Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 24, 2020 20:38:24 GMT
Not enough idiotic Feminist tropes? Obi-Won must be too white male and yet they can't turn his life into a COMPLETE train wreck since he's gotta live to make it to Episode IV
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 24, 2020 22:25:29 GMT
A shame they didn't do more with that. Her suddenly pretending to be clumsy with a normal lightsaber in RoS was too little and too late to seem plausible, but at least building on the weird quarterstaff skill by having her specialize a saber to mimic it would have been logical. Her obviously thinking, self-evaluating and playing to her strengths for once instead of just manifesting proficiencies out of thin air would have gone a long way to make her capabilities feel more grounded in reality. It would also have helped distinguish her more from Luke and Anakin, so they might not have felt such a need to overcompensate by making her seem ultra-special and overpowered. Ignoring, of course, that the double lightsaber is a ridiculous and impractical weapon, and that trying to use it in combat would be suicide.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 24, 2020 23:09:12 GMT
A shame they didn't do more with that. Her suddenly pretending to be clumsy with a normal lightsaber in RoS was too little and too late to seem plausible, but at least building on the weird quarterstaff skill by having her specialize a saber to mimic it would have been logical. Her obviously thinking, self-evaluating and playing to her strengths for once instead of just manifesting proficiencies out of thin air would have gone a long way to make her capabilities feel more grounded in reality. It would also have helped distinguish her more from Luke and Anakin, so they might not have felt such a need to overcompensate by making her seem ultra-special and overpowered. Ignoring, of course, that the double lightsaber is a ridiculous and impractical weapon, and that trying to use it in combat would be suicide. 'her pretending to be clumsy with a Lightsaber all of the sudden in Episode 9'... She was always clumsy with a lightsaber. If anything her form was way more refined in Episode 9. Kylo simply beat her because the man is a bit of a unit.
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 0:19:34 GMT
A shame they didn't do more with that. Her suddenly pretending to be clumsy with a normal lightsaber in RoS was too little and too late to seem plausible, but at least building on the weird quarterstaff skill by having her specialize a saber to mimic it would have been logical. Her obviously thinking, self-evaluating and playing to her strengths for once instead of just manifesting proficiencies out of thin air would have gone a long way to make her capabilities feel more grounded in reality. It would also have helped distinguish her more from Luke and Anakin, so they might not have felt such a need to overcompensate by making her seem ultra-special and overpowered. Ignoring, of course, that the double lightsaber is a ridiculous and impractical weapon, and that trying to use it in combat would be suicide. 'her pretending to be clumsy with a Lightsaber all of the sudden in Episode 9'... She was always clumsy with a lightsaber. If anything her form was way more refined in Episode 9. Kylo simply beat her because the man is a bit of a unit. Tell that to Snoke's Elite Guard.
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Evil
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Post by Evil on Jan 25, 2020 0:25:36 GMT
A shame they didn't do more with that. Her suddenly pretending to be clumsy with a normal lightsaber in RoS was too little and too late to seem plausible, but at least building on the weird quarterstaff skill by having her specialize a saber to mimic it would have been logical. Her obviously thinking, self-evaluating and playing to her strengths for once instead of just manifesting proficiencies out of thin air would have gone a long way to make her capabilities feel more grounded in reality. It would also have helped distinguish her more from Luke and Anakin, so they might not have felt such a need to overcompensate by making her seem ultra-special and overpowered. Ignoring, of course, that the double lightsaber is a ridiculous and impractical weapon, and that trying to use it in combat would be suicide. 'her pretending to be clumsy with a Lightsaber all of the sudden in Episode 9'... She was always clumsy with a lightsaber. If anything her form was way more refined in Episode 9. Kylo simply beat her because the man is a bit of a unit. Everyone who picks up a lightsabre for the first time in the Disney trilogy is fucking awful with it. They all swing the damn things like they were baseball bats. I'm not exaggerating here, the wider HEMA community is using clips from the first two parts of the trilogy as demonstrations of how NOT to use a sword. Its one of the reasons I'm halfway familiar with this trilogy's events actually. Bad lightsabre use isn't an entirely new thing to be fair, the prequel trilogy was widely mocked for having a different problem in the form of lightsabre ballet. ![](http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/holocron/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/obi-ani-saberdance.gif) Finn gets a pass since he'd be used to using batons instead of blades, can't really blame him for not having any technique with blades. Rey looks like a scared child swinging a club they just found lying around. Darth Emo looks like an edgy teenager having a temper tantrum and just trying to smash stuff. Directorial incompetence? Deliberate characterisation? Simple coincidence? Social commentary? You be the judge.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 0:50:59 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2020 1:12:39 GMT
