Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Jan 7, 2020 5:45:25 GMT
... getting it off the ground in a few seconds and then winning a dogfight against trained military fighters with a broken turret isn't novice or even journeyman flying, and you know it. ... Did you know that I don't actually know how to fly the Millenium Falcon. Weird right? ... See, now you're calling her piloting "self-explanatory" for why it's okay for her to suddenly manifest it. ... Yes, I'm calling the scenes, for the most part, self-explanatory. ... How exactly is it self-explanatory for a scavenger with no intention of leaving her home to just so happen to be an expert spaceship pilot? ... I'm not sure where I said she is "an expert spaceship pilot" or why that is assumed, but this is the explanation from the scenes: - The "We've got one" is an explanation that she is a spaceship pilot. - Her pointing to the locations on the Falcon as they board indicates she has some familiarity with the ship, and how it works. - Her muttering to herself during the power-up and the crappy takeoff means she is not used to flying that particular ship. - The fact that she can fly after take-off means she probably has some experience with that TYPE of ship. - The fact that she is sweating and has an alarmed look on her face during most of the flight sequence means she is desperate, unsure of her ability, and unsure if what she is doing will work. - The fact that the complex moves work to even her incredulity afterwards means she probably has some natural skill as a pilot that she didn't realize, to which we later discover is enhanced by Force sensitivity. See? Self-explanatory. ... But someone we've known for a little while and seen in their daily life as a plumber suddenly performing a tracheotomy with the words "I'm a nurse" requires at least a short explanation for how they went from nurse to plumber, and that explanation better be good, otherwise it's just an unbelievable and weird twist that breaks the audience's suspension of disbelief. … Disagree completely. I certainly wouldn't mind more backstory, but it is hardly required for the story in The Force Awakens.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jan 7, 2020 6:51:12 GMT
Okay so after she beat him up and robbed him... While Yoda watched on with barely restrained glee.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 5:01:51 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2020 7:03:48 GMT
Yoda= Loki
|
|
inherit
11346
0
Sept 28, 2024 22:23:05 GMT
1,439
skekSil
1,200
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Jan 7, 2020 12:45:29 GMT
What is absurd is saying that this one character is unlikely to be a pilot and needs to be pre-established as one in a universe were everyone, including a 9 year old kid, who never piloted a spaceship, can pilot a spaceship. It has been established that Luke WAS a pilot. What is unclear is how familiar he'd be with X-Wing controls. Its not just controls. Pilot should know its characteristics but also have a "feel" of a ship. What its acceleration, turn rate, how fast can it roll, how much will it drift on hard turns, will it get bumpy at some certain speeds, will its engine start dying when put in some specific regimes and so on. For combat pilot you also have to know military stuff: how to fly in formation, how to use radio(frequencies, call sighns, code words, what to say and what to listen) how to hit things, weapon characteristics, how to perform combat maneuvers, how to defend against attacks(arguably, none of X-wing pilots know how to do this). You cant know this stuff by having a quick rundown before a sortie to Death Star, you cant know it by flying a different ship with the same button layout. From realistic point of view none of the heroes should be able to fly their ships. Either we concede that all trilogies have a plot hole or we accept that Star Wars have different requirements to piloting ships and even a nine year old slave can do it with little preparation.Aren't you the one who asserted the training issue before? See above.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Jan 7, 2020 13:20:21 GMT
It has been established that Luke WAS a pilot. What is unclear is how familiar he'd be with X-Wing controls. Its not just controls. Pilot should know its characteristics but also have a "feel" of a ship. What its acceleration, turn rate, how fast can it roll, how much will it drift on hard turns, will it get bumpy at some certain speeds, will its engine start dying when put in some specific regimes and so on. For combat pilot you also have to know military stuff: how to fly in formation, how to use radio(frequencies, call sighns, code words, what to say and what to listen) how to hit things, weapon characteristics, how to perform combat maneuvers, how to defend against attacks(arguably, none of X-wing pilots know how to do this). You cant know this stuff by having a quick rundown before a sortie to Death Star, you cant know it by flying a different ship with the same button layout. From realistic point of view none of the heroes should be able to fly their ships. Either we concede that all trilogies have a plot hole or we accept that Star Wars have different requirements to piloting ships and even a nine year old slave can do it with little preparation.Aren't you the one who asserted the training issue before? See above. Did the nine year old really pilot the ship though? I would have to go watch it again, but the way I remember it was that the ships were all taken into space on autopilot. He tells R2 to take it off auto pilot, and then he says lets try and go this way and the ship starts rolling out of the control as soon as he moves the controls. Then he gets shot down right after that. I don't really recall him flying the ship in any kind of competent way.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Jan 7, 2020 13:44:15 GMT
One of the issues with Rey is that they do a much poorer job of laying the groundwork for her character.
