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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2017 19:01:05 GMT
It makes it easier
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 13, 2017 19:15:15 GMT
Could you show me the math on that? I'd do it myself but it sounds like you already did it.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2017 19:23:05 GMT
Go ahead and do it yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 19:49:16 GMT
Of the 7, the 4 weakest, Kasumi, Tali, Mordin and Jack, need to be loyal for everyone to survive. The reason why those 4 need to be loyal, is that they require 2 points to survive holding the line instead of 1. One has to be Miranda/Garrus/Jacob for fire team leader. The other 2 can be whoever. Wait a second. Why can't you get some of the weaker squadmates through without loyalty by having a higher-point squadmate like Garrus also holding the line? I think you're correct. You actually need 3 out of the 4 weakest loyal and all 3 of the strongest loyal, leaving 1 of the middle group to be loyal. You also have to send one of loyal weakest back with the crew and take the other two weakest loyal squad mates with you. For example: Loyal: Mordin, Tali and Jack (1 point each); Jacob (2 points); and Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed (4 points each) Disloyal: Kasumi (0 points); Miranda, Samara/Morinth, Thane, and Legion (1 point each) Tali does vents and Jack does barriers, Mordin goes back with crew, Jacob or Garrus does 2nd fire team, final squad is Tali and Jack; leaving the following to hold the line: Grunt, Zaeed, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Samara, Thane, Legion, and Kasumi = Total is 18 points/9 people = 2.0 average (all survive) You can substitute Kasumi or Legion for Tali, or Samara/Morinth for Jack but that's about the range of your flexibility on this if you're going to save all 12 with just 7 loyal squad mates |
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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2017 19:56:09 GMT
I think you're correct. You actually need 3 out of the 4 weakest loyal and all 3 of the strongest loyal, leaving 1 of the middle group to be loyal. You also have to send one of loyal weakest back with the crew and take the other two weakest loyal squad mates with you. For example: Loyal: Mordin, Tali and Jack (1 point each); Jacob (2 points); and Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed (4 points each) Disloyal: Kasumi (0 points); Miranda, Samara, Thane, and Legion (1 point each) Tali does vents and Jack does barriers, Mordin goes back with crew, Jacob or Garrus does 2nd fire team, final squad is Tali and Jack; leaving the following to hold the line: Grunt, Zaeed, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Samara, Thane, Legion, and Kasumi = Total is 18 points/9 people = 2.0 average (all survive) Yep. |
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 13, 2017 21:24:42 GMT
I plan on doing an abysmal ME2 run so I can have a terrible import for ME3. No loyalty missions at all and the bare minimum of 2 survivors... probably Garrus and Zaeed. Hmmm, or maybe Garrus and Miranda so I can watch her die on Horizon!  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 21:28:46 GMT
I think you're correct. You actually need 3 out of the 4 weakest loyal and all 3 of the strongest loyal, leaving 1 of the middle group to be loyal. You also have to send one of loyal weakest back with the crew and take the other two weakest loyal squad mates with you. For example: Loyal: Mordin, Tali and Jack (1 point each); Jacob (2 points); and Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed (4 points each) Disloyal: Kasumi (0 points); Miranda, Samara, Thane, and Legion (1 point each) Tali does vents and Jack does barriers, Mordin goes back with crew, Jacob or Garrus does 2nd fire team, final squad is Tali and Jack; leaving the following to hold the line: Grunt, Zaeed, Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Samara, Thane, Legion, and Kasumi = Total is 18 points/9 people = 2.0 average (all survive) Yep. Here's a question on the other side of that coin I've been fiddling with... What is the maximum number of loyalty missions one can still do and still have Shepard die in the end? Which squad mates would have to disloyal to make t work (or combinations thereof)? |
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 13, 2017 21:29:05 GMT
Yeah, that's what I thought. It's the average that counts, and +1 is +1 regardless of which character has the +1.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2017 21:51:33 GMT
Here's a question on the other side of that coin I've been fiddling with... What is the maximum number of loyalty missions one can still do and still have Shepard die in the end? Which squad mates would have to disloyal to make t work (or combinations thereof)? If all twelve are recruited? I would say 9 Loyal - Jack, Legion, Tali, Mordin, Garrus, Zaeed, Grunt, Thane and Kasumi not loyal - Samara, Miranda and Jacob No ship upgrades Jack, Legion and Thane die because of no upgrades send Garrus in the vent send Samara back with the crew Grunt/Zaeed get taken back seeker swarm Grunt/Zaeed 2nd fireteam leader Miranda and Jacob fight reaper Tali, Mordin and Kasumi hold the line. those 3 should die, if not I would say 2 of them die leaving either 1 squadmate or no squadmates alive causing Shepard to fall to her/his death I'm sure I can post another scenario from above that would get the same result. For now I will say 9. If Kasumi, Mordin and Tali all die holding the line, I would say 10 squadmates can be loyal and still have Shepard die since 2 squadmates are needed for him/her to live. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 22:03:53 GMT
