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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 26, 2020 3:46:47 GMT
Imagine seeing RoTS in theaters on the release date, and every one in the audience being silenced by the randomness of a senior citizen doing a 360º corkscrew summersault while screeching like a demon. Been there. Done that It felt like it was only yesterday but those were some good times. People like to shit on Windu's entourage but Palpatine's opening salvo was random as hell. It's unrinonically my favorite duel of the film.
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Post by skekSil on Jan 26, 2020 11:52:38 GMT
Kylo Ren is at it again:
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Post by cypherj on Jan 26, 2020 13:38:02 GMT
Been there. Done that It felt like it was only yesterday but those were some good times. People like to shit on Windu's entourage but Palpatine's opening salvo was random as hell. It's unrinonically my favorite duel of the film. The only thing that was random was the 720 degree corkscrew, and it's not like he killed anyone with that. He lands in front of them and Windu seems to be the only one who takes any kind of defensive stance. Palapatine just rears back a delivers a normal thrust to kill the first Jedi, who is looking in another direction for whatever reason, and then turns around and immediately kills another Jedi with a normal strike. Then Fisto and Windu have him two on one, and he just strikes down Fisto in normal combat. If they had been in one of the meetings they used to have with him before they knew who he was and he just started killing Jedi out of nowhere I could maybe see it. But they knew who he was. That's why they sent four members of the council. He pulled the lightsaber out in front of them, said something and ignited it before he attacked and the first two that got struck down were portrayed as clearly being not ready to fight. Sidious is written as being insanely fast in the books, but in the movie is just looks like he strikes down three Jedi masters in like five seconds with normal attacks.
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 26, 2020 17:11:14 GMT
You beat me to it.
It was awesome
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 26, 2020 17:34:37 GMT
According to the lore, nobody knows the exact text of the prophecy. It’s been a matter of debate for the Jedi for at least 1200 years, to the point most didn’t even heed it until Qui-Gon found Anakin. Not to mention other groups having their own version of the prophecy, from the Sith to neutral groups like the Witches of Dathomir and of course the Ones. When Obi-Wan researches it he said all he could find concretely was that they would bring balance to the Force, even noting it doesn’t even say it had to be a Jedi. So with that in mind Anakin still fulfills the prophecy completely. Creepiest part of Rise of Skywalker voices that come to Rey's aid is that Anakin still asserts that he brought balance. And I'm just, like, why does "balance" involve this much slaughter? *groan* P.S. It would have been a pretty good arc for the trilogy if Luke had acknowledged the unbalance in TLJ as part of the reason that the Jedi Order had to die, or be reformed to embrace the The Dark Side, as part of their teachings. Who knows, maybe that is in JJ's longer cut of the movie (doubt it)?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2020 18:09:51 GMT
According to the lore, nobody knows the exact text of the prophecy. It’s been a matter of debate for the Jedi for at least 1200 years, to the point most didn’t even heed it until Qui-Gon found Anakin. Not to mention other groups having their own version of the prophecy, from the Sith to neutral groups like the Witches of Dathomir and of course the Ones. When Obi-Wan researches it he said all he could find concretely was that they would bring balance to the Force, even noting it doesn’t even say it had to be a Jedi. So with that in mind Anakin still fulfills the prophecy completely. Creepiest part of Rise of Skywalker voices that come to Rey's aid is that Anakin still asserts that he brought balance. And I'm just, like, why does "balance" involve this much slaughter? *groan* P.S. It would have been a pretty good arc for the trilogy if Luke had acknowledged the unbalance in TLJ as part of the reason that the Jedi Order had to die, or be reformed to embrace the The Dark Side, as part of their teachings. Who knows, maybe that is in JJ's longer cut of the movie (doubt it)? something for the sequel .
