inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 3:20:50 GMT
Except Rey knew the Jedi could make boulders float...a line she repeated to herself before she did it. Luke knew that too. And in ESB,m despite having years more experience than Rey in The Last Dumpster Fire, he could barely move his lightsaber. At Rey's stage of "training" he was still getting zapped by a training droid wheras she's carving Imperial Guard into steaks! exactly. The only thing I'll agree with is pulling the X-Wing out without incident. The rest she would've had trouble with. I find the idea of her being able to beat Vader in Episode 4 without training to be especially amusing considering Luke held her off in Episode 8 with nothing more then a tree branch. Actually I'll even give you her not being arrogant either. But the point is all you are talking about is physical abilities, not her mental state or her growth as a person...going from a deeply flawed individual to a more complete person. I mean I've decided all this arguing over definitions is pointless. She's a Mary Sue, fine. But she is also a deeply flawed, yet sympathetic character. She is interesting, well written and portrayed wonderfully by Daisy Ridley. She beat up Kylo in the first movie having never touched a lightsaber before. This is after she overpowered him for lightsaber to begin with. The same person who stopped a blaster bolt, and held a conversation with it suspended in air to start the movie. She overpowered this person for a lightsaber, and then beat him down with it barely hours after she found out she could use the force. So yeah, it would have been like Luke taking up Obi Wan's lightsaber and beating the crap out of Vader. What flaws did she have in the first two movies? The stick duel ended with Luke on the ground explaining his actions to Rey, and Rey lecturing him about how Kylo wasn't completely gone, and that he could be saved. Rey also overpowered Kylo when he tried to probe her mind in TFA, and out of nowhere casually uses the jedi mind trick on two sentient beings which contrasts Anakin's struggles to properly utilize the skill against non sentient animals. Mind you Anakin force Jesus Skywalker had a higher midichlorian count than Yoda while Palpatine gloated with glee that Anakin would surpass him in power, yet he still struggled in his training. What makes Rey's portrayals in TFA and TLJ so jarring is that this is Disney canon too.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 3:42:32 GMT
The Japanese fans were lucky bastards...
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 30, 2024 9:31:26 GMT
35,124
colfoley
18,367
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 31, 2019 3:50:08 GMT
Why are the Japanese so lucky? We got those books here in the States, they were pretty good...for the most part.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 4:01:30 GMT
Why are the Japanese so lucky? We got those books here in the States, they were pretty good...for the most part. Nah the Japanese novel covers were unique collectible full spreads that were illustrated by the Three Kingdoms (Koei) artist Tsuyoshi Nagano while the US covers were generic.
|
|
docsteely
N6
Retired Birthday Wizard
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: docsteely/HKyouma-san
XBL Gamertag: docsteely
PSN: docsteely
Posts: 5,528 Likes: 23,188
inherit
Retired Birthday Wizard
386
0
Sept 27, 2024 3:17:21 GMT
23,188
docsteely
5,528
August 2016
docsteely
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
docsteely/HKyouma-san
docsteely
docsteely
|
Post by docsteely on Dec 31, 2019 4:03:17 GMT
That's why he succeeds where others fail...
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 4:06:46 GMT
Some samples of Tsuyoshi Nagano's art and why i'm envious.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 4:13:24 GMT
Luke before Jacen turned him into an incel.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 30, 2024 9:31:26 GMT
35,124
colfoley
18,367
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 31, 2019 4:19:00 GMT
Mara Jade was always very fetching.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 31, 2019 4:21:09 GMT
Why are the Japanese so lucky? We got those books here in the States, they were pretty good...for the most part. Kinda hit and miss, like much of the EU. My main problem is it tried to make the Star Wars setting darker and edgier than it had been traditionally. Started thinking of the Yuuzon Vong War as "Star Wars Ragnarok"
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 4:41:27 GMT
Art by Noriyoshi Ohrai who's famous for TESB's international poster, Heisei Godzilla posters and Metal Gear artwork.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 4:44:56 GMT
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 4:49:46 GMT
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 31, 2019 5:25:45 GMT
Why are the Japanese so lucky? We got those books here in the States, they were pretty good...for the most part. Kinda hit and miss, like much of the EU. Indeed. Some didn't like the character, and their story arc but i did and her death was just ugh.
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Dec 31, 2019 6:02:32 GMT
Pretty sure I have this poster somewhere. A reprint obviously.
