Cyberzombie
N3
Reborn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: GrantMPCredits
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 1,000,000
Posts: 277 Likes: 576
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chesseffect
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Cyberzombie on Nov 26, 2016 3:40:41 GMT
As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I'm the first to say that devs should stand by their vision of their own game, they know better than anyone else what it is and should be. Capitulating to some of the hair-brained stupid ideas some people have to "improve" the game has ruined too many to count in my lifetime. On the other hand, devs need to be open to true, well thought out suggestions by people who actually know wtf they are talking about. The trick is to identify who is who. But you need forums and community reps to do that. Take those out of the equation and you eliminate the potential for constructive feedback which could have possibly made things better for everyone.
Yeah I have seen games go down the toilet because the devs listened to a vocal minority. It is perhaps challenging to identify who is who, although frankly it would be enough for devs themselves to actually think about what they are making. Currently I don't think enough time is spent thinking about what they are doing. Like with Prestige, someone somewhere things 'yeah, people are gonna LOVE this, they can promote their characters and get moar powah'. But no one actually stopped for 2 second to think 'hang on...this would make it impossible to balance the difficulty'.
Perhaps it's just a minority who want a balanced game though.
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Salarian Master Pimp
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Post by SalMasRac on Nov 26, 2016 5:34:56 GMT
As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I'm the first to say that devs should stand by their vision of their own game, they know better than anyone else what it is and should be. Capitulating to some of the hair-brained stupid ideas some people have to "improve" the game has ruined too many to count in my lifetime. On the other hand, devs need to be open to true, well thought out suggestions by people who actually know wtf they are talking about. The trick is to identify who is who. But you need forums and community reps to do that. Take those out of the equation and you eliminate the potential for constructive feedback which could have possibly made things better for everyone.
Yeah I have seen games go down the toilet because the devs listened to a vocal minority. It is perhaps challenging to identify who is who, although frankly it would be enough for devs themselves to actually think about what they are making. Currently I don't think enough time is spent thinking about what they are doing. Like with Prestige, someone somewhere things 'yeah, people are gonna LOVE this, they can promote their characters and get moar powah'. But no one actually stopped for 2 second to think 'hang on...this would make it impossible to balance the difficulty'.
Perhaps it's just a minority who want a balanced game though.
Decisions like that are probably made by people who don't even play games, thus have no idea how it would affect them. Some gamers genuinely ARE excited for it, and they are either 1-Morons, or 2-the dozen or so DAIMP players who topped the Leaderboards, and EA says "hey these guys were top of the Leaderboards, let's see what they think!". Well I guess we also have to account for 3-EA Morons also. The devs actually making the game cannot really fail to grasp the impact of such a Prestige System. Then again, this is 4-Bioware Morons we're talking about. But when you get down to it, this Prestige System caters to casuals, and more casuals = more money, because that's such a large portion of the playerbase these days. With all of our advances in computers and technology, the people using them are getting dumber. Catering to dumb people is a shrewd business decision.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 26, 2016 7:56:40 GMT
If you don't see many facts in that argument well I'm not sure what to tell you, the damn ending was modified on ME3 because of fan opinion. Let's not rerun the endings debate, I see few facts there either. We're discussing the multiplayer in this thread
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bullwinkl3
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BullWinkl3
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Post by bullwinkl3 on Nov 28, 2016 3:42:43 GMT
Will there be a female Quarian as a MP character?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 14:58:06 GMT
As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I'm the first to say that devs should stand by their vision of their own game, they know better than anyone else what it is and should be. Capitulating to some of the hair-brained stupid ideas some people have to "improve" the game has ruined too many to count in my lifetime. On the other hand, devs need to be open to true, well thought out suggestions by people who actually know wtf they are talking about. The trick is to identify who is who. But you need forums and community reps to do that. Take those out of the equation and you eliminate the potential for constructive feedback which could have possibly made things better for everyone.
Yeah I have seen games go down the toilet because the devs listened to a vocal minority. It is perhaps challenging to identify who is who, although frankly it would be enough for devs themselves to actually think about what they are making. Currently I don't think enough time is spent thinking about what they are doing. Like with Prestige, someone somewhere things 'yeah, people are gonna LOVE this, they can promote their characters and get moar powah'. But no one actually stopped for 2 second to think 'hang on...this would make it impossible to balance the difficulty'.
Perhaps it's just a minority who want a balanced game though.
I might be mistaken, but I think the promotion system is in response to more of an industry at large trend, rather than specific to the ME audience. From my short brash-up with the gaming outside BioWARE, the gaming companies cash in on the games by willingly creating a power gap between the BiS characters and the start-out characters in the modes that give a clear feedback on performance. Then, this gap can be closed by an unreasonable time-investment, than can be shortened by either the overall gaming skill (including the networking) or paying.
From what I see this model actually holds more appeal in general than the model where everyone gets nearly the same "stuff", or at least it has an appeal to a certain category of consummate gamers. I am not really sure they are a minority. I often feel they actually are the majority, and a vocal one at that.
