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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 28, 2019 9:34:48 GMT
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Dec 28, 2019 12:47:13 GMT
Anyone else notice someone pulled another Holdo maneuver on a First Order command ship in one of the final scenes in the sky over Endor? 😖😆
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Dec 28, 2019 13:14:36 GMT
I don't buy it. Not saying they don't have power but at no point did they give any indication they had control of the Galaxy. If they did Kylo and co wouldn't have been so eager for the Final Order Fleet to show up. If the 'First Order' is anything more then a couple of Star Destroyers and a few garrisons of Stormtroopers here and there, I'd be shocked. Or too many things that have been misintrepreted, for some reason. Hux found out when the rest of the Galaxy found out. He only knew that Kylo Ren was off looking for something that could lead them to the planet in question. No one else knew because Palpetine was being secretive and Exegol was on a lost planet that no one knew how to find, other then Palpetine and Vader, even Luke couldn't find it. As for Starkiller base versus the Sith Eternal...different tech bases and superior design. I mean hell Starkiller base was pretty effective given that it could wipe out entire Solar Systems... Palpetine was ELEVATING Kylo Ren, not undermining him. Again Hux does not like Kylo (can't blame him) and he sees the guy...possibly...being set up as the next Emperor, why wouldn't he spy on him and try and overthrow him? Working with Palpetine wouldn't cut it because, again, Palpetine was looking as though he were supporting Kylo... All this made perfect sense to me when I watched it or I figured it out by thinking on it later. What? A couple of star destroyers and a few garrisons of troops? If that were the case people wouldn't be so scared to help the resistance. Just look at the sheer amount of troops just at Starkiller base when Hux is giving his speech in the Force Awakens, right before they destroyed the republic capital and really started taking over. Just like when they go to the casino in the Last Jedi and Rose talks about how all the people with the money are working with the First Order. Why? Because the First Order in charge, just like the Empire was in the original trilogy. Why do you think Poe's mysterious friend needed that token to make a new life. Because the First Order was in control and she needed it make her way through the areas they controlled. If the First Order was loosely spread out, a few troops here, and star destroyer there as you say this wouldn't be the case. Things were locked down. And this is something that was introduced as a plot device in this movie, so can't blame anyone but JJ for setting it up this way. How did Hux find out when the rest of the galaxy found did? The very first scene of the movie is Poe and Finn getting a communication from the spy. They come back to base, translate the message and it says the Emperor is still alive to everyone's dismay. Finn asks how he is still alive, he's supposed to be dead. Leia says it's because he's pure evil or something along those lines. Hux told the resistance that the Emperor was alive, and how to to find him, no misinterpretations involved, that's what happened in the very beginning of the movie. So like I said, makes no sense for Hux to give the Emperor up because as long as Palpatine is in charge, Kylo isn't. If something happens to Emperor due to Hux giving him up it just makes Kylo Supreme Leader, which Hux doesn't want. So giving up the fact that the Emperor is still alive and how to find him made no sense if the goal was to diminish Kylo. Hux gave up the information and immediately upon hearing it Rey says 'Oh, I saw something about this in one of the Jedi books I was reading'. Including pictures. Strange, seeing that only two were made and Luke had never seen one before. But that's neither here nor there. Also, never said Palpatine was undermining Kylo. I said Hux, if he wanted to get at Kylo should have undermined him like he did with Snoke. Example, when he said that he wanted to go back and get the droid, but Kylo said having Rey was enough and they left, so now the resistance probably has the map to Skywalker. That's what I was talking about. The more I thought about the movie the more things I found that made absolutely no sense.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 28, 2019 18:24:16 GMT