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Post by Evil on Jan 26, 2020 20:29:53 GMT
It felt like it was only yesterday but those were some good times. People like to shit on Windu's entourage but Palpatine's opening salvo was random as hell. It's unrinonically my favorite duel of the film. The only thing that was random was the 720 degree corkscrew, and it's not like he killed anyone with that. He lands in front of them and Windu seems to be the only one who takes any kind of defensive stance. Palapatine just rears back a delivers a normal thrust to kill the first Jedi, who is looking in another direction for whatever reason, and then turns around and immediately kills another Jedi with a normal strike. Then Fisto and Windu have him two on one, and he just strikes down Fisto in normal combat. If they had been in one of the meetings they used to have with him before they knew who he was and he just started killing Jedi out of nowhere I could maybe see it. But they knew who he was. That's why they sent four members of the council. He pulled the lightsaber out in front of them, said something and ignited it before he attacked and the first two that got struck down were portrayed as clearly being not ready to fight. Sidious is written as being insanely fast in the books, but in the movie is just looks like he strikes down three Jedi masters in like five seconds with normal attacks. This. Having Sidious sucker punch three jedi masters was a fine idea and totally in character. Having Sidious viciously demonstrate to both the audience and the jedi themselves how weak and pathetic the jedi order has become by killing them in mere moments like its was nothing was a damn good idea. The problem lies with how it was done. It would have been far far better to have Sidious crush them like bugs with the force itself, with Windu only managing to survive the initial attack and turn it into a lightsabre duel by closing the gap while Sidious was butchering the others. To use an analogy, have the jedi depicted as idiots who brought knives to a gun fight. Hell, if George absolutely had to have him use his lightsabre to drive toy sales then there's ways to combine that with force use. Example: Have him turn the nearest jedi into a literal meatshield, force choking him with his left hand while butchering the jedi with the sabre in his right hand, while the jedi fail to react in time due to not wanting to cut through the meat shield.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 26, 2020 21:25:08 GMT
Reylo, the thing that has surpassed the levels of terrible of Cullen and Bella from twilight. that's the only thing you need to know about it. It was pretty disappointing to see that the creeps that comprise the Reylo camp got their way. I mean....who in their right mind really finds satisfaction in the narrative that the genocidal space nazi scumbag gets to have such a perfunctory “redemption” arc and parting kiss? Christ, I hate these movies.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2020 21:52:33 GMT
Reylo, the thing that has surpassed the levels of terrible of Cullen and Bella from twilight. that's the only thing you need to know about it. It was pretty disappointing to see that the creeps that comprise the Reylo camp got their way. I mean....who in their right mind really finds satisfaction in the narrative that the genocidal space nazi scumbag gets to have such a perfunctory “redemption” arc and parting kiss? Christ, I hate these movies. Was Vader's redemption arc perfunctory? We didn't even hear one whif about him being redeemable until the final movie afterall. Besides the message is an important one especially in this day an age. ANYONE can be redeemable. ANYONE can be corrupted. ANYONE can make better choices despite their circumstances. The sequels are about failure and success and identity and making the right choice.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 26, 2020 22:16:58 GMT
It was pretty disappointing to see that the creeps that comprise the Reylo camp got their way. I mean....who in their right mind really finds satisfaction in the narrative that the genocidal space nazi scumbag gets to have such a perfunctory “redemption” arc and parting kiss? Christ, I hate these movies. Was Vader's redemption arc perfunctory? We didn't even hear one whif about him being redeemable until the final movie afterall. Besides the message is an important one especially in this day an age. ANYONE can be redeemable. ANYONE can be corrupted. ANYONE can make better choices despite their circumstances. The sequels are about failure and success and identity and making the right choice. Actually, yes I consider Vader’s redemption to feel a bit sudden as well, even with the idea established in the previous film that his intention was to supplant the Emperor and have Luke by his side. But we were basically at the end, something had to happen. Too bad they decided to ruin even that with a Hayden force ghost. But, that doesn’t really excuse what went on here either. Any failings from the old trilogy is not something that makes failings here better just because of a broader perspective. Frankly, Zuko from motherflipping Avatar: The Last Airbender had a vastly superior redemption arc than Vader could ever hope to get, or the creepy dick from the new thing. The idea that anyone can be redeemed is an important theme to keep in mind in any kind of character-driven story, but that redemption also needs to feel earned using proper support from the narrative. The problem with Ren’s “redemption” is that it feels less like a progression of character more than pathetic fanservice. Considering how much of the film feels like a direct rebuttal of The Last Jedi, that only exacerbates that feeling. It’s as if Abrams was dead set on taking a bantha steamer on top of anything and everything TLJ to appease fans, which in theory I like because I absolutely detest that movie, but in itself does itself no favors with the standard issue Abrams-level pacing issues.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2020 22:20:27 GMT
