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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 3, 2019 1:22:11 GMT
These are no longer clones You sound like a Jedi. Reverence and respect for all life right? Until it comes to Clones, its fine to have a slave army of them. Yea, I knew someone was gonna take issue with this one. And you are not wrong. But what I meant was that in Clone Wars, the "good guys" never took out the clones, they just took out droids. Yes, the clones were kind of a slave soldier race "for" the good guys, who's only purpose was to fight and die for the Republic but at least the good guys fought with them, even befriended some of them at times.
Now, the good guys are routinely and without much thought killing indisputably sentient people. One can argue that those are not the nicest people, that it's a reality of war or that it's for a good cause (or all of the above combined) but still, I am not sure I'd trust that an 8 year old (the official age recommendation for this series) would necessarily catch all of these subtleties. At least for my taste, the series portaits (often lethal and often offensive, not defensive) violence too often as a positive resolution for conflict for such a series that is clearly targeted towards a very young audience.
Just my 2c.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 3, 2019 3:04:36 GMT
These are no longer clones You sound like a Jedi.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 3, 2019 9:43:02 GMT
You sound like a Jedi. Reverence and respect for all life right? Until it comes to Clones, its fine to have a slave army of them. To be fair, the Jedi for the most part were among the only ones to treat the clones as people. And there were Jedi who literally refused to treat the clones as people, you got a point?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2019 10:06:54 GMT
To be fair, the Jedi for the most part were among the only ones to treat the clones as people. And there were Jedi who literally refused to treat the clones as people, you got a point? You say their comment sounds like a Jedi, yet evidence shows that Jedi with the mindset you suggest were the minority thus not representative of the group like your statement suggests.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 3, 2019 10:32:42 GMT
Of course not. She is a great actress, and I am not saying otherwise. My point is, if she were as intelligent as she seems, why would she NOT question Lucasfilm's decisions? At least on a basic level? The general direction of her character, the overall arc of the sequel trilogy? The way her dentist wants her to look like a shark? What is she thinking? Because her job is to show up and say the lines as best she can, not halt production by demanding that the script be revised because she thinks she knows better than professional writers. She isn't legendary Harrison Ford with fifty years on the job who can make practically whatever demands he wants. She's a young actress who has had the opportunity of a lifetime just being a part of this project. Besides, us bitterly picking the plot apart in hindsight doesn't mean that it's obvious that a story is going wrong when it's still coming together. Knowledge and understanding of satisfying narrative structure isn't that widespread or that perfect, even among the people whose actual jobs it is to get it right. And it's not like she's the first actress to overdo it with the lip gloss and teeth-whitener for a public appearance. Applying make-up is an art rather than a science too, and not everybody can have the gift. One of the many, many reasons I steer clear of celebrity bullshit is actresses who look great on the big screen often not knowing when to stop when trussing themselves up for a night on telly, and it's a bit painful to look at. There's nohing coming together. TFA was a shitshow of copy-paste old plots and pretty animations and what little story was set up was torn down with the next. I don't know why they changed directors, but bringing in new directors for a thing that should be a coherent piece of narration wasn't the best idea.
