Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 15:24:43 GMT
Sure if Anakin hadn't fallen in love he wouldn't have fallen... But then if the Jedi didn't have such dogmatic views on basic human emotions he might've felt more comfortable going to them. Jedi fear and Jedi arrogance contributed to their own undoing. That's the tragedy.
We don't know what would have happened. But the reason he fell was due to attachments, and not following the rules. If he follows the rules everyone else was none of it happens.
Besides which, Anakin's failing wasn't really love to begin with. It was fear. And obsession. Love was what ultimately redeemed him.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 15:29:00 GMT
Can't believe I missed this. This isn't even really true. Anakin fell to the dark side for one reason, and it had nothing to do with isolation. He broke the rules of the temple plain and simple. He didn't leave his past behind. He couldn't let go of his mother, went back to get her, found he dead and murdered a bunch of sand people as a result. He was told multiple times to leave his past behind, and to train himself to let go of all he feared to lose. Then instead of learning from his previous mistakes, he develops an attachment to someone. He falls in love with someone he was supposed to be protecting, gets married in secret and gets her pregnant. He starts seeing visions of her dying. The Jedi didn't brush him off. He went and talked about Yoda about it, but he lied and said and talked about it in generalities instead of living up to what he was doing and admitting to the relationship. Padme suggested they go talk to Obi-Wan about it, he said no. Even when he was a padawan, he was saying Obi-wan was jealous of him because he wanted him to learn instead of letting him rush through the ranks. Then this relationship was used by Palpatine, when he told Anakin that he could offer a way to save her. Anakin chose the Jedi, and turned Palpatine in. He just saved Palpatine because he thought he was the only one that could save Padme. In short, if Anakin had followed the rules of the temple and you remove Padme from the equation he never goes dark. So if anything, this says that they were doing things mostly the right way at the time. Sure if Anakin hadn't fallen in love he wouldn't have fallen... But then if the Jedi didn't have such dogmatic views on basic human emotions he might've felt more comfortable going to them. Jedi fear and Jedi arrogance contributed to their own undoing. That's the tragedy. "Dogmatic views on basic human emotions?"
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 9, 2020 16:16:32 GMT
Sure if Anakin hadn't fallen in love he wouldn't have fallen... But then if the Jedi didn't have such dogmatic views on basic human emotions he might've felt more comfortable going to them. Jedi fear and Jedi arrogance contributed to their own undoing. That's the tragedy. "Dogmatic views on basic human emotions?" One could also say Kenobi's love prevented him from performing his duty to kill Anakin. But, mostly I agree the Jedi were against attachment more than love. In the Revenge of the Sith novel Kenobi speaks of his feelings for Anakin to Yoda, they both just have a very compartmentalized view of their feelings when it comes to doing their duty, compared to Anakin - they aren't attached.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 16:36:19 GMT
"Dogmatic views on basic human emotions?" One could also say Kenobi's love prevented him from performing his duty to kill Anakin. But, mostly I agree the Jedi were against attachment more than love. In the Revenge of the Sith novel Kenobi speaks of his feelings for Anakin to Yoda, they both just have a very compartmentalized view of their feelings when it comes to doing their duty, compared to Anakin - they aren't attached. But at the same time it was Luke's love for his father, and vice versa that allowed them to destroy the Emperor (until it was retconned and became a colossal waste of time, that is)
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 9, 2020 17:15:58 GMT
One could also say Kenobi's love prevented him from performing his duty to kill Anakin. But, mostly I agree the Jedi were against attachment more than love. In the Revenge of the Sith novel Kenobi speaks of his feelings for Anakin to Yoda, they both just have a very compartmentalized view of their feelings when it comes to doing their duty, compared to Anakin - they aren't attached. But at the same time it was Luke's love for his father, and vice versa that allowed them to destroy the Emperor (until it was retconned and became a colossal waste of time, that is) Love is big word to use with respect to Luke's feelings for Vader, the guy that killed his and Leia's surrogate parents and is responsible for unimaginable suffering throughout the galaxy. For Luke - familial duty, some compassion for Vader's life story, a lack of anger and hate, a sense that Vader still had good in him - all of these contributed to Luke wanting to give Vader a chance to turn from the dark side.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 17:30:01 GMT
But at the same time it was Luke's love for his father, and vice versa that allowed them to destroy the Emperor (until it was retconned and became a colossal waste of time, that is) Love is big word to use with respect to Luke's feelings for Vader, the guy that killed his and Leia's surrogate parents and is responsible for unimaginable suffering throughout the galaxy. For Luke - familial duty, some compassion for Vader's life story, a lack of anger and hate, a sense that Vader still had good in him - all of these contributed to Luke wanting to give Vader a chance to turn from the dark side. Love comes in many forms. What Luke had was intense filial love. Even as the Emperor was slowly killing him with Force lightning, he cried out "Father! Please! Help me!"