I don't buy it. Not saying they don't have power but at no point did they give any indication they had control of the Galaxy. If they did Kylo and co wouldn't have been so eager for the Final Order Fleet to show up. If the 'First Order' is anything more then a couple of Star Destroyers and a few garrisons of Stormtroopers here and there, I'd be shocked. Or too many things that have been misintrepreted, for some reason. Hux found out when the rest of the Galaxy found out. He only knew that Kylo Ren was off looking for something that could lead them to the planet in question. No one else knew because Palpetine was being secretive and Exegol was on a lost planet that no one knew how to find, other then Palpetine and Vader, even Luke couldn't find it. As for Starkiller base versus the Sith Eternal...different tech bases and superior design. I mean hell Starkiller base was pretty effective given that it could wipe out entire Solar Systems... Palpetine was ELEVATING Kylo Ren, not undermining him. Again Hux does not like Kylo (can't blame him) and he sees the guy...possibly...being set up as the next Emperor, why wouldn't he spy on him and try and overthrow him? Working with Palpetine wouldn't cut it because, again, Palpetine was looking as though he were supporting Kylo... All this made perfect sense to me when I watched it or I figured it out by thinking on it later. What? A couple of star destroyers and a few garrisons of troops? If that were the case people wouldn't be so scared to help the resistance. Just look at the sheer amount of troops just at Starkiller base when Hux is giving his speech in the Force Awakens, right before they destroyed the republic capital and really started taking over. Just like when they go to the casino in the Last Jedi and Rose talks about how all the people with the money are working with the First Order. Why? Because the First Order in charge, just like the Empire was in the original trilogy. Why do you think Poe's mysterious friend needed that token to make a new life. Because the First Order was in control and she needed it make her way through the areas they controlled. If the First Order was loosely spread out, a few troops here, and star destroyer there as you say this wouldn't be the case. Things were locked down. And this is something that was introduced as a plot device in this movie, so can't blame anyone but JJ for setting it up this way. How did Hux find out when the rest of the galaxy found did? The very first scene of the movie is Poe and Finn getting a communication from the spy. They come back to base, translate the message and it says the Emperor is still alive to everyone's dismay. Finn asks how he is still alive, he's supposed to be dead. Leia says it's because he's pure evil or something along those lines. Hux told the resistance that the Emperor was alive, and how to to find him, no misinterpretations involved, that's what happened in the very beginning of the movie. So like I said, makes no sense for Hux to give the Emperor up because as long as Palpatine is in charge, Kylo isn't. If something happens to Emperor due to Hux giving him up it just makes Kylo Supreme Leader, which Hux doesn't want. So giving up the fact that the Emperor is still alive and how to find him made no sense if the goal was to diminish Kylo. Hux gave up the information and immediately upon hearing it Rey says 'Oh, I saw something about this in one of the Jedi books I was reading'. Including pictures. Strange, seeing that only two were made and Luke had never seen one before. But that's neither here nor there. Also, never said Palpatine was undermining Kylo. I said Hux, if he wanted to get at Kylo should have undermined him like he did with Snoke. Example, when he said that he wanted to go back and get the droid, but Kylo said having Rey was enough and they left, so now the resistance probably has the map to Skywalker. That's what I was talking about. The more I thought about the movie the more things I found that made absolutely no sense. To be clear that's what they likely have at the end of the movie. Based on events in the movie people WEREN'T scared of the First Order since the Final Order fleet was much more powerful then anything the First Order had at their height. They just needed to coordinate things properly. Most of them probably died on Starkiller. Things weren't locked down. If you paid attention in the movie then Keri Russell said she needed the medallion to get into the Core. This suggests to me that the FO only has control over some of the Outer Territiries...which makes perfect sense. Ah that's right. In any case Hux was just confirming what everyone already knew, the resistance didn't want it to be a FO trap. The rest of my point stands, the Emperor was supporting Ren...someone Hux hated...for good reason. And last but not least we find out in TLJ that the people on Canto Bight were making money selling to both sides.
