inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 2:44:44 GMT
23,401
smilesja
14,303
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jan 29, 2020 19:59:19 GMT
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 4:16:22 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 29, 2020 20:01:54 GMT
How come people aren't talking about how TLJ threw out the stuff TFA had established. It's not like Rian Johnson left a lot for JJ to work with. Aside from the Knights of Ren it didn't...
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 29, 2020 21:28:19 GMT
Sure Luke learned much of this too, but Rey has one important advantage he didnt. He never really got a chance to see his heroes as failures, the closest he came was mocking Obi-Wan's certain point of view. But Rey has seen Luke fail and make a tragic mistake, has seen that a strict adherence to the light and certain parts of Jedi philosophy can lead to tragedy. Yeah, because he never came face to face with the fact that his father, whom he was led to believe was a heroic Jedi betrayed and murdered by Vader, was actually Vader himself, the ultimate war criminal...
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Jan 29, 2020 21:54:53 GMT
How come people aren't talking about how TLJ threw out the stuff TFA had established. It's not like Rian Johnson left a lot for JJ to work with. Aside from the Knights of Ren it didn't...
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Jan 29, 2020 23:27:25 GMT
So... Rey's arc sounds virtually identical to what we got in the movie... a lot of that same anger and search for idenity and battling with the past. … Her acquisition of power seems like it costs more in this. Also, this plot brings in the failings of the Jedi philosophy. ... Luke...well its not actually confirmed we would've gotten a lot more then him, but it is certinly implied he would've had a MUCH larger role in the 'original' Episode 9, and we had enough bad ass Luke throughout Episodes 4-9 to please me so...again JJ is the only one who seems to know how to balance him properly. … Yeah, I thought Luke was fine in TLJ. If people want another Luke, there are still plenty of Legends novels. ... Kylo killing Rey's parents probably would've been alright but it also opens up a boat load of questions. … If they happened to be in that village on Jakku that was slaughtered at the beginning of TFA, or on a planet in the Hosnian system. Kylo's killed a lot of people, it is pretty easy to believe he killed her parent accidentally, and he/she found out. ... And Hux arc, hard to see how it could've been any better then what we got in TROS...especially if he had NOT betrayed Kylo. Easy, if the story took him seriously as a spy acting to undermine Kylo, and gather power for himself. This is what I'm talking about. If they had made it a serious storyline and developed it I would not have had an issue. But like many things in the movie it was throwaway. Put out to serve a purpose at a specific time, and then discarded with no other mention. He told the resistance that Palpatine was alive, and helped Poe, Finn, Chewy and Rey escape before being unceremoniously killed for comedic purposes. Nothing that could ever be taken seriously. He wasn't undermining Kylo the entire movie, or making him look incompetent so he could usurp power. I would have loved to see a suspicious Kylo, not knowing who to trust while he tried prove himself as Supreme Leader, and faithfully committed to the cause. All the time torn by Rey trying to save him. Then when Hux says he's unworthy and tries to usurp leadership, have that look of 'I did this to you'. Or flat out say it honestly. Then Kylo could have still been disillusioned, left the first order and ended up being redeemed. You honestly didn't even need Palpatine at all. To start the storyline and then not even have some climax of it where Hux and Kylo lay it all out was just ridiculous. Even if it was no more than Hux saying I started the First Order, but I would see it burn before I give it to you, it would have been better then the half done storyline we got. Not even half done. Like a 1/100th done.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 2:44:44 GMT
23,401
smilesja
14,303
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jan 30, 2020 0:55:38 GMT
How come people aren't talking about how TLJ threw out the stuff TFA had established. It's not like Rian Johnson left a lot for JJ to work with. Aside from the Knights of Ren it didn't... Of course it did: Finn, The New Republic, Johnson instead focused on trashing Luke Skywalker in order to make Kylo and Rey look good and made the galaxy feel smaller.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 4:16:22 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 30, 2020 1:17:19 GMT