'her pretending to be clumsy with a Lightsaber all of the sudden in Episode 9'... She was always clumsy with a lightsaber. If anything her form was way more refined in Episode 9. Kylo simply beat her because the man is a bit of a unit. Tell that to Snoke's Elite Guard. She was pretty clumsy in that fight too. Just watch it. She was basically at one point, when she and Kylo were seperated, was reduced to one on one combat...and she could barely handle that one. Kylo meanwhile was bench pressing 3-4 to 1 odds. 'her pretending to be clumsy with a Lightsaber all of the sudden in Episode 9'... She was always clumsy with a lightsaber. If anything her form was way more refined in Episode 9. Kylo simply beat her because the man is a bit of a unit. Everyone who picks up a lightsabre for the first time in the Disney trilogy is fucking awful with it. They all swing the damn things like they were baseball bats. I'm not exaggerating here, the wider HEMA community is using clips from the first two parts of the trilogy as demonstrations of how NOT to use a sword. Its one of the reasons I'm halfway familiar with this trilogy's events actually. Bad lightsabre use isn't an entirely new thing to be fair, the prequel trilogy was widely mocked for having a different problem in the form of lightsabre ballet. ![](http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/holocron/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/obi-ani-saberdance.gif) Finn gets a pass since he'd be used to using batons instead of blades, can't really blame him for not having any technique with blades. Rey looks like a scared child swinging a club they just found lying around. Darth Emo looks like an edgy teenager having a temper tantrum and just trying to smash stuff. Directorial incompetence? Deliberate characterisation? Simple coincidence? Social commentary? You be the judge. Now THIS is the kind of stuff I am looking for. Thank you. Now prefacing all of what I am about to say is the sword and sword fighting really isn't my thing...the only sword combat I've studied is Lightsaber combat actually. So I am obviously speaking from an amateruish perspective... But I think you are largely right about your commentary, I've seen it echo what others have had to say on the matter AND I even see some of it myself. Just as an amateur I happen to like the chereography in both the prequels and the sequels. I really don't have an issue with either of them and both seem to have their place. Yes, Rey is a scared girl...makes sense since she has 'never held a lightsaber before'. Yes Kylo tends to want to blugeon people with it...makes sense because he is a very 'beat into submission' kind of character...and I do wonder how much actual practice he's had in actual light saber combat at that pont. I kind of like that it is not as refined and the LS combat in the sequels has a sort of 'weight' to it, though this is helped with the sound effects. The prequels are more intricate because the Jedi had thousands of years to master the form.
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cypherj
N4
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Post by cypherj on Jan 25, 2020 1:29:29 GMT
'her pretending to be clumsy with a Lightsaber all of the sudden in Episode 9'... She was always clumsy with a lightsaber. If anything her form was way more refined in Episode 9. Kylo simply beat her because the man is a bit of a unit. Everyone who picks up a lightsabre for the first time in the Disney trilogy is fucking awful with it. They all swing the damn things like they were baseball bats. I'm not exaggerating here, the wider HEMA community is using clips from the first two parts of the trilogy as demonstrations of how NOT to use a sword. Its one of the reasons I'm halfway familiar with this trilogy's events actually. Bad lightsabre use isn't an entirely new thing to be fair, the prequel trilogy was widely mocked for having a different problem in the form of lightsabre ballet. ![](http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/holocron/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/obi-ani-saberdance.gif) Finn gets a pass since he'd be used to using batons instead of blades, can't really blame him for not having any technique with blades. Rey looks like a scared child swinging a club they just found lying around. Darth Emo looks like an edgy teenager having a temper tantrum and just trying to smash stuff. Directorial incompetence? Deliberate characterisation? Simple coincidence? Social commentary? You be the judge. I actually didn't think the lightsaber use was bad in the TPM. The fight between Qui-gon and Maul, and then Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon against Maul weren't bad at all. They weren't overly flashy with completely unnecessary nonsense like the GIF above. It probably had the best lightsaber play out of the movies. The first trilogy was just a little slow. Signs of the time I guess. The most recent trilogy was just awful to me. The lightsaber always struck me as a finesse weapon, not something you try to use with brute force. Everyone who used one, from Finn to Kylo, nothing but wild power shots. No finesse, no parries and counters. Just wild swinging. One blow at a time, cutting down trees, tearing up walls, anything around them. Some actors just seem to take to it and become adept, others, not so much.
