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Post by Crim on Apr 26, 2017 13:16:15 GMT
I just completed Peebee's loyalty mission for the first time (it was bugged on my first playthrough and the patch didn't fix it). That was crazy fun. Kinda like Indiana Jones with all the ducking and weaving and exploding. My logical Ryder was mad, of course, but I thoroughly enjoyed the chaos. Makes perfect sense to kill Kalinda. Cannot dispute this. HOWEVER ... My experience over the years with BioWare games in Dragon Age and Mass Effect has taught me that dead characters = lack of content. For example, no future cameos. No dialogue that mentions this person. No fun side quests. Just pffft. Nothing. Kill Kalinda now, that's the end of it. Kalinda lives, Peebee might mention her in passing in a future game. How much is that extra line worth? Roleplay vs metagaming at its finest. =p>implying she is a worthwhile/interesting character to begin with. She's trash and stands in the way of getting that sweet sweet remtech. Bitch bye.
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 26, 2017 13:49:50 GMT
For me personally, although I can't ever really justify executing someone in cold blood while they're completely defenseless, I would still have to speak out against killing Kalinda. In many ways, I see defying Peebee's own wishes and killing her ex 'for her own good' to be an emotionally abusive technique perhaps on par with something Kalinda herself may have done. If my Ryder wasn't romancing Peebee then I could perhaps get behind them deciding to kill Kalinda, but in the context of romancing her, it becomes a far more problematic act in my view. I mean, the fact that Peebee is willing to sacrifice the tech that she risked everything for to save Kalinda just goes to demonstrate for me the sort of emotional investment she has in her.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 26, 2017 14:21:01 GMT
For me personally, although I can't ever really justify executing someone in cold blood while they're completely defenseless, I would still have to speak out against killing Kalinda. In many ways, I see defying Peebee's own wishes and killing her ex 'for her own good' to be an emotionally abusive technique perhaps on par with something Kalinda herself may have done. If my Ryder wasn't romancing Peebee then I could perhaps get behind them deciding to kill Kalinda, but in the context of romancing her, it becomes a far more problematic act in my view. I mean, the fact that Peebee is willing to sacrifice the tech that she risked everything for to save Kalinda just goes to demonstrate for me the sort of emotional investment she has in her. While on one hand I can see your reasoning, and that's a big part of why I didn't kill her the first go-around, the fact that Kalinda just tried to have us all killed weighs heavily on the decision. It's not juat "For Peebee's own good" it's "a crazy abusive person who just tried to murder us." Kalinda is manipulative enough that I don't trust her to not attempt something similar again, and so, like all true renegade decisions, it's a case of "stop the problem before it comes around again."
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 26, 2017 14:25:28 GMT
For me personally, although I can't ever really justify executing someone in cold blood while they're completely defenseless, I would still have to speak out against killing Kalinda. In many ways, I see defying Peebee's own wishes and killing her ex 'for her own good' to be an emotionally abusive technique perhaps on par with something Kalinda herself may have done. If my Ryder wasn't romancing Peebee then I could perhaps get behind them deciding to kill Kalinda, but in the context of romancing her, it becomes a far more problematic act in my view. I mean, the fact that Peebee is willing to sacrifice the tech that she risked everything for to save Kalinda just goes to demonstrate for me the sort of emotional investment she has in her. I think this decision is an example of the good that can come out of getting rid of the renegade and paragon system. Without being locked into that paradigm your decision can be based on the particular rp you are doing. My first Sara, was casual & emotional and was supporting her crew in their decisions whenever she could, so Kalinda lived. My second Sara is more logical and would think that Peebee is blinded by all the emotional abuse Kalinda put her through and so is not thinking straight, so Kalinda will be shot. (not there yet) With the renegade and paragon system, I'd base my decision on whether or not this was a renegade or paragon Ryder, without thinking about it much.
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Post by RhiannoN7 on Apr 26, 2017 14:28:53 GMT
For me personally, although I can't ever really justify executing someone in cold blood while they're completely defenseless, I would still have to speak out against killing Kalinda. In many ways, I see defying Peebee's own wishes and killing her ex 'for her own good' to be an emotionally abusive technique perhaps on par with something Kalinda herself may have done. If my Ryder wasn't romancing Peebee then I could perhaps get behind them deciding to kill Kalinda, but in the context of romancing her, it becomes a far more problematic act in my view. I mean, the fact that Peebee is willing to sacrifice the tech that she risked everything for to save Kalinda just goes to demonstrate for me the sort of emotional investment she has in her. While on one hand I can see your reasoning, and that's a big part of why I didn't kill her the first go-around, the fact that Kalinda just tried to have us all killed weighs heavily on the decision. It's not juat "For Peebee's own good" it's "a crazy abusive person who just tried to murder us." Kalinda is manipulative enough that I don't trust her to not attempt something similar again, and so, like all true renegade decisions, it's a case of "stop the problem before it comes around again."This is how I feel but I would like to add she doesn't just pose a risk to peebee she threatens ryder and infiltrates the ship posing a risk to the whole crew.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 26, 2017 14:30:39 GMT
While on one hand I can see your reasoning, and that's a big part of why I didn't kill her the first go-around, the fact that Kalinda just tried to have us all killed weighs heavily on the decision. It's not juat "For Peebee's own good" it's "a crazy abusive person who just tried to murder us." Kalinda is manipulative enough that I don't trust her to not attempt something similar again, and so, like all true renegade decisions, it's a case of "stop the problem before it comes around again."This is how I feel but I would like to add she doesn't just pose a risk to peebee she threatens ryder and infiltrates the ship posing a risk to the whole crew. Yeah, that last bit was in reference to my first line in that post. I don't trust her to not try to have us all killed again, so solve the problem before it becomes one again.
