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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 20, 2018 21:22:30 GMT
because there are a few people in this thread who personify Yeah No. There are certain things objectively wrong and bad about TLJ. No amount of whinging will change that, no matter how fervently you believe. If you analyze the film according to conventional storytelling metrics, it is bad. You are allowed to like it. You will be refuted when you claim that what is objectively bad is subjectively not
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 20, 2018 21:31:16 GMT
Yeah No. There are certain things objectively wrong and bad about TLJ. No amount of whinging will change that, no matter how fervently you believe. If you analyze the film according to conventional storytelling metrics, it is bad. You are allowed to like it. You will be refuted when you claim that what is objectively bad is subjectively not Precisely. There's a reason why the VAST majority of fiction adheres to the pretty much the same structure. It makes sense & forms a satisfying arc for the main characters. When someone creates a story which is DESIGNED to buck trends and be "edgy & unique" or "break new ground" they must be very careful to not go too far, to lose track of what the core, the HEART of the story is. In other words, there's a difference between being a clever genre writer & going full retard. It is a very thin line, but there IS A LINE
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 20, 2018 21:36:37 GMT
Always with the objectively bad from the hater crowd. As if there is right or wrong way to write a story or critique for that matter. Here are the keys, go write Episode 8, I'll be waiting. Write fan-ficiton do something beneficial instead of arguing you know how to write a film. Then I'll be over here complaining that your work is "objectively bad", it's fine that you hate the film, but don't claim that your side is right and my side is wrong. Because you simply know how to write a film.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 20, 2018 22:15:50 GMT
Is there a rule that a Force user can't use telekinesis on herself? Or her own clothing? Wouldn't need much force in zero-G. The issue is more that she gained this ability out of nowhere, that, and the ability to survive in vacuum, she was never trained. As far as "Leia Poppins" Kanan in Rebels does a similar feat. So, it has been done before in canon. acHe's a trained Jedi, she isn't. Actually, it is canon that she had used the Force before. She also has the mighty Skywalker blood. The book Aftermath: Life Debt says that and I quote: "Leia not only uses the Force to communicate with her unborn son — the future Kylo Ren — but also summons her abilities while flying the Millennium Falcon during an Imperial attack, according to Screen Rant. “There are even moments when she can feel the battle unfolding around her in space — invisibly, as if all of it is a warm stream in which she has dipped her hand,” Wendig writes." While true it hasn't been explained in the films, however Empire Leia did tap into the Force when she was "communicating" with Luke. Also from the article: " The book also explains that following the events of Return of the Jedi, Leia accepted some training from her brother Luke in order to further develop her gifts." time.com/4403117/star-wars-princess-leia-the-force/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 22:16:55 GMT
because there are a few people in this thread who personify Yeah No. There are certain things objectively wrong and bad about TLJ. No amount of whinging will change that, no matter how fervently you believe. If you analyze the film according to conventional storytelling metrics, it is bad. You are allowed to like it. You will be refuted when you claim that what is objectively bad is subjectively not Agree 100% I dönt see why this is sö hard tö understand.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 22:18:40 GMT
The issue is more that she gained this ability out of nowhere, that, and the ability to survive in vacuum, she was never trained. acHe's a trained Jedi, she isn't. Actually, it is canon that she had used the Force before. She also has the mighty Skywalker blood. The book Aftermath: Life Debt says that and I quote: "Leia not only uses the Force to communicate with her unborn son — the future Kylo Ren — but also summons her abilities while flying the Millennium Falcon during an Imperial attack, according to Screen Rant. “There are even moments when she can feel the battle unfolding around her in space — invisibly, as if all of it is a warm stream in which she has dipped her hand,” Wendig writes." While true it hasn't been explained in the films, however Empire Leia did tap into the Force when she was "communicating" with Luke. Also from the article: " The book also explains that following the events of Return of the Jedi, Leia accepted some training from her brother Luke in order to further develop her gifts." time.com/4403117/star-wars-princess-leia-the-force/Again using third party media tö explain the mövie means it is bad störytelling.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 20, 2018 22:20:18 GMT
Actually, it is canon that she had used the Force before. She also has the mighty Skywalker blood. The book Aftermath: Life Debt says that and I quote: "Leia not only uses the Force to communicate with her unborn son — the future Kylo Ren — but also summons her abilities while flying the Millennium Falcon during an Imperial attack, according to Screen Rant. “There are even moments when she can feel the battle unfolding around her in space — invisibly, as if all of it is a warm stream in which she has dipped her hand,” Wendig writes." While true it hasn't been explained in the films, however Empire Leia did tap into the Force when she was "communicating" with Luke. Also from the article: " The book also explains that following the events of Return of the Jedi, Leia accepted some training from her brother Luke in order to further develop her gifts." time.com/4403117/star-wars-princess-leia-the-force/Again using third party media tö explain the mövie means it is bad störytelling. Explaining it twice is also bad storytelling. There are times that stories just don't work in certain mediums. Those that have already read that material would say "I've already read that! I don't need to see it again!"
