mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Jan 21, 2018 1:01:33 GMT
You still the prequels aren't shit? wow. Anyway, it's been explained over and over again why she doesn't fit the definition of Marysue but all we get is " OMGZ SJW SHUT UP MARYSUEMARYSUEEUBOOKSGREATWHAAA!" There are plenty of actual valid criticisms that apply to all the good star wars films as well as the dogshit prequels.She's not a Sue, she's just a vehicle to sell action figures. Most of the female fans I encounter outside of SW forums love Rey. If I was a little girl, I'd love Rey too, but I'm not. She's "plucky generic action hero #45,876. Maybe the books and comic books will give her more depth. Personally, I'm just picky when it comes to my literary references. For example, the ending to ME3 wasn't good, but it wasn't necessarily a "dues ex machina" either. I can get behind this. I thought Rey ended up more as a plot device to evolve Kylo Ren in TLJ. And also, it can be annoying when you enjoy a film franchise that at it's core is built for kids. I can enjoy most of the star wars films except the prequels as long as I remind myself I'm no longer 8 and to roll with it.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 1:01:38 GMT
Because Jyn was never going to be a bigger than life, bad arse hero. Rather Jyn was the main character of a darker, grittier movie where the main characters were all destined to die. The humanness of the main character helps audiences connect to them and ups the emotion ... something George could have learnt from when writing Anakin as Space Jesus in Phantom Menace. If you think Anakin is a Gary Stu just because of his intelligence (mechanically in this case), then you're wrong; Good thing I don't think that, then. Anakin was an immaculate conception of the force (virgin birth), the prophesised one, had midichlorians coming out of his ears, cute, charming, pure as the driven snow, ace pilot who outpiloted everyone in a dangerous race, could build his own robots at the age of 7, let's make an exception anyway and train him even though he would normally be classified too old, picture of perfection. He manages to stay safe in a warzone, accidentally climbs into a fighter, accidentally turns it on, accidentally destroys a dangerous enemy ship and accidentally saves everyone on Naboo because that's what chosen ones do. Good job Anakin, you were literally the perfect child.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 21, 2018 1:08:08 GMT
Wait: when did Rey fly the Falcon in TLJ?
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Jan 21, 2018 1:27:42 GMT
Wait: when did Rey fly the Falcon in TLJ? they never made a point to show whether Chewie or Rey was the pilot. I figured she was since she flew it in TFA. I still say it's Chewie's ship. The only other person who had a real claim to *ownership* of the Falcon was Leia since she and Han were estranged but didn't seem to actually end their marriage.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 1:30:21 GMT
If you think Anakin is a Gary Stu just because of his intelligence (mechanically in this case), then you're wrong; Good thing I don't think that, then. Anakin was an immaculate conception of the force (virgin birth), the prophesised one, had midichlorians coming out of his ears, cute, charming, pure as the driven snow, ace pilot who outpiloted everyone in a dangerous race, could build his own robots at the age of 7, let's make an exception anyway and train him even though he would normally be classified too old, picture of perfection. He manages to stay safe in a warzone, accidentally climbs into a fighter, accidentally turns it on, accidentally destroys a dangerous enemy ship and accidentally saves everyone on Naboo because that's what chosen ones do. Good job Anakin, you were literally the perfect child. But he wasn't the perfect child. Anakin mentioned he lost to Selbulba in a podrace and he also had fear and anger in him.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 1:31:16 GMT
The prequels are very good especially since TLJ was released it made the prequels even better. Rey may not fit the definition but she comes close. You sound like those who defend the cringy flirting in ME:A beyond reason. Going for the insults huh?
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 1:32:12 GMT
You still the prequels aren't shit? wow. Anyway, it's been explained over and over again why she doesn't fit the definition of Marysue but all we get is " OMGZ SJW SHUT UP MARYSUEMARYSUEEUBOOKSGREATWHAAA!" There are plenty of actual valid criticisms that apply to all the good star wars films as well as the dogshit prequels.She's not a Sue, she's just a vehicle to sell action figures. Most of the female fans I encounter outside of SW forums love Rey. If I was a little girl, I'd love Rey too, but I'm not. She's "plucky generic action hero #45,876. Maybe the books and comic books will give her more depth. Personally, I'm just picky when it comes to my literary references. For example, the ending to ME3 wasn't good, but it wasn't necessarily a "dues ex machina" either. Hey, heathen, the toys aren't selling. Why aren't they selling? Because you need relatable characters to sell toys as nobody on the planet is born perfect and automatically loved by everyone.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 1:34:11 GMT
But he wasn't the perfect child. Anakin mentioned he lost to Selbulba in a podrace and he also had fear and anger in him. His fear was never shown, he never lost control of his anger, and if losing a podrace to Selbulba is all people have to argue that he isn't perfect well ...