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cypherj
N4
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Post by cypherj on Jan 25, 2020 1:37:38 GMT
It's amazing how many ideas and versions of the story have surfaced since the release. How Kathleen Kennedy could sit there with a straight face and say the version we got was planned from the start is beyond me. They obviously scrapped what was there and threw something together when JJ Abrams came back.
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 1:38:02 GMT
Tell that to Snoke's Elite Guard. She was pretty clumsy in that fight too. Just watch it. She was basically at one point, when she and Kylo were seperated, was reduced to one on one combat...and she could barely handle that one. Kylo meanwhile was bench pressing 3-4 to 1 odds. And yet she's still able to take on and defeat member's of Snoke's personal guard. And I seem to recall that her ultimate kill count and Kylo's were roughly the same in the end.
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 1:39:03 GMT
It's amazing how many ideas and versions of the story have surfaced since the release. How Kathleen Kennedy could sit there with a straight face and say the version we got was planned from the start is beyond me. They obviously scrapped what was there and threw something together when JJ Abrams came back. I would have forgiven a lot if Luke had been given the chance to properly pass the torch on to the next generation, and not spend his final years such a loser.
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Post by mybudgee on Jan 25, 2020 1:44:47 GMT
The prequels had very little issues with fight choreography, other than the Sheev vs. Windu scene... ![:facepalm:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/LnUBktUNmyIRZJVJhGSZ.png) However, the sequels make no sense in most ways, characterization a chief problem. Yes, the Kylo dueling style being aggressive & direct is cool & makes sense. As his grandfather before him, subtlety & finesse are not his lightsaber form. The thing with Rey is; her style should be like a hybrid of Maul & Sidious. Very strong and aggressive but with just enough technique that she's virtually unbeatable. That would have made for some truly clever & awesome swordfights in the sequel trilogy... instead of what we actually got ![:sick:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/VhbbJOxdgapOwskrOaaE.png)
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cypherj
N4
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Post by cypherj on Jan 25, 2020 2:03:01 GMT
It's amazing how many ideas and versions of the story have surfaced since the release. How Kathleen Kennedy could sit there with a straight face and say the version we got was planned from the start is beyond me. They obviously scrapped what was there and threw something together when JJ Abrams came back. I would have forgiven a lot if Luke had been given the chance to properly pass the torch on to the next generation, and not spend his final years such a loser. I think the trilogy would have been much better off if they had stuck with what they were clearly planning from the start. Snoke told Hux to bring Kylo to him to complete his training, and Rey was with Luke on the island. It's clear they were planning a time skip, where both Rey and Kylo leanred under their respective masters, and came back in the second movie. Instead, they did the opposite. They skipped no time, did no training, and ended up with an OP Jedi a week into the force with no training doing things with force not seen from experienced Jedi. They could have pulled off a story like Jaina and Jacen had in the EU. As for Luke. My issue with him was that they couldn't decide his story. He wants to train Jedi, then he wants nothing to do with Jedi. Cares nothing for the affairs of Jedi and Sith. Then in the third movie it comes out that he was out with Lando looking for the Sith wayfinder and Exogul ten years prior. Ten years ago when he was in exile on the island after his failure with his school no longer caring for the affairs of Jedi & Sith? Which was it? Did he care or didn't he? The directors didn't even try to make what they wanted to do work with the established groundwork. They just tore the groundwork up and started over every movie. Then...then he became the first Jedi in one of the movies to die from overexertion of the force. Sadly, he wouldn't be the last. Is this really how we want to send Jedi off to the netherworld? Really?