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 20, 2018 22:30:37 GMT
Yeah No. There are certain things objectively wrong and bad about TLJ. No amount of whinging will change that, no matter how fervently you believe. If you analyze the film according to conventional storytelling metrics, it is bad. You are allowed to like it. You will be refuted when you claim that what is objectively bad is subjectively not Agree 100% I dönt see why this is sö hard tö understand.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 20, 2018 22:55:48 GMT
Always with the objectively bad from the hater crowd. As if there is right or wrong way to write a story or critique for that matter. Here are the keys, go write Episode 8, I'll be waiting. Write fan-ficiton do something beneficial instead of arguing you know how to write a film. Then I'll be over here complaining that your work is "objectively bad", it's fine that you hate the film, but don't claim that your side is right and my side is wrong. Because you simply know how to write a film. So we agree Episode 8 is bad fanfiction, then?
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 20, 2018 22:58:50 GMT
3/10. That doesn't really work as an interpretation of Andrew's post, and the joke doesn't land without superficial plausibility.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 20, 2018 23:06:15 GMT
3/10. That doesn't really work as an interpretation of Andrew's post, and the joke doesn't land without superficial plausibility. Then I'll clarify:
"Then we agree Episode 8's quality only rises to the level of bad fanfiction..."
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Post by colfoley on Apr 20, 2018 23:15:07 GMT
Actually, it is canon that she had used the Force before. She also has the mighty Skywalker blood. The book Aftermath: Life Debt says that and I quote: "Leia not only uses the Force to communicate with her unborn son — the future Kylo Ren — but also summons her abilities while flying the Millennium Falcon during an Imperial attack, according to Screen Rant. “There are even moments when she can feel the battle unfolding around her in space — invisibly, as if all of it is a warm stream in which she has dipped her hand,” Wendig writes." While true it hasn't been explained in the films, however Empire Leia did tap into the Force when she was "communicating" with Luke. Also from the article: " The book also explains that following the events of Return of the Jedi, Leia accepted some training from her brother Luke in order to further develop her gifts." time.com/4403117/star-wars-princess-leia-the-force/Again using third party media tö explain the mövie means it is bad störytelling. Since...when?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 23:22:50 GMT
Again using third party media tö explain the mövie means it is bad störytelling. Since...when? Gö ahead, tell me anöther mövie that needs yöu tö read a boök tö understand what is göing ön in its öwn universe.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 20, 2018 23:26:50 GMT
You are allowed to like it. But that is not what I see in this thread. I see people say 'well I liked it' followed by someone posting a meme telling them how wrong, lost or stupid they are. It seems very much like people are not allowed to say they like anything without being shouted down. I am all for constructive criticism and discussion, but far to often it seem like this only goes one way. The only reason I can think for people to make this thread that unwelcoming to people who like these films is that it truly deeply offends them that someone likes something they don't. There are a lot of things in the world that warrant that level of reaction, Star Wars is really really not one of them.
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Post by HK90210 on Apr 20, 2018 23:27:24 GMT
Also, is it too early to start calling people Hitler for disagreeing with me, or are we not quite there yet? I just feel like this thread is going to graduate to that level sooner or later. /sarc
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 20, 2018 23:31:55 GMT
Gö ahead, tell me anöther mövie that needs yöu tö read a boök tö understand what is göing ön in its öwn universe. While it's not a book, but the MCU requires you to watch previous material. It's called canon and connecting the universe. I'd argue if they don't connect the books and what not then what's the point of reading the books?
