Obadiah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 7, 2018 6:37:09 GMT
That wasn't my take, I actually really enjoyed the story of the prequels, if not so much half of Episode 1, most of 2, and some of 3. I also enjoyed most of the prequels, I have no real problem with Ep 2 or 3, but Ep 1 is troublesome. I feel a lot of my prequel issues could be fixed with a reworking of the timeline to exclude chunks of Ep 1. Have Anakin aged up to teen years when the first Obi/Padme meeting takes place (get rid of Qui-Gon completely, Obi can take that role). Keep the pod race/slave and trade war storyline. Tone Jar Jar way down (no silly voice or over the top animations) but keep him in there, I like the pay off of him being tricked into being key to the down fall of the republic. I then don't have to deal with bad child acting, Jar Jar Goofy or Liam Neeson. I was going to start out by saying what I don't like technically about the prequels, but the description was WAY too negative. Suffice it to say I consider these badly, badly, BADLY crafted films - cringeworthy at times - but at least enjoyable for one viewing. Certainly, they have a few good set pieces that present a decent spectacle. But, I do like the movies for their grand tale of the fall of society "to thunderous applause". It is a tale of complacency, hubris, arrogance, ambition, misdirection, betrayal, greed, and corruption, much of which had be explained to me by way of the novels. Once the novels reframed the movies (at least for me), the story sort of resonated as an epic cautionary tale with some very uncomfortable parallels to reality. Additionally, I find some of the ideas and plot elements profound. Just to list a few: - The idea that the clones are almost manufactured biological machines that just happen to be more creative than the droids, but still just machines (this is not explicit, but rather how they are treated, and are not felt through the Force), is pretty damn disturbing.
- The two main armies, droid and clones, largely dehumanized because they are manufactured, are wielded by people whose intent is, not to defend or protect, but to inflict suffering - the Trade Federation in its greedy attempt to get concessions from the Naboo and then the Senate, and Palpatine secretly causing suffering across the galaxy to enable his rise to power.
- Of course, who can forget Anakin, the flawed hero rising from the lawless planet of Tatooine, whose reckless behavior is enabled by Padme's complicity, manipulated through his own weakness, selfishness, ambition, jealousy, not to mention psychological torture, by Palpatine and twisted into to the villain (the RotS novel depicted this really well)
- Palpatine's machinations, creating divisions and enemies, stoking corruption and suffering, all to get the population to mistrust and turn on its own government and empower him. The Jedi, Senator Amidala, and Senator Organa can only watch in futility, all playing by their own ethical rules while their true enemy Palpatine has none. Reminds me of that great line from the Age of Ultron trailer, "You're all puppets, tangled in strings. Now I'm free. There are no strings on me."
The whole thing sorta has me in awe. It is strange that someone would try to tell a story this twisted, brutal, and unforgiving, with this much... goofiness. These are a few examples just for starters, but I could go on: - The Trade Federation's droids are absurd depictions for what they are, which is a massive army of violent killing machines
- The podrace on Tattoine has some of the drivers willfully trying to kill each other.
- Anakin, a 10 year old, kills a bunch of people almost by accident on the control ship
- Boba Fett watches his "father" get beheaded while the R2D2 and C3P0 crack droid jokes.
I just watched all three of them last week, and writing this kinda makes me want to go watch them again.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 7, 2018 10:35:11 GMT
Hmmm, much butthurt I sense in this author. Muuuuuch butthurt. Someone else took the cake as well it seems... unless this guy's so said "sources" actually have validity... there may be something toward it?
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 7, 2018 11:18:47 GMT
^ Was just going to post that video. Talk about calling it, bet this makes you guys wonder if I really have a time displacement machine.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 7, 2018 13:09:06 GMT
^ Was just going to post that video. Talk about calling it, bet this makes you guys wonder if I really have a time displacement machine. If you did, I'm sure you would've undone this shit already. For that cause, I would happily have given you my clothes, boots and motorcycle.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 13:14:43 GMT
KK leaving wönt magically fix it all. But it is a start.
