Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 14:22:53 GMT
If Disney remastered the original trilogy:
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 16:27:54 GMT
Disney doesn't give a sh*t about I-VI, or any of the other material. All they want is the Star Wars label they can slap on their own space opera. What other material? According to Kathleen Kennedy “Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack,” Kennedy explained. “There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be.”Apparently such material does not exist.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 16:31:29 GMT
Imagine seeing RoTS in theaters on the release date, and every one in the audience being silenced by the randomness of a senior citizen doing a 360º corkscrew summersault while screeching like a demon. I rather have that than the abusive, sexist Reylo.
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 16:33:29 GMT
Disney is really determined on retconning the Prequels are they? After the TROS retconning of the Chosen One I wonder if they're going to replace Ep. 1-3? how did TROS retcon the chosen one? By not letting Palpatine stay dead. Anakin fails to bring balance to the Force. Rey ends up doing that.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2020 18:06:43 GMT
how did TROS retcon the chosen one? By not letting Palpatine stay dead. Anakin fails to bring balance to the Force. Rey ends up doing that. Except that contradicts the movie...again. Direct quote from the movie...seen it so many times I can direct quote it now, from memory. Anakin: Bring back the balance Rey, as I did. Kind of hard to retcon something the movie itself references...and dead or not Anakin's sacrifices did balance the Force.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 25, 2020 18:06:46 GMT
The prequels had very little issues with fight choreography, other than the Sheev vs. Windu scene... However, the sequels make no sense in most ways, characterization a chief problem. Yes, the Kylo dueling style being aggressive & direct is cool & makes sense. As his grandfather before him, subtlety & finesse are not his lightsaber form. The thing with Rey is; her style should be like a hybrid of Maul & Sidious. Very strong and aggressive but with just enough technique that she's virtually unbeatable. That would have made for some truly clever & awesome swordfights in the sequel trilogy... instead of what we actually got And using a double bladed lightsaber. She is use to fighting with a staff and a double blade is similar, she would be more familiar with it than a single.
I think they gave her a double blade at the end, a little too late. She only ignited one end of it with that yellow lightsaber. The handle looks like it could be a double blade, the handle doesn't look like something for a single.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 25, 2020 18:10:02 GMT
how did TROS retcon the chosen one? It didn’t. Disney even said Anakin is still the Chosen One of the prophecy. Of course he's the Chosen One, stupid Disney. Unless they want to retcon the first 3 movies. He did bring balance to the Force by cutting down the Jedi population to an equal size to the dark side.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 18:12:27 GMT
how did TROS retcon the chosen one? By not letting Palpatine stay dead. Anakin fails to bring balance to the Force. Rey ends up doing that. The Sith were supposed to end when Anakin kills Palpatine. Clearly this did not happen in TROS.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 18:22:59 GMT
By not letting Palpatine stay dead. Anakin fails to bring balance to the Force. Rey ends up doing that. Except that contradicts the movie...again. Direct quote from the movie...seen it so many times I can direct quote it now, from memory. Anakin: Bring back the balance Rey, as I did. Kind of hard to retcon something the movie itself references...and dead or not Anakin's sacrifices did balance the Force. Well, who am I to dispute a line in a movie, despite the movie directly contradicting the first two trilogies...