It seems that SWTOR just got put on the grind rails after its generous democratic period, and I am guessing that Andromeda is going to be like that after the ME3MP.
As long as it is not so impossibly hard that it is basically feels hopeless appealing to the competitiveness of human nature and desire for acquisition, is not a bad thing. I am curious to see if the BioEA manages to hit the sweet spot and handle the player stratification well. I have never seen it to work well yet, but my experience is very limited.
It's hard to balance player retention vs. player recruitment.
If I were to ask anything more in this respect (I have no access to Twitter, so I am not sure if there is an alternative way to communicate the questions to the team), it would be how they are planning to approach the new player recruitment and what mechanisms they have in place for a new player that is way behind the promotion spiral. Do they have any mechanisms in place that have DR on playing prolonged periods of time on a daily basis or plateau promotions? The catch-up XP and credits gains for those people who do not play every day or play short daily sessions ( hours)? Do they plan to keep increasing XP/credits gains as the game matures on the entry-levels? Do they have mechanisms to foster mentorship, cooperation and goodwill to newbs, such as bonuses for the high level players to mentor and take the new players through the low tier games? if they are putting the grind in, I would prefer them to take player stratification seriously, and address it from the get go.
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Post by Nightman on Nov 28, 2016 16:12:40 GMT
I want to know what are our new biotics and exactly how many total new weapons will we get....also, The pre-order bonus for the deluxe editions says you get a 20 week multiplayer booster pack.....what is that?
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Post by anzer on Nov 28, 2016 17:28:13 GMT
I want to know what are our new biotics and exactly how many total new weapons will we get....also, The pre-order bonus for the deluxe editions says you get a 20 week multiplayer booster pack.....what is that? From what it sounds like, it will be a free once-per-week Spectre Pack equivalent (or Premium Spectre Pack, whatever).
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Cyberzombie
N3
Reborn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: GrantMPCredits
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 1,000,000
Posts: 277 Likes: 576
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0
576
Cyberzombie
Reborn
277
August 2016
chesseffect
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
GrantMPCredits
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1,000,000
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Post by Cyberzombie on Nov 28, 2016 23:24:19 GMT
Yeah I have seen games go down the toilet because the devs listened to a vocal minority. It is perhaps challenging to identify who is who, although frankly it would be enough for devs themselves to actually think about what they are making. Currently I don't think enough time is spent thinking about what they are doing. Like with Prestige, someone somewhere things 'yeah, people are gonna LOVE this, they can promote their characters and get moar powah'. But no one actually stopped for 2 second to think 'hang on...this would make it impossible to balance the difficulty'.
Perhaps it's just a minority who want a balanced game though.
I might be mistaken, but I think the promotion system is in response to more of an industry at large trend, rather than specific to the ME audience. From my short brash-up with the gaming outside BioWARE, the gaming companies cash in on the games by willingly creating a power gap between the BiS characters and the start-out characters in the modes that give a clear feedback on performance. Then, this gap can be closed by an unreasonable time-investment, than can be shortened by either the overall gaming skill (including the networking) or paying.
From what I see this model actually holds more appeal in general than the model where everyone gets nearly the same "stuff", or at least it has an appeal to a certain category of consummate gamers. I am not really sure they are a minority. I often feel they actually are the majority, and a vocal one at that.
It seems that SWTOR just got put on the grind rails after its generous democratic period, and I am guessing that Andromeda is going to be like that after the ME3MP.
As long as it is not so impossibly hard that it is basically feels hopeless appealing to the competitiveness of human nature and desire for acquisition, is not a bad thing. I am curious to see if the BioEA manages to hit the sweet spot and handle the player stratification well. I have never seen it to work well yet, but my experience is very limited.
It's hard to balance player retention vs. player recruitment.
If I were to ask anything more in this respect (I have no access to Twitter, so I am not sure if there is an alternative way to communicate the questions to the team), it would be how they are planning to approach the new player recruitment and what mechanisms they have in place for a new player that is way behind the promotion spiral. Do they have any mechanisms in place that have DR on playing prolonged periods of time on a daily basis or plateau promotions? The catch-up XP and credits gains for those people who do not play every day or play short daily sessions ( hours)? Do they plan to keep increasing XP/credits gains as the game matures on the entry-levels? Do they have mechanisms to foster mentorship, cooperation and goodwill to newbs, such as bonuses for the high level players to mentor and take the new players through the low tier games? if they are putting the grind in, I would prefer them to take player stratification seriously, and address it from the get go.