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Post by eternalgoddess on Dec 28, 2019 19:15:52 GMT
So my gf took me to see RoS and all I can say is no sex for her tonight.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Dec 28, 2019 21:17:59 GMT
Based on events in the movie people WEREN'T scared of the First Order since the Final Order fleet was much more powerful then anything the First Order had at their height. They just needed to coordinate things properly. Most of them probably died on Starkiller. Things weren't locked down. If you paid attention in the movie then Keri Russell said she needed the medallion to get into the Core. This suggests to me that the FO only has control over some of the Outer Territiries...which makes perfect sense. Ah that's right. In any case Hux was just confirming what everyone already knew, the resistance didn't want it to be a FO trap. The rest of my point stands, the Emperor was supporting Ren...someone Hux hated...for good reason. And last but not least we find out in TLJ that the people on Canto Bight were making money selling to both sides. Man, you're just ignoring everything in the movies up to this point. The First Order destroys the New Republic in the first movie. When the second movie starts the opening crawl says something along the lines of Snoke has destroyed the republic and is sending his troops to take control of the rest of the galaxy. That only the resistance stands in his way. By the end of the second movie the resistance has been reduced to a handful of people on the Falcon. So who was stopping the First Order's march across the galaxy? When the third movie starts, they go out of their way to say that the resistance has been calling everywhere for help but no one will answer. There would be no other reason for this other than people are scared to help them for fear they'll be wiped out. Those are the events from all three movies. How you can just ignore all this is beyond me. This was all before anyone even knows about the Final Order. Hux was just confirming what people already knew. What? The Resistance only knew because of Hux. The First Order didn't find out until Kylo said it in the meeting, along with the fact that they had a spy. Which was after Hux had told the Resistance. That was when the one general asked what did Palpatine want in return, and another said that they were going to have to ramp up the rate they were abducting people to man the new ships.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 28, 2019 22:06:59 GMT
So there goes that complaint. I am now 95% fine with her parentage. I mean the biggest connection is the Jakku angle. Consider: Anakin was from Tatoine, Ben hid Luke there in plain sight. Given all the background on Jakku her parents hiding her there was in plain sight. It's ALMOST like they planned all this from the beginning... and honestly Disney knew that SWs fans were expecting the big reveal in the second movie...so they put in a red hearing. Imo Rise makes TLJ even better.
These movies are so good!
Take into account the thematic lessons here, the moral gREYness if you will. Here you have a child of darkness, hunted and pursued by the dark side of the Force for her entire life, acting out of anger and fear more times then not, yet she chooses to do good. On the flip side you have a child of light through, for like 80% of these movies, he chooses to do horrible things and is corrupted. These two people, this dyad in the Force is brought into conflict, fighting the same war their parents and literal grandparents have been fighting for generations. If there is one part of this movie that I think will get better its the lightsaber duel on the ruins of the Death Star...but anyways here they are, fighting to exaustion until they just decide not to fight those wars anymore. They honor their past and moves on. Kylo by recognizing with the 'spirit' of his dad and Rey by continuing to fight as a Jedi in the end. In the end a Palpetine, grandaughter of darkness, and a Skywalker son of light choose to stand together against the font of all evil in this franchise...and they defeat him.
Such awesome, much gushing.
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ღ The Untitled
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Post by mousestalker on Dec 28, 2019 22:59:49 GMT
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Post by Serza on Dec 28, 2019 23:36:40 GMT
Many will argue that this is not the way.