For Luke you had him talking about being a pilot, Obi-Wan saying he's heard he's become quite a pilot. Meaning that he must be known around those parts as a good pilot. You have him working on droids, his uncle talking about him doing chores, and how he needs him for harvest. Showing that Luke is good with hands, and knows how to work on things. He talks about wanting to into town and get some power converters and his uncle says that he can mess around with his friends later. So he comes across as just a regular teenager. They set him up before he entered the main events of the story.
Anakin was the same way. They spent pretty much the entire movie laying his character out. He didn't even actively use the force in the first movie. You had his mother talking about how he was conceived, Qui-Gon talking about traits that he probably got from being force sensitive. The whole thing with sending the midiclorian count the Obi-Wan. He worked in Watoo's shop to show that he was handy with things, and he was trying to build C-3PO at home. Even though he wasn't nearly finished it showed he had aptitude for it. This all happened before you got into anything with Darth Maul, or any of the movies conflict involving him.
Rey on the other hand nothing. You see her scavenging. This really only shows that she knows which parts of an object are valuable, but it gives nothing as far as fixing things.
- She brings the salvage back, and starts watching right in front on an old lady doing hers as well. How hard would it have been to have this woman talk to her, offer some insight into Rey. She was an old lady so she could easily have been someone who sees Rey there all the time, or remembered her from when she was a child.
She goes home to the AT-AT. How hard would it have been to show that she had upgraded it to be a good living space, as opposed to just living in wreckage? Kind of like the character did in Star Trek Beyond. Show something that she's building, that she comes home and uses a part she found while scavenging to upgrade.
-They focus on this flower, what was the context. Did her mother like these type of flowers? Did she just want something to take care of? What was it.
- They focus on a doll, which looks like it's in a pilot jumpsuit. What is the context of this? Was he father or mother a pilot? Did she want to be a pilot? Was this something one of her parents gave to her when she was a child? What?
- She goes outside and puts on a pilots helmet. Why? Does she dream of being a pilot? Is this something that she just found while out? Did it belong to someone?
How hard would it have been to throw in some flashbacks? Conversations with her parents as a kid to give some insight into who they were, and how that may have shaped who she is. They literally gave nothing. How hard would it have been to have her working in the shop of the guy the was turning in the salvage for, or someone else?
It makes no sense that she would know how to fly. Because what's portrayed is that she's been dirt poor and has been living alone. When would she have ever had access to a ship where she learned to fly. So when she enters into the action and just says "I'm a pilot," people are like how.
She lives alone, and really doesn't work with droids but she can talk to BB8 immediately. In comparison to Luke, who works with droids all the time, and still needed C-3PO to translate so he could understand R2.