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Post by joglee on Apr 26, 2017 15:15:29 GMT
For me personally, although I can't ever really justify executing someone in cold blood while they're completely defenseless, I would still have to speak out against killing Kalinda. In many ways, I see defying Peebee's own wishes and killing her ex 'for her own good' to be an emotionally abusive technique perhaps on par with something Kalinda herself may have done. If my Ryder wasn't romancing Peebee then I could perhaps get behind them deciding to kill Kalinda, but in the context of romancing her, it becomes a far more problematic act in my view. I mean, the fact that Peebee is willing to sacrifice the tech that she risked everything for to save Kalinda just goes to demonstrate for me the sort of emotional investment she has in her. kalinda tried to kill me, Peebee, and a third. All to steal Remtech for her own. Killing her had nothing to do with what is best for Peebee. Anyone willing to send a squad of mercenaries to kill us has to go.
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Post by elanor on Apr 26, 2017 15:26:43 GMT
We should be better then that. Kalinda seems to be changed after all this. If she atack me again I will totally kill her. I give her one chance. Kett lady (actually I shoot her ) is crazy brainwashed and if we don't kill her she will keep killing people. Probably someone else will take her place but still it will give us some time. I gave Rana chance too, happened I was wrong. If I'm wrong this time by killing Kalinda, I'll change my choice. But I doubt they'll ever make anything good from her. Kett lady is crazy brainwashed who tried to kill us, Kalinda is an abusive bitch, a sociopath and tried to kill us as well Same thing to me Kett lady killed and will continue to do that to many people. Kalinda only tried to kill us. It's not easy decision but in the heat of the moment I decided to spare her. Next game will show if it was right. Btw, I really like your avatar.
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Post by izut on Apr 26, 2017 15:31:13 GMT
I gave Rana chance too, happened I was wrong. If I'm wrong this time by killing Kalinda, I'll change my choice. But I doubt they'll ever make anything good from her. Kett lady is crazy brainwashed who tried to kill us, Kalinda is an abusive bitch, a sociopath and tried to kill us as well Same thing to me Kett lady killed and will continue to do that to many people. Kalinda only tried to kill us. It's not easy decision but in the heat of the moment I decided to spare her. Next game will show if it was right. Btw, I really like your avatar. We don't know that I wouldn't be surprised if she killed many people on her way, just to get what she wanted so bad. She has tons of rem-tech stocked somewhere. As for the avatar - thank you
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 26, 2017 16:21:30 GMT
I get that Kalinda has had mercenaries try to kill Ryder and crew, but context matters to me. If Kalinda draws a gun on Ryder with the intent to kill, then sure I'd shoot her down (although preferably I'd like to shoot to incapacitate but that's never really given as an option) but when she's just hanging helpless with her back to you then the power dynamic is flipped and your actions become far more important. Anyway, I can understand why it's a choice people would make, I'm just saying that I've seen people justify acting counter to Peebee's desires as being for her benefit. That comes across as a terrifying bit of irony to me.
For that reason, I kind of feel like killing Kalinda should end the possibility of romancing Peebee in the same way shooting the Aksuul ends a romance with Jaal. That's a whole other can of worms though so I recognise it's probably not a popular opinion.
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Post by izut on Apr 26, 2017 17:30:18 GMT
I get that Kalinda has had mercenaries try to kill Ryder and crew, but context matters to me. If Kalinda draws a gun on Ryder with the intent to kill, then sure I'd shoot her down (although preferably I'd like to shoot to incapacitate but that's never really given as an option) but when she's just hanging helpless with her back to you then the power dynamic is flipped and your actions become far more important. Anyway, I can understand why it's a choice people would make, I'm just saying that I've seen people justify acting counter to Peebee's desires as being for her benefit. That comes across as a terrifying bit of irony to me. For that reason, I kind of feel like killing Kalinda should end the possibility of romancing Peebee in the same way shooting the Aksuul ends a romance with Jaal. That's a whole other can of worms though so I recognise it's probably not a popular opinion. No because those are 2 different situations. Akksul ends up as a martyr, Kalinda will simply continue her manipulative and dangerous game with us and Peebee. It doesn't matter she ends up helping us at the end of the game since she simply has a debt to pay, but next game? She'll be back to her evil doings. Killing her is freeing Peebee from her games. And just to remind you - Peebee HATES HER. She wanted to save her just in that one second and later kind of regret doing it. Just like she kind of regret her ending up dead, but only for a moment because the tech she's go is super cool and she's excited to dig into its secrets. She's free. She's finally really free.
