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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 14, 2017 2:38:12 GMT
And for that a few Asari and Krogan are all that is needed. Because the point of the attack isn't to win a ground side military victory were they subjugate everyone. The point is to hold off off C-Sec just long enough for Sovergein to dock with the Citadel. After that without the deus ex machina that Shepard magically has it is game over for the rest of the galaxy. Even if Saren and the Asari and Krogan were swarmed under by the responds of C-Sec and any Specters on the Citadel. It wouldn't matter because they wouldn't have the knowledge or technical skills to over right the giant AI space cuttlefish who is a part of the race that build the Citadel and all it's systems. Rationalize it how ever you want in your own head. Fact is every scrap of measurable detail given in the original game points to how utterly stupid Saren is chasing after something and exposing not only his own actions but eventually Sovereign's as well going after a meaningless and pointless object that he wouldn't have needed in the first place. If he didn't act like a complete and total idiot. Acting as such a cliche bad guy that he literally shoot himself in the foot and ruins any logical plan he might have been able to do in the first 10 minutes of existing in the game. Chasing after a magical mcguffin that he only needs because he exposed himself over something so stupid. And it would be one thing if he went after the mcguffin because he was exposed. But the sprinkles and the shit sandwich that is Saren's plan is that he started after the mcguffin when he didn't need it and exposed himself over it. Seriously even ignoring the fact that with Sovereign's instruction Saren could have easily undid what the Protheans did to alter the Keeper signal. He could have just had the Geth take the Beacon off world and back to behind the Perseus Veil or to his secret base on Virmire. Used it there and then destroyed it. There is no logical reason for him to even be withing a dozen systems of Eden Prime when the events were taking place. A few krogan and asari take on C-Sec HQ (while also providing the general chaos and drawing away forces I mentioned)? You must be joking. Winning ground is precisely what needs to happen since they're not raiding a bake shop here. The fact that they don't intend to hold it afterwards is irrelevant. Saren needs enough troops to fight through C-Sec and back out again, up to the tower. Even if it's a one way trip for all involved, there's multiple stops and loop. Also when you already a geth army why the hell would you not use it? Saren made one mistake. Just one. He used violence at Eden Prime instead of deception and he left witnesses. He needed the beacon (because at that point no one knew what it did or what the Conduit was) he should've showed up with Benezia, a spectre and a matriarch here to take the beacon, wham bam thank you goodbye. And that's it. Instead he decided to torch the place. A stupid mistake, but even so it can be justified by his character. He's arrogant, hates humans and likes to cause carnage. He actually would've gotten away with it too if not for the most unlikely chain of coincidences (and also these pesky kids): a random quarian (a rarity round these parts) recovering geth memory which never happens, who travels to the Citadel and evades assassins by way of Shepard literally wandering down a random alley. Without these events happening exactly as they did, our heroes would've had precisely dick to a) strip Saren of his Spectre Status, promote Shepard to the Spectres and thus c) gather the band and gain command of the ship that would prove his downfall. C-Sec doesn't contain the sum total of all C-Sec officers on the Citadel. There are multiple precinct around the Citadel. It is needed because the sheer size of the space station. Since you know it is roughly 24 miles long and has multiple arms each equal length. Might be a main or the main C-Sec office but doesn't mean it will be full to the brim with ever C-Sec officer. He is using his Geth army they are in a space battle keeping the hundreds to thousands of military troops with military grade equipment busy in space. Geth have the capability to land troops on their own even drop them out of low orbit right to the ground. Not to mention as I think was UpUPAway or maybe Hans said regular ships docked with fake credentials or searches waved off by Saren's authority as Specter to store Geth in to attack once the Space battle started. The Master Control Unit that Saren wanted/needed is located in the Citadel Tower which isn't C-Sec's location. The attack on C-Sec only existed to wipe out the air traffic control/troop organizer. You don't need a massive army to raid the place, plant a few explosives and blow the place to hell. Thus preventing C-Sec from being able to organize a resistance. The plum and only reason for ground assault would be the Citadel Tower and more specifically the Council Chamber. And we already have Ashley's soldier examination of the layout to go by how well you could defend from in it from an outside force. All for the literal minutes it would take for Sovereign to cross the space between the Relay and the Citadel Tower. Once