They just did a poor job setting up her character. Someone earlier asked what was the remedy to just having Rey say I'm a pilot. The remedy was laying some groundwork before she entered into the action, and the events of the story like they did in the previous trilogies.
|
|
inherit
11346
0
Sept 28, 2024 22:23:05 GMT
1,439
skekSil
1,200
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Jan 7, 2020 15:57:35 GMT
Its not just controls. Pilot should know its characteristics but also have a "feel" of a ship. What its acceleration, turn rate, how fast can it roll, how much will it drift on hard turns, will it get bumpy at some certain speeds, will its engine start dying when put in some specific regimes and so on. For combat pilot you also have to know military stuff: how to fly in formation, how to use radio(frequencies, call sighns, code words, what to say and what to listen) how to hit things, weapon characteristics, how to perform combat maneuvers, how to defend against attacks(arguably, none of X-wing pilots know how to do this). You cant know this stuff by having a quick rundown before a sortie to Death Star, you cant know it by flying a different ship with the same button layout. From realistic point of view none of the heroes should be able to fly their ships. Either we concede that all trilogies have a plot hole or we accept that Star Wars have different requirements to piloting ships and even a nine year old slave can do it with little preparation.See above. Did the nine year old really pilot the ship though? I would have to go watch it again, but the way I remember it was that the ships were all taken into space on autopilot. He tells R2 to take it off auto pilot, and then he says lets try and go this way and the ship starts rolling out of the control as soon as he moves the controls. Then he gets shot down right after that. I don't really recall him flying the ship in any kind of competent way. Well then, rewatch those scenes again. He turns off autopilot, gets chased by several droid fighters, evading them for some time successfuly, then gets shot and flies into battleship hangar were he manages to not slam into several obstcles on high speed. After he blows up the reactor he flies out of hangar, outranning a blastwave and returs back to planet with the rest of Naboo fighters. Id say he did spectacularly good for a kid who had never flown a spaceship. One of the issues with Rey is that they do a much poorer job of laying the groundwork for her character. Im not denying that they did less work to establish her skill set. However I believe that previous 6 movies have given us enough insight into what skills a person living in SW galaxy can have. Luke is an average farm boy in the middle of nowhere, Anakin is a small kid, a slave, also in a middle of nowhere, yet they both show technical and piloting skill beyond what we would expect from a typical person on Earth. Anakin was the same way. They spent pretty much the entire movie laying his character out. ... He worked in Watoo's shop to show that he was handy with things, and he was trying to build C-3PO at home. Even though he wasn't nearly finished it showed he had aptitude for it. Dude he is a small boy that can build a droid with strong AI as well as a pod-racer. Yet no one is saying that he is some kind of genious. Smart, sure, but not genious. So it is reasonable to assume that THIS level of skill is not out of the ordinary for a skilled technician of a slightly higher age than Anakin. If this is a level of good technitian then what is a level of an average person with no particular technical skills? Leia is a princess, yet she is helping fix Millenium Falcon in ESB. Rey on the other hand nothing. You see her scavenging. This really only shows that she knows which parts of an object are valuable, but it gives nothing as far as fixing things. She has to know where to find them, how take them out of wreckage safely, without getting killed by some still operational machinnery, energy system or weaponry, how to dismantle it without breaking it, how to distinguish between a good part and a broken one, how to fix minor problems to increase its value. When would she have ever had access to a ship where she learned to fly. So when she enters into the action and just says "I'm a pilot," people are like how. Anakin has flown his first spaceship just fine, as I have already mentioned. Falcon belonged to her boss by the way so she could know about the modifications that he made. In fact she may have helped him do it. She lives alone, and really doesn't work with droids but she can talk to BB8 immediately. In comparison to Luke, who works with droids all the time, and still needed C-3PO to translate so he could understand R2. There is loads of droids on downed Star Destroyers so its not unreasonable that she has experience interacting with them. And since, unlike Luke, she had no luxury of using a protocol droid to communicate with droids she learned their language.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 7, 2020 15:59:46 GMT
It has been established that Luke WAS a pilot. What is unclear is how familiar he'd be with X-Wing controls. Its not just controls. Pilot should know its characteristics but also have a "feel" of a ship. What its acceleration, turn rate, how fast can it roll, how much will it drift on hard turns, will it get bumpy at some certain speeds, will its engine start dying when put in some specific regimes and so on. For combat pilot you also have to know military stuff: how to fly in formation, how to use radio(frequencies, call sighns, code words, what to say and what to listen) how to hit things, weapon characteristics, how to perform combat maneuvers, how to defend against attacks(arguably, none of X-wing pilots know how to do this). You cant know this stuff by having a quick rundown before a sortie to Death Star, you cant know it by flying a different ship with the same button layout. From realistic point of view none of the heroes should be able to fly their ships. Either we concede that all trilogies have a plot hole or we accept that Star Wars have different requirements to piloting ships and even a nine year old slave can do it with little preparation.Aren't you the one who asserted the training issue before? See above. Ideally, yes. But in this case there was a MOON SIZED BATTLE STATION COMING TO KILL EVERYONE UP TO AND INCLUDING THE PLANET THEY WERE STANDING ON!!! All hands on deck time. So since they had a spare X-Wing, let's see if this farm boy can help a little..