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 26, 2017 18:12:22 GMT
I get that Kalinda has had mercenaries try to kill Ryder and crew, but context matters to me. If Kalinda draws a gun on Ryder with the intent to kill, then sure I'd shoot her down (although preferably I'd like to shoot to incapacitate but that's never really given as an option) but when she's just hanging helpless with her back to you then the power dynamic is flipped and your actions become far more important. Anyway, I can understand why it's a choice people would make, I'm just saying that I've seen people justify acting counter to Peebee's desires as being for her benefit. That comes across as a terrifying bit of irony to me. For that reason, I kind of feel like killing Kalinda should end the possibility of romancing Peebee in the same way shooting the Aksuul ends a romance with Jaal. That's a whole other can of worms though so I recognise it's probably not a popular opinion. No because those are 2 different situations. Akksul ends up as a martyr, Kalinda will simply continue her manipulative and dangerous game with us and Peebee. It doesn't matter she ends up helping us at the end of the game since she simply has a debt to pay, but next game? She'll be back to her evil doings. Killing her is freeing Peebee from her games. And just to remind you - Peebee HATES HER. She wanted to save her just in that one second and later kind of regret doing it. Just like she kind of regret her ending up dead, but only for a moment because the tech she's go is super cool and she's excited to dig into its secrets. She's free. She's finally really free. Kalinda saves your life directly after Peebee saves hers. She repays the debt immediately by flying you off planet. The fact that she returns to help in the final battle is really above and beyond what she owes you. *Shrug* I just don't see the evidence that Kalinda is particularly evil or that big of a threat to the crew, as far as I can see there's no reason to doubt her sincerity. I also don't buy that Peebee hates her either, she says it a couple of times in moments of frustration but, to me at least, it seemed obvious that neither of the them had properly processed their break-up and they both harboured affection for the other. Kalinda had ample opportunity to kill Peebee or Ryder given the things she accomplishes but she doesn't take them, presumably because that isn't what she wants. I see her actions as hurtful yes, but also playful. The sort of challenging oneup-manship that likely attracted Peebee in the first place. You say Peebee wanted to save her in just that one second, but I think that that is the most telling of seconds. When faced with an unequivocally clear choice, Remtech survives or Kalinda doesn't, she decides to abandon the Remtech that she has essentially bet her life on. I really doubt anyone would make that choice if they truly hated the other person. This is all just my interpretation after one playthrough though. Maybe subsequent runs will alter the way I see the characters.
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Post by izut on Apr 26, 2017 18:41:45 GMT
No because those are 2 different situations. Akksul ends up as a martyr, Kalinda will simply continue her manipulative and dangerous game with us and Peebee. It doesn't matter she ends up helping us at the end of the game since she simply has a debt to pay, but next game? She'll be back to her evil doings. Killing her is freeing Peebee from her games. And just to remind you - Peebee HATES HER. She wanted to save her just in that one second and later kind of regret doing it. Just like she kind of regret her ending up dead, but only for a moment because the tech she's go is super cool and she's excited to dig into its secrets. She's free. She's finally really free. Kalinda saves your life directly after Peebee saves hers. She repays the debt immediately by flying you off planet. The fact that she returns to help in the final battle is really above and beyond what she owes you. *Shrug* I just don't see the evidence that Kalinda is particularly evil or that big of a threat to the crew, as far as I can see there's no reason to doubt her sincerity. I also don't buy that Peebee hates her either, she says it a couple of times in moments of frustration but, to me at least, it seemed obvious that neither of the them had properly processed their break-up and they both harboured affection for the other. Kalinda had ample opportunity to kill Peebee or Ryder given the things she accomplishes but she doesn't take them, presumably because that isn't what she wants. I see her actions as hurtful yes, but also playful. The sort of challenging oneup-manship that likely attracted Peebee in the first place. You say Peebee wanted to save her in just that one second, but I think that that is the most telling of seconds. When faced with an unequivocally clear choice, Remtech survives or Kalinda doesn't, she decides to abandon the Remtech that she has essentially bet her life on. I really doubt anyone would make that choice if they truly hated the other person. This is all just my interpretation after one playthrough though. Maybe subsequent runs will alter the way I see the characters. No, she doesn't save our lives right after we saves hers because we can fly off that planet even if we kill her. It's not paying a debt at all. If it was, she wouldn't sent those techs to PB later on. You can't see her being a threat? Really? Ok... She broke into our ship, into PB's escape pod and stole POC. If someone would try to stop her, how do you think she'd react? Threaten or kill that person. Isn't it a threat to the crew? Because as I see it, it for sure is. Excuse me, but how isn't ordering 100 people to kill younot what she wanted and not a threat? It is a threat and it's exactly what she wanted. She was even telling her goons the one who'll kill us will get more money than she previously agreed to pay them. There's nothing playful in it. And it doesn't matter she didn't do it before or after because the only moment she wanted you dead was when you, or more specific PB, was intrested in the same thing she wanted. If this happens again, she'll do the same - order others to kill you. Have you heard of stockholm syndrome? PB acts like it in that second. She was a victim of long term manipulations, she was being used and treated like trash, then kicked out because she meant nothing to Kalinda. Victims of such people can and usually do feel compassionate towards their "captors" so no wonder PB felt like she did in that one second. I usually am all for savin other people, but not this time. Kalinda deserved to be eaten by lava, PB deserved to finally feel free from her and we all deserve to have one less devil behind our backs, not knowing when she'll hit again.