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Obadiah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 7, 2018 13:53:52 GMT
The idea that the clones are almost manufactured biological machines that just happen to be more creative than the droids, but still just machines (this is not explicit, but rather how they are treated, and are not felt through the Force), is pretty damn disturbing. I don't know if this is "new SW" or what, but the Clones definitely have a Force presence, it's just... strange. IIRC it was mentioned in the Republic Commando books. I misremembered part of the explanation from the novel. The clones have "no malice, no hatred, not the slightest ill intent that might give warning" and so the Jedi couldn't sense the attack from Order 66.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 16:33:37 GMT
For that cause, I would happily have given you my clothes, boots and motorcycle.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jun 7, 2018 18:32:32 GMT
For that cause, I would happily have given you my clothes, boots and motorcycle. KK leaving wönt magically fix it all. But it is a start.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 7, 2018 18:38:24 GMT
^ Was just going to post that video. Talk about calling it, bet this makes you guys wonder if I really have a time displacement machine. If you did, I'm sure you would've undone this shit already. For that cause, I would happily have given you my clothes, boots and motorcycle. Being the crass boorish oaf that I am, I will up the ante - I will give my left nut to whatever scientific research or weird nut collector you choose, if you fix all this with yer wayback machine.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 7, 2018 18:44:47 GMT
KK leaving wönt magically fix it all. But it is a start. I disagree. Of course the resignation will cause a few of her cronies to leave too. Of course there will still be a few Feminists that stay on, and they will certainly have many more awful ideas. However, with a reasonable adult in charge of Lucasfilm the chance of pure idiocy being green-lit goes from 90% to about 19%
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 7, 2018 19:22:23 GMT
KK leaving wönt magically fix it all. But it is a start. I disagree. Of course the resignation will cause a few of her cronies to leave too. Of course there will still be a few Feminists that stay on, and they will certainly have many more awful ideas. However, with a reasonable adult in charge of Lucasfilm the chance of pure idiocy being green-lit goes from 90% to about 19% Let's keep politics out of this before this gets out of hand...
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 7, 2018 19:30:16 GMT
I disagree. Of course the resignation will cause a few of her cronies to leave too. Of course there will still be a few Feminists that stay on, and they will certainly have many more awful ideas. However, with a reasonable adult in charge of Lucasfilm the chance of pure idiocy being green-lit goes from 90% to about 19% Let's keep politics out of this before this gets out of hand... It's relevant; 3rd wave Feminist horse-shit is a BIG reason why ep. 8 went full retard & why there's one or 2 cringes in the Chewbacca movie
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 7, 2018 19:43:43 GMT
I disagree. Of course the resignation will cause a few of her cronies to leave too. Of course there will still be a few Feminists that stay on, and they will certainly have many more awful ideas. However, with a reasonable adult in charge of Lucasfilm the chance of pure idiocy being green-lit goes from 90% to about 19% Let's keep politics out of this before this gets out of hand... Hmmm... Everyone seems pretty unanimously happy about this announcement, with perhaps you as the lone exception. Are you about to throw a grenade in here? This thread is not getting out of hand. Take your hands and unwad your drawers, I think the high pitch in your voice here is the result of compressed testicles.
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Post by Lavochkin on Jun 7, 2018 19:47:08 GMT
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 7, 2018 19:53:11 GMT
Let's keep politics out of this before this gets out of hand... Hmmm... Everyone seems pretty unanimously happy about this announcement, with perhaps you as the lone exception. Are you about to throw a grenade in here? This thread is not getting out of hand. Take your hands and unwad your drawers, I think the high pitch in your voice here is the result of compressed testicles. This is NOT a politics thread. Hate KK all you want, but discuss STAR WARS. Go to the POLITICAL THREAD if you want to talk about 3rd wave feminism and all that shit.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 7, 2018 20:01:19 GMT
Hmmm... Everyone seems pretty unanimously happy about this announcement, with perhaps you as the lone exception. Are you about to throw a grenade in here? This thread is not getting out of hand. Take your hands and unwad your drawers, I think the high pitch in your voice here is the result of compressed testicles. This is NOT a politics thread. Hate KK all you want, but discuss STAR WARS. Go to the POLITICAL THREAD if you want to talk about 3rd wave feminism and all that shit. Hi. Kathleen Kennedy, pretty sure she had heavy involvement in the new shit movies you love. Seems like the reason most people don't like the movies is the direction she took them in, at least partly due to her politics and need to put them on screen. It is absolutely on topic, and you are butthurt about it because it causes problems with your inexperienced and warped worldview. Complain like this again and I will report you - I am serious.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 7, 2018 20:03:33 GMT
This is NOT a politics thread. Hate KK all you want, but discuss STAR WARS. Go to the POLITICAL THREAD if you want to talk about 3rd wave feminism and all that shit. Hi. Kathleen Kennedy, pretty sure she had heavy involvement in the new shit movies you love. Seems like the reason most people don't like the movies is the direction she took them in, because of her politics. It is absolutely on topic, and you are butthurt about it because it causes problems with your inexperienced and warped worldview. Complain like this again and I will report you - I am serious. lol, I'm butthurt?🤣
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 7, 2018 20:04:17 GMT
Sö the fact he built C3-PÖ wasnt a pröblem för yöu? Ör him saying yippie! The fact that we dönt see Öbi Wan and Anikin as clöse friends önly that we are töld they are thröugh öut the 3 films. It deströyed the mystery öf Darth Vader för me at least. Come now, the start of Episode III had a very good presentation of their relationship. "Leave him, or we'll never make it!" "His fate will be the same as ours." "Anakin, let's be fair, today YOU were the hero. And you deserve your glorious day with the politicians." "Something, something, saving your skin for the 10th time." "9th time. That business on Cato Neimodia doesn't...doesn't count." Not to mention these two scenes: I'm not saying the prequels don't have their flaws, but I think Episode III shows the friendship of Anakin and Obi-Wan rather well. It's funny that ROTS showed more of Anakin's "good" side compared to AOTC. Even so, TCW definitely rejuvenated his image and I'm glad that that show is around.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 7, 2018 20:13:16 GMT
Topic concerns aside, we will keep this out of the personal, yes? As for the topic, social group/issues may be discussed "in the context of a relevant, on-topic discussion as long as every post furthers the discussion in some way." So saying "feminism" is not an immediate one-way ticket to the Politics thread.