But I see no transgressions againist the Resol'nare.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Dec 29, 2019 3:39:51 GMT
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 29, 2019 4:23:10 GMT
Snoke was a retcon. Snoke was the Supreme leader, with no inkling that someone else was pulling the strings, and he had Sith Lord level Force abilities. Then in TROS we find out that you can grow this kind of power in a tub, and more than one. Saying that Snoke was never in charge, and he was just a puppet was definitely a retcon done for no other reason than to legitimize Palpatine coming back from the dead. Kylo Ren finally breaking free from Snoke and taking control of the First Order to bend the galaxy to his will. How exactly was the Emperor pulling the strings after Snoke died if Kylo didn't even know he as alive? Just more to show that the Emperor was just plucked out of thin air and everything about him was a retcon. To address these two, these aren't retcons: they're Palpatine's MO. With Snoke, it's hardly the first time he created a super powerful Force user since he created Anakin. As for manipulating Snoke and Kylo, like I said Palpatine is a master of manipulating events even on a galactic scale to fit his ambitions. He manipulated people not just directly, but just having things set up so no matter what happened he'd be in a better position than before. Neither are retcons since the entire saga set him up to be like this. Palpatine didn't create Anakin. It was only a vision of one of his worst fears while another false vision showed Padme commiting suicide. dorksideoftheforce.com/2019/12/23/star-wars-lucasfilm-story-group-palpatine-created-anakin/screenrant.com/star-wars-emperor-palpatine-not-create-anakin-skywalker/
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 29, 2019 4:50:41 GMT
Palpatine being responsible for creating Anakin would be problematic.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 29, 2019 5:33:57 GMT
To address these two, these aren't retcons: they're Palpatine's MO. With Snoke, it's hardly the first time he created a super powerful Force user since he created Anakin. As for manipulating Snoke and Kylo, like I said Palpatine is a master of manipulating events even on a galactic scale to fit his ambitions. He manipulated people not just directly, but just having things set up so no matter what happened he'd be in a better position than before. Neither are retcons since the entire saga set him up to be like this. Palpatine didn't create Anakin. It was only a vision of one of his worst fears while another false vision showed Padme commiting suicide. dorksideoftheforce.com/2019/12/23/star-wars-lucasfilm-story-group-palpatine-created-anakin/screenrant.com/star-wars-emperor-palpatine-not-create-anakin-skywalker/ I retract my statement, though that was before they made this clarification so was only going by what we knew at the time. Still don’t see the issue with Palpatine being able to make a being with Snoke’s power. With everything we’ve seen it’s hardly the most unrealistic thing done in Star Wars.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 29, 2019 6:10:14 GMT
I retract my statement, though that was before they made this clarification so was only going by what we knew at the time. Still don’t see the issue with Palpatine being able to make a being with Snoke’s power. With everything we’ve seen it’s hardly the most unrealistic thing done in Star Wars. Timeline wise after Revenge of The Sith it would make sense for Palpatine to discover the secrets to his master's powers. He potentially has 30-50 years to do so. The critics should only take issue with a lack of build up for the reveal from TFA or TLJ.
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Post by Hier0phant on Dec 29, 2019 16:25:16 GMT
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Dec 29, 2019 17:40:47 GMT
My biggest problem with the new trilogy lore-wise is how powerful untrained Force sensitive people are, Rey, the kid at the end of TLJ, (and maybe Finn?).
Before, if a person was untrained, the best they could do was have really good reflexes, and good intuition on how to fix stuff. This is how we find Anakin and Luke originally. Anakin has to be trained for years from childhood to adolescence, and Luke had to get 2 years of Obi-Wan force ghost training, and even then could barely get his lightsaber to leap into his hand on Hoth.
The only explanation I have for Rey is that in the 10 days between the beginning of TFA and the end of TLJ, after she realizes intuitively that she can resist Kylo's interrogation (gotta be some kinda Stockholm syndrome there), because she was such a fangirl of the history of Luke and the Rebellion, she does not have to be convinced of what is possible with the Force in the way Luke was, and so it is easier for her to start mind controlling Storm Troopers, etc.
The kid at the end of TLJ - I have no idea how to explain that.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 29, 2019 17:53:55 GMT
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 29, 2019 18:44:30 GMT
Good video.
It would have been nice to see Rey go dark at the end of RoS, I like fallen characters and hers would have been interesting in a next movie.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 29, 2019 18:54:38 GMT
Good video.
It would have been nice to see Rey go dark at the end of RoS, I like fallen characters and hers would have been interesting in a next movie.
its funny I loved Danny going evil but I don't think my heart could've taken Daisy I mean Rey breaking bad. It wouldn't have been good... But there was a lot of set up for it and the mind does boggle at the possibilities if Rey had taken Palp up on his offer. Would she have become Empress? Would Kylo have continued his path of redemption or would he have fallen again because the woman who helped redeem him in a small way (and the woman he low key loves) has fallen herself? Would she be able to be redeemed later? Could they perform a sort of Jedi excorcism? The mind boggles, probably only in fanfiction...which I've been thinking about writing.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 29, 2019 19:03:40 GMT
Pretty much exactly what I've been saying. Only posting it because the ending and his closing statements was quite elegant.