This is especially good since the message of the prequels was 'anyone with human emotions is doomed'...if the Jedi are right anyways.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2020 22:23:20 GMT
Was Vader's redemption arc perfunctory? We didn't even hear one whif about him being redeemable until the final movie afterall. Besides the message is an important one especially in this day an age. ANYONE can be redeemable. ANYONE can be corrupted. ANYONE can make better choices despite their circumstances. The sequels are about failure and success and identity and making the right choice. Actually, yes I consider Vader’s redemption to feel a bit sudden as well, even with the idea established in the previous film that his intention was to supplant the Emperor and have Luke by his side. But we were basically at the end, something had to happen. Too bad they decided to ruin even that with a Hayden force ghost. But, that doesn’t really excuse what went on here either. Any failings from the old trilogy is not something that makes failings here better just because of a broader perspective. Frankly, Zuko from motherflipping Avatar: The Last Airbender had a vastly superior redemption arc than Vader could ever hope to get, or the creepy dick from the new thing. The idea that anyone can be redeemed is an important theme to keep in mind in any kind of character-driven story, but that redemption also needs to feel earned using proper support from the narrative. The problem with Ren’s “redemption” is that it feels less like a progression of character more than pathetic fanservice. Considering how much of the film feels like a direct rebuttal of The Last Jedi, that only exacerbates that feeling. It’s as if Abrams was dead set on taking a bantha steamer on top of anything and everything TLJ to appease fans, which in theory I like because I absolutely detest that movie, but in itself does itself no favors with the standard issue Abrams-level pacing issues. the only narrative choice that was thrown under the bus was the Rose Tico arc. TROS wasn't a rejection of TLJ, but a celebration.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 26, 2020 23:29:19 GMT
It felt like it was only yesterday but those were some good times. People like to shit on Windu's entourage but Palpatine's opening salvo was random as hell. It's unrinonically my favorite duel of the film. The only thing that was random was the 720 degree corkscrew, and it's not like he killed anyone with that. He lands in front of them and Windu seems to be the only one who takes any kind of defensive stance. Palapatine just rears back a delivers a normal thrust to kill the first Jedi, who is looking in another direction for whatever reason, and then turns around and immediately kills another Jedi with a normal strike. Then Fisto and Windu have him two on one, and he just strikes down Fisto in normal combat. If they had been in one of the meetings they used to have with him before they knew who he was and he just started killing Jedi out of nowhere I could maybe see it. But they knew who he was. That's why they sent four members of the council. He pulled the lightsaber out in front of them, said something and ignited it before he attacked and the first two that got struck down were portrayed as clearly being not ready to fight. Sidious is written as being insanely fast in the books, but in the movie is just looks like he strikes down three Jedi masters in like five seconds with normal attacks. The problem was that Lucas was adamant on using McDiarmid for most of the shots, and should have just went full stunt double/CGI because Mcdiarmid's lack of athleticism limited the scene's choreography. I suspect that his unwillingness to show the force users actively using the Force Speed ability after the criticisms of how awkward it looked in TPM probably played a part in his decision making for the scene. Despite what Lucas was trying to convey with Palpatine's speed we are left with a scene that looks like Windu had recruited a bunch of drunks off the street who were disoriented by Palp's corkscrew spin, but i still like that duel.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 26, 2020 23:32:39 GMT