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 18:24:37 GMT
It didn’t. Disney even said Anakin is still the Chosen One of the prophecy. Of course he's the Chosen One, stupid Disney. Unless they want to retcon the first 3 movies. He did bring balance to the Force by cutting down the Jedi population to an equal size to the dark side. He brought balance to the force by destroying the last Sith Master, and then, as the Sith Apprentice, dying himself. Ending the Sith line.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2020 18:29:27 GMT
Except that contradicts the movie...again. Direct quote from the movie...seen it so many times I can direct quote it now, from memory. Anakin: Bring back the balance Rey, as I did. Kind of hard to retcon something the movie itself references...and dead or not Anakin's sacrifices did balance the Force. Well, who am I to dispute a line in a movie, despite the movie directly contradicting the first two trilogies... Again, how? Now you've shifted the goal posts from Episode 6 to all of them. And, like it or not, that line makes a great deal of sense. Anakin balanced the Force, Sideous was dead/ defeated thanks to his actions, the Sith were destroyed...both then and in some way in Episode 9, thanks to his actions. The Jedi were allowed to have the reset button hit because they too had become a source of unbalance...now they can start over.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 25, 2020 18:36:14 GMT
Of course he's the Chosen One, stupid Disney. Unless they want to retcon the first 3 movies. He did bring balance to the Force by cutting down the Jedi population to an equal size to the dark side. He brought balance to the force by destroying the last Sith Master, and then, as the Sith Apprentice, dying himself. Ending the Sith line. Guess this is a matter of interpretation. Even the Jedi couldn't figure it out. Bringing balance by eliminating all the dark side users isn't balance, you just made it light side heavy again. I'm sure this is more of a philosophy thing, but there will always be good and evil, light and dark in the universe, you can't have one without the other.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2020 19:09:55 GMT
He brought balance to the force by destroying the last Sith Master, and then, as the Sith Apprentice, dying himself. Ending the Sith line. Guess this is a matter of interpretation. Even the Jedi couldn't figure it out. Bringing balance by eliminating all the dark side users isn't balance, you just made it light side heavy again. I'm sure this is more of a philosophy thing, but there will always be good and evil, light and dark in the universe, you can't have one without the other. more then that but I never saw the dark side as especially evil, just how the Sith used it and their dogmatic adherence to it, much like the dogmatic adherence to the Jedi and the light.
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 20:08:17 GMT
He brought balance to the force by destroying the last Sith Master, and then, as the Sith Apprentice, dying himself. Ending the Sith line. Guess this is a matter of interpretation. Even the Jedi couldn't figure it out. Bringing balance by eliminating all the dark side users isn't balance, you just made it light side heavy again. I'm sure this is more of a philosophy thing, but there will always be good and evil, light and dark in the universe, you can't have one without the other. So then how did Rey "bring balance" to the Force? She killed the last Sith (again, since the first one didn't seem to take) Essentially, Rey did EXACTLY what Anakin did in Episode VI, but "awesomer"
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 21:57:05 GMT
The Chosen One was supposed to destroy the Sith. Sure the Jedi didn't anticipate that he would fall to the Dark Side, but it was stated that Anakin was destined to end the Sith.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 21:58:45 GMT
Anakin was meant to destroy the Sith, I don't understand why Disney would feel the need to bring back Palpatine when they know that people would ask questions about Anakin's role. If anything it diminishes his entire arc, which is why I felt that Disney is retconning the prequels.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2020 22:00:42 GMT
Another reason I like Reylo in the end, it undoes the destructive damage the prequels did. Once more love is a redemptive force. Reylo is an abusive relationship. After seeing that scene, I'm just going to ignore any feminist outcry over the treatment of female when they conveniently so obvious.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 25, 2020 23:05:01 GMT
According to the lore, nobody knows the exact text of the prophecy. It’s been a matter of debate for the Jedi for at least 1200 years, to the point most didn’t even heed it until Qui-Gon found Anakin. Not to mention other groups having their own version of the prophecy, from the Sith to neutral groups like the Witches of Dathomir and of course the Ones. When Obi-Wan researches it he said all he could find concretely was that they would bring balance to the Force, even noting it doesn’t even say it had to be a Jedi. So with that in mind Anakin still fulfills the prophecy completely.
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Post by warden on Jan 25, 2020 23:08:13 GMT
Reylo, the thing that has surpassed the levels of terrible of Cullen and Bella from twilight.
that's the only thing you need to know about it.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2020 23:17:47 GMT
Anakin was meant to destroy the Sith, I don't understand why Disney would feel the need to bring back Palpatine when they know that people would ask questions about Anakin's role. If anything it diminishes his entire arc, which is why I felt that Disney is retconning the prequels. I don't feel his arc was diminished, if anything it was enhhanced. And the 'Anakin is destined to destory the Sith' smacks of Jedi propaganda. Yoda even kind of admits as much in Episode 3. Even still, he did end the Sith...from a certain point of view.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 26, 2020 0:39:45 GMT
Anakin was meant to destroy the Sith, I don't understand why Disney would feel the need to bring back Palpatine when they know that people would ask questions about Anakin's role. If anything it diminishes his entire arc, which is why I felt that Disney is retconning the prequels. I don't feel his arc was diminished, if anything it was enhhanced. And the 'Anakin is destined to destory the Sith' smacks of Jedi propaganda. Yoda even kind of admits as much in Episode 3. Even still, he did end the Sith...from a certain point of view. That was IU speculation, George Lucas has said that Anakin is the Chosen One destined to destroy the Sith. The fact that Palpatine came back ruined no matter how much the narrative insists that he "died once."