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Post by mybudgee on Dec 3, 2019 15:52:54 GMT
Because her job is to show up and say the lines as best she can, not halt production by demanding that the script be revised because she thinks she knows better than professional writers. She isn't legendary Harrison Ford with fifty years on the job who can make practically whatever demands he wants. She's a young actress who has had the opportunity of a lifetime just being a part of this project. Besides, us bitterly picking the plot apart in hindsight doesn't mean that it's obvious that a story is going wrong when it's still coming together. Knowledge and understanding of satisfying narrative structure isn't that widespread or that perfect, even among the people whose actual jobs it is to get it right. There's nohing coming together. TFA was a shitshow of copy-paste old plots and pretty animations and what little story was set up was torn down with the next. I don't know why they changed directors, but bringing in new directors for a thing that should be a coherent piece of narration wasn't the best idea. Don't bother, sequel defenders have abandoned logic & reason a long time ago. They aren't even sure why they stick up for this disastrous trilogy
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 3, 2019 16:37:24 GMT
And there were Jedi who literally refused to treat the clones as people, you got a point? You say their comment sounds like a Jedi, yet evidence shows that Jedi with the mindset you suggest were the minority thus not representative of the group like your statement suggests. Nope, this is flatly inaccurate. They accepted the usage of a slave army, in the EU they were even called out on it a few times. I suppose in the new fluff, we are just supposed to ignore that the clones are indeed still human. The "Mindset" is proven now, I'd imagine. Doesn't matter how much you want to twist it, because from Yoda down, acceptance of a slave army was the majority and the questioning of it was the minority, not the other way around. Edit: Also stop talking like that, it doesn't sound intelligent, its just annoying to read.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 3, 2019 16:51:54 GMT
Question, what are Jedi Fallen Order's Vader's best feats?
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 3, 2019 17:05:31 GMT
Question, what are Jedi Fallen Order's Vader's best feats? Hard to say in the new fluff where even the mechanics of the Force got ripped out and never replaced. Example, Telekinetic Barriers for Force Adapts. That said though, his active Telekinetic abilities are likely far above average as you'd imagine given his casual destruction of Durasteel walkways and catwalks.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 3, 2019 17:31:52 GMT
Because her job is to show up and say the lines as best she can, not halt production by demanding that the script be revised because she thinks she knows better than professional writers. She isn't legendary Harrison Ford with fifty years on the job who can make practically whatever demands he wants. She's a young actress who has had the opportunity of a lifetime just being a part of this project. Besides, us bitterly picking the plot apart in hindsight doesn't mean that it's obvious that a story is going wrong when it's still coming together. Knowledge and understanding of satisfying narrative structure isn't that widespread or that perfect, even among the people whose actual jobs it is to get it right. And it's not like she's the first actress to overdo it with the lip gloss and teeth-whitener for a public appearance. Applying make-up is an art rather than a science too, and not everybody can have the gift. One of the many, many reasons I steer clear of celebrity bullshit is actresses who look great on the big screen often not knowing when to stop when trussing themselves up for a night on telly, and it's a bit painful to look at. There's nohing coming together. TFA was a shitshow of copy-paste old plots and pretty animations and what little story was set up was torn down with the next. I don't know why they changed directors, but bringing in new directors for a thing that should be a coherent piece of narration wasn't the best idea. That may be but still, I think Noxluxe has a point when it comes to Ridley. She is a young actress who landed a fantastic job oportunity. You also have to understand that she is probably not even as invested in Star Wars as a whole as you or other fans on the internet, that discuss the sequels are. For most people, it's enough that they can go to the theaters and see some fancy space action, maybe with some nostalgia moments thrown in for 2 hours and a bit every 1-2 years. That's it. Afterwards, they go home and go on with their lives. Even if they care enough to understand and dislike the incoherence in the plot, most people will just shake their head once and then just go on.