Here's a question on the other side of that coin I've been fiddling with... What is the maximum number of loyalty missions one can still do and still have Shepard die in the end? Which squad mates would have to disloyal to make t work (or combinations thereof)? If all twelve are recruited? I would say 9 Loyal - Jack, Legion, Tali, Mordin, Garrus, Zaeed, Grunt, Thane and Kasumi not loyal - Samara, Miranda and Jacob No ship upgrades Jack, Legion and Thane die because of no upgrades send Garrus in the vent send Samara back with the crew Grunt/Zaeed get taken back seeker swarm Grunt/Zaeed 2nd fireteam leader Miranda and Jacob fight reaper Tali, Mordin and Kasumi hold the line. those 3 should die, if not I would say 2 of them die leaving either 1 squadmate or no squadmates alive causing Shepard to fall to her/his death I'm sure I can post another scenario from above that would get the same result. For now I will say 9. If Kasumi, Mordin and Tali all die holding the line, I would say 10 squadmates can be loyal and still have Shepard die since 2 squadmates are needed for him/her to live. So far, I'm getting 9 as well, but that's with sending Legion to Cerberus. Scratch that... still working on it. ETA: Got 10 - Loyalty missions done - Zaeed (lose loyalty in process), Miranda (lose loyalty in argument), Jack (remains loyal), Tali (lose loyalty in argument), Legiion (remains loyal), Thane (remains loyal), Garrus (remains loyal), Jacob (remains loyal), Grunt (remains loyal), Samara (remains loyal) Loyalty missons not done - Kasumi and Mordin No upgrades - Jack, Legion and Thane die (take Kasumi and Tali to fight the Occulus) Garrus dies in the vents Zaeed dies escorting the crew Grunt dies with Miranda holding up the barrier (Taking Grunt and Tali with you) Samara dies leading 2nd fire team Take Jacob (loyal = 2) and Miranda (disloyal = 1) for final battle. Miranda (disloyal) dies Mordin (disloyal = 0) and Kasumi (disloyal = 0) and Tali (disloyal = 0) all die Jacob is the only survivor; Shepard dies. Just got to 11 missions done, since either Mordin or Kasumi can be loyal and since average is 0.33333 (less that 0.5), all 3 should still die?... or does the average have to be 0? |
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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2017 22:22:36 GMT
So far, I'm getting 9 as well, but that's with sending Legion to Cerberus. The flaw I see here in this though is that your 2nd fireteam leader will live, since you list both Grunt and Zaeed as loyal. You can, however, do Zaeed's loyalty mission and still have him remain disloyal, so 10 should be possible without sending Legion to Cerberus, right? Is there maybe a way we can get it to 11 missions completed? Any squadmate who is not Garrus/Miranda/Jacob, will die, even if they're loyal, when chosen as the 2nd fireteam leader. They only survive if they're by themselves and a squadmate was taken by the seeker swarm. I would say a good chance that 10 can be loyal, if all 12 are recruited, while still having Shepard die. It all depends on having the 3, Tali, Mordin and Kasumi, die while holding the line. 9 for sure can be loyal I don't see 11 leading to the death of Shepard |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 12:51:00 GMT
Copied from the "What did you do today" thread Feb 18, 2017 5:19:16 GMT -7 themikefest said: excellent. That is a successful mission  Should post that in the suicide thread in case others might want to do that. I'm surprised Tali survived. ETA: Response: Well, TBH, I'm assuming Tali survived (according to the chart she should since the average score wasn't exactly 0.0. I wasn't really paying good attention when Shepard asked and, of course, Shepard still dies regardless. I'll just cut and paste this post over to the other thread... hopefully that works. |
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Post by I'm Not Dead Just Yet on Feb 18, 2017 21:53:45 GMT
Can someone tell me where I went wrong?
I had all squadmembers loyal except Tali. I didn't assign her to any roles throughout the whole suicide mission and she died at the very end. I tried reloading and taking her with me to the final fight against the human reaper but then Mordin died.
I did send Zaeed to escort the crew back to the ship, does that affect the "hold the line" average since him being loyal is four points? Would it work better if I sent Jack, Kasumi or Mordin instead so that Zaeed is there to hold the line?
Edit: Nevermind, sorry. Sending Zaeed back was my mistake. I sent Jack with the crew so Zaeed was holding the line this time instead and nobody died this time around.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 18, 2017 22:22:46 GMT
Can someone tell me where I went wrong? I had all squadmembers loyal except Tali. I didn't assign her to any roles throughout the whole suicide mission and she died at the very end. I tried reloading and taking her with me to the final fight against the human reaper but then Mordin died. I did send Zaeed to escort the crew back to the ship, does that affect the "hold the line" average since him being loyal is four points? Would it work better if I sent Jack, Kasumi or Mordin instead so that Zaeed is there to hold the line? Send Mordin back with the crew. With Zaeed holding the line, everyone should survive. Take Jack and Kasumi to fight the proto reaper. It leaves the stronger squadmates to hold the line |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 8, 2017 14:47:46 GMT
One thing I've never done, and most likely never will, is have all squadmates loyal, but send Garrus/Grunt/Zaeed back with the crew and take Grunt/Zaeed/Garrus to fight the proto reaper leaving everyone else to hold the line. I'm sure Mordin will die. A chance Tali will die as well. If someone has done this or is planning on doing this, I would be interested to know the result.