Sovereign docked it doesn't matter if the Tower gets taken by C-Sec forces. Saren might die but Sovereign doesn't really give a flying fuck about the life of Saren or any other indoctrinated person. And without the super magical inexplicable program that was some how created by the Prothean Scientists and sent to the VI on Ilos even though their communications were destroyed as the VI already said. Nothing short of another super advanced AI like EDI would have a chance of delaying Sovereign accessing all the systems it needs to. Meaning it is game over for the galaxy. Reapers are called in and harvest is started. Saren messed up on so many levels. These are just the more obvious ones. As UpUPAway said Sovereign knows how the Citadel works. It would have been hilariously easy just to have Saren examine the hidden mechanism to understand why the Keepers were not responding. Then capture and indoctrinate some Salarian or Asari Scientists and have them fix the problem. Boom Sovereign can now remote trigger the Citadel and game over. The Conduit is completely and utterly irrelevant to the whole attempt and has absolutely nothing to do with the plan to calling the Reapers. The only reason the Conduit has any point in the game is because the writing forces it into the lime light by having Saren be so unbelievably stupid and making Sovereign so unbelievably stupid to force it into being meaningful in anyway shape or form. I have no idea why you are trying to defend the undefendable. I have a few theories. But please keep trying.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 14, 2017 3:24:35 GMT
C-Sec doesn't contain the sum total of all C-Sec officers on the Citadel. There are multiple precinct around the Citadel. It is needed because the sheer size of the space station. Since you know it is roughly 24 miles long and has multiple arms each equal length. Might be a main or the main C-Sec office but doesn't mean it will be full to the brim with ever C-Sec officer. He is using his Geth army they are in a space battle keeping the hundreds to thousands of military troops with military grade equipment busy in space. Geth have the capability to land troops on their own even drop them out of low orbit right to the ground. Not to mention as I think was UpUPAway or maybe Hans said regular ships docked with fake credentials or searches waved off by Saren's authority as Specter to store Geth in to attack once the Space battle started. The Master Control Unit that Saren wanted/needed is located in the Citadel Tower which isn't C-Sec's location. The attack on C-Sec only existed to wipe out the air traffic control/troop organizer. You don't need a massive army to raid the place, plant a few explosives and blow the place to hell. Thus preventing C-Sec from being able to organize a resistance. The plum and only reason for ground assault would be the Citadel Tower and more specifically the Council Chamber. And we already have Ashley's soldier examination of the layout to go by how well you could defend from in it from an outside force. All for the literal minutes it would take for Sovereign to cross the space between the Relay and the Citadel Tower. Once Sovereign docked it doesn't matter if the Tower gets taken by C-Sec forces. Saren might die but Sovereign doesn't really give a flying fuck about the life of Saren or any other indoctrinated person. And without the super magical inexplicable program that was some how created by the Prothean Scientists and sent to the VI on Ilos even though their communications were destroyed as the VI already said. Nothing short of another super advanced AI like EDI would have a chance of delaying Sovereign accessing all the systems it needs to. Meaning it is game over for the galaxy. Reapers are called in and harvest is started. Saren messed up on so many levels. These are just the more obvious ones. As UpUPAway said Sovereign knows how the Citadel works. It would have been hilariously easy just to have Saren examine the hidden mechanism to understand why the Keepers were not responding. Then capture and indoctrinate some Salarian or Asari Scientists and have them fix the problem. Boom Sovereign can now remote trigger the Citadel and game over. The Conduit is completely and utterly irrelevant to the whole attempt and has absolutely nothing to do with the plan to calling the Reapers. The only reason the Conduit has any point in the game is because the writing forces it into the lime light by having Saren be so unbelievably stupid and making Sovereign so unbelievably stupid to force it into being meaningful in anyway shape or form. I have no idea why you are trying to defend the undefendable. I have a few theories. But please keep trying. I never said every C-Sec officer was there. Doesn't mean it's not one of the worst places to show up alone if you're the galaxy's most wanted. And all those other precincts you mention (or at least the ones closest to/on the Presidium) would likely have to be accounted for i..e kept busy so as to not rush over reinforcements. The path from C-Sec/Citadel Control to the Tower would also have to be kept fairly clear for obvious reasons. All of this requires troops. The fleet is the fleet, but there's plenty of geth left to fight on foot. The villain of the game has endless reserves of