And as hard as it may be to believe, to some extent that may even go for the actors. Especially if they are confronted directly with the directors, screen writers and producers, who all think this is all a great idea for the plot, they might shake their heads but will probably just go along with it. It would take a lot of guts (and maybe even arrogance) to stand up in such an environment and I don't think it's fair to armchair-judge the actors for not making more fuss over the roles they've been given. After all, their job description is to work with the script, not against it.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 3, 2019 17:40:52 GMT
Because her job is to show up and say the lines as best she can, not halt production by demanding that the script be revised because she thinks she knows better than professional writers. She isn't legendary Harrison Ford with fifty years on the job who can make practically whatever demands he wants. She's a young actress who has had the opportunity of a lifetime just being a part of this project. Besides, us bitterly picking the plot apart in hindsight doesn't mean that it's obvious that a story is going wrong when it's still coming together. Knowledge and understanding of satisfying narrative structure isn't that widespread or that perfect, even among the people whose actual jobs it is to get it right. And it's not like she's the first actress to overdo it with the lip gloss and teeth-whitener for a public appearance. Applying make-up is an art rather than a science too, and not everybody can have the gift. One of the many, many reasons I steer clear of celebrity bullshit is actresses who look great on the big screen often not knowing when to stop when trussing themselves up for a night on telly, and it's a bit painful to look at. There's nohing coming together. TFA was a shitshow of copy-paste old plots and pretty animations and what little story was set up was torn down with the next. I don't know why they changed directors, but bringing in new directors for a thing that should be a coherent piece of narration wasn't the best idea. The potential issues that are created in changing directors when filming a series of films following a singular narrative were exasperated by a lack of oversight from Kathleen Kennedy. The original trilogy had different directors for each film, but Lucas maintained consistency by working closely with each films' staff. I can't tell if KK & JJ tried to mimic the production style of the OT, and botched it because of their incompetence/ignorance of the process but the end result is an incosistant mess. You have Rian Johnson writing his script for his sequel film at the same time JJ wrote his script for TFA resulting in the Flanderizations of Poe & Hux, the repetition of Finn's character arc, the stagnation of what little character Rey had, and story sequences that only exist to pad out a film's runtime. TL:DR, JJ & Kathleen Kennedy are overrated hacks.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 3, 2019 17:49:56 GMT
Question, what are Jedi Fallen Order's Vader's best feats? Hard to say in the new fluff where even the mechanics of the Force got ripped out and never replaced. Example, Telekinetic Barriers for Force Adapts. That said though, his active Telekinetic abilities are likely far above average as you'd imagine given his casual destruction of Durasteel walkways and catwalks. So far Disney Vader pales in comparison to EU Vader. I only remember one instance of TK barrier and was from a lava swimming feat by Vader in his comic, and it was a decent feat.
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Post by mybudgee on Dec 3, 2019 18:35:39 GMT
There's nohing coming together. TFA was a shitshow of copy-paste old plots and pretty animations and what little story was set up was torn down with the next. I don't know why they changed directors, but bringing in new directors for a thing that should be a coherent piece of narration wasn't the best idea. The potential issues that are created in changing directors when filming a series of films following a singular narrative were exasperated by a lack of oversight from Kathleen Kennedy. The original trilogy had different directors for each film, but Lucas maintained consistency by working closely with each films' staff. I can't tell if KK & JJ tried to mimic the production style of the OT, and botched it because of their incompetence/ignorance of the process but the end result is an incosistant mess. You have Rian Johnson writing his script for his sequel film at the same time JJ wrote his script for TFA Is this accurate?
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 3, 2019 19:17:04 GMT
There's nohing coming together. TFA was a shitshow of copy-paste old plots and pretty animations and what little story was set up was torn down with the next. I don't know why they changed directors, but bringing in new directors for a thing that should be a coherent piece of narration wasn't the best idea. Don't bother, sequel defenders have abandoned logic & reason a long time ago. They aren't even sure why they stick up for this disastrous trilogy Where's this coming from? I'm certainly no "sequel defender", I could talk your ear off about all my problems with Force Awakens and Last Jedi, and Rey's character in particular. But that doesn't mean I see any reason to blow things way out of proportion. Mediocre movies happen. It's not easy to tell great stories.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2019 19:31:42 GMT
Don't bother, sequel defenders have abandoned logic & reason a long time ago. They aren't even sure why they stick up for this disastrous trilogy Where's this coming from? I'm certainly no "sequel defender", I could talk your ear off about all my problems with Force Awakens and Last Jedi, and Rey's character in particular. But that doesn't mean I see any reason to blow things way out of proportion. Mediocre movies happen. It's not easy to tell great stories. Don't bother, sequel haters have abandoned logic & reason a long time ago.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2019 20:09:12 GMT
Don't bother, sequel defenders have abandoned logic & reason a long time ago. They aren't even sure why they stick up for this disastrous trilogy Where's this coming from? I'm certainly no "sequel defender", I could talk your ear off about all my problems with Force Awakens and Last Jedi, and Rey's character in particular. But that doesn't mean I see any reason to blow things way out of proportion. Mediocre movies happen. It's not easy to tell great stories. The Force Awakens was mediocre. There;'s a reason why I call Episode VIII "The Last Dumpster Fire", though. Still, I too, am more inclined to blame the writers and directors than the actors, though. The actors had so little to work with who could say if they'd have done better with actual quality material?