Was Vader's redemption arc perfunctory? We didn't even hear one whif about him being redeemable until the final movie afterall. Besides the message is an important one especially in this day an age. ANYONE can be redeemable. ANYONE can be corrupted. ANYONE can make better choices despite their circumstances. The sequels are about failure and success and identity and making the right choice. Actually, yes I consider Vader’s redemption to feel a bit sudden as well, even with the idea established in the previous film that his intention was to supplant the Emperor and have Luke by his side. But we were basically at the end, something had to happen. Too bad they decided to ruin even that with a Hayden force ghost. But, that doesn’t really excuse what went on here either. Any failings from the old trilogy is not something that makes failings here better just because of a broader perspective. Frankly, Zuko from motherflipping Avatar: The Last Airbender had a vastly superior redemption arc than Vader could ever hope to get, or the creepy dick from the new thing. The idea that anyone can be redeemed is an important theme to keep in mind in any kind of character-driven story, but that redemption also needs to feel earned using proper support from the narrative. The problem with Ren’s “redemption” is that it feels less like a progression of character more than pathetic fanservice. Considering how much of the film feels like a direct rebuttal of The Last Jedi, that only exacerbates that feeling. It’s as if Abrams was dead set on taking a bantha steamer on top of anything and everything TLJ to appease fans, which in theory I like because I absolutely detest that movie, but in itself does itself no favors with the standard issue Abrams-level pacing issues. I have no idea what you're talking about
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 26, 2020 23:47:02 GMT
Actually, yes I consider Vader’s redemption to feel a bit sudden as well, even with the idea established in the previous film that his intention was to supplant the Emperor and have Luke by his side. But we were basically at the end, something had to happen. Too bad they decided to ruin even that with a Hayden force ghost. But, that doesn’t really excuse what went on here either. Any failings from the old trilogy is not something that makes failings here better just because of a broader perspective. Frankly, Zuko from motherflipping Avatar: The Last Airbender had a vastly superior redemption arc than Vader could ever hope to get, or the creepy dick from the new thing. The idea that anyone can be redeemed is an important theme to keep in mind in any kind of character-driven story, but that redemption also needs to feel earned using proper support from the narrative. The problem with Ren’s “redemption” is that it feels less like a progression of character more than pathetic fanservice. Considering how much of the film feels like a direct rebuttal of The Last Jedi, that only exacerbates that feeling. It’s as if Abrams was dead set on taking a bantha steamer on top of anything and everything TLJ to appease fans, which in theory I like because I absolutely detest that movie, but in itself does itself no favors with the standard issue Abrams-level pacing issues. I have no idea what you're talking about That's who i see on my copy as well. No outdated looking cgi aliens, Vader's eyebrows grew back, no Hayden and the ewok's celebration song was glorious.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 26, 2020 23:52:27 GMT
Was Vader's redemption arc perfunctory? We didn't even hear one whif about him being redeemable until the final movie afterall. Besides the message is an important one especially in this day an age. ANYONE can be redeemable. ANYONE can be corrupted. ANYONE can make better choices despite their circumstances. The sequels are about failure and success and identity and making the right choice. Actually, yes I consider Vader’s redemption to feel a bit sudden as well, even with the idea established in the previous film that his intention was to supplant the Emperor and have Luke by his side. But we were basically at the end, something had to happen. Too bad they decided to ruin even that with a Hayden force ghost. But, that doesn’t really excuse what went on here either. Any failings from the old trilogy is not something that makes failings here better just because of a broader perspective. Frankly, Zuko from motherflipping Avatar: The Last Airbender had a vastly superior redemption arc than Vader could ever hope to get, or the creepy dick from the new thing. The idea that anyone can be redeemed is an important theme to keep in mind in any kind of character-driven story, but that redemption also needs to feel earned using proper support from the narrative. The problem with Ren’s “redemption” is that it feels less like a progression of character more than pathetic fanservice. Considering how much of the film feels like a direct rebuttal of The Last Jedi, that only exacerbates that feeling. It’s as if Abrams was dead set on taking a bantha steamer on top of anything and everything TLJ to appease fans, which in theory I like because I absolutely detest that movie, but in itself does itself no favors with the standard issue Abrams-level pacing issues. Absolutely. Redemption arcs in Star Wars are hard to deal with because they do not involve any kind of acceptance of responsibility. The villain being "redeemed" just dies before he can face justice. Ren's "redemption" is SO very problematic because he was the Supreme Commander of the First Order, basically the one in charge of enacting all of the suffering inflicted by that organization, and only changed when beaten/killed/healed by his mother and girlfriend - which is... just... all kinds of weird. I asked this before, when Kylo turned on the First Order, that was an organization that believed in all manner of racist authoritarian ideology, and that he was the leader of. What exactly was he rejecting? We know Vader had a moment of compassion when looking at his life and not wanting that to perpetuate with his son Luke. Kylo was just kind of obsessed with Rey - is that... like... healthy or admirable?