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 7, 2020 16:00:05 GMT
|
|
inherit
11346
0
Sept 28, 2024 22:23:05 GMT
1,439
skekSil
1,200
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Jan 7, 2020 16:07:14 GMT
Its not just controls. Pilot should know its characteristics but also have a "feel" of a ship. What its acceleration, turn rate, how fast can it roll, how much will it drift on hard turns, will it get bumpy at some certain speeds, will its engine start dying when put in some specific regimes and so on. For combat pilot you also have to know military stuff: how to fly in formation, how to use radio(frequencies, call sighns, code words, what to say and what to listen) how to hit things, weapon characteristics, how to perform combat maneuvers, how to defend against attacks(arguably, none of X-wing pilots know how to do this). You cant know this stuff by having a quick rundown before a sortie to Death Star, you cant know it by flying a different ship with the same button layout. From realistic point of view none of the heroes should be able to fly their ships. Either we concede that all trilogies have a plot hole or we accept that Star Wars have different requirements to piloting ships and even a nine year old slave can do it with little preparation.See above. Ideally, yes. But in this case there was a MOON SIZED BATTLE STATION COMING TO KILL EVERYONE UP TO AND INCLUDING THE PLANET THEY WERE STANDING ON!!! All hands on deck time. So since they had a spare X-Wing, let's see if this farm boy can help a little.. No. He would be a liability, a distraction and even a danger to other pilots and a waste of resources. If they really had a spare fighter and no proper pilot for it they should have told him to ferry it to their back up base to save it in case their defence fails.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,551
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,551
Noxluxe
2,016
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Jan 7, 2020 16:08:19 GMT
I kinda buy it. Between her accent and her lightsaber fighting style - really aggressive with lots of thrusts, which we'd only ever seen characterize his before that - in The Force Awakens, and the fact that she's an immensely powerful human Force user outside the Skywalker dynasty, I remember that the theories that she might be his granddaughter or female clone or something seemed plausible even back then. Even though the idea that Sheev Palpatine had a kid we'd never heard about who apparently wasn't an evil shit was left woefully underexplored in Rise of Skywalker. No. He would be a liability, a distraction and even a danger to other pilots and a waste of resources. If they really had a spare fighter and no proper pilot for it they should have told him to ferry it to their back up base to save it in case their defence fails. Nah. Maybe during a normal sensitive job trying to avoid the Empire's notice, but in this case their cover was already as blown as it could be and they all knew it was a suicide mission and not to endanger it for anything, so people getting killed trying to save the new kid if he got into trouble wouldn't be a concern. And I don't remember any "back up bases". As the situation was presented it was either blow up the Death Star or the Rebels would be obliterated beyond the point of ever being a threat to the Empire again. Any additional fighter capable of getting to the shaft and delivering the payload, and at least spread enemy firepower that much thinner if not, would have been worth sending.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Jan 7, 2020 16:15:46 GMT