Now personally I think it's foolish to attribute the shit state of Star Wars to feminism alone, and I would agree merely repeating "Fuck Kathleen Kennedy and her feminist ways" ad nauseum isn't really taking the thread anywhere new. But, let's just chill and find new ways to further discussion.
Or preferably talk about something else. Just because the good Star Wars is dead doesn't mean there aren't still things to talk about it. I have to admit Mickey Wars dominating this thread for good or ill is just the cherry on top of depressing thoughts.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 7, 2018 20:58:31 GMT
This is NOT a politics thread. Hate KK all you want, but discuss STAR WARS. Go to the POLITICAL THREAD if you want to talk about 3rd wave feminism and all that shit. Hi. Kathleen Kennedy, pretty sure she had heavy involvement in the new shit movies you love. Seems like the reason most people don't like the movies is the direction she took them in, at least partly due to her politics and need to put them on screen. It is absolutely on topic, and you are butthurt about it because it causes problems with your inexperienced and warped worldview. Complain like this again and I will report you - I am serious. Speaking only for myself, the things I don't like about the new movies are pretty specific to story plot points that, if fixed, probably wouldn't change anything about the feminist vibe. *cough* I guess its not popular on this thread to think Luke and Han were handled just fine?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 7, 2018 21:05:40 GMT
Hi. Kathleen Kennedy, pretty sure she had heavy involvement in the new shit movies you love. Seems like the reason most people don't like the movies is the direction she took them in, at least partly due to her politics and need to put them on screen. It is absolutely on topic, and you are butthurt about it because it causes problems with your inexperienced and warped worldview. Complain like this again and I will report you - I am serious. Speaking only for myself, the things I don't like about the new movies are pretty specific to story plot points that, if fixed, probably wouldn't change anything about the feminist vibe. *cough* I guess its not popular on this thread to think Luke and Han were handled just fine? Definitely not fine with me, I would evaluate your IQ as undetectable. However, we all live in our own retarded illusion, so go nuts!
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2018 21:06:21 GMT
I guess its not popular on this thread to think Luke and Han were handled just fine? That would be my view. My main issue with TLJ was the casino planet filler. Solo was a fun film.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 7, 2018 21:12:24 GMT
*cough* I guess its not popular on this thread to think Luke and Han were handled just fine?
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Post by Nayawk on Jun 7, 2018 21:15:54 GMT
It is strange that someone would try to tell a story this twisted, brutal, and unforgiving, with this much... goofiness. These are a few examples just for starters, but I could go on: - The Trade Federation's droids are absurd depictions for what they are, which is a massive army of violent killing machines
- The podrace on Tattoine has some of the drivers willfully trying to kill each other.
- Anakin, a 10 year old, kills a bunch of people almost by accident on the control ship
- Boba Fett watches his "father" get beheaded while the R2D2 and C3P0 crack droid jokes.
I just watched all three of them last week, and writing this kinda makes me want to go watch them again. The fall of the republic is absolutely the best part of the prequels, at the time they got a bit of a lashing for being too political, but it was the main element I really enjoyed. With some serious editing I think they could be great movies. I wonder some times how much of what is good about the prequels was just lucked into. All the interesting philosophical knock on effect of creating clones / droid armies feels like it came about simply because Lucas didn't want the 'good guys' shooting millions of humans in a kids movie, thus droids, but he had tied himself to the clone wars name thanks to the OT, so lets make the good guys have the clones. The tone deafness of your above examples really makes me think he wasn't going for the complex movie that is laying under the surface at all, it's a happy accident.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 7, 2018 21:25:21 GMT
I guess its not popular on this thread to think Luke and Han were handled just fine? That would be my view. My main issue with TLJ was the casino planet filler. Solo was a fun film. Just to clarify - I was talking about what TFA's treatment of Han. From what I have heard, Solo is a decent film and I will watch it on Netflix/Whatever when it streams. I stand by my Luke/TLJ opinion. Blasphemy.
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