I agree that this kind of model may actually be appealing to a majority, certainly if we give credit to EA for one thing, it's making money. It is personally displeasing though. I also draw parallels between SWTOR and this, tomorrow SWTOR is introducing a lengthy grind model with cash shop items to decrease the grind. The feedback there is that the vast majority of long term players are very unhappy, however that doesn't mean there aren't more numerous new players who are happy. There's a lot of content in SWTOR for new players, but literally no new content for old ones, it makes sense in a way to focus on getting new players to sub for 6 months or so then move on than try to keep old players happy. IF they were to have diminishing returns in the Prestige system it COULD be palatable. I still don't think it's necessary at all but if I am the minority gamer then at least with diminishing returns new players can start to catch up to veterans and promotion lords won't become completely immortal. It sounds like it's designed so that you will get more XP and credits for playing on harder difficulty settings though, so there's already an issue there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 14:58:42 GMT
I did not mean that the higher difficulties/challenges do not provide higher rewards, but that it scales down as the person plays each day during that day. In other words, you get full XP/credits during the first 2 hours, then you get less (or none) every hour thereafter.
I have seen this system in Revelation On-line as well as the other measures they put in to keep the player stratification under control, but still praying at the altar of progression and RNG for retention purposes.
To me, again, the key is that the progression is done subtly, and that the attention is paid not only to retention but to recruitment, and that the rewards are highest for cooperation rather than self-gratification at the expense of the less proficient players. In other words, the game is set up to reward a community-minded, altruistic mindset.
Because, the alternative is that a month down the road, newbs and scrubs will be solo-grinding to catch up in gear and levels to the populated tiers. Which defeats the purpose of co-op experience.
Theoretically, this paradox is fairly easy to comprehend, but so far as much as Revelation sucked, it was the only game that I saw trying to offer comprehensive solutions.
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Cyberzombie
N3
Reborn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: GrantMPCredits
Prime Posts: 1
Prime Likes: 1,000,000
Posts: 277 Likes: 576
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0
576
Cyberzombie
Reborn
277
August 2016
chesseffect
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Cyberzombie on Nov 29, 2016 17:16:32 GMT
It sounds like it would be easier not to have a Prestige system at all tbh.
I don't think the devs are capable of implementing something to address these high-level concepts.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 17:35:13 GMT
It sounds like it would be easier not to have a Prestige system at all tbh. I don't think the devs are capable of implementing something to address these high-level concepts. I don't know. But I will play and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Nov 29, 2016 19:42:41 GMT
As long as I can play asari, krogan, and turians, I'll be happy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 20:56:48 GMT
As long as I can play asari, krogan, and turians, I'll be happy. But not Salarians?
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Heroicmass
N3
XBL Gamertag: HeroicMass
Prime Posts: Not sure
Prime Likes: ALL OF THEM
Posts: 599 Likes: 2,866
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Post by Heroicmass on Nov 29, 2016 21:22:08 GMT
Will the Eagle be returning for MP?
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Nov 30, 2016 1:03:09 GMT
As long as I can play asari, krogan, and turians, I'll be happy. But not Salarians? Who???
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Salarian Master Pimp
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Post by SalMasRac on Nov 30, 2016 1:38:43 GMT
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Post by Cirvante on Nov 30, 2016 1:40:12 GMT
It was a delicacy back in the Empire.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Nov 30, 2016 1:42:38 GMT
Fun fact: Vorcha ate all the salarians but then died from frog poisoning.
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Post by Cirvante on Nov 30, 2016 2:13:42 GMT
Fun fact: Vorcha ate all the salarians but then died from frog poisoning. There's no such thing as frog poisoning, you just become french if you eat too many.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Nov 30, 2016 19:11:23 GMT
Fun fact: Vorcha ate all the salarians but then died from frog poisoning. There's no such thing as frog poisoning, you just become french if you eat too many. Sounds worse
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Post by Pearl on Dec 1, 2016 17:07:39 GMT
Will the Eagle be returning for MP? Yes, but it will somehow be even worse this time around, and won't get buffed.
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SaikyoMcRyu
N3
Servant
Protected By Fabrication Rights Management (FRM)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Saikyo_McRyu
Prime Posts: 467
Prime Likes: 1049
Posts: 589 Likes: 2,187
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Post by SaikyoMcRyu on Dec 19, 2016 12:12:06 GMT
Has anyone seen system requirements discussed yet?
Would like to know how much PC MASTER RACE I have to buy. Don't think this creaky old ALIENSware 17 is gonna handle ME:A
I'd buy a new console but I already have plenty of them - just need ME:A on N64.
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Post by goishen on Dec 21, 2016 6:51:04 GMT
But that's making the assumption that all casuals == dumb. That's just not the case.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 21, 2016 11:35:59 GMT
Yay, Fernando says he'll pop his head in... Please tag me if the OP needs updating or adding to, thanks
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Post by Vortex13 on Dec 21, 2016 14:11:51 GMT
I hope that BioWare will continue to explore new gameplay mechanics and give us "non-standard" character kits to use in the multiplayer.
I mean the Volus kits in MEMP were a good start, trying to introduce a purely support/buff archetype to the gameplay. And in DAMP, despite its short comings, gave us the Virtuoso with a completely brand new mechanic in the form of his "songs". For ME:A, BioWare needs to take it a step farther.
I am still holding out for my wish of a playable Rachni or Elcor to come true.
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