Aside from the Knights of Ren it didn't... Seriously though I know Chekov's gun is a thing but that does not pre suppose it has to be used in a certain way and every major plot point in TFA got expanded upon or paid off. Just because it didn't match the hype or the fan theories doesen't mean it didn't exist. Snoke? He was just a means of Kylo getting power and then we discover he was a puppet of Palpatine...there was some set up for it to. Luke? His character got expanded upon Rey? Ditto. Kylo? Still ditto. And while the Knights of Ren didn't get any mention or screen time or expansion well JJs initial idea was probably to just create a new dark side organization to battle the New Jedi. Maybe an interesting idea but I can't feel sorry that Rian focused on what was important: Rey, Luke, and Kylo's respective character arcs and their relationship with one another. Aside from the Knights of Ren it didn't... Of course it did: Finn, The New Republic, Johnson instead focused on trashing Luke Skywalker in order to make Kylo and Rey look good and made the galaxy feel smaller. Huh? Finn got an interesting character arc, probably the second most compelling in the film IMO. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA...that was made very clear...in TFA. As for making the galaxy 'smaller', you are right but really making the galaxy bigger in the prequels only led to Star Wars loosing its focus on its characters.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 2:44:44 GMT
23,401
smilesja
14,303
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jan 30, 2020 4:34:53 GMT
Are you crazy? If anything the Prequels expanded on the Galaxy while maintaining and unique characters. Such as Qui Qon Jinn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett and filled with interesting and imaginative planets that the sequels WISHED they've made. All Finn got was a repeat of his character arc, there was no brooding over of his injury by Kylo Ren if anything he was treated like a joke. From being tasered by Rose, from being lectured about oppression and slavery even though FINN WAS A BRAINWASHED SOLDIER SINCE HE WAS BABY. Every action that Finn did was treated like he was the worst person in the world from when Finn chose to sacrifice his life for his friends but gets lectured AGAIN by Rose and gets called a dummy.
Finn had an interesting and unique setup not seen in the Star Wars movies and he gets reduced to the stereotypical comedic relief and never recovered. If anything Johnson did him dirty and it's a disgrace seeing a black heroic character get regulated to the background just so Rian can "humanize" the genocidal, entitled manchild who tells a woman strapped next to him that he "can take what he wants" and butchers a beloved character in Luke Skywalker JUST to justify Kylo's turn to the darkside, JUST to have him kill his father (which I don't even know why he hates his parents so much. The movies never even made that clear.), and this maniac is supposed to be sympathetic?! This guy is the heart and soul of the sequels and NOT Finn?! What they did to Finn was pathetic, Rian had a chance to continue what was setup, but he butchered him.
There was no reaction to Hosnian Prime being destroyed, there was no reaction from about the possible remnants of the New Republic. Rian Johnson just ignored it so he can "deconstruct" Star Wars. It's funny since out of all the "deconstructing" he did THE RESULTS WERE STILL THE SAME. IT WAS STILL REBELS VS EMPIRE, IT WAS STILL THE SAME OLD RIPPING OFF THE OT. Who was Snoke? And how did he come to prominence? Nope! Rian just killed him off without explaining ANYTHING. The Prequels never lost focus on their characters, the sequels didn't know what to do with theirs. There is no direction, no plan, it was just two directors with conflicting visions fighting each other and the result was a fractured fanbase which was arguably worse than anything the Prequels did.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 30, 2020 4:39:21 GMT
Seriously though I know Chekov's gun is a thing but that does not pre suppose it has to be used in a certain way and every major plot point in TFA got expanded upon or paid off. Just because it didn't match the hype or the fan theories doesen't mean it didn't exist. Snoke? He was just a means of Kylo getting power and then we discover he was a puppet of Palpatine...there was some set up for it to. Luke? His character got expanded upon Rey? Ditto. Kylo? Still ditto. And while the Knights of Ren didn't get any mention or screen time or expansion well JJs initial idea was probably to just create a new dark side organization to battle the New Jedi. Maybe an interesting idea but I can't feel sorry that Rian focused on what was important: Rey, Luke, and Kylo's respective character arcs and their relationship with one another. Of course it did: Finn, The New Republic, Johnson instead focused on trashing Luke Skywalker in order to make Kylo and Rey look good and made the galaxy feel smaller. Huh? Finn got an interesting character arc, probably the second most compelling in the film IMO. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA...that was made very clear...in TFA. As for making the galaxy 'smaller', you are right but really making the galaxy bigger in the prequels only led to Star Wars loosing its focus on its characters. Rian's focus was building up Rey by tearing down Luke. Finn STARTED to have an interesting arc in TFA, but then it got relegated to pointless casino-world and space horses. Oh, and capitalism is bad. New Republic being destroyed is just more of Disney's lack of creativity. They're just copying episodes IV-VI, but badly.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 30, 2020 4:44:09 GMT