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Dec 31, 2019 6:31:51 GMT
I feel like this last movie TRoS does a disservice to common sense. For instance, as the crash site of the Death Star wreck should have a "never again" monument, along with sales kiosks selling touristy crap (cuz capitalists), there should be an sith-pedia article or something on the galactic extranet on Emperor Palpatine:
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Sept 29, 2024 9:16:20 GMT
31,554
Hanako Ikezawa
22,978
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 31, 2019 7:02:47 GMT
I feel like this last movie TRoS does a disservice to common sense. For instance, as the crash site of the Death Star wreck should have a "never again" monument, along with sales kiosks selling touristy crap (cuz capitalists), there should be an sith-pedia article or something on the galactic extranet on Emperor Palpatine: My guess is the area where the Death Star was destroyed is strong with the Dark Side, causing people to not want to get near it. We see other places like this, for example Dathomir.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Dec 31, 2019 10:34:33 GMT
She beat up Kylo in the first movie having never touched a lightsaber before. This is after she overpowered him for lightsaber to begin with. The same person who stopped a blaster bolt, and held a conversation with it suspended in air to start the movie. She overpowered this person for a lightsaber, and then beat him down with it barely hours after she found out she could use the force. So yeah, it would have been like Luke taking up Obi Wan's lightsaber and beating the crap out of Vader. What flaws did she have in the first two movies? The stick duel ended with Luke on the ground explaining his actions to Rey, and Rey lecturing him about how Kylo wasn't completely gone, and that he could be saved. Plenty of examples were given to why Rey won that fight, including in the movie itself. Vader was always MUCH more powerful in the Force and trained then Kylo Ren was, even at his most diminished capacity. Vader would have snapped her like a twig, not to mention all the other Stormtroopers around there. The stick duel ended that way because Rey is much more physically younger then Luke, in her prime so to speak, and kind of curb checked him into the rocks. Fact was though Luke was holding his own against her despite barely using the Force until she grabbed his lightsaber. Had he unleashed his full power there, IE he was REALLY fighting her, he would've snapped her like a twig. I've gone into great detail on her flaws but to be brief: Anger issues, identity issues, looking for a 'savior'/ someone to give her life meaning...to the point she is essentially willing to sell herself into virtual slavery, to the point she is willing to fall into a rather obvious trap, and to the point she also is quite angry and bitter at the world which also causes her issues in Episode IX. Premptive edit: I should actually say that all the above applies to Episode VII-VIII Rey. Episode IX Rey, IE the one who is fully trained and fully 'balanced' might actually be able to put up a much better fight against Anakin/Vader or Luke at the height of their respective powers. If physical abilities, or age mattered when using the force, then every person Yoda fought would have curb stomped him. That was the whole idea of what Yoda was telling Luke on Degobah. Don't just me by me size, my ally is the force. Rocks and the X-wing are no different when it comes to the force. You know the kind of lessons Rey never got until I'm going to assume between the last two movies. She just came out of the gate using the force like a champ. When it's this easy to learn the force, you pretty much diminish what you've built up the Jedi and the force to be through the other movies. The whole idea of it being a life long commitment, and having to go from padawan to Jedi Knight to Master. How it's harder to start as a adult, as opposed to a child. When someone becomes that powerful with no training whatsoever in a matter of hours or days it just diminishes what Jedi were built up to be. Especially when through six movies you're shown two of the most powerful Jedi ever taking years to get to where she was.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Dec 31, 2019 10:34:47 GMT
Luke knew that too. And in ESB,m despite having years more experience than Rey in The Last Dumpster Fire, he could barely move his lightsaber. At Rey's stage of "training" he was still getting zapped by a training droid wheras she's carving Imperial Guard into steaks! She beat up Kylo in the first movie having never touched a lightsaber before. This is after she overpowered him for lightsaber to begin with. The same person who stopped a blaster bolt, and held a conversation with it suspended in air to start the movie. She overpowered this person for a lightsaber, and then beat him down with it barely hours after she found out she could use the force. So yeah, it would have been like Luke taking up Obi Wan's lightsaber and beating the crap out of Vader. What flaws did she have in the first two movies? The stick duel ended with Luke on the ground explaining his actions to Rey, and Rey lecturing him about how Kylo wasn't completely gone, and that he could be saved. Rey also overpowered Kylo when he tried to probe her mind in TFA, and out of nowhere casually uses the jedi mind trick on two sentient beings which contrasts Anakin's struggles to properly utilize the skill against non sentient animals. Mind you Anakin force Jesus Skywalker had a higher midichlorian count than Yoda while Palpatine gloated with glee that Anakin would surpass him in power, yet he still struggled in his training. What makes Rey's portrayals in TFA and TLJ so jarring is that this is Disney canon too. Not to mention that pretty much every other Jedi we've seen mind trick something they had to be looking at the target and wave their hand in front, while Rey, since she's Rey, mindtricked a guard standing behind her from across the room, with her hands in restraints.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Dec 31, 2019 11:21:46 GMT
Since we're talking about the force, I really didn't like how powerful the made force users in this movie. They may as well have made them God like beings.