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Post by mybudgee on Dec 30, 2019 1:53:02 GMT
[snip] Pretty much exactly what I've been saying. Only posting it because the ending and his closing statements was quite elegant. It's almost the new year & this is the dumbest shit I have seen all year long
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 30, 2019 2:08:40 GMT
Good video.
It would have been nice to see Rey go dark at the end of RoS, I like fallen characters and hers would have been interesting in a next movie.
its funny I loved Danny going evil but I don't think my heart could've taken Daisy I mean Rey breaking bad. It wouldn't have been good... But there was a lot of set up for it and the mind does boggle at the possibilities if Rey had taken Palp up on his offer. Would she have become Empress? Would Kylo have continued his path of redemption or would he have fallen again because the woman who helped redeem him in a small way (and the woman he low key loves) has fallen herself? Would she be able to be redeemed later? Could they perform a sort of Jedi excorcism? The mind boggles, probably only in fanfiction...which I've been thinking about writing. Rey has been dancing on the edge of the dark side abyss throughout RoS. All it would have taken was a little push, which she came close to.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 30, 2019 2:13:55 GMT
[snip] Pretty much exactly what I've been saying. Only posting it because the ending and his closing statements was quite elegant. It's almost the new year & this is the dumbest shit I have seen all year long I probably have one more for you I now think that Episodes VIII and IX really has made the Skywalker Saga better as a whole retroactively. The exclamation point on Jedi Hubris not a bit of bad writing but the entire point, just badly executed, the galaxy moving on from these generation long wars, the Jedi getting stripped of its arrogance (hopefully) and the Sith...well the Sith have probably been stopped, at least for now. its funny I loved Danny going evil but I don't think my heart could've taken Daisy I mean Rey breaking bad. It wouldn't have been good... But there was a lot of set up for it and the mind does boggle at the possibilities if Rey had taken Palp up on his offer. Would she have become Empress? Would Kylo have continued his path of redemption or would he have fallen again because the woman who helped redeem him in a small way (and the woman he low key loves) has fallen herself? Would she be able to be redeemed later? Could they perform a sort of Jedi excorcism? The mind boggles, probably only in fanfiction...which I've been thinking about writing. Rey has been dancing on the edge of the dark side abyss throughout RoS. All it would have taken was a little push, which she came close to. I'd like to think that the only thing that saved her in the end was Kylo showing up, but not just his mere presence but his force presence being 'purified', one of the good guys, gave her a life lign...that bit of hope. Actually that whole scene when you get down to it is almost a direct mirror of the one from Last Jedi.
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docsteely
N6
Retired Birthday Wizard
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Retired Birthday Wizard
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docsteely
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by docsteely on Dec 30, 2019 2:45:38 GMT
[snip] Pretty much exactly what I've been saying. Only posting it because the ending and his closing statements was quite elegant. It's almost the new year & this is the dumbest shit I have seen all year long Was trying to find in the OT where exactly did Obi Wan or Yoda ask Luke to kill Vader, as this "elegant statement" person in that video says. Unless confront or conquer (Yoda) or face (Obi Wan) are always equivalent to kill, I could not find it anywhere... And the irony is that Luke finds the way to conquer both the Emperor and his father, without killing them. P.S. To be turned by the Last Dumpster fire into this: and this:
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 30, 2019 2:51:57 GMT
It's almost the new year & this is the dumbest shit I have seen all year long Was trying to find in the OT where exactly did Obi Wan or Yoda ask Luke to kill Vader, as this "elegant statement" person in that video says. Unless confront or conquer (Yoda) or face (Obi Wan) are always equivalent to kill, I could not find it anywhere... And the irony is that Luke finds the way to conquer both the Emperor and his father, without killing them. It doesn't exist, that's why you are having difficulty finding it.
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