Are you crazy? If anything the Prequels expanded on the Galaxy while maintaining and unique characters. Such as Qui Qon Jinn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett and filled with interesting and imaginative planets that the sequels WISHED they've made. All Finn got was a repeat of his character arc, there was no brooding over of his injury by Kylo Ren if anything he was treated like a joke. From being tasered by Rose, from being lectured about oppression and slavery even though FINN WAS A BRAINWASHED SOLDIER SINCE HE WAS BABY. Every action that Finn did was treated like he was the worst person in the world from when Finn chose to sacrifice his life for his friends but gets lectured AGAIN by Rose and gets called a dummy. Finn had an interesting and unique setup not seen in the Star Wars movies and he gets reduced to the stereotypical comedic relief and never recovered. If anything Johnson did him dirty and it's a disgrace seeing a black heroic character get regulated to the background just so Rian can "humanize" the genocidal, entitled manchild who tells a woman strapped next to him that he "can take what he wants" and butchers a beloved figure in Luke Skywalker JUST to justify Kylo's turn to the darkside, JUST to have him kill his father (which I don't even know why he hates his parents so much. The movies never even made that clear.), and this maniac is supposed to be sympathetic?! This guy is the heart and soul of the sequels and NOT Finn?! What they did to Finn was pathetic, Rian had a chance to continue what was setup, but he butchered him. There was no reaction to Hosnian Prime being destroyed, there was no reaction from about the possible remnants of the New Republic. Rian Johnson just ignored it so he can "deconstruct" Star Wars. It's funny since out of all the "deconstructing" he did THE RESULTS WERE STILL THE SAME. IT WAS STILL REBELS VS EMPIRE, IT WAS STILL THE SAME OLD RIPPING OFF THE OT. Who was Snoke? And how did he come to prominence? Nope! Rian just killed him off without explaining ANYTHING. The Prequels never lost focus on their characters, the sequels didn't know what to do with theirs. There is no direction, no plan, it was just two directors with conflicting visions fighting each other and the result was a fractured fanbase which was arguably worse than anything the Prequels did.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 4:16:22 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 30, 2020 7:20:05 GMT
Are you crazy? If anything the Prequels expanded on the Galaxy while maintaining and unique characters. Such as Qui Qon Jinn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett and filled with interesting and imaginative planets that the sequels WISHED they've made. All Finn got was a repeat of his character arc, there was no brooding over of his injury by Kylo Ren if anything he was treated like a joke. From being tasered by Rose, from being lectured about oppression and slavery even though FINN WAS A BRAINWASHED SOLDIER SINCE HE WAS BABY. Every action that Finn did was treated like he was the worst person in the world from when Finn chose to sacrifice his life for his friends but gets lectured AGAIN by Rose and gets called a dummy. Finn had an interesting and unique setup not seen in the Star Wars movies and he gets reduced to the stereotypical comedic relief and never recovered. If anything Johnson did him dirty and it's a disgrace seeing a black heroic character get regulated to the background just so Rian can "humanize" the genocidal, entitled manchild who tells a woman strapped next to him that he "can take what he wants" and butchers a beloved character in Luke Skywalker JUST to justify Kylo's turn to the darkside, JUST to have him kill his father (which I don't even know why he hates his parents so much. The movies never even made that clear.), and this maniac is supposed to be sympathetic?! This guy is the heart and soul of the sequels and NOT Finn?! What they did to Finn was pathetic, Rian had a chance to continue what was setup, but he butchered him. There was no reaction to Hosnian Prime being destroyed, there was no reaction from about the possible remnants of the New Republic. Rian Johnson just ignored it so he can "deconstruct" Star Wars. It's funny since out of all the "deconstructing" he did THE RESULTS WERE STILL THE SAME. IT WAS STILL REBELS VS EMPIRE, IT WAS STILL THE SAME OLD RIPPING OFF THE OT. Who was Snoke? And how did he come to prominence? Nope! Rian just killed him off without explaining ANYTHING. The Prequels never lost focus on their characters, the sequels didn't know what to do with theirs. There is no direction, no plan, it was just two directors with conflicting visions fighting each