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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:17:52 GMT
Of course Anakin has plenty of context to do the things he can do. It's called "being born perfect". Only he's not perfect. If by "not perfect" you mean "perfect in every way ... like Jesus", sure
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 2:18:48 GMT
Again, Anakin has plenty of context to the things he can do (now that I think of it, even the Virgin birth is context). Rey, none. That's why all the Rey defender latched onto "Ep8 will explain why she's so powerful." Of course Anakin has plenty of context to do the things he can do. It's called "being born perfect". Just because he was born perfect, doesn't mean he himself was perfect. He was gifted, but he wasn't a perfect human being and that led to his downfall.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 21, 2018 2:20:07 GMT
Qui-Gon said he has quick reflexes, because it comes from the force and he can see things before they happen. Doesn't broomboy at the end use the force to without training? I can't remember. (serious question) Explaining why one is gifted does not contribute to being a Mary Sue. Not explaining does. So simply not explaining why someone is gifted at something makes them a Gary/Mary Stu? Star Wars would be boring if they started giving out history lessons to each individual new character they introduce. So, no one can say they are a Gary/Mary Stu. This person was trained by X, this person was taught by Y.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:20:52 GMT
Of course Anakin has plenty of context to do the things he can do. It's called "being born perfect". Just because he was born perfect, doesn't mean he himself was perfect. He was gifted, but he wasn't a perfect human being and that led to his downfall. George established he was born perfect in The Phantom Menace. His flaws crept in during episode 2 and episode 3, they weren't shown in episode 1. This establishing of a perfect child will make the contrast with the fall all the more visible, unfortunately it meant nobody could relate to him. It's lazy writing at best.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:26:27 GMT
The fan community was better when everyone was united in their hatred of the prequels haha I kid, I kid ...
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:28:32 GMT
If by "not perfect" you mean "perfect in every way ... like Jesus", sure Anakin needed help to escape slavery and there was tension too. Rey didn't need help to escape slavery and there was no tension because of it.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 2:28:48 GMT
Just because he was born perfect, doesn't mean he himself was perfect. He was gifted, but he wasn't a perfect human being and that led to his downfall. George established he was born perfect in The Phantom Menace. His flaws crept in during episode 2 and episode 3, they weren't shown in episode 1. This establishing of a perfect child will make the contrast with the fall all the more visible, unfortunately it meant nobody could relate to him. It's lazy writing at best. His flaws were present in episode 1.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 21, 2018 2:29:41 GMT
The fan community was better when everyone was united in their hatred of the prequels haha I kid, I kid ... If Disney made better movies we wouldn't be arguing.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 21, 2018 2:31:13 GMT
If by "not perfect" you mean "perfect in every way ... like Jesus", sure Anakin needed help to escape slavery and there was tension too. Rey didn't need help to escape slavery and there was no tension because of it. It was a Junkyard. No where did it say the people there have slave chips or whatever they were called.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:31:31 GMT
If by "not perfect" you mean "perfect in every way ... like Jesus", sure Anakin needed help to escape slavery and there was tension too. Rey didn't need help to escape slavery and there was no tension because of it. There would have been tension to it, except there were very few visible signs of slavery. He could even take up extracurricular activities, like pod racing, and robot building. But hitching a ride doesn't make him any less perfect as a child, because there are some things children can and can't do. Rey didn't need to hitch a ride mainly because she's older than the kid.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:33:01 GMT
Explaining why one is gifted does not contribute to being a Mary Sue. Not explaining does. So simply not explaining why someone is gifted at something makes them a Gary/Mary Stu? Star Wars would be boring if they started giving out history lessons to each individual new character they introduce. So, no one can say they are a Gary/Mary Stu. This person was trained by X, this person was taught by Y. There has to be enough context otherwise you risk or entirely lose suspense of disbelief.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:36:11 GMT