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Post by mybudgee on Jan 26, 2020 0:55:48 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2020 1:26:55 GMT
I don't feel his arc was diminished, if anything it was enhhanced. And the 'Anakin is destined to destory the Sith' smacks of Jedi propaganda. Yoda even kind of admits as much in Episode 3. Even still, he did end the Sith...from a certain point of view. That was IU speculation, George Lucas has said that Anakin is the Chosen One destined to destroy the Sith. The fact that Palpatine came back ruined no matter how much the narrative insists that he "died once." Now that I have the time to delve into this topic properly...lets. I am going to preface what I am going to say by bringing up two relevant points, one being my speculation...one I am treating as fact. 1. It is my interpretation of Episodes 3 and 6 that Anakin DID bring Balance to the Force. TROS did not change, retcon, diminish, or alter the fact. Without Anakin's journey and sacrifices, first by crippling the corrupt and dogmatic Jedi Order of the Clone Wars, and then by destroying the evil of the Sith in Episode 6...there would be no balance in the Force. Whether or not that event itself balanced the Force and then it became unbalanced later or it merely created the circumstances for a balanced Force is a matter of some debate. 2. Lucas's original plan was for a 9 episode Star Wars saga...this is well established and documented and why Disney finished what he started. At the end of Episode 6 Anakin was dead...but given George Lucas's statments on the matter (Star Wars is like poetry...it rymes)...and given how important the Jedi, Sith, and Skywalkers were for the first 6 episodes the Force would either become unbalanced again in Episode 7 or someone would need to 'finish what Anakin started.' The exact form this would take is anyone's guess. So keeping this in mind how does it still work with Episode 9, Palpatine's return and Rey seemingly having balanced the Force. Well, again, either the Force needed to be balanced AGAIN...hence Anakin still did it but then it became unbalanced because the prophecy said nothing about FUTURE threats...or the Force wasn't balanced at the end of Return afterall but Anakin created the future circumstances for it to BE balanced. All the prophecy said was that he would BRING balance to the Force...and either way he did. His sacrifice was not in vein. In either case the balance in the Force was represented by the exisistance of the dyad in the Force. The connection that Rey and Kylo Ren formed (not a romantic one) was the Force, and themselves, attempting to balance itself. This dyad I do not believe could've been created during the height of the power of the Jedi or the Sith because both organizations had become so dogmatic and so much in love with their viewpoint that it wouldn't have occured to either one of them that the dyad, likely, needed both sides of the Force to function. Had anyone tried to form a dyad who was a Jedi or Sith during the Clone Wars would've been killed or exiled. Thus when Anakin cut both organizations down to size it let the two of them rise, and with the end of TROS the two sides of the dyad have now been merged into one being which represents the balance in the Force. Whether it will stay balanced is anyone's guess, but then maybe that is all the Force needed?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2020 1:47:45 GMT
I did have the thought that this effectively makes Anakin the father, Rey the daughter, and Ben the son from the Mortis story...but this part of the theory opens up more problems then it solves for me so I don't actually believe it.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 26, 2020 3:37:57 GMT
Anakin was meant to destroy the Sith, I don't understand why Disney would feel the need to bring back Palpatine when they know that people would ask questions about Anakin's role. If anything it diminishes his entire arc, which is why I felt that Disney is retconning the prequels. What's funny is that when the Prequel Trilogy introduced The Chosen One subplot (1999), The Dark Empire's (1992) canonicity came into dispute. The discrepancy was soon handwaved away with the rationale that Anakin created Luke and Leia who's defeat of Palpatine was technically a double tap by Anakin from beyond the grave. Basically Anakin busting a nut in Padme ensured that Palpatine stayed dead. TL;DR , JJ and KK are hacks.
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