other and the result was a fractured fanbase which was arguably worse than anything the Prequels did. Ah so that's where you get all the commentary about 'racism in the Sequels' come from. I'm sorry Finn's arc didn't resonate with you...I found it interesting and compelling. A natural extension of his character arc from TFA (nothing was solved in TFA in regards to his character) He wasn't treated as comic relief...and he was acting kind of like a dumey. (Just like Poe, Holdo, Luke, Rey, Kylo, etc etc etc.) I'm sorry Kylo's arc didn't resonate with you. I always liked his character from the beginning. (He is what Anakin should have been). And his character only got better and better with each movie. Sure he was everything that you said he was, and more...but then wasn't Anakin similar? Didn't he kill civllians and children on a fairly regular occasion? Was the failures of the Jedi Order to deal with Anakin like a common human being just 'justification' for his fall to the darkside? Luke made a tragic mistake, Ben misinterpreted in a tragic manner. The story was a sad one...and it resonated with me. And he wasn't the only heart and soul of the sequels...Luke and Rey and him were the trifecta of awesome which caried the entire Sequel Trilogy, for me. As much as I dislike Admiral Holdo I feel it is relevant to quote her here: We are the spark, that'll light the fire, that will restore the Republic. The spark is that the Resistance must survive. That is our mission. Now go back to your stations... and may the force be with us. So much for ignoring the destruction of the New Republic and what happened in the Hosnian system... As for Snoke. So what? Snoke was no one...and he was pretty much no one in TFA. Sure there was the interesting fan theories and plenty of hype around the character...is he Darth Plageuis the wise come to take his revenge?!...but that really wasn't set up in TFA, there was nothing pointing to it and since he was just Palpatine 2.0 (Literally as it turned out) Rian Johnson took the opprotunity to take out that kind of vague impersonal grand evil from Star Wars. The last thing we needed was ANOTHER Palpatine. We just needed more interesting characters playing off one another. I was interested by Kylo, I was interested in Rey, I was interested in Poe, I was interested in Finn. Andy Serkis made Snoke seem interesting and its a bit of a shame we didn't see more of him in the role, but at the end of the day...Snoke served his purpose. Again fan theories often don't match what is actually going on within these movies or works of art, nor should they...and I wish more people would remember that. Seriously though I know Chekov's gun is a thing but that does not pre suppose it has to be used in a certain way and every major plot point in TFA got expanded upon or paid off. Just because it didn't match the hype or the fan theories doesen't mean it didn't exist. Snoke? He was just a means of Kylo getting power and then we discover he was a puppet of Palpatine...there was some set up for it to. Luke? His character got expanded upon Rey? Ditto. Kylo? Still ditto. And while the Knights of Ren didn't get any mention or screen time or expansion well JJs initial idea was probably to just create a new dark side organization to battle the New Jedi. Maybe an interesting idea but I can't feel sorry that Rian focused on what was important: Rey, Luke, and Kylo's respective character arcs and their relationship with one another. Huh? Finn got an interesting character arc, probably the second most compelling in the film IMO. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA...that was made very clear...in TFA. As for making the galaxy 'smaller', you are right but really making the galaxy bigger in the prequels only led to Star Wars loosing its focus on its characters. Rian's focus was building up Rey by tearing down Luke. Finn STARTED to have an interesting arc in TFA, but then it got relegated to pointless casino-world and space horses. Oh, and capitalism is bad. New Republic being destroyed is just more of Disney's lack of creativity. They're just copying episodes IV-VI, but badly. Talked about Finn above, he had an interesting arc through 7 and 8 at the very least...so...I do feel kind of sorry for you if that's the only message you got from Finn's story. I think you're confused. There was no destruction of any major interstellar organizations within the sequels...even the Empire kicked around for a while afterwards according to both new and old canon... you might be talking about the Prequels. If you are talking about the overall relationship between the Resistance and the FO? You do have a point...sort of. I mean the players are kind of the same...except the First Order is no Empire in any sense of the word. And we have George Lucas calling Star Wars poetry so it was always going to have repitition in themes...but its a lot of the differences in the details that are important. Rey is no Luke. Kylo is no Vader. And Snoke is...well kind of discount Palpatine. To call the Sequels a direct copy of the OT does a disservice to both.