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 9, 2020 17:46:07 GMT
She let her anger get the better of her. She was already straining to keep the ship in place and here comes Kylo butting in. Now she is getting mad to the point she lets her anger spill out, losing control of herself. Not that I want to see another original character die, but they should have kept that death permanent. With great power comes great responsibility and she failed that. That death would have ate her up with guilt, pushing further into the dark side.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 9, 2020 17:59:53 GMT
She let her anger get the better of her. She was already straining to keep the ship in place and here comes Kylo butting in. Now she is getting mad to the point she lets her anger spill out, losing control of herself. Not that I want to see another original character die, but they should have kept that death permanent. With great power comes great responsibility and she failed that. That death would have ate her up with guilt, pushing further into the dark side. I agree. It also would've made her final rejection of Palpy that much more potent. But sadly Disney had to kow tow to the critics that they were killing off too many legacy characters.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 9, 2020 18:02:59 GMT
Sure if Anakin hadn't fallen in love he wouldn't have fallen... But then if the Jedi didn't have such dogmatic views on basic human emotions he might've felt more comfortable going to them. Jedi fear and Jedi arrogance contributed to their own undoing. That's the tragedy. "Dogmatic views on basic human emotions?" Which is why Obi is one of my favorites. Even still he had an absolutist view on emotion, the Sith, and the dark side.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 9, 2020 19:46:33 GMT
Not gonna lie, it only made Darth Ross's death all the more needed. I was glad I had a full stock of Listerine.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 9, 2020 19:54:15 GMT
Not gonna lie, it only made Darth Ross's death all the more needed. I was glad I had a full stock of Listerine. Darth Ross...listerine....uncontrollable laughter.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 9, 2020 20:16:43 GMT
"Dogmatic views on basic human emotions?" Which is why Obi is one of my favorites. Even still he had an absolutist view on emotion, the Sith, and the dark side. I think it's pretty great how even through all the goofy stuff the prequel trilogy had, and the absolutely cornball stuff Obi was forced to say, he was still a big bright spot, although the Phantom Menace Obi was boring and forgettable as all hell. Clone Wars elevated him to my all-time favorite character in the franchise.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 9, 2020 20:18:05 GMT
Which is why Obi is one of my favorites. Even still he had an absolutist view on emotion, the Sith, and the dark side. I think it's pretty great how even through all the goofy stuff the prequel trilogy had, and the absolutely cornball stuff Obi was forced to say, he was still a big bright spot, although the Phantom Menace Obi was boring and forgettable as all hell. Clone Wars elevated him to my all-time favorite character in the franchise. He's my second. The sass man. The epic sass.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 9, 2020 21:57:06 GMT
I think it's pretty great how even through all the goofy stuff the prequel trilogy had, and the absolutely cornball stuff Obi was forced to say, he was still a big bright spot, although the Phantom Menace Obi was boring and forgettable as all hell. Clone Wars elevated him to my all-time favorite character in the franchise. He's my second. The sass man. The epic sass.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 9, 2020 22:02:39 GMT
He's my second. The sass man. The epic sass. I've watched that video many a time. On the subject of ranking things so tempted to rank all my favorite SWs things ever but A. No one probably cares and B. Having a real big problem ranking my ten favorite lightsaber fights...not even going to try and do the music.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 9, 2020 22:41:19 GMT
I think it's pretty great how even through all the goofy stuff the prequel trilogy had, and the absolutely cornball stuff Obi was forced to say, he was still a big bright spot, although the Phantom Menace Obi was boring and forgettable as all hell. Clone Wars elevated him to my all-time favorite character in the franchise. He's my second. The sass man. The epic sass. I think what served so well for this character also was the fantastic chemistry between him and Dutchess Satine. Every moment with them on screen, even to the bitter end, was just really enjoyable to take in.
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Post by skekSil on Jan 9, 2020 22:44:45 GMT
BSI - before sequel incident, ASI -after sequel incident?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 9, 2020 22:58:02 GMT
Eh, lorewise it does make more sense to have that be a dividing date that the Battle of Yavin considering how the Starkiller Incident has much more of an impact by wiping out the Nee Republic government. Personally would have chosen Empire Day as the splitting point, but I guess it makes sense the New Republic wouldn’t use the Empire’s calendar.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 9, 2020 23:05:17 GMT
Honestly the Star Wars timeline never really has made sense in universe and out of universe...and it still doesen't. BBY and ABY just wouldn't be a significant enough event in universe to justify reworking the calender...and neither does Starkiller base.
BFE/ AFE- Before/ After Foundation Empire And BBA/ABA- Before/ After Birth of Anakin Skywalker makes a lot more sense in universe.
Hell if they were still a thing you could also probably get away with using the Yuuzhan Vong invasion as the divide in the timeline too...
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 23:28:27 GMT
BSI - before sequel incident, ASI -after sequel incident? Might as well be. It's "Before Starkiller Incident"
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 23:29:43 GMT
Eh, lorewise it does make more sense to have that be a dividing date that the Battle of Yavin considering how the Starkiller Incident has much more of an impact by wiping out the Nee Republic government. Personally would have chosen Empire Day as the splitting point, but I guess it makes sense the New Republic wouldn’t use the Empire’s calendar. It's just further attempts to marginalize everything that took place before Disney got its hands on the setting.
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Post by mybudgee on Jan 9, 2020 23:38:56 GMT
BSI - before sequel incident, ASI -after sequel incident? That's hilarious These abominations are certainly an Incident
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Post by colfoley on Jan 10, 2020 1:22:40 GMT
Ugh watching so many terrific fan vids has really put me in the mood. Goodness I love these movies so much.
Its also kind of interesting, the earlier conversation about Anakin and the Jedi's failures with him made me realize it was kind of eerie...how both Anakin's and Rey's stories matched a lot of what was going on, and I guess is going on, in my life during when the movies were coming out. I think Rey's teachings were a bit more healthier then Anakin's though...
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Post by mybudgee on Jan 10, 2020 1:38:48 GMT
I think Rey's teachings were a bit more healthier then Anakin's though...
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Post by colfoley on Jan 10, 2020 1:45:10 GMT
Laugh it up baldy
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