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 26, 2017 20:26:18 GMT
Kalinda saves your life directly after Peebee saves hers. She repays the debt immediately by flying you off planet. The fact that she returns to help in the final battle is really above and beyond what she owes you. *Shrug* I just don't see the evidence that Kalinda is particularly evil or that big of a threat to the crew, as far as I can see there's no reason to doubt her sincerity. I also don't buy that Peebee hates her either, she says it a couple of times in moments of frustration but, to me at least, it seemed obvious that neither of the them had properly processed their break-up and they both harboured affection for the other. Kalinda had ample opportunity to kill Peebee or Ryder given the things she accomplishes but she doesn't take them, presumably because that isn't what she wants. I see her actions as hurtful yes, but also playful. The sort of challenging oneup-manship that likely attracted Peebee in the first place. You say Peebee wanted to save her in just that one second, but I think that that is the most telling of seconds. When faced with an unequivocally clear choice, Remtech survives or Kalinda doesn't, she decides to abandon the Remtech that she has essentially bet her life on. I really doubt anyone would make that choice if they truly hated the other person. This is all just my interpretation after one playthrough though. Maybe subsequent runs will alter the way I see the characters. No, she doesn't save our lives right after we saves hers because we can fly off that planet even if we kill her. It's not paying a debt at all. If it was, she wouldn't sent those techs to PB later on. You can't see her being a threat? Really? Ok... She broke into our ship, into PB's escape pod and stole POC. If someone would try to stop her, how do you think she'd react? Threaten or kill that person. Isn't it a threat to the crew? Because as I see it, it for sure is. Excuse me, but how isn't ordering 100 people to kill younot what she wanted and not a threat? It is a threat and it's exactly what she wanted. She was even telling her goons the one who'll kill us will get more money than she previously agreed to pay them. There's nothing playful in it. And it doesn't matter she didn't do it before or after because the only moment she wanted you dead was when you, or more specific PB, was intrested in the same thing she wanted. If this happens again, she'll do the same - order others to kill you. Have you heard of stockholm syndrome? PB acts like it in that second. She was a victim of long term manipulations, she was being used and treated like trash, then kicked out because she meant nothing to Kalinda. Victims of such people can and usually do feel compassionate towards their "captors" so no wonder PB felt like she did in that one second. I usually am all for savin other people, but not this time. Kalinda deserved to be eaten by lava, PB deserved to finally feel free from her and we all deserve to have one less devil behind our backs, not knowing when she'll hit again. Do you fly off the planet in Kalinda's shuttles though? I assume so because if the Tempest is capable of picking you up after the mission then it renders all the escape pod drama pointless otherwise. If you get off the planet by some other means then mea culpa, but as the situation stands if you don't shoot Kalinda, she offers you space in her shuttle. She doesn't have to do this but she chooses to and solves your problem of having no escape route. That's saving your life. Just because you have the option to kill her and steal her stuff doesn't negate the choice she makes for you if you don't. Apologies if you meant something else by your comment. She breaks into your ship and uses the opportunity to play silly games with her ex-lover. Stealing something she always intended to return. Obviously she does these things for selfish reasons but they're hardly the actions of some super dangerous monster to be stopped at any cost. She wants the same tech as Peebee (and neither of them are really entitled to it so her tactics seem fair game) so she gets in your way, but to consider her a persistent and permanent threat in all scenarios seems like the height of paranoia to me. I know what Stockholm Syndrome is but it doesn't really support your argument, I feel. Firstly, the relationship between Peebee and Kalinda was entirely consensual. There was no massively uneven power dynamic consistent with a captor/prisoner relationship. Furthermore, the connection that victims of Stockholm Syndrome form with their captors is profound and intensely powerful, because it's a survival mechanism. It's not some fleeting trifle that the prisoner gets over five minutes later. Stockholm victims refuse to say a negative word about their captor and refuse to testify against them years after their escape. They come to think that they deserve the treatment their captor inflicted on them. All of this is to say that they certainly don't bitch about them constantly and literally punch them in the face minutes after they are freed. Perhaps I need to play the game again, but reading this thread you'd think that Kalinda was space Joseph Fritzl and Peebee was some delicate flower hopelessly trampled underfoot. That's pretty far from the impression I got though of their relationship.