- Healing people, even with mortal injuries - Bringing people back to life - Want to find something, no problem, just reach out a grab something from where they are no matter where it is in the galaxy. - Pull transports out the sky, or just blow them up with force lightning - Disable an entire fleet with force lightning - Suck the life force and power out of other force users. Begs the question on why Palpatine tried to kill Luke when he wouldn't turn. He should have siphoned him off instead and grown more powerful. - Want to have a lightsaber duel with someone anywhere in the galaxy? The force has you covered there as well allowing for Online PVP multiplayer.
It got to the point where I was sitting there like why don't they just let him walk through to wherever she is at this point.
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Dec 31, 2019 12:34:59 GMT
Plenty of examples were given to why Rey won that fight, including in the movie itself. Vader was always MUCH more powerful in the Force and trained then Kylo Ren was, even at his most diminished capacity. Vader would have snapped her like a twig, not to mention all the other Stormtroopers around there. The stick duel ended that way because Rey is much more physically younger then Luke, in her prime so to speak, and kind of curb checked him into the rocks. Fact was though Luke was holding his own against her despite barely using the Force until she grabbed his lightsaber. Had he unleashed his full power there, IE he was REALLY fighting her, he would've snapped her like a twig. I've gone into great detail on her flaws but to be brief: Anger issues, identity issues, looking for a 'savior'/ someone to give her life meaning...to the point she is essentially willing to sell herself into virtual slavery, to the point she is willing to fall into a rather obvious trap, and to the point she also is quite angry and bitter at the world which also causes her issues in Episode IX. Premptive edit: I should actually say that all the above applies to Episode VII-VIII Rey. Episode IX Rey, IE the one who is fully trained and fully 'balanced' might actually be able to put up a much better fight against Anakin/Vader or Luke at the height of their respective powers. If physical abilities, or age mattered when using the force, then every person Yoda fought would have curb stomped him. That was the whole idea of what Yoda was telling Luke on Degobah. Don't just me by me size, my ally is the force. Rocks and the X-wing are no different when it comes to the force. You know the kind of lessons Rey never got until I'm going to assume between the last two movies. She just came out of the gate using the force like a champ. When it's this easy to learn the force, you pretty much diminish what you've built up the Jedi and the force to be through the other movies. The whole idea of it being a life long commitment, and having to go from padawan to Jedi Knight to Master. How it's harder to start as a adult, as opposed to a child. When someone becomes that powerful with no training whatsoever in a matter of hours or days it just diminishes what Jedi were built up to be. Especially when through six movies you're shown two of the most powerful Jedi ever taking years to get to where she was. Pretty sure I said this at some point MUCH earlier in the thread when TLJ was released, but Rey's experience with the Force seems very different to the other Force users we have encountered. Every other Force user started out basically with intuition and that was it. They had to be trained to reach out to control or to allow the Force to flow through them to access its power. Rey describes something inside her awakened and trying to get out, that she is afraid of and is trying to control - almost like some sort of spiritual/demon possession. I guess this "thing" inside her is triggered after she intuitively resists Kylo during his mind probe and manages to reverse it on him. Maybe Emperor Palpatine had some sort of connection to her that he was trying to use to resurrect himself that was fueling her Force powers once she was awakened, the same one he said that would allow him to pass into her if she struck him down - dunno. It is one of the many things left unexplained in this movie.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Dec 31, 2019 13:18:24 GMT
If physical abilities, or age mattered when using the force, then every person Yoda fought would have curb stomped him. That was the whole idea of what Yoda was telling Luke on Degobah. Don't just me by me size, my ally is the force. Rocks and the X-wing are no different when it comes to the force. You know the kind of lessons Rey never got until I'm going to assume between the last two movies. She just came out of the gate using the force like a champ. When it's this easy to learn the force, you pretty much diminish what you've built up the Jedi and the force to be through the other movies. The whole idea of it being a life long commitment, and having to go from padawan to Jedi Knight to Master. How it's harder to start as a adult, as opposed to a child. When someone becomes that powerful with no training whatsoever in a matter of hours or days it just diminishes what Jedi were built up to be. Especially when through six movies you're shown two of the most powerful Jedi ever taking years to get to where she was. Pretty sure I said this at some point MUCH earlier in the thread when TLJ was released, but Rey's experience with the Force seems very different to the other Force users we have encountered. Every other Force user started out basically with intuition and that was it. They had to be trained to reach out to control or to allow the Force to flow through them to access its power. Rey describes something inside her awakened and trying to get out, that she is afraid of and is trying to control - almost like some sort of spiritual/demon possession. I guess this "thing" inside her is triggered after she intuitively resists Kylo during his mind probe and manages to reverse it on him. Maybe Emperor Palpatine had some sort of connection to her that he was trying to use to resurrect himself that was fueling her Force powers once she was awakened, the same one he said that would allow him to pass into her if she struck him down - dunno. It is one of the many things left unexplained in this movie.