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 1:39:28 GMT
Linda Hamilton was written off because she didn't want to reprise her role. This renders my point about Underworld being the pivot point how? Hey, I'm the Terminator expert here, don't tell me how to do my job.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 1:42:46 GMT
Let's ignore that Anakin's the only human to ever complete a podrace also. Not only finish, but win. At the age of 7. Such a plucky, imperfect little guy
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 1:53:06 GMT
If you think Anakin is a Gary Stu just because of his intelligence (mechanically in this case), then you're wrong; Good thing I don't think that, then. Anakin was an immaculate conception of the force (virgin birth), the prophesised one, had midichlorians coming out of his ears, cute, charming, pure as the driven snow, ace pilot who outpiloted everyone in a dangerous race, could build his own robots at the age of 7, let's make an exception anyway and train him even though he would normally be classified too old, picture of perfection. He manages to stay safe in a warzone, accidentally climbs into a fighter, accidentally turns it on, accidentally destroys a dangerous enemy ship and accidentally saves everyone on Naboo because that's what chosen ones do. Good job Anakin, you were literally the perfect child. Already explained the building robot part, have you not read my post? The pod race was not his first ride, nor was it an easy win. The high midichlorians played no part in the movie because he never used any force powers in the first movie since that's not how the force works (you need training). Virgin birth means nothing. And at least accidentally exploding a dangerous ship is some explanation effort compared to no explanation of anything Rey pulls of out a magic hat.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 21, 2018 1:56:40 GMT
You know the more I think about the more the argument that Rey is a stand in for the audience, light side affiliated anyways, makes sense with a lot of the things they have done with her character. Some of the blanks and question marks or even the things I had no issue with make more sense in light of that theory...that film theory.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 21, 2018 1:56:54 GMT
Good thing I don't think that, then. Anakin was an immaculate conception of the force (virgin birth), the prophesised one, had midichlorians coming out of his ears, cute, charming, pure as the driven snow, ace pilot who outpiloted everyone in a dangerous race, could build his own robots at the age of 7, let's make an exception anyway and train him even though he would normally be classified too old, picture of perfection. He manages to stay safe in a warzone, accidentally climbs into a fighter, accidentally turns it on, accidentally destroys a dangerous enemy ship and accidentally saves everyone on Naboo because that's what chosen ones do. Good job Anakin, you were literally the perfect child. Already explained the building robot part, have you not read my post? The pod race was not his first ride, nor was it an easy win. The high midichlorians played no part in the movie because he never used any force powers in the first movie since that's not how the force works (you need training). Virgin birth means nothing. And at least accidentally exploding a dangerous ship is some explanation effort compared to no explanation of anything Rey pulls of out a magic hat. Qui-Gon said he has quick reflexes, because it comes from the force and he can see things before they happen. Doesn't broomboy at the end use the force to without training? I can't remember. (serious question)
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 2:01:26 GMT
But he wasn't the perfect child. Anakin mentioned he lost to Selbulba in a podrace and he also had fear and anger in him. His fear was never shown, he never lost control of his anger, and if losing a podrace to Selbulba is all people have to argue that he isn't perfect well ... These were the scenes displaying his fear: They eventually grew out of control in later episodes but they were there.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:01:29 GMT
Already explained the building robot part, have you not read my post? The pod race was not his first ride, nor was it an easy win. The high midichlorians played no part in the movie because he never used any force powers in the first movie since that's not how the force works (you need training). Virgin birth means nothing. And at least accidentally exploding a dangerous ship is some explanation effort compared to no explanation of anything Rey pulls of out a magic hat. Qui-Gon said he has quick reflexes, because it comes from the force and he can see things before they happen. Doesn't broomboy at the end use the force to without training? I can't remember. (serious question) Explaining why one is gifted does not contribute to being a Mary Sue. Not explaining does.
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Jan 21, 2018 2:02:34 GMT
You sound like those who defend the cringy flirting in ME:A beyond reason. Going for the insults huh? attacking the point not the person.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 21, 2018 2:04:45 GMT
Going for the insults huh? attacking the point not the person. Hey, what's wrong with cringey flirting?