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2019 20:19:14 GMT
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 3, 2019 22:10:42 GMT
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 3, 2019 23:07:22 GMT
Don't bother, sequel defenders have abandoned logic & reason a long time ago. They aren't even sure why they stick up for this disastrous trilogy Where's this coming from? I'm certainly no "sequel defender", I could talk your ear off about all my problems with Force Awakens and Last Jedi, and Rey's character in particular. But that doesn't mean I see any reason to blow things way out of proportion. Mediocre movies happen. It's not easy to tell great stories. No, but there's a minimum standard to be expected of a long standing successful franchise with multi-billion budget.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 4, 2019 3:27:06 GMT
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 4, 2019 3:39:18 GMT
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 4, 2019 8:20:34 GMT
No, but there's a minimum standard to be expected of a long standing successful franchise with multi-billion budget. One would have thought that the last seven mediocre Star Wars movies - each with at least a few good moments redeeming them from reasonably being called "trash" or "shitshows" - would have cured you of that cycle of optimism and disappointment. And no. After The Hobbit and Fantastic Beasts, not to mention the prequels a decade and a half ago, automatically expecting excellence from sequel or expanding trilogies made years after successful movie series is pretty silly, regardless of budget. In any case it's not worth complaining about forever. I can't believe it took fifteen years for every other sentence about Star Wars to be more than just bitching about the prequel trilogy being less than great. And that ridiculously over-the-top reaction definitely affected how this trilogy was approached. So that was great. Can we please please not do that again? It was annoying and embarrassing then and it's annoying and embarrassing now
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 4, 2019 9:15:39 GMT
No, but there's a minimum standard to be expected of a long standing successful franchise with multi-billion budget. ... It was annoying and embarrassing then and it's annoying and embarrassing now I fully agree on the embarrassing. Can't tell about the annoying, but I'm kinda allergic to hearing praise for a dump of shit like it was the bestest stuff ever. If ppl stopped doling out critique that shit won't become better.
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 4, 2019 9:33:03 GMT
I fully agree on the embarrassing. Can't tell about the annoying, but I'm kinda allergic to hearing praise for a dump of shit like it was the bestest stuff ever. If ppl stopped doling out critique that shit won't become better. You could go back fifty pages on this thread and I doubt you'd find a single comment "praising a dump of shit like it's the bestest stuff ever". Critique has been doled out. Repeating it ad infinitum far past the point of anyone being in any doubt what the reaction was is just whining, and exaggerating it so ridiculously is just hating for the sake of hating. The only thing accomplished by that is fans getting dismissed as whining haters, and then the actually valid critique is ignored. Which isn't exactly brilliant if you're hoping for higher quality writing anytime soon.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 4, 2019 9:55:05 GMT
I fully agree on the embarrassing. Can't tell about the annoying, but I'm kinda allergic to hearing praise for a dump of shit like it was the bestest stuff ever. If ppl stopped doling out critique that shit won't become better. You could go back fifty pages on this thread and I doubt you'd find a single comment "praising a dump of shit like it's the bestest stuff ever". Critique has been doled out. Repeating it ad infinitum far past the point of anyone being in any doubt what the reaction was is just whining, and exaggerating it so ridiculously is just hating for the sake of hating. The only thing accomplished by that is fans getting dismissed as whining haters, and then the actually valid critique is ignored. Which isn't exactly brilliant if you're hoping for higher quality writing anytime soon. You're free to ignore it. It's just a button press.
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