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Post by izut on Apr 26, 2017 21:09:35 GMT
No, she doesn't save our lives right after we saves hers because we can fly off that planet even if we kill her. It's not paying a debt at all. If it was, she wouldn't sent those techs to PB later on. You can't see her being a threat? Really? Ok... She broke into our ship, into PB's escape pod and stole POC. If someone would try to stop her, how do you think she'd react? Threaten or kill that person. Isn't it a threat to the crew? Because as I see it, it for sure is. Excuse me, but how isn't ordering 100 people to kill younot what she wanted and not a threat? It is a threat and it's exactly what she wanted. She was even telling her goons the one who'll kill us will get more money than she previously agreed to pay them. There's nothing playful in it. And it doesn't matter she didn't do it before or after because the only moment she wanted you dead was when you, or more specific PB, was intrested in the same thing she wanted. If this happens again, she'll do the same - order others to kill you. Have you heard of stockholm syndrome? PB acts like it in that second. She was a victim of long term manipulations, she was being used and treated like trash, then kicked out because she meant nothing to Kalinda. Victims of such people can and usually do feel compassionate towards their "captors" so no wonder PB felt like she did in that one second. I usually am all for savin other people, but not this time. Kalinda deserved to be eaten by lava, PB deserved to finally feel free from her and we all deserve to have one less devil behind our backs, not knowing when she'll hit again. Do you fly off the planet in Kalinda's shuttles though? I assume so because if the Tempest is capable of picking you up after the mission then it renders all the escape pod drama pointless otherwise. If you get off the planet by some other means then mea culpa, but as the situation stands if you don't shoot Kalinda, she offers you space in her shuttle. She doesn't have to do this but she chooses to and solves your problem of having no escape route. That's saving your life. Just because you have the option to kill her and steal her stuff doesn't negate the choice she makes for you if you don't. Apologies if you meant something else by your comment. She breaks into your ship and uses the opportunity to play silly games with her ex-lover. Stealing something she always intended to return. Obviously she does these things for selfish reasons but they're hardly the actions of some super dangerous monster to be stopped at any cost. She wants the same tech as Peebee (and neither of them are really entitled to it so her tactics seem fair game) so she gets in your way, but to consider her a persistent and permanent threat in all scenarios seems like the height of paranoia to me. I know what Stockholm Syndrome is but it doesn't really support your argument, I feel. Firstly, the relationship between Peebee and Kalinda was entirely consensual. There was no massively uneven power dynamic consistent with a captor/prisoner relationship. Furthermore, the connection that victims of Stockholm Syndrome form with their captors is profound and intensely powerful, because it's a survival mechanism. It's not some fleeting trifle that the prisoner gets over five minutes later. Stockholm victims refuse to say a negative word about their captor and refuse to testify against them years after their escape. They come to think that they deserve the treatment their captor inflicted on them. All of this is to say that they certainly don't bitch about them constantly and literally punch them in the face minutes after they are freed. Perhaps I need to play the game again, but reading this thread you'd think that Kalinda was space Joseph Fritzl and Peebee was some delicate flower hopelessly trampled underfoot. That's pretty far from the impression I got though of their relationship. She could say no and eat the bullet. She's not paying a debt in that moment. She would be stupid if she tried to leave us, she was outnumbered. Also, it's not stealing if you kill her. Breaking into MY ship, stealing something that belongs to one of MY crew, breaking it up because it wasn't useful to her (she never intended to return it, she simply didn't find it useful so she left it, broken, like she left PB when she stopped being useful to her, also broken), but meant something to PB (she knew that so she chose to hurt PB's feelings again). It's not a silly game. It's disgusting and dangerous to my people because she proved she's ready to kill if someone prevents or rivals her from getting what she want. So I'm paranoid for seeing her as a threat even tho she just tried to kill me by sending plenty of her goons on me... ok... I guess they had water guns and I just imagined them shooting at me with real bullets... Kalinda's orders and disgusting comments were probably my imagination too. PB loved Kalinda. Really loved her. If she didn't, it wouldn't hurt her so much that she was treated like a trash. Ask her about Kalinda and you'll hear she's manipulative and the way PB describes her, you can understand she was abusive too. She used PB's feelings, she played an ugly game with her, knowing about PB's feelings and didn't give a damn about it. PB end up with heavy trust issues, broken and in pain. If you take PB and Jaal to Nomad, there'll be a conversation between them about Jaal seeing PB packing and unpacking over and over again. Connect the dots of what she told you and will tell later on and you'll see she was afraid of getting involved and attached to you and Tempest crew. She was afraid of getting hurt and she's afraid of hurting other people too. Hell, she made POC as a friend for herself because she could turn it off without hurting its feelings. Looks like you should play this game again. I wonder how stats looks like about her fate. Here and on other forums it looks like most of players see her as a threat for the future so they kill her.
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 26, 2017 21:52:46 GMT
Do you fly off the planet in Kalinda's shuttles though? I assume so because if the Tempest is capable of picking you up after the mission then it renders all the escape pod drama pointless otherwise. If you get off the planet by some other means then mea culpa, but as the situation stands if you don't shoot Kalinda, she offers you space in her shuttle. She doesn't have to do this but she chooses to and solves your problem of having no escape route. That's saving your life. Just because you have the option to kill her and steal her stuff doesn't negate the choice she makes for you if you don't. Apologies if you meant something else by your comment. She breaks into your ship and uses the opportunity to play silly games with her ex-lover. Stealing something she always intended to return. Obviously she does these things for selfish reasons but they're hardly the actions of some super dangerous monster to be stopped at any cost. She wants the same tech as Peebee (and neither of them are really entitled to it so her tactics seem fair game) so she gets in your way, but to consider her a persistent and permanent threat in all