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:05:03 GMT
You know the more I think about the more the argument that Rey is a stand in for the audience, light side affiliated anyways, makes sense with a lot of the things they have done with her character. Some of the blanks and question marks or even the things I had no issue with make more sense in light of that theory...that film theory. You have no idea what a stand in for the audience is.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:05:34 GMT
Good thing I don't think that, then. Anakin was an immaculate conception of the force (virgin birth), the prophesised one, had midichlorians coming out of his ears, cute, charming, pure as the driven snow, ace pilot who outpiloted everyone in a dangerous race, could build his own robots at the age of 7, let's make an exception anyway and train him even though he would normally be classified too old, picture of perfection. He manages to stay safe in a warzone, accidentally climbs into a fighter, accidentally turns it on, accidentally destroys a dangerous enemy ship and accidentally saves everyone on Naboo because that's what chosen ones do. Good job Anakin, you were literally the perfect child. Already explained the building robot part, have you not read my post? The pod race was not his first ride, nor was it an easy win. The high midichlorians played no part in the movie because he never used any force powers in the first movie since that's not how the force works (you need training). Virgin birth means nothing. And at least accidentally exploding a dangerous ship is some explanation effort compared to no explanation of anything Rey pulls of out a magic hat. I did. I didn't reference it because it didn't apply. Sure there are great mathematicians at 7, sure there are great racers, sure there are people who are strong, sure there are people who are exceptionally lucky, sure there are people who are charming and adorable in every way. Anakin in TPM is all of these things, which is what makes him a perfect child. At the age of 7 participating in a race where people die and no human has ever completed a race, I'm sure it wasn't an easy win. That he won at all borders on the miraculous. His high midichlorian count didn't have to play a part in the first movie, it just needed to be there. Virgin Birth was Lucas literally comparing him to Jesus, in case you missed that metaphor. Accidentally exploding the ship was one of the biggest pieces of bullshit in the 8 movies so far. There was no effort required. If you watched that and bought it, but watched Rey and were in disbelief, there's something very wrong.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 2:08:21 GMT
Going for the insults huh? attacking the point not the person. You never attacked my point at all.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:13:03 GMT
Already explained the building robot part, have you not read my post? The pod race was not his first ride, nor was it an easy win. The high midichlorians played no part in the movie because he never used any force powers in the first movie since that's not how the force works (you need training). Virgin birth means nothing. And at least accidentally exploding a dangerous ship is some explanation effort compared to no explanation of anything Rey pulls of out a magic hat. I did. I didn't reference it because it didn't apply. Sure there are great mathematicians at 7, sure there are great racers, sure there are people who are strong, sure there are people who are exceptionally lucky, sure there are people who are charming and adorable in every way. Anakin in TPM is all of these things, which is what makes him a perfect child. At the age of 7 participating in a race where people die and no human has ever completed a race, I'm sure it wasn't an easy win. That he won at all borders on the miraculous. His high midichlorian count didn't have to play a part in the first movie, it just needed to be there. Virgin Birth was Lucas literally comparing him to Jesus, in case you missed that metaphor. Accidentally exploding the ship was one of the biggest pieces of bullshit in the 8 movies so far. There was no effort required. If you watched that and bought it, but watched Rey and were in disbelief, there's something very wrong. Again, Anakin has plenty of context to the things he can do (now that I think of it, even the Virgin birth is context). Rey, none. That's why all the Rey defenders latched onto "Ep8 will explain why she's so powerful."
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:13:26 GMT
These were the scenes displaying his fear: They eventually grew out of control in later episodes but they were there. Remember when I pasted a whole list of complaints of The Phantom Menace, and one which said George started the trilogy too soon because he wanted a heartbreaking goodbye with the mother, but George couldn't write it and Jake couldn't act it? That applies wholeheartedly to your first video. There was fear there? Could've fooled me 0.0 Remember when I said that having a little green puppet go "oh, much fear in you there is" doesn't add depth to the character because nothing is being shown? That applies to video number 2. Anakin didn't display fear in The Phantom Menace, not when he was in a warzone, not when he was wahooing in a stolen ship ... in a warzone, and not when he was racing a lethal podrace. But because he didn't want to leave his Mum, and Yoda's super developed sixth sense, the audience is supposed to believe it? The writing biz doesn't work like that, if you want the audience to believe it you need to show it.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:14:40 GMT
Again, Anakin has plenty of context to the things he can do (now that I think of it, even the Virgin birth is context). Rey, none. That's why all the Rey defender latched onto "Ep8 will explain why she's so powerful." Of course Anakin has plenty of context to do the things he can do. It's called "being born perfect".
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 2:16:45 GMT
These were the scenes displaying his fear: They eventually grew out of control in later episodes but they were there. Remember when I pasted a whole list of complaints of The Phantom Menace, and one which said George started the trilogy too soon because he wanted a heartbreaking goodbye with the mother, but George couldn't write it and Jake couldn't act it? That applies wholeheartedly to your first video. There was fear there? Could've fooled me 0.0 Remember when I said that having a little green puppet go "oh, much fear in you there is" doesn't add depth to the character because nothing is being shown? That applies to video number 2. Anakin didn't display fear in The Phantom Menace, not when he was in a warzone, not when he was wahooing in a stolen ship ... in a warzone, and not when he was racing a lethal podrace. But because he didn't want to leave his Mum, and Yoda's super developed sixth sense, the audience is supposed to believe it? The writing biz doesn't work like that, if you want the audience to believe it you need to show it. It did show fear, it just seems that you have an issue with the execution, but it was shown.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:17:07 GMT
Again, Anakin has plenty of context to the things he can do (now that I think of it, even the Virgin birth is context). Rey, none. That's why all the Rey defender latched onto "Ep8 will explain why she's so powerful." Of course Anakin has plenty of context to do the things he can do. It's called "being born perfect". Only he's not perfect.
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