The fan community was better when everyone was united in their hatred of the prequels haha I kid, I kid ... If Disney made better movies we wouldn't be arguing. I still think the best stuff is away from the movies All I want from Disney is for them to make the Old Republic canon so that some writers can write novels set in that time. Basically I want Disney to establish different time periods to give other writers a massive playground to play in. I'm not too fussed about the state of the movies. The discussions are fun though. There's been tons of pages arguing about Disney's new movies and it hasn't devolved into name calling or mud slinging, which is pretty darn good Better than most of the internet has managed
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:38:37 GMT
Anakin needed help to escape slavery and there was tension too. Rey didn't need help to escape slavery and there was no tension because of it. There would have been tension to it, except there were very few visible signs of slavery. He could even take up extracurricular activities, like pod racing, and robot building. But hitching a ride doesn't make him any less perfect as a child, because there are some things children can and can't do. Rey didn't need to hitch a ride mainly because she's older than the kid. Rey didn't need any help. Ever.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:41:22 GMT
Anakin needed help to escape slavery and there was tension too. Rey didn't need help to escape slavery and there was no tension because of it. It was a Junkyard. No where did it say the people there have slave chips or whatever they were called. Exactly, it's a plothole. There's no reason for a girl who skilled at everything and knows every language to be in that position. Nor any reason why she couldn't have stole the millennium Falcon earlier to escape. Nothing in these movies make sense.
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 2:42:47 GMT
There would have been tension to it, except there were very few visible signs of slavery. He could even take up extracurricular activities, like pod racing, and robot building. But hitching a ride doesn't make him any less perfect as a child, because there are some things children can and can't do. Rey didn't need to hitch a ride mainly because she's older than the kid. Rey didn't need any help. Ever. Not even Kylo Ren's?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 21, 2018 2:50:08 GMT
It was a Junkyard. No where did it say the people there have slave chips or whatever they were called. Exactly, it's a plothole. There's no reason for a girl who skilled at everything and knows every language to be in that position. Nor any reason why she couldn't have stole the millennium Falcon earlier to escape. Nothing in these movies make sense. I'm just talking about the physical space that Rey was in. She was never a slave like Anakin was. Rey choose to stay there for her parents to come back. I'm not saying it's a reason that makes sense, but it's the reason that's given.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 2:55:05 GMT
Rey didn't need any help. Ever. Not even Kylo Ren's? Nope, she saves Kylo Ren.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 21, 2018 2:58:08 GMT
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Post by river82 on Jan 21, 2018 3:03:18 GMT
Nope, she saves Kylo Ren. Not even against Snoke ...?
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 21, 2018 3:11:03 GMT
Also, i used to shit on Darth Krayt whenever he was referenced, despite his impressive showing against Abeloth, but Kylo and Snoke made me re-examine and mildly appreciate his character. Darth Zhorrid looks better by comparison. So does Dath Fatass Baras Fatass Once Baras discovered Chipotle on Coruscant it was over, but Zhorrid had a hard life. Also, add Darth Nihl to the list he's been pardoned for looking like a KISS reject.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 21, 2018 3:11:24 GMT
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Post by Terminator Force on Jan 21, 2018 3:15:50 GMT
Nope, she saves Kylo Ren. Not even against Snoke ...? Oh come up, we all know she was about to summon a Reaper to drop on Snoke.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 21, 2018 3:18:07 GMT
Nope, she saves Kylo Ren. Not even against Snoke ...? Thanks to her steadfast resistance to Snoke's torture it forced him to focus all of his attention on her, giving Kylo the opening he needed. Once again he owes her big time.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 21, 2018 3:23:09 GMT
It was too predictable. I wanted to make the viewer say wtf? like when George superimposed Hayden's head over Sebastien's body in his umpteenth RoTJ edit.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 21, 2018 3:48:37 GMT
It was too predictable. I wanted to make the viewer say wtf? like when George superimposed Hayden's head over Sebastien's body in his umpteenth RoTJ edit. Say what you will about it, but Lucasfilm can now use force ghost Anakin in 9 if they so choose.
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