scenarios seems like the height of paranoia to me. I know what Stockholm Syndrome is but it doesn't really support your argument, I feel. Firstly, the relationship between Peebee and Kalinda was entirely consensual. There was no massively uneven power dynamic consistent with a captor/prisoner relationship. Furthermore, the connection that victims of Stockholm Syndrome form with their captors is profound and intensely powerful, because it's a survival mechanism. It's not some fleeting trifle that the prisoner gets over five minutes later. Stockholm victims refuse to say a negative word about their captor and refuse to testify against them years after their escape. They come to think that they deserve the treatment their captor inflicted on them. All of this is to say that they certainly don't bitch about them constantly and literally punch them in the face minutes after they are freed. Perhaps I need to play the game again, but reading this thread you'd think that Kalinda was space Joseph Fritzl and Peebee was some delicate flower hopelessly trampled underfoot. That's pretty far from the impression I got though of their relationship. She could say no and eat the bullet. She's not paying a debt in that moment. She would be stupid if she tried to leave us, she was outnumbered. Also, it's not stealing if you kill her. Breaking into MY ship, stealing something that belongs to one of MY crew, breaking it up because it wasn't useful to her (she never intended to return it, she simply didn't find it useful so she left it, broken, like she left PB when she stopped being useful to her, also broken), but meant something to PB (she knew that so she chose to hurt PB's feelings again). It's not a silly game. It's disgusting and dangerous to my people because she proved she's ready to kill if someone prevents or rivals her from getting what she want. So I'm paranoid for seeing her as a threat even tho she just tried to kill me by sending plenty of her goons on me... ok... I guess they had water guns and I just imagined them shooting at me with real bullets... Kalinda's orders and disgusting comments were probably my imagination too. PB loved Kalinda. Really loved her. If she didn't, it wouldn't hurt her so much that she was treated like a trash. Ask her about Kalinda and you'll hear she's manipulative and the way PB describes her, you can understand she was abusive too. She used PB's feelings, she played an ugly game with her, knowing about PB's feelings and didn't give a damn about it. PB end up with heavy trust issues, broken and in pain. If you take PB and Jaal to Nomad, there'll be a conversation between them about Jaal seeing PB packing and unpacking over and over again. Connect the dots of what she told you and will tell later on and you'll see she was afraid of getting involved and attached to you and Tempest crew. She was afraid of getting hurt and she's afraid of hurting other people too. Hell, she made POC as a friend for herself because she could turn it off without hurting its feelings. Looks like you should play this game again. I wonder how stats looks like about her fate. Here and on other forums it looks like most of players see her as a threat for the future so they kill her. So Kalinda doesn't save you, in your mind, because you could have killed her and taken her stuff instead? I'm sorry but that's utter madness. If I choose to give you £10 you don't get to say 'well, if I killed you, I could steal all your money so actually you gave me nothing!" It's complete nonsense. Furthermore, if Kalinda was the diabolical bitch queen you paint her as, why would she even show up against the Archon? The 'debt' she owes only applies if you're applying a moral attitude to her that you're immediately disregarding by assuming she would try to kill you after having risked her life to save you. I understand Peebee's character. She was hurt because she opened up to someone and the relationship turned sour somehow. I love her as much as anyone else here, but, boohoo. Sometimes relationships fail. Sometimes you put yourself out there and the other person doesn't reciprocate. It hurts, but it doesn't equal emotional abuse. Peebee was lost after her break-up, to avoid the pain she decided to take a laissez faire attitude to everything, including you and the Tempest crew. Unless there's some straight up abusive content I'm completely forgetting like Kalinda gaslighting Peebee or physically abusing her then I just don't see a messy break up as a horrible crime. Peebee's inability to deal with rejection shouldn't be considered a sign of deeper trauma, in my opinion. Edit: Doesn't she place a tracking device inside POC for the explicit purpose of being able to follow Peebee to whether she thinks the Remtech is? Given that she placed the tracker there, it seems fair to me that she was always planning to have POC return to Peebee. It comes across as a part of a game to be played with Peebee.
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Post by izut on Apr 26, 2017 22:14:38 GMT
She could say no and eat the bullet. She's not paying a debt in that moment. She would be stupid if she tried to leave us, she was outnumbered. Also, it's not stealing if you kill her. Breaking into MY ship, stealing something that belongs to one of MY crew, breaking it up because it wasn't useful to her (she never intended to return it, she simply didn't find it useful so she left it, broken, like she left PB when she stopped being useful to her, also broken), but meant something to PB (she knew that so she chose to hurt PB's feelings again). It's not a silly game. It's disgusting and dangerous to my people because she proved she's ready to kill if someone prevents or rivals her from getting what she want. So I'm paranoid for seeing her as a threat even tho she just tried to kill me by sending plenty of her goons on me... ok... I guess they had water guns and I just imagined them shooting at me with real bullets... Kalinda's orders and disgusting comments were probably my imagination too. PB loved Kalinda. Really loved her. If she didn't, it wouldn't hurt her so much that she was treated like a trash. Ask her about Kalinda and you'll hear she's manipulative and the way PB describes her, you can understand she was abusive too. She used PB's feelings, she played an ugly game with her, knowing about PB's feelings and didn't give a damn about it. PB end up with heavy trust issues, broken and in pain. If you take PB and Jaal to Nomad, there'll be a conversation between them about Jaal seeing PB packing and unpacking over and over again. Connect the dots of what she told you and will tell later on and you'll see she was afraid of getting involved and attached to you and Tempest crew. She was afraid of getting hurt and she's afraid of hurting other people too. Hell, she made POC as a friend for herself because she could turn it off without hurting its feelings. Looks like you should play this game again. I wonder how stats looks like about her fate. Here and on other forums it looks like most of players see her as a threat for the future so they kill her. So Kalinda doesn't save you, in your mind, because you could have killed her and taken her stuff instead? I'm sorry but that's utter