|
|
inherit
265
0
Sept 22, 2024 10:44:40 GMT
11,985
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,916
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Jan 30, 2020 9:30:58 GMT
Rian Johnson build nothing. He was busy tearing down. He left a creative hole and people keep happily dreamcrafting in it.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 30, 2020 15:28:48 GMT
Talked about Finn above, he had an interesting arc through 7 and 8 at the very least...so...I do feel kind of sorry for you if that's the only message you got from Finn's story. I think you're confused. There was no destruction of any major interstellar organizations within the sequels...even the Empire kicked around for a while afterwards according to both new and old canon... you might be talking about the Prequels. If you are talking about the overall relationship between the Resistance and the FO? You do have a point...sort of. I mean the players are kind of the same...except the First Order is no Empire in any sense of the word. And we have George Lucas calling Star Wars poetry so it was always going to have repitition in themes...but its a lot of the differences in the details that are important. Rey is no Luke. Kylo is no Vader. And Snoke is...well kind of discount Palpatine. To call the Sequels a direct copy of the OT does a disservice to both. Finn had an interesting arc in Episode VII. To the point where I thought he'd have made a better protagonist than Rey. He was utterly, utterly wasted in The Last Dumpster Fire. Much Cringe. Very disappoint. You could cut his entire storyline out of the movie and it would have impacted nothing. The First Order is basically the Empire "Now with 20% more Nazi imagery!" Seriously, JJ, Rian, and Kathleen just filed the serial numbers off the Empire, changed the uniforms slightly, and called it The First Order. I mean, for all its goofiness, at leas the Trade Federation was distinct from the Empire. Well, I agree with this, but probably not for the reasons you have...
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,910
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 30, 2020 15:36:19 GMT
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Jan 30, 2020 17:54:10 GMT
Talked about Finn above, he had an interesting arc through 7 and 8 at the very least...so...I do feel kind of sorry for you if that's the only message you got from Finn's story. I think you're confused. There was no destruction of any major interstellar organizations within the sequels...even the Empire kicked around for a while afterwards according to both new and old canon... you might be talking about the Prequels. If you are talking about the overall relationship between the Resistance and the FO? You do have a point...sort of. I mean the players are kind of the same...except the First Order is no Empire in any sense of the word. And we have George Lucas calling Star Wars poetry so it was always going to have repitition in themes...but its a lot of the differences in the details that are important. Rey is no Luke. Kylo is no Vader. And Snoke is...well kind of discount Palpatine. To call the Sequels a direct copy of the OT does a disservice to both. Finn had an interesting arc in Episode VII. To the point where I thought he'd have made a better protagonist than Rey. He was utterly, utterly wasted in The Last Dumpster Fire. Much Cringe. Very disappoint. You could cut his entire storyline out of the movie and it would have impacted nothing. The First Order is basically the Empire "Now with 20% more Nazi imagery!" Seriously, JJ, Rian, and Kathleen just filed the serial numbers off the Empire, changed the uniforms slightly, and called it The First Order. I mean, for all its goofiness, at leas the Trade Federation was distinct from the Empire.
You're giving them too much credit. They did bare minimum work differentiating the First Order from the Empire. There was more distinction between the Prequels clone forces and the Empire in the OT than there was between the First Order and the Empire.
The only main difference was that stormtroopers were kidnap victims and not clones. Not that they did much with that, even though they had someone with firsthand experience of what is was like.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 4:16:22 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 30, 2020 18:09:25 GMT
Finn had an interesting arc in Episode VII. To the point where I thought he'd have made a better protagonist than Rey. He was utterly, utterly wasted in The Last Dumpster Fire. Much Cringe. Very disappoint. You could cut his entire storyline out of the movie and it would have impacted nothing. The First Order is basically the Empire "Now with 20% more Nazi imagery!" Seriously, JJ, Rian, and Kathleen just filed the serial numbers off the Empire, changed the uniforms slightly, and called it The First Order. I mean, for all its goofiness, at leas the Trade Federation was distinct from the Empire.
You're giving them too much credit. They did bare minimum work differentiating the First Order from the Empire. There was more distinction between the Prequels clone forces and the Empire in the OT than there was between the First Order and the Empire.
The only main difference was that stormtroopers were kidnap victims and not clones. Not that they did much with that, even though they had someone with firsthand experience of what is was like.
Well that and the FO was somewhat competent...
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Jan 31, 2020 2:54:34 GMT
Of course it did: Finn, The New Republic, Johnson instead focused on trashing Luke Skywalker in order to make Kylo and Rey look good and made the galaxy feel smaller. Huh? Finn got an interesting character arc, probably the second most compelling in the film IMO. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA...that was made very clear...in TFA. As for making the galaxy 'smaller', you are right but really making the galaxy bigger in the prequels only led to Star Wars loosing its focus on its characters. *losing Also, every reasonable adult who saw the prequels knows that character development wasn't the issue. It was too much CGI & poor dialogue. The sequels, however DID suffer from crap character development. Rey, Finn & Poe go NOWHERE. They have virtually NOTHING happen to them, they have no real hurdles or personal struggles to overcome. C'mon man
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jan 31, 2020 3:06:49 GMT
Kathleen... Rian?!