Did the nine year old really pilot the ship though? I would have to go watch it again, but the way I remember it was that the ships were all taken into space on autopilot. He tells R2 to take it off auto pilot, and then he says lets try and go this way and the ship starts rolling out of the control as soon as he moves the controls. Then he gets shot down right after that. I don't really recall him flying the ship in any kind of competent way. Well then, rewatch those scenes again. He turns off autopilot, gets chased by several droid fighters, evading them for some time successfuly, then gets shot and flies into battleship hangar were he manages to not slam into several obstcles on high speed. After he blows up the reactor he flies out of hangar, outranning a blastwave and returs back to planet with the rest of Naboo fighters. Id say he did spectacularly good for a kid who had never flown a spaceship. One of the issues with Rey is that they do a much poorer job of laying the groundwork for her character. Im not denying that they did less work to establish her skill set. However I believe that previous 6 movies have given us enough insight into what skills a person living in SW galaxy can have. Luke is an average farm boy in the middle of nowhere, Anakin is a small kid, a slave, also in a middle of nowhere, yet they both show technical and piloting skill beyond what we would expect from a typical person on Earth. Anakin was the same way. They spent pretty much the entire movie laying his character out. ... He worked in Watoo's shop to show that he was handy with things, and he was trying to build C-3PO at home. Even though he wasn't nearly finished it showed he had aptitude for it. Dude he is a small boy that can build a droid with strong AI as well as a pod-racer. Yet no one is saying that he is some kind of genious. Smart, sure, but not genious. So it is reasonable to assume that THIS level of skill is not out of the ordinary for a skilled technician of a slightly higher age than Anakin. If this is a level of good technitian then what is a level of an average person with no particular technical skills? Leia is a princess, yet she is helping fix Millenium Falcon in ESB. Rey on the other hand nothing. You see her scavenging. This really only shows that she knows which parts of an object are valuable, but it gives nothing as far as fixing things. She has to know where to find them, how take them out of wreckage safely, without getting killed by some still operational machinnery, energy system or weaponry, how to dismantle it without breaking it, how to distinguish between a good part and a broken one, how to fix minor problems to increase its value. When would she have ever had access to a ship where she learned to fly. So when she enters into the action and just says "I'm a pilot," people are like how. Anakin has flown his first spaceship just fine, as I have already mentioned. Falcon belonged to her boss by the way so she could know about the modifications that he made. In fact she may have helped him do it. She lives alone, and really doesn't work with droids but she can talk to BB8 immediately. In comparison to Luke, who works with droids all the time, and still needed C-3PO to translate so he could understand R2. There is loads of droids on downed Star Destroyers so its not unreasonable that she has experience interacting with them. And since, unlike Luke, she had no luxury of using a protocol droid to communicate with droids she learned their language.
They did far less establishing her character in general. Almost phoned in. They could have easily done any of the things I mentioned above.
As I said, Phantom Menace is not one I've watched many times.
Anakin and Luke have skills due to being around other people with skills. Working for them as a slave or helping out as a family member. The problem with Rey is that they spent so much time trying to show the Independent, I made it all by myself, I didn't need anyone character, that they didn't put anyone around her to flesh out her character. She lives alone. which is where any type pf flashback to someone teaching her something or telling her something would have helped. Even notes from someone that she keeps and could have read. They didn't even try.
As far as the droids. You're saying that there are loads of functioning droids of downed Star Destroyers decades after the war?
