT
Make different decisions and find out. That's what the game is about after all. Since you mentioned that. Did you know completing the turian bomb mission just before Cronos, Hackett has an extra line of dialogue? Or how about Anderson has different lines of dialogue at the fob based on the players ems? I've played the game many times. So I was curious what dialogue you mean when you said many of you are missing a lot of extra dialogue.
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 14, 2016 16:43:47 GMT
Make different decisions and find out. That's what the game is about after all. Since you mentioned that. Did you know completing the turian bomb mission just before Cronos, Hackett has an extra line of dialogue? Or how about Anderson has different lines of dialogue at the fob based on the players ems? I've played the game many times. So I was curious what dialogue you mean when you said many of you are missing a lot of extra dialogue. As I have no idea what kind of decisions you've made I have no idea what you've missed. And even if I did there's no way I could tell you as there's so much and my memory is not eidetic. However, my point was if you make the same decisions every time, as many here seem to, then you're missing a lot.
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Post by AGECCR on Dec 14, 2016 19:01:57 GMT
- Never saved Ashley - Never played Shepard as anything except Paragon/Infiltrator/Earthborn and War Hero - Never romanced anyone outside Garrus, Thane, and Kaidan (Thane once and Kaidan in ME1 only. Garrus the other 50x) - Never seen the series without Wrex - Never played Omega DLC or Pinnacle Station - Never sacrificed the Council - Never spared the Collector base - Never took the Dalatross' offer - Never changed my Shepard's look from my custom since the beginning (same hair/eye color, etc.) - Never played MaleShep - Never punched the reporter
[edit]
- Never chose Geth or Quarians. Convinced them both to work together. - Never chose to destroy the heretic geth - Never saw Kolyat shoot the politician - Never let Garrus kill Sidonis - Never saw Miranda not meet her sister in ME2 - Never saw anything except taking Jacob's father to prison in his loyalty mission - Never saw anyone's romance in ME3 except Garrus - Never let the bomb go off on Tuchanka - Never gave anything or anyone over to Cerberus - Never not willingly consented to being arrested at the end of Arrival. Nor have I ever tried to not warn the Batarians about the impending collision. - Never chose Synthesis or Refuse - Never chose to kill the Rachni - Never sabotaged the genophage cure - Never told Anderson to do anything but go in Udina's office to unlock the Normandy in ME1 - Never let Mordin kill Maelon or destroyed the data
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 14, 2016 23:40:04 GMT
Off the top of my head: - Never hung up on the Council in ME1 You're missing on with this one. Honestly, I'm really hanging up on Sparatus. He's a racist jerk. It's just that the rest of the Council is on the same call.
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Post by seracen on Dec 15, 2016 0:37:38 GMT
Glad to see I am not the only one who just couldn't bear to make certain choices, lol!
Myself, I...
Never let the old Council Die Never let the Rachni queen die Never let the squaddies or Shep die in ME2 Never fought Saren's first form (always talked him into shooting himself) Never let Wrex die, and thus... Never scuttled the Genophage, nor allowed Eve to die Never allowed anything less than peace between the Geth and the Quarians Never played as a soldier (actually, I think I used one long enough to unlock ASR's for other classes in ME1, but after that never again).
I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind!
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Post by Lavochkin on Dec 15, 2016 21:00:58 GMT
Off the top of my head: - Never hung up on the Council in ME1 You're missing on with this one. Honestly, I'm really hanging up on Sparatus. He's a racist jerk. It's just that the rest of the Council is on the same call. Well, I've seen it on YT but i always found that decision to be too silly to seriously contemplate in any non-joke playthrough, even with a renegade shep that ultimately deliberately allows them to die off at the end of ME1. Shep IS supposed be advancing human interests with the council with the whole spectre business, and that's... counterproductive to say the least.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 15, 2016 21:25:27 GMT
You're missing on with this one. Honestly, I'm really hanging up on Sparatus. He's a racist jerk. It's just that the rest of the Council is on the same call. Well, I've seen it on YT but i always found that decision to be too silly to seriously contemplate in any non-joke playthrough, even with a renegade shep that ultimately deliberately allows them to die off at the end of ME1. Shep IS supposed be advancing human interests with the council with the whole spectre business, and that's... counterproductive to say the least. In theoryy, it's counterproductive. In actual gameplay it doesn't matter at all. They may not like that you're doing it but it's not like they listen to anything you have to say anyway. Truthfully, the replacement Council is a lot nicer. But, then, maybe it's because they know Shepard isn't afraid to sacrifice them if it's convenient.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 23:14:20 GMT
Gosh, It's hard to think of anything I haven't done allready, I've done pretty much every character you can think. The on big elephant in the room is that I've never completed the suicide mission of everyone alive. I just don't like the game very much without a feeling that our victory came at some price.
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Post by melbella on Dec 16, 2016 2:08:44 GMT
Never did the fighting pit on Tuchanka in ME2 or hit one of the pyjacs
I always punch the pyjak. Sometimes I put Urz in the fighting pit but not all the time.
I wonder how much of a "get into everything" pet the MEA pyjak is going to be? You know, you bring back your LI for a little private time only to discover your underthings scattered all over the floor of your quarters? Pyjak is sitting in the middle of the biggest pile looking very .
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 16, 2016 3:01:07 GMT
Secret shame: I've never punched the reporter. Even on my renegades, who'd rather yell at her. It just seems so... petty and random. Not very Shepard for my brigade so far.
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Post by melbella on Dec 16, 2016 5:01:22 GMT
I always punch the pyjak. Sometimes I put Urz in the fighting pit but not all the time.
I wonder how much of a "get into everything" pet the MEA pyjak is going to be? You know, you bring back your LI for a little private time only to discover your underthings scattered all over the floor of your quarters? Pyjak is sitting in the middle of the biggest pile looking very .
we get a pet pyjak in MEA? wow cool. Heh just like a cat or dog! Shredding the toilet paper and leather chair!
We do! But, it only comes with the deluxe/super deluxe versions, not the standard version.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 16, 2016 20:51:55 GMT
You're missing on with this one. Honestly, I'm really hanging up on Sparatus. He's a racist jerk. It's just that the rest of the Council is on the same call. Well, I've seen it on YT but i always found that decision to be too silly to seriously contemplate in any non-joke playthrough, even with a renegade shep that ultimately deliberately allows them to die off at the end of ME1. Shep IS supposed be advancing human interests with the council with the whole spectre business, and that's... counterproductive to say the least. See, I know it can't be justified seriously, but it's just too good (read: funny) to pass up. It's the same with punching Al-Jilani. A few weeks ago on my most recent playthrough I finally did the interview with her properly. And yeah that works better for serious character establishment, and you can shut her down pretty easily. But I still reloaded the save and punched her out (just a little later). It's just pure hilarity. Since these choices don't matter I can headcanon that I did it properly but I'm punching/hanging up every time now. This is gold: Secret shame: I've never punched the reporter. Even on my renegades, who'd rather yell at her. It just seems so... petty and random. Not very Shepard for my brigade so far.
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Post by Lavochkin on Dec 16, 2016 22:24:03 GMT
Problem with Al-Jilani is that they turn her into a joke character in the sequels, she was more serious character in the first game, where she was simply a humancentric biased reporter(she would support Renegade shepard if he took the intimidate options). If they would've kept that in the sequels then my renegade wouldn't have punched her out repeatedly.
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