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
Sept 29, 2024 4:16:22 GMT
35,101
colfoley
18,355
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 31, 2020 4:08:03 GMT
Huh? Finn got an interesting character arc, probably the second most compelling in the film IMO. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA...that was made very clear...in TFA. As for making the galaxy 'smaller', you are right but really making the galaxy bigger in the prequels only led to Star Wars loosing its focus on its characters. *losing Also, every reasonable adult who saw the prequels knows that character development wasn't the issue. It was too much CGI & poor dialogue. The sequels, however DID suffer from crap character development. Rey, Finn & Poe go NOWHERE. They have virtually NOTHING happen to them, they have no real hurdles or personal struggles to overcome. C'mon man I said nothing about lack of character development...though that might be something that happened with Anakin to make him...less then ideal...in the movies. I just said that the focus wasn't on the characters anymore and became all about big sweeping vague moments and stuff. At the end of the day the prequels were probably too big and too ambitious for their medium. I'll leave the rest with a simple 'I disagree'.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 2:44:44 GMT
23,401
smilesja
14,303
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jan 31, 2020 4:10:42 GMT
Huh? Finn got an interesting character arc, probably the second most compelling in the film IMO. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA...that was made very clear...in TFA. As for making the galaxy 'smaller', you are right but really making the galaxy bigger in the prequels only led to Star Wars loosing its focus on its characters. *losing Also, every reasonable adult who saw the prequels knows that character development wasn't the issue. It was too much CGI & poor dialogue. The sequels, however DID suffer from crap character development. Rey, Finn & Poe go NOWHERE. They have virtually NOTHING happen to them, they have no real hurdles or personal struggles to overcome. C'mon man On the subject that "there was too much cgi in the prequels" here's a video that dispels that:
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Jan 31, 2020 5:01:19 GMT
*losing Also, every reasonable adult who saw the prequels knows that character development wasn't the issue. It was too much CGI & poor dialogue. The sequels, however DID suffer from crap character development. Rey, Finn & Poe go NOWHERE. They have virtually NOTHING happen to them, they have no real hurdles or personal struggles to overcome. C'mon man On the subject that "there was too much cgi in the prequels" here's a video that dispels that: Oh, actors composited on shots of minatures, that's why all their shadows look fake and gives the impression that everything is CGIed! Doh! Also, the opening shot of Kamino, with that fake looking water, looks bad. Revenge of the Sith is definitely the best looking of set, can't complain much about the effects, but more just the story - buzz droids dude! Instead of... like... explosive shrapnel.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 2:44:44 GMT
23,401
smilesja
14,303
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jan 31, 2020 5:54:38 GMT
Kamino looks really good, really alien. The sequels could have learned from the prequels but they just had to erase their existence.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Sept 27, 2024 23:23:21 GMT
31,554
Hanako Ikezawa
22,977
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 31, 2020 6:37:51 GMT
Kamino looks really good, really alien. The sequels could have learned from the prequels but they just had to erase their existence. Oh yeah, they erased them so hard that they’re making another season of the popular series based in the prequels.
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Jan 31, 2020 7:13:59 GMT
Kamino looks really good, really alien. The sequels could have learned from the prequels but they just had to erase their existence. Maybe you're looking at the 4K version or something...
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 2:44:44 GMT
23,401
smilesja
14,303
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Jan 31, 2020 7:18:53 GMT
Kamino looks really good, really alien. The sequels could have learned from the prequels but they just had to erase their existence. Oh yeah, they erased them so hard that they’re making another season of the popular series based in the prequels. After fan outcry. It's pretty obvious that Disney is just doing the bare minimum when it comes to the prequels. They're under the impression that everybody hates them and will do whatever it takes to avoid them. I mean a Hayden Christesen force ghost to try to reach Kylo Ren could've worked marvelously for his story arc but nope! Hayden is from the prequels and he's bad for business. I mean remember during marketing for TFA they got JJ and his crew going about practical effects and real deserts, it was then I realized that these people are just doing their best ignore and erase them.
|
|