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 7, 2020 16:43:15 GMT
Ideally, yes. But in this case there was a MOON SIZED BATTLE STATION COMING TO KILL EVERYONE UP TO AND INCLUDING THE PLANET THEY WERE STANDING ON!!! All hands on deck time. So since they had a spare X-Wing, let's see if this farm boy can help a little.. No. He would be a liability, a distraction and even a danger to other pilots and a waste of resources. If they really had a spare fighter and no proper pilot for it they should have told him to ferry it to their back up base to save it in case their defence fails. Unless they determined that he was at least "good enough". And had someone like, oh, say, Biggs Darklighter vouching for him (childhood friend and who, probably not coincidentally, was his wingman in the battle) And again, he was hardly leading the fight. Luke hung back until two other attempts to make the run were obliterated (that is, two attempts that actually made it to the trench) and they were ABSOLUTELY OUT OF TIME.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Jan 7, 2020 19:22:05 GMT
No? Because the issue with that character goes a lot further then merely piloting a fighter or space craft. O_o All by the canon mind. Cannon mind? You disregarding Disney's own products is your prerogative but don't proceed to go on a fucking rant when you don't even bother to read what I write apparently because I will reply in kind. You don't want to own that Disney has canon out there that makes her so stupidly Mary Sue that it basically renders the debate over and done with? Fine, I don't care but to label their own products as fanfiction basically is amusing to me. Do you follow the Disney universe or not? Can't pick and choose sources homie, its called moving the goal post after all.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Jan 7, 2020 19:25:53 GMT
Aren't you the one who asserted the training issue before? See above. No? Because now I recall via just rolling back a few pages that was indeed you. I do find it amusing that your dropped the Luke V Rey comparison immediately when I pointed out that Luke could have spent like half a year with Yoda. So of course you try again despite the fact that Luke comes out looking better in this regard as well.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 5:01:51 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2020 19:29:41 GMT
You disagreeing Disney's own products is your prerogative but don't proceed to go on a fucking rant when you don't even bother to read what I write apparently because I will reply in kind. You don't want to own that Disney has canon out there that makes her so stupidly Mary Sue that it basically renders the debate over and done with? Fine, I don't care but to label their own products as fanfiction basically is amusing to me. Do you follow the Disney universe or not? Can't pick and choose sources homie, its called moving the goal post after all. what the actual heck? When did I do any of these things? I don't treat Disneys product as 'fanfiction' I believe I've made quite clear I like what Disney has offered, all three movies. Furthermore, as I have argued many times, I feel like I've been offering my opinion and takes on a wide variety of subjects including Rey's sueishness based on evidence provided by those movies. So clearly it's not as obvious as you would believe. I don't need to make up a headcanon or stretch that far. The movies provide me adequate information enough to feel confident in my opinion.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 5:01:51 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2020 19:32:02 GMT
No? Because now I recall via just rolling back a few pages that was indeed you. I do find it amusing that your dropped the Luke V Rey comparison immediately when I pointed out that Luke could have spent like half a year with Yoda. So of course you try again despite the fact that Luke comes out looking better in this regard as well. why does it have to be a competition? I like Luke more then I like Rey (largely because of TLJ) but this constant bickering between the OT and NT is really weird.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jan 7, 2020 19:48:04 GMT
Honestly, with the way this trilogy handles itself, the movies themselves do enough bickering among themselves for all of us. I would have rather just watched JJ and Rian have a cage match to the death to see who gets to direct the whole trilogy.
|
|
inherit
11346
0
Sept 28, 2024 22:23:05 GMT
1,439
skekSil
1,200
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Jan 7, 2020 19:51:25 GMT
Nah. Maybe during a normal sensitive job trying to avoid the Empire's notice, but in this case their cover was already as blown as it could be and they all knew it was a suicide mission and not to endanger it for anything, so people getting killed trying to save the new kid if he got into trouble wouldn't be a concern. And I don't remember any "back up bases". As the situation was presented it was either blow up the Death Star or the Rebels would be obliterated beyond the point of ever being a threat to the Empire again. Any additional fighter capable of getting to the shaft and delivering the payload, and at least spread enemy firepower that much thinner if not, would have been worth sending. Unless they determined that he was at least "good enough". And had someone like, oh, say, Biggs Darklighter vouching for him (childhood friend and who, probably not coincidentally, was his wingman in the battle) And again, he was hardly leading the fight. Luke hung back until two other attempts to make the run were obliterated (that is, two attempts that actually made it to the trench) and they were ABSOLUTELY OUT OF TIME. These are in-universe explanations, this will not happen in real life. They did far less establishing her character in general. Almost phoned in. They could have easily done any of the things I mentioned above. As I have said, these things could be inferred from previous films. As I said, Phantom Menace is not one I've watched many times. Well this is how it happened and this means that SW world work in this particular way. 9 year old kids can jump into fighter and figure out how to fly it in a couple of minutes. As far as the droids. You're saying that there are loads of functioning droids of downed Star Destroyers decades after the war?