madness. If I choose to give you £10 you don't get to say 'well, if I killed you, I could steal all your money so actually you gave me nothing!" It's complete nonsense. Furthermore, if Kalinda was the diabolical bitch queen you paint her as, why would she even show up against the Archon? The 'debt' she owes only applies if you're applying a moral attitude to her that you're immediately disregarding by assuming she would try to kill you after having risked her life to save you. I understand Peebee's character. She was hurt because she opened up to someone and the relationship turned sour somehow. I love her as much as anyone else here, but, boohoo. Sometimes relationships fail. Sometimes you put yourself out there and the other person doesn't reciprocate. It hurts, but it doesn't equal emotional abuse. Peebee was lost after her break-up, to avoid the pain she decided to take a laissez faire attitude to everything, including you and the Tempest crew. Unless there's some straight up abusive content I'm completely forgetting like Kalinda gaslighting Peebee or physically abusing her then I just don't see a messy break up as a horrible crime. Peebee's inability to deal with rejection shouldn't be considered a sign of deeper trauma, in my opinion. No, she's not saving our ass bu letting us into her shuttle after we save her no matter how you want to look at it. If she didn't, she'd had to die because she'd prove right in that moment we made a mistake by saving her. I meant it's not stealing if you shoot her in the first place. She shows up at the end because: 1) she has a debt to pay 2) kett are a danger to her too so it partially was a selfish reason, especially after we killed all of her goons and she's all alone until she hires new ones and she can talk about it later on, how she took a part of saving the world... to manipulate other people or make exiles to follow her 3) it can be used in another game to make her try and manipulate us, most likely by using PB again Looks like you don't understant PB's character at all if you say her relationship failed. It wasn't a fail. This relationship existed as long as PB was useful to Kalinda. The moment it stopped, Kalinda kicked her out. It IS emotional abuse - using someone's feelings to get shit done. It wasn't a break up. It's wasn't rejection. It was "bye, trash, I don't need you anymore, you did what I wanted/needed, now get lost". If you see it as a simple break up and failed relationship than I can't find words to comment it. I even wonder if she wasn't used for sex during that time either because it's clear she loved Kalinda deeply and yet, she never love-melded, which is strange, especially between 2 Asari.
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 26, 2017 23:02:56 GMT
So Kalinda doesn't save you, in your mind, because you could have killed her and taken her stuff instead? I'm sorry but that's utter madness. If I choose to give you £10 you don't get to say 'well, if I killed you, I could steal all your money so actually you gave me nothing!" It's complete nonsense. Furthermore, if Kalinda was the diabolical bitch queen you paint her as, why would she even show up against the Archon? The 'debt' she owes only applies if you're applying a moral attitude to her that you're immediately disregarding by assuming she would try to kill you after having risked her life to save you. I understand Peebee's character. She was hurt because she opened up to someone and the relationship turned sour somehow. I love her as much as anyone else here, but, boohoo. Sometimes relationships fail. Sometimes you put yourself out there and the other person doesn't reciprocate. It hurts, but it doesn't equal emotional abuse. Peebee was lost after her break-up, to avoid the pain she decided to take a laissez faire attitude to everything, including you and the Tempest crew. Unless there's some straight up abusive content I'm completely forgetting like Kalinda gaslighting Peebee or physically abusing her then I just don't see a messy break up as a horrible crime. Peebee's inability to deal with rejection shouldn't be considered a sign of deeper trauma, in my opinion. No, she's not saving our ass bu letting us into her shuttle after we save her no matter how you want to look at it. If she didn't, she'd had to die because she'd prove right in that moment we made a mistake by saving her. I meant it's not stealing if you shoot her in the first place. She shows up at the end because: 1) she has a debt to pay 2) kett are a danger to her too so it partially was a selfish reason, especially after we killed all of her goons and she's all alone until she hires new ones and she can talk about it later on, how she took a part of saving the world... to manipulate other people or make exiles to follow her 3) it can be used in another game to make her try and manipulate us, most likely by using PB again Looks like you don't understant PB's character at all if you say her relationship failed. It wasn't a fail. This relationship existed as long as PB was useful to Kalinda. The moment it stopped, Kalinda kicked her out. It IS emotional abuse - using someone's feelings to get shit done. It wasn't a break up. It's wasn't rejection. It was "bye, trash, I don't need you anymore, you did what I wanted/needed, now get lost". If you see it as a simple break up and failed relationship than I can't find words to comment it. I even wonder if she wasn't used for sex during that time either because it's clear she loved Kalinda deeply and yet, she never love-melded, which is strange, especially between 2 Asari. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand your moral decisions. Peebee is the one who essentially leaves you to die on that planet. Kalinda is the one who gives you an escape route. How many times does she have to save your life by providing an option you didn't have before before she is 'absolved' of her duty? Again, if Kalinda didn't give a single flying fuck about what she owed Ryder and Peebee she would never risk her life by fighting the Archon's forces. What was Ryder going to do? Completely ignore the Archon and spend her last remaining hours tracking down Kalinda and giving her what for while the Archon murdered every colony you'd established? I wish relationships only ever ended when both parties simultaneously decided that they were not compatible, but that's just not what happens. People get into relationships and they fail because something doesn't work for someone anymore. That can really hurt if you're into the relationship, but it's not a crime. Kalinda didn't manipulate Peebeee for political purposes or for economic reasons, she just broke up with her. Maybe I'm forgetting something truly appalling, but there was nothing that screamed emotional battery in the content I experienced.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 26, 2017 23:52:13 GMT
She could say no and eat the bullet. She's not paying a debt in that moment. She would be stupid if she tried to leave us, she was outnumbered. Also, it's not stealing if you kill her.Um, yes it is. In every sense of the word it is. If a robber kills someone on the street and then takes their car, they still stole the car despite the owner being dead.