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 27, 2020 0:17:41 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Jan 27, 2020 0:20:31 GMT
Actually, yes I consider Vader’s redemption to feel a bit sudden as well, even with the idea established in the previous film that his intention was to supplant the Emperor and have Luke by his side. But we were basically at the end, something had to happen. Too bad they decided to ruin even that with a Hayden force ghost. But, that doesn’t really excuse what went on here either. Any failings from the old trilogy is not something that makes failings here better just because of a broader perspective. Frankly, Zuko from motherflipping Avatar: The Last Airbender had a vastly superior redemption arc than Vader could ever hope to get, or the creepy dick from the new thing. The idea that anyone can be redeemed is an important theme to keep in mind in any kind of character-driven story, but that redemption also needs to feel earned using proper support from the narrative. The problem with Ren’s “redemption” is that it feels less like a progression of character more than pathetic fanservice. Considering how much of the film feels like a direct rebuttal of The Last Jedi, that only exacerbates that feeling. It’s as if Abrams was dead set on taking a bantha steamer on top of anything and everything TLJ to appease fans, which in theory I like because I absolutely detest that movie, but in itself does itself no favors with the standard issue Abrams-level pacing issues. Absolutely. Redemption arcs in Star Wars are hard to deal with because they do not involve any kind of acceptance of responsibility. The villain being "redeemed" just dies before he can face justice. Ren's "redemption" is SO very problematic because he has the Supreme Commander of the First Order, basically the one in charge of enacting all of the suffering inflicted by that organization, and only changed when beaten/killed/healed by his mother and girlfriend - which is... just... all kinds of weird. I asked this before, when Kylo turned on the First Order, that was an organization that believed in all manner of racist authoritarian ideology, and that he was the leader of. What exactly was he rejecting? We know Vader had a moment of compassion when looking at his life and not wanting that to perpetuate with his son Luke. Kylo was just kind of obsessed with Rey - is that... like... healthy or admirable? its a fair point, well a couple of them. First off though I think someone can double down on bad behavior if they feel torn about it because they've convinced themselves the bad behavior is what will make them whole. What I loved about Rens is he just decided that pain wasn't worth it anymore and was like 'screw this' literally. Second despite its problems love being a redemptive force instead of the force of all evil is appreciated.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 27, 2020 14:57:46 GMT
This is especially good since the message of the prequels was 'anyone with human emotions is doomed'...if the Jedi are right anyways. The idea was more that: if one starts acting based on emotions, they'll make the wrong decisions, decisions that lead to pain and suffering. A Jedi, because of the vast power they wield, acting in such a way would lead to much more terrible suffering, and so the Jedi practiced discipline and detachment. It basically means a Jedi shouldn't act out of spite or selfishness. This is good advice for the real world as well to avoid escalating conflicts.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 28, 2020 3:41:09 GMT
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Post by Iakus on Jan 28, 2020 4:29:40 GMT
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Post by smilesja on Jan 28, 2020 4:34:35 GMT
I don't think that's true, Lucas has been butting heads with Disney and wasn't even invited to TROS premiere. His relationship with Disney is probably severed save for a few director cameos.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 28, 2020 7:00:46 GMT
Sigh...honestly he can probably get away with directing a minor side story but other than that I don't want him involved. Not in anything Disney is treating as a tent pole event, not with full control, and certainly not in charge at Lucasfilm again.
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Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,551
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Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
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Noxluxe
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Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 28, 2020 10:03:38 GMT
I'm GM'ing my group's first experimental session of Edge of the Empire in a few days, and really looking forward to it.
Reading through the rules, I very much like the idea of players getting to suggest what sorts of beneficial side effects their rolls might have, pending GM approval. I've also only seen the combat in action in youtube videos, but it seems rather in the Star Wars spirit. Flashy laser battles where enemy goons are heroically decimated with constant quirky mishaps and lucky breaks making the whole thing more fun and dramatic without the nitty gritty number crunching of DnD.
My only serious concerns are with the exotic dice symbols maybe slowing things down during the first few rolls, and the players either completely steamrolling or getting massacred by waves of enemies because I don't have a handle on appropriate encounter difficulty yet.
I'm starting the players off on a waystation by a remote Outer Rim asteroid belt, bound and caged in a storeroom behind the cantina after having been sedated, waiting to be sold as slaves to a local Hutt clan or Exchange-equivalent.
They'll have to either get themselves out or enlist the abused teenage daughter of the owner to escape the cantina, get their stolen equipment back from the general store, salvage their ship from the junk trader and unlock the hangar bay airlock while evading or fighting off the petty thugs and locals trying to corner them, and maybe make off with some unrefined fuel from the asteroids to sell for their trouble if they're clever. And potentially the cantina owner's daughter, if they're inclined to find a better placement for her.
They'll essentially just have to escape capture, get their stuff back and optionally rescue a little girl from asshole hillbillies. But in space.
I'm currently debating whether to throw in a plot hook in the form of an affable undercover Imperial Intelligence officer - or maybe even Sith Inquisitor - investigating the sudden disappearance of one of her agents from the station and looking to recruit capable individuals to help extract them, or otherwise assist her in bringing "order and prosperity" to the sector. With some tasty intel on her ship that the Rebellion could definitely use, if the players lean in that direction.
Two of the five characters are Force sensitive, a Miralan seer and a Kyuzo space pilot, but only one of them even received youngling-level training before the formation of the Empire and they both favor the subtler Force powers, so there's no reason to fear the game coming to revolve around that. The others are a disgraced and exiled Mandalorian looking for purpose, a Twi'lek smuggler and a Verpine droid technician.
It's my first time GM'ing outside the D20 comfort zone, so I'm a bit nervous. But I figure running classic DnD-style adventures and just adding the Star Wars template on top is a good starting point, seeing as the original trilogy drew so much on heroic fantasy.
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