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Post by Lavochkin on Apr 20, 2018 23:46:38 GMT
EU = Officially licensed fan fiction
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 21, 2018 0:03:31 GMT
Gö ahead, tell me anöther mövie that needs yöu tö read a boök tö understand what is göing ön in its öwn universe. While it's not a book, but the MCU requires you to watch previous material. It's called canon and connecting the universe. I'd argue if they don't connect the books and what not then what's the point of reading the books? 110% wrong & dumb. The films produced by Marvel studios DO NOT require knowledge of the books. They have clearly and intentionally stated as much. Knowledge about the comics will OBVIOUSLY enhance the viewer's experience, but Marvel has said many MANY times that they are not holding themselves hostage as far as comic accuracy goes. They will use the wealth of material from the books as inspiration/reference, but that is it. Nothing more. Another example of Straw-man. Do better
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 21, 2018 0:13:20 GMT
While it's not a book, but the MCU requires you to watch previous material. It's called canon and connecting the universe. I'd argue if they don't connect the books and what not then what's the point of reading the books? 110% wrong & dumb. The films produced by Marvel studios DO NOT require knowledge of the books. They have clearly and intentionally stated as much. Knowledge about the comics will OBVIOUSLY enhance the viewer's experience, but Marvel has said many MANY times that they are not holding themselves hostage as far as comic accuracy goes. They will use the wealth of material from the books as inspiration/reference, but that is it. Nothing more. Another example of Straw-man. Do better I clearly said WHILE ITS NOT A BOOK and the word WATCH.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 21, 2018 0:26:40 GMT
110% wrong & dumb. The films produced by Marvel studios DO NOT require knowledge of the books. They have clearly and intentionally stated as much. Knowledge about the comics will OBVIOUSLY enhance the viewer's experience, but Marvel has said many MANY times that they are not holding themselves hostage as far as comic accuracy goes. They will use the wealth of material from the books as inspiration/reference, but that is it. Nothing more. Another example of Straw-man. Do better I clearly said WHILE ITS NOT A BOOK and the word WATCH. it's okay to admit defeat
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 21, 2018 0:32:55 GMT
I clearly said WHILE ITS NOT A BOOK and the word WATCH. it's okay to admit defeat So what the difference then? Simply reading vs watching? Hate to break it to ya, but Leia used the Force before. Its canon. Rian has every right to use it whether you like it or not.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 21, 2018 0:50:13 GMT
it's okay to admit defeat So what the difference then? Simply reading vs watching? Hate to break it to ya, but Leia used the Force before. Its canon. Rian has every right to use it whether you like it or not. Are you on Ketamine??? I have said more than once that the Leia (and Luke) stuff in ep. 8 was not a problem. I actually liked it. The problem to me was the rest of the movie. Get your arguments straight dude. Episode 8 was garbage. Argue this point if you must, but know it is futile. Look around for proof, no other Star Wars movie (except perhaps ep. 1) has produced this much venom from the fanbase. (Also, try to dispute that the fans are not happy, you will be proven a fool again) I strongly recommend that you go back to Reddit or Tumblr or where ever you came from. God speed
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 21, 2018 0:50:57 GMT
Actually, it is canon that she had used the Force before. She also has the mighty Skywalker blood. The book Aftermath: Life Debt says that and I quote: "Leia not only uses the Force to communicate with her unborn son — the future Kylo Ren — but also summons her abilities while flying the Millennium Falcon during an Imperial attack, according to Screen Rant. “There are even moments when she can feel the battle unfolding around her in space — invisibly, as if all of it is a warm stream in which she has dipped her hand,” Wendig writes." While true it hasn't been explained in the films, however Empire Leia did tap into the Force when she was "communicating" with Luke. Also from the article: " The book also explains that following the events of Return of the Jedi, Leia accepted some training from her brother Luke in order to further develop her gifts." I don't know what this is, I'm certainly not wasting my time on books expanding on a movie I hated, and just to get basic story-related information - but at the very least they should get their stories straight: Is Leia as proficient in the Force as her father and her brother?
In other words, in the years between the events of The Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi, did she herself become a Jedi?
Apparently not. “This is a reflex action on her part,” Last Jedi writer-director Rian Johnson explained. “It’s the equivalent in my head of when you hear about parents, toddlers are caught under cars, and they suddenly get Hulk strength and can lift it up. Or a drowning person climbing their way to the surface.”
In other words, although Leia hasn’t been trained in the use of the Force, the power was always there. “It’s instinctual, her use of it. It’s the opposite of when Luke Force-pulls the saber in Hoth. It isn’t like, ‘I’m going to try and do this.’ For her it’s just an instinctual thing of, ‘I’m not done yet. I’m not giving up. I’m pulling myself back in.’”SourceThis, simply put, is not how it was firmly established that the Force works. You don't simply get Deus Ex Machina "Accidental magic" with someone who happens to be Force sensitive. Sure, Force sensitives tend to be extremely lucky, they have good instincts, and sometimes, rarely, they can even have some degree of control, but nothing comparable to this. In short, the Disney Wars treats some of his Powerful Female Protagonists TM as writer's pets, which I suppose makes sense considering that apparently "The Force is female"... She choose not to continue the training. Its canon and it happened in universe. it's fine if you don't like it, but it is what it is. Lucasfilm shouldn't have to explain something twice if it already existed in canon elsewhere. The books, animation it's all canon. It's not "accidental magic" if it's explained. Honestly, it wasn't that hard to look this information up. You can get the sparknote version if you want on Wookiepedia.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 0:55:33 GMT
Too salty 4 me
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 21, 2018 1:01:05 GMT
She choose not to continue the training. Its canon and it happened in universe. it's fine if you don't like it, but it is what it is. Lucasfilm shouldn't have to explain something twice if it already existed in canon elsewhere. The books, animation it's all canon. It's not "accidental magic" if it's explained. Honestly, it wasn't that hard to look this information up. You can get the sparknote version if you want on Wookiepedia. Apparently Rian Johnson doesn't agree with you. Not sure what you mean, but I don't think that's what he was saying "the power was always there and it was instinctual in nature". Her flying the Falcon is an example of that, at least to me.
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