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Post by Evil on Jan 25, 2020 2:28:22 GMT
I actually didn't think the lightsaber use was bad in the TPM. The fight between Qui-gon and Maul, and then Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon against Maul weren't bad at all. They weren't overly flashy with completely unnecessary nonsense like the GIF above. It probably had the best lightsaber play out of the movies. The first trilogy was just a little slow. Signs of the time I guess. The most recent trilogy was just awful to me. The lightsaber always struck me as a finesse weapon, not something you try to use with brute force. Everyone who used one, from Finn to Kylo, nothing but wild power shots. No finesse, no parries and counters. Just wild swinging. One blow at a time, cutting down trees, tearing up walls, anything around them. Some actors just seem to take to it and become adept, others, not so much. At the viewer level I agree, the maul vs jedi scenes were the redeeming factor of that film. His excessive spinning was kinda irksome, but I partially handwaved that as a 2v1 thing, coupled with, y'know, angry sith with little discipline. I also handwaved the jedi's failings in all 3 films somewhat by allowing for the fact they'd not been in a blade vs blade fight that was intended to kill for generations. That tends to breed bad habits and a loss of focus on practicality. *points at modern European fencing, modern kenjitsu, and kendo* Dooku was pretty decent to watch too actually, most of his movements were simple and energy efficient with only a little showboating. Given the larger than life kinda guy Christopher Lee was, I dare say he'd had some prior instruction in fencing which would explain that. Also, I can totally see Dooku showing off a bit when he should just go for the kill. III seemed the be determined to one-up the others and spoiled what could have been good scenes by cranking itself up to self-parody levels for the big fights at the end. ![](https://i.redd.it/dskwncmu8pv01.jpg) Lulzy memes, but damn near impossible to take seriously. As for the originals, Empire and Return were solid. New hope was crippled by the IRL restrictions unfortunately. Alec Guiness was simply too old and infirm to use the quick counter-thrusts his stance would usually feature, and David Prowse had severe difficulty in using a 2 handed grip with that shoulder padding. Notice how Bob Anderson worked around the issue by using a 1 handed grip in V and VI? The fights in the first 2 Disney trilogy instalments? Yea, they made me wince too much to enjoy them, I can see why people were picking them apart. That's fine though, If they really were done that way intentionally as characterisation. You can't please everyone all the time.
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N4
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Post by cypherj on Jan 25, 2020 3:09:22 GMT
I actually didn't think the lightsaber use was bad in the TPM. The fight between Qui-gon and Maul, and then Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon against Maul weren't bad at all. They weren't overly flashy with completely unnecessary nonsense like the GIF above. It probably had the best lightsaber play out of the movies. The first trilogy was just a little slow. Signs of the time I guess. The most recent trilogy was just awful to me. The lightsaber always struck me as a finesse weapon, not something you try to use with brute force. Everyone who used one, from Finn to Kylo, nothing but wild power shots. No finesse, no parries and counters. Just wild swinging. One blow at a time, cutting down trees, tearing up walls, anything around them. Some actors just seem to take to it and become adept, others, not so much. At the viewer level I agree, the maul vs jedi scenes were the redeeming factor of that film. His excessive spinning was kinda irksome, but I partially handwaved that as a 2v1 thing, coupled with, y'know, angry sith with little discipline. I also handwaved the jedi's failings in all 3 films somewhat by allowing for the fact they'd not been in a blade vs blade fight that was intended to kill for generations. That tends to breed bad habits and a loss of focus on practicality. *points at modern European fencing, modern kenjitsu, and kendo* Dooku was pretty decent to watch too actually, most of his movements were simple and energy efficient with only a little showboating. Given the larger than life kinda guy Christopher Lee was, I dare say he'd had some prior instruction in fencing which would explain that. Also, I can totally see Dooku showing off a bit when he should just go for the kill. III seemed the be determined to one-up the others and spoiled what could have been good scenes by cranking itself up to self-parody levels for the big fights at the end. ![](https://i.redd.it/dskwncmu8pv01.jpg) Lulzy memes, but damn near impossible to take seriously. As for the originals, Empire and Return were solid. New hope was crippled by the IRL restrictions unfortunately. Alec Guiness was simply too old and infirm to use the quick counter-thrusts his stance would usually feature, and David Prowse had severe difficulty in using a 2 handed grip with that shoulder padding. Notice how Bob Anderson worked around the issue by using a 1 handed grip in V and VI? The fights in the first 2 