mooks. No big surprise. And Saren doesn't have spectre clearance anymore. So he can't wave shit through. Going to Citadel Control was needed to keep the staff from closing the arms so Sovereign can dock. He destroyed the controls then went on to the tower. You need an army or at least a good platoon to break through as Citadel Control is right down the hall from C-Sec HQ. As for Sovereign, Reapers play the long game remember? From Sovereign's perspective it's probably not enough to just call the Reapers in. It needs to figure out how the Protheans did what they did to ensure that shit doesn't happen again. The real stupidity is of course relying on the keepers to open the dark relay in the first place instead of having their own AI right in the Citadel itself, negating the need to even leave one full Reaper behind. Kind of like the holokid. It had one job. What, was it pouting? The real problem begins and ends at the Reapers. From the start their setup has made the situation impossible without massive amounts of stupidity at every turn. Why didn't they have their own program to turn on the dark relay? Why are the controls for that even on our side instead of out in dark space? Why did they go all the way to dark space when they could've chilled at the core with the Collectors or literally anywhere else behind a relay they could program to fling anyone not carrying a Reaper IFF into a nearby star? Why didn't they immediately shut down the relay network when arriving in ME3? If they can remotely indoctrinate through artifacts, why don't they make the whole Citadel indoctrinate everybody on it when it's time for the harvest? I could get into the problems the "art" heaps on but then we'd be here forever.
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Post by Ocelot on Jan 14, 2017 11:06:46 GMT
Sovereign: You know Harbinger, I could really use those modified protheans you've been hiding in the galactic core.
Harbinger: No.
Sovereign: Come on, I need them!
Harbinger: No I can't. We have to wait till the next game.
Sovereign: But why?
Harbinger: Because you die at the end of this game.
Sovereign: Wait what?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 11:19:42 GMT
Too bad the collectors weren't around to use their seeker swarm Sovereign to Collector Captain: Tell me you have something. This Saren dude is turning out to be a real idiot. Collector Captain: No, not yet. Who do you think I am? The great doctor Mordin Solus?
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Post by themikefest on Jan 14, 2017 14:50:34 GMT
Too bad the collectors weren't around to use their seeker swarm Sovereign to Collector Captain: Tell me you have something. This Saren dude is turning out to be a real idiot. Collector Captain: No, not yet. Who do you think I am? The great doctor Mordin Solus? The collector ship nears the Citadel. Seeker swarms are released paralyzing everyone inside. As that happens, Sovereign rams the Citadel fleet. Saren closes the arms so Sovereign can invite his buddies to start the harvest.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 18:18:28 GMT
Sovereign to Collector Captain: Tell me you have something. This Saren dude is turning out to be a real idiot. Collector Captain: No, not yet. Who do you think I am? The great doctor Mordin Solus? The collector ship nears the Citadel. Seeker swarms are released paralyzing everyone inside. As that happens, Sovereign rams the Citadel fleet. Saren closes the arms so Sovereign can invite his buddies to start the harvest. That was the plan... but too bad Sovereign was getting impatient and couldn't allow the Collector Captain the two more years of development time he needed... telling him to just slap something together and push it out the door as quickly as possible. As a result, the paralyzing agent, which was not yet sufficiently polished for release, was cut from the blueprints... and, well, you choose the ending.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 14, 2017 18:36:00 GMT
Hey, remember when the Collectors were this mysterious species beyond the Omega 4 relay that everyone wanted to know about but no one ever talked to? Well what if instead of wasting years with the Rachni or the recent Saren thing, the Reapers had them just ask to join the Citadel? We know they trade with other races in the Terminus so they are able to appear normal. Hell, let's go full Palpatine here. Sovereign incites the Rachni to attack but before the krogan get uplifted the Collectors swoop in to "save the day". The Collectors get praised as the heroes, get insta promoted to having an embassy, therefore justifying a lot of them being on the Citadel at once. Maybe they even get a Council seat in which case, bam! seeker swarm coup, everyone is paralyzed and the Collector "Councilor" is right freakin there to push the button and let Sovereign in. Irony points for undoing the last of the Prothean's meddling with their own puppets. Everyone gets slushied and humans inherit a brand new cycle where everyone maybe isn't a moron.
Wait, why do we even need a vanguard Reaper left behind again if the Collectors are under direct control and go about their merry way this whole time?
Maybe we should move this to Things that Don't Make Sense lol
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