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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 0:03:28 GMT
No, she's not saving our ass bu letting us into her shuttle after we save her no matter how you want to look at it. If she didn't, she'd had to die because she'd prove right in that moment we made a mistake by saving her. I meant it's not stealing if you shoot her in the first place. She shows up at the end because: 1) she has a debt to pay 2) kett are a danger to her too so it partially was a selfish reason, especially after we killed all of her goons and she's all alone until she hires new ones and she can talk about it later on, how she took a part of saving the world... to manipulate other people or make exiles to follow her 3) it can be used in another game to make her try and manipulate us, most likely by using PB again Looks like you don't understant PB's character at all if you say her relationship failed. It wasn't a fail. This relationship existed as long as PB was useful to Kalinda. The moment it stopped, Kalinda kicked her out. It IS emotional abuse - using someone's feelings to get shit done. It wasn't a break up. It's wasn't rejection. It was "bye, trash, I don't need you anymore, you did what I wanted/needed, now get lost". If you see it as a simple break up and failed relationship than I can't find words to comment it. I even wonder if she wasn't used for sex during that time either because it's clear she loved Kalinda deeply and yet, she never love-melded, which is strange, especially between 2 Asari. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand your moral decisions. Peebee is the one who essentially leaves you to die on that planet. Kalinda is the one who gives you an escape route. How many times does she have to save your life by providing an option you didn't have before before she is 'absolved' of her duty? Again, if Kalinda didn't give a single flying fuck about what she owed Ryder and Peebee she would never risk her life by fighting the Archon's forces. What was Ryder going to do? Completely ignore the Archon and spend her last remaining hours tracking down Kalinda and giving her what for while the Archon murdered every colony you'd established? I wish relationships only ever ended when both parties simultaneously decided that they were not compatible, but that's just not what happens. People get into relationships and they fail because something doesn't work for someone anymore. That can really hurt if you're into the relationship, but it's not a crime. Kalinda didn't manipulate Peebeee for political purposes or for economic reasons, she just broke up with her. Maybe I'm forgetting something truly appalling, but there was nothing that screamed emotional battery in the content I experienced. Please, play the game again and talk to PB about Kalinda through the entire game. You'll learn PB felt like a yo-yo, until Kalinda kicked her for good. She made her feel special but not for long. And PB believed and forgave her, every single time she came back apologizing and promising to be better just to end up kicking her out again, more and more cruel each time. We don't know what exactly happened between them, but one thing is for sure - Kalinda was constantly using PB's feelings and good heart. Over and over again. Hurting her over and over again too.
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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 0:06:25 GMT
She could say no and eat the bullet. She's not paying a debt in that moment. She would be stupid if she tried to leave us, she was outnumbered. Also, it's not stealing if you kill her.Um, yes it is. In every sense of the word it is. If a robber kills someone on the street and then takes their car, they still stole the car despite the owner being dead. Ok, lets call it stealing from a thief, because nothing was really hers in the first place anyway
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 27, 2017 0:07:37 GMT
Um, yes it is. In every sense of the word it is. If a robber kills someone on the street and then takes their car, they still stole the car despite the owner being dead. Ok, lets call it stealing from a thief, because nothing was really hers in the first place anyway You don't know that. She could have bought or acquired those through legal means. Regardless, stealing from a thief is still stealing.
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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 0:10:29 GMT
Ok, lets call it stealing from a thief, because nothing was really hers in the first place anyway You don't know that. She could have bought or acquired those through legal means. Regardless, stealing from a thief is still stealing. We're talking about a person who lived a double life and no one knew about it. She's an outlaw, a self exile. They don't buy things the legal way.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 27, 2017 0:15:30 GMT
You don't know that. She could have bought or acquired those through legal means. Regardless, stealing from a thief is still stealing. We're talking about a person who lived a double life and no one knew about it. She's an outlaw, a self exile. They don't buy things the legal way. Do you have proof that they were acquired illegally? And no, her being a merc doesn't prove that since history and the games have plenty of examples of mercs operating through legal channels. Even the full blown Exiles still buy some things rather than stealing everything. And again, it doesn't matter either way since stealing from someone who steals is still stealing.
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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 0:41:35 GMT
We're talking about a person who lived a double life and no one knew about it. She's an outlaw, a self exile. They don't buy things the legal way. Do you have proof that they were acquired illegally? And no, her being a merc doesn't prove that since history and the games have plenty of examples of mercs operating through legal channels. Even the full blown Exiles still buy some things rather than stealing everything. And again, it doesn't matter either way since stealing from someone who steals is still stealing. I don't think it can work like this in a completely new and fresh world, at least not yet. Especially when we've seen how many things outlaws steal from Nexus and Angara, even if they sell them later on. And um, she kind of started a war with us. But ok, let's agree it's stealing.
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