But this is my point about the poor story telling and lack of an overarching plan at the start of the trilogy. If they had done with Rey over the course of the three movies what they tried to do in TROS but didn't have time to fully flesh out she would have been a much better and more believable character from the start. But they couldn't because Palpatine wasn't meant to be in from the start. They threw him in at the end and tried to make it work.
In the Last Jedi, it makes even less sense that she could walk into the cave where the dark side was present and not feel anything being Palpatine's granddaughter. If Luke and Leia supposedly knew she was Palpatine's granddaughter, it makes no sense they both acted like they had no idea who she was when they met, and Luke, My God. Him letting her leave the island without telling her who she was or offering any training knowing who she was just amounts to a total failing on his part, negligence to an extreme level.
She's talking about saving Kylo, Luke should have been like you need to worry about yourself. Especially considering how he personally felt when Obi-Wan withheld the same information from him. He knew more than anyone what she needed and just let her go. Just imagine how good that movie could have been with this dynamic. What character development Rey could have received. How many fewer plot holes there would have been.
They did a lot of the characters in the trilogy a disservice as far as character development. Rey wasn't alone in suffering from a lack of planning the trilogy out. As far as the idea of her being different in some way, Anakin was conceived by the force and still had to train. If anyone would have been different it would have been him.
If they wanted to go the Revan route and say she was a powerful force user and they found out she was Palpatine's grandaughter, wiped her memory and stuck her on Jakku, I maybe could have gone with it. It awakening when she touched a Jedi lightsaber, when she was descendant of a Sith doesn't really make any sense though. But at the end of the day, knowledge of the force is knowledge of the force, and she had none at the start of the first movie. The force has always been portrayed as being in the mind, and that the mind needed training to be calm in order to commune with it.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 31, 2019 14:21:36 GMT
Pretty sure I said this at some point MUCH earlier in the thread when TLJ was released, but Rey's experience with the Force seems very different to the other Force users we have encountered. Every other Force user started out basically with intuition and that was it. They had to be trained to reach out to control or to allow the Force to flow through them to access its power. Rey describes something inside her awakened and trying to get out, that she is afraid of and is trying to control - almost like some sort of spiritual/demon possession. I guess this "thing" inside her is triggered after she intuitively resists Kylo during his mind probe and manages to reverse it on him. Maybe Emperor Palpatine had some sort of connection to her that he was trying to use to resurrect himself that was fueling her Force powers once she was awakened, the same one he said that would allow him to pass into her if she struck him down - dunno. It is one of the many things left unexplained in this movie.
But this is my point about the poor story telling and lack of an overarching plan at the start of the trilogy. If they had done with Rey over the course of the three movies what they tried to do in TROS but didn't have time to fully flesh out she would have been a much better and more believable character from the start. But they couldn't because Palpatine wasn't meant to be in from the start. They threw him in at the end and tried to make it work.
In the Last Jedi, it makes even less sense that she could walk into the cave where the dark side was present and not feel anything being Palpatine's granddaughter. If Luke and Leia supposedly knew she was Palpatine's granddaughter, it makes no sense they both acted like they had no idea who she was when they met, and Luke, My God. Him letting her leave the island without telling her who she was or offering any training knowing who she was just amounts to a total failing on his part, negligence to an extreme level.
She's talking about saving Kylo, Luke should have been like you need to worry about yourself. Especially considering how he personally felt when Obi-Wan withheld the same information from him. He knew more than anyone what she needed and just let her go. Just imagine how good that movie could have been with this dynamic. What character development Rey could have received. How many fewer plot holes there would have been.
They did a lot of the characters in the trilogy a disservice as far as character development. Rey wasn't alone in suffering from a lack of planning the trilogy out. As far as the idea of her being different in some way, Anakin was conceived by the force and still had to train. If anyone would have been different it would have been him.