Disney trilogy instalments? Yea, they made me wince too much to enjoy them, I can see why people were picking them apart. That's fine though, If they really were done that way intentionally as characterisation. You can't please everyone all the time. Well, the thinking was that the second form of lightsaber combat was saber to saber combat, which the Jedi stopped practicing since there weren't any Sith. Instead turning their focus to defending themselves against enemies with blasters. So when Sith returned, and they were preparing to fight Jedi, the avg Jedi wasn't ready. Which is why even someone like Ventress, who wasn't a Sith could best them. Not to mention the fact that since Jedi so vastly outnumbered Sith, you couldn't have an equal playing field for plot purposes. Having said that. They lost me on the Palapatine nonsense. Mace Windu came with three other masters. Not padawans or Jedi Knights. Three other members of the council, and they all die within seconds. That went past even suspension of disbelief levels. Then McDiarmid was just too old to put up a realistic fight with Windu. It just looked silly. The first scene of ROTS wasn't bad. But as has been said, Dooku was solid and very smooth in his technique. After that it just went downhill though. As for the new trilogy, I highly doubt it was done for story purposes. Kylo would have received his initial training from Luke, and then refined it under Snoke. Can't see that combination turning out like that. Daisy just never looked comfortable with a lightsaber. Ironically, some of the best lightsaber use was by whoever was standing in playing Dark Rey and using the double bladed lightsaber on the Death Star wreckage. For as short as it was, that was probably the best we saw in all three movies.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 3:12:52 GMT
Disney is really determined on retconning the Prequels are they? After the TROS retconning of the Chosen One I wonder if they're going to replace Ep. 1-3?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 4:11:51 GMT
Dooku was pretty decent to watch too actually, most of his movements were simple and energy efficient with only a little showboating. Given the larger than life kinda guy Christopher Lee was, I dare say he'd had some prior instruction in fencing which would explain that. Also, I can totally see Dooku showing off a bit when he should just go for the kill. Yeah, Christopher Lee was an accomplished fencer and had been doing sword fights in films since the 1930s
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 4:13:50 GMT
Disney is really determined on retconning the Prequels are they? After the TROS retconning of the Chosen One I wonder if they're going to replace Ep. 1-3? Disney doesn't give a sh*t about I-VI, or any of the other material. All they want is the Star Wars label they can slap on their own space opera.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 25, 2020 4:35:20 GMT
Imagine seeing RoTS in theaters on the release date, and every one in the audience being silenced by the randomness of a senior citizen doing a 360º corkscrew summersault while screeching like a demon. ![](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BronzeZestyAnteater-small.gif)
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 5:12:04 GMT
Imagine seeing RoTS in theaters on the release date, and every one in the audience being silenced by the randomness of a senior citizen doing a 360º corkscrew summersault while screeching like a demon. ![](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BronzeZestyAnteater-small.gif) Been there. Done that
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2020 6:08:23 GMT
Disney is really determined on retconning the Prequels are they? After the TROS retconning of the Chosen One I wonder if they're going to replace Ep. 1-3? how did TROS retcon the chosen one?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 25, 2020 6:43:14 GMT
Disney is really determined on retconning the Prequels are they? After the TROS retconning of the Chosen One I wonder if they're going to replace Ep. 1-3? how did TROS retcon the chosen one? It didn’t. Disney even said Anakin is still the Chosen One of the prophecy.
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Post by river82 on Jan 25, 2020 7:32:14 GMT
Victory dance oh victory dance, looks like Grace Randolph was right this time and her naysayers were wrong ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png)
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Post by cypherj on Jan 25, 2020 12:32:14 GMT
Disney is really determined on retconning the Prequels are they? After the TROS retconning of the Chosen One I wonder if they're going to replace Ep. 1-3? Disney doesn't give a sh*t about I-VI, or any of the other material. All they want is the Star Wars label they can slap on their own space opera. What other material? According to Kathleen Kennedy “Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack,” Kennedy explained. “There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be.”Apparently such material does not exist.
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Post by Lavochkin on Jan 25, 2020 13:30:09 GMT
Nice bit of SW 2D Gif art. ![](https://i.postimg.cc/xTsyBNLg/x09gw0udya741.gif)
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