Why not? Stuff is made tuff in the galaxy far far awy. R2 sank is a swamp and simply poped up the periscope. They show DIO robot only needed his battery recharged.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 5:01:51 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2020 19:54:29 GMT
Honestly, with the way this trilogy handles itself, the movies themselves do enough bickering among themselves for all of us. I would have rather just watched JJ and Rian have a cage match to the death to see who gets to direct the whole trilogy. tis the result of Lucasfilm kow towing to the fans rather then sticking to their guns. Though the series remains remarkably consistent despite its issues.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Jan 7, 2020 19:56:39 GMT
You disagreeing Disney's own products is your prerogative but don't proceed to go on a fucking rant when you don't even bother to read what I write apparently because I will reply in kind. You don't want to own that Disney has canon out there that makes her so stupidly Mary Sue that it basically renders the debate over and done with? Fine, I don't care but to label their own products as fanfiction basically is amusing to me. Do you follow the Disney universe or not? Can't pick and choose sources homie, its called moving the goal post after all. I believe I've made quite clear I like what Disney has offered Then your entire first reply was dismissive bullshit utterly unworthy of response? Groovy I agree. Seriously make up your mind, you can't label one thing canon and disregard the other bits after all, just because Disney's dumb little comics prove my point right doesn't mean that they aren't official products after all.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Jan 7, 2020 19:58:54 GMT
No? Because now I recall via just rolling back a few pages that was indeed you. I do find it amusing that your dropped the Luke V Rey comparison immediately when I pointed out that Luke could have spent like half a year with Yoda. So of course you try again despite the fact that Luke comes out looking better in this regard as well. why does it have to be a competition? One, no you can't just insert yourself on to the other side to act the part of impartial mediator. Two, I didn't even bring up this topic. Three, It isn't Luke is the better character with an actual arc and story line progression.
|
|
inherit
11346
0
Sept 28, 2024 22:23:05 GMT
1,439
skekSil
1,200
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Jan 7, 2020 20:05:23 GMT
No? Because now I recall via just rolling back a few pages that was indeed you. " See above" means "read what I have written higher in this same post to other guy, it answers your question". I even boldened the most important part of my argument. I do find it amusing that your dropped the Luke V Rey comparison immediately when I pointed out that Luke could have spent like half a year with Yoda. I didnt drop anything and Luke could have spent two days on Dagobah if you watch the movie.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 5:01:51 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2020 20:06:25 GMT
I believe I've made quite clear I like what Disney has offered Then your entire first reply was dismissive bullshit utterly unworthy of response? Groovy I agree. Seriously make up your mind, you can't label one thing canon and disregard the other bits after all, just because Disney's dumb little comics prove my point right doesn't mean that they aren't official products after all. ah. Now I get where you are coming from. I suppose that's a fair observation... but you still seem to be stretching since I don't believe I've never called them canon, I just haven't read them...and I doubt they'll change my opinion. why does it have to be a competition? One, no you can't just insert yourself on to the other side to act the part of impartial mediator. Two, I didn't even bring up this topic. Three, It isn't Luke is the better character with an actual arc and story line progression. I'm mot an impartial moderator, never was, never claimed to be. I love Luke, Rey, and Star Wars...I'm defending what I love and giving the reasons on why I love it. I just find this constant in fighting, among all fandoms, a bit silly.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jan 7, 2020 20:48:05 GMT
I do kinda wish that 9 year old flying a fighter was not a thing the prequels established that could happen. Spinning is a neat trick and such, but even if one is basically chosen by magic bacteria, it just really adds a layer of needless campfest I could've done without. It would've been bonus points if Maul was about to kill Obi-Wan, only to get crushed by Annie's Naboo fighter.
|
|