If they wanted to go the Revan route and say she was a powerful force user and they found out she was Palpatine's grandaughter, wiped her memory and stuck her on Jakku, I maybe could have gone with it. It awakening when she touched a Jedi lightsaber, when she was descendant of a Sith doesn't really make any sense though. But at the end of the day, knowledge of the force is knowledge of the force, and she had none at the start of the first movie. The force has always been portrayed as being in the mind, and that the mind needed training to be calm in order to commune with it.
As Vader would say:
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Dec 31, 2019 15:18:22 GMT
But this is my point about the poor story telling and lack of an overarching plan at the start of the trilogy. If they had done with Rey over the course of the three movies what they tried to do in TROS but didn't have time to fully flesh out she would have been a much better and more believable character from the start. But they couldn't because Palpatine wasn't meant to be in from the start. They threw him in at the end and tried to make it work.
In the Last Jedi, it makes even less sense that she could walk into the cave where the dark side was present and not feel anything being Palpatine's granddaughter. If Luke and Leia supposedly knew she was Palpatine's granddaughter, it makes no sense they both acted like they had no idea who she was when they met, and Luke, My God. Him letting her leave the island without telling her who she was or offering any training knowing who she was just amounts to a total failing on his part, negligence to an extreme level.
She's talking about saving Kylo, Luke should have been like you need to worry about yourself. Especially considering how he personally felt when Obi-Wan withheld the same information from him. He knew more than anyone what she needed and just let her go. Just imagine how good that movie could have been with this dynamic. What character development Rey could have received. How many fewer plot holes there would have been.
They did a lot of the characters in the trilogy a disservice as far as character development. Rey wasn't alone in suffering from a lack of planning the trilogy out. As far as the idea of her being different in some way, Anakin was conceived by the force and still had to train. If anyone would have been different it would have been him.
If they wanted to go the Revan route and say she was a powerful force user and they found out she was Palpatine's grandaughter, wiped her memory and stuck her on Jakku, I maybe could have gone with it. It awakening when she touched a Jedi lightsaber, when she was descendant of a Sith doesn't really make any sense though. But at the end of the day, knowledge of the force is knowledge of the force, and she had none at the start of the first movie. The force has always been portrayed as being in the mind, and that the mind needed training to be calm in order to commune with it.
As Vader would say: Luke only knew Rey in TLJ for maybe 2 days. He probably didn't know of her lineage until he became one with the Force, if not much much later.
|
|
docsteely
N6
Retired Birthday Wizard
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: docsteely/HKyouma-san
XBL Gamertag: docsteely
PSN: docsteely
Posts: 5,528 Likes: 23,188
inherit
Retired Birthday Wizard
386
0
Sept 27, 2024 3:17:21 GMT
23,188
docsteely
5,528
August 2016
docsteely
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
docsteely/HKyouma-san
docsteely
docsteely
|
Post by docsteely on Dec 31, 2019 17:02:54 GMT
... The force has always been portrayed as being in the mind, and that the mind needed training to be calm in order to commune with it.
Not the same for Sith. They did not view the Force as something to commune with, but rather as a tool to be used and they were not calm afaicr, on the contrary.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Dec 31, 2019 17:06:31 GMT
As Vader would say: Luke only knew Rey in TLJ for maybe 2 days. He probably didn't know of her lineage until he became one with the Force, if not much much later. When exactly would this have happened, and how? Luke said he knew and Leia did as well. Between Leia leading the resistance and training Rey, and Luke being a force ghost, when would they have unraveled this?
It's more logical that Luke would have discovered this ten years earlier when he and Lando were looking looking for Exogul. They were on the trail of a Jedi hunter with ties to Exogul. Obvious questions would have been, who is this Jedi? Why do they want them? Why do they need to bring them to Exogul? What or who is on Exogul requesting this? Unraveling it all during this time would have made much more sense.
But, as I think about this. When would Luke and Lando have even done this? If Luke closed his school and went into exile feeling that he failed, no longer caring about Jedi affairs. When did he all of a sudden decide that he does care about Jedi/Sith affairs and go looking into all of this? Then after the trail goes cold, knowing that there are things in the works on a sith planet he just leaves the galaxy to it's fate. He and Lando tell no one anything at all about what they found out.
Like I said in another post. The more I think about this film, the more the story makes no sense whatsoever. Trying to add the Palpatine story after the fact not only makes the story of this movie chuck full or plot holes. It retroactively does the same thing to the previous two.
|
|