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Post by phoray on Mar 20, 2017 5:49:46 GMT
So, if Shepard dies, who is it in ME3? They bring them back to life again or that PT can't be imported?
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Post by mrfixit on Mar 20, 2017 9:14:39 GMT
So, if Shepard dies, who is it in ME3? They bring them back to life again or that PT can't be imported? Can't be imported. Shepard has to survive. For that to happen, I think you need at least 2 companions to live. |
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Post by themikefest on Mar 20, 2017 11:32:39 GMT
Can't be imported. Shepard has to survive. For that to happen, I think you need at least 2 companions to live. That's right. Two squadmates have to survive for Shepard to live Another thing is if the player has 2 squadmates alive, one of them being Zaeed, who isn't loyal, after surviving the suicide mission, he cannot die on his loyalty mission because 2 squadmates are needed to import into ME3 |
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Post by fessels on Apr 9, 2017 18:06:07 GMT
Not that I need it at the moment, but has any one tried this program in the past? ( Or in present times. ) Suicide Mission Survival CalculatorThe author mentions that it was hosted on the original BSN forums. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 13, 2017 12:32:36 GMT
Not that I need it at the moment, but has any one tried this program in the past? ( Or in present times. ) Suicide Mission Survival CalculatorThe author mentions that it was hosted on the original BSN forums. Never even knew that existed. I use a flowchart someone created that works exactly the same way. |
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Post by fessels on Apr 13, 2017 15:50:44 GMT
Not that I need it at the moment, but has any one tried this program in the past? ( Or in present times. ) Suicide Mission Survival CalculatorThe author mentions that it was hosted on the original BSN forums. Never even knew that existed. I use a flowchart someone created that works exactly the same way. Yeah I downloaded that flowchart from TheMikeFest a while ago as well, but when I found that program I got curious. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 14, 2017 2:13:10 GMT
Never even knew that existed. I use a flowchart someone created that works exactly the same way. Yeah I downloaded that flowchart from TheMikeFest a while ago as well, but when I found that program I got curious. Does it work any better? I confess that the flowchart initially threw me off because I didn't understand terms like "The Long Walk". As someone who bought the games on Steam and then just started playing early last year, references like that meant nothing. But I figured it out. |
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Post by fessels on Apr 14, 2017 9:46:05 GMT
Yeah I downloaded that flowchart from TheMikeFest a while ago as well, but when I found that program I got curious. Does it work any better? I confess that the flowchart initially threw me off because I didn't understand terms like "The Long Walk". As someone who bought the games on Steam and then just started playing early last year, references like that meant nothing. But I figured it out. It works easier from the get go then the Flowchart ( Although I can use the Flowchart. ) but whether the results it gives are correct ... I do not know yet? Hence the fact that I asked and showed it in here. The only character I hat who was about to go on the suicide mission ( My sentinel. ) was lost ... corrupted some how. So until one of my characters gets to the Suicide mission I will not know if the results of the program work in the game. I have only been playing around with it for a bit. Like on Wednesday after shifting around the team members I got this result ...  When I picked Grunt for a Fire team leader it shows that he is a bad FT leader,  so it does give a bit of info as to why a certain choice is bad. I was curious to see whether others knew if the result from this program work in game since the author mentions that the program was posted on the old forums. ( Guess we will have to wait and see if its results work. ) |
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Post by Monica21 on May 7, 2017 1:15:15 GMT
I'm going to be doing the suicide mission soon and I want to make sure I get it right for the results I want. Everyone is loyal and all ship upgrades have been made, but I need Jacob to be the only death and have Garrus be the one who slides off the platform before Shepard catches him.
For Jacob, I think I used to just send him into the vents. For Garrus I'm not sure. I think it has to do with the order in which the squadmate is chosen, so does anyone know how to make that happen?
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Post by themikefest on May 7, 2017 1:57:36 GMT
I'm going to be doing the suicide mission soon and I want to make sure I get it right for the results I want. Everyone is loyal and all ship upgrades have been made, but I need Jacob to be the only death and have Garrus be the one who slides off the platform before Shepard catches him. For Jacob, I think I used to just send him into the vents. For Garrus I'm not sure. I think it has to do with the order in which the squadmate is chosen, so does anyone know how to make that happen? Jacob will always die when chosen for the vent With Garrus? Take a look at this post. Let me know if it works. It did for the one's who tested it. |
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so it does give a bit of info as to why a certain choice is bad. I was curious to see whether others knew if the result from this program work in game since the author mentions that the program was posted on the old forums. ( Guess we will have to wait and see if its results work. )