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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 4:17:07 GMT
Grievous is great, IMO. Dooku is an interesting tragic tale. Jango/Boba and the Clones was not what I expected, and that didn't bother me one bit. Yes, romance was painful and poorly done. AotC was a general mess. That said, each prequel movie is significantly better, and feels more like Star Wars, than any of the Rat Shit. I didn’t think any of these things were done well until The Clone Wars, where we really got to see all of these things shine. I think this goes to my thinking that Star Wars is actually better suited as a long epic serial than feature films. Even Anakin was better there. Way better. www.imdb.com/title/tt3473262/?ref_=ttep_ep13well it had it ups and downs downs asajj ventress redcon starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Asajj_Ventress why no starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rattataki will never roll one again in the old republic Quinlan Vos dumb down starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Quinlan_Vosbut the novel starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Disciplehad it on my kindle which was stolen, 300bucks and 150 on books well I shipped them both, though it was childish, best romance done in new cannon. hm quinlan is my fave of jedis... got about 15 comics with him. well i had now only 5 or so. well i got robbed often lately. oh and the death to Mandalorian franchise, damn you. who shall hunt jedi now the goods. hm: let us see, anakin as a character with character Ahsoka Tano story arc oh and clone troopers. well most of it. what was also wrong it is not called Moraband but Korriban and Darth Bane was way better in Mr. Drew Karpyshyn's trilogy. as was Rain and everything. leave Bane alone, he is the best Sith ever. The story is my fave of all of Star Wars. damn... Des is a good name. Darth Bane, or Bane from DnD or Bane from The Dark Knight. See the pattern, he is awesome. In every way. Not all heroes have to use green lightsabers and drink blue, green milk. He saw the wrongness in both sides, the Jedi, the Sith, and went up against them. We will never see his likes again. and that is why star wars beats star trek every day of the week. 'During the Battle of Phaseera, Dessel mutinies against the commanding officer Ulabore to prevent the unit from deploying on a suicide mission. Dessel then leads the unit to victory over the Republic forces opposing them. Despite this success, he is arrested upon his return.'
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jun 29, 2018 6:14:19 GMT
Regarding the complaint about the bomber in space, I always just figured that the ship itself propelled them downward so that it appeared as though gravity were pulling them toward the ship below. Turns out the Wookieepedia says I wasn’t that far off. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17Doesn't matter. If the starships are just floating in space suspended by the thrust of their drives, to compensate for gravity, then the bombs will drop straight down. I should add that if the starships can do this, then they can also lower themselves down on a planet and land. Yet we have never seen this. Always shuttles are used. But if they're using 'antigrav', same thing, the bombs will fall straight down if the bomber isn't moving around the planet. If the starships are in orbit, otoh, which they should be to save fuel, then "propelling them downward" won't work. Instead the bombs will enter a more elliptical orbit, in total representing a higher energy state than the original orbit (because the "downward" force will momentarily accelerate them, adding to their velocity). I could be okay with the bombers though. My position is more like, this isn't really meant to be 'realistic' space mechanics. What is important though is that the fictive rules are constant and consistent, not what they are. Which brings us to: For instance, fuel has never been an issue before. Luke flew all over the galaxy in his little X-wing fighter. Never concerned himself about fuel. Millenium Falcon the same. Also, there has never been any evidence of fuel tanks in the spaceships' designs. Fuel was never an issue. So why is it now? - Failure! For instance, hyperspace never previously interacted with space. (This is credible physics btw, assuming FTL speeds, there can be no communication with normal space). And now, suddenly, because those selfish jerks, Kennedy & Johnson wants a hero's death for incompetent vice admiral gender studies, it's possible to ram ships in normal space. So why haven't hyperspace missiles been developed for like a million years ago? This is so stupid it defies belief and ruins immersion. So why has no one ever been worried about hitting stars, planets, asteroids while flying in hyperspace? Isn't there even a scene in an old movie where they come out of hyperspace inside an asteroid field? Not to mention particles, which are everywhere? - Failure! It's just so damn stupid. And it breaks the established lore, just like so many other things about the characters and the force. My complaint is what Rian Johnson even has admitted to, in a recent twitter exchange: George Lucas had a personal vision of what he wanted SW to be. That vision was a success, was something people responded to, and ultimately created a multibillion dollar movie franchise. That personal vision of George Lucas' is what Disney purchased. Being the custodian of that vision is what Disney hired Kathleen Kennedy and ultimately Rian Johnson for. Instead of being the custodian of that vision however, Rian Johnson decide to do his "personal vision" instead, not George Lucas'. He's welcome to do that anytime of course, but on his own time and launching his own franchise - we'll see how successful that'll be -, not with Disney's money and not with the Star Wars label. I can see those bombs in OT are pure energy bombs or hybrid with forced shooting from the bomber itself. In Episode II there was space homing missiles too. yeah didn't find the proper screenshot
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Post by Sifr on Jun 29, 2018 7:35:14 GMT
I'll be honest, the first time I saw The Last Jedi, the characters sold the whole bombing run so well, it really didn't dawn on me that the bombs dropping was ridiculous. I just sort of assumed, "Well, if the in-universe character think this is how its supposed to work, then I guess it is." The only thing that stuck me as dumb was the bombers all together getting wiped by one tie fighter ramming them. Of course afterwards, yeah, canons firing in a parabola? Lol! Aren't we taking for granted that artificial gravity and anti-gravity are established things in the Star Wars universe, though?
By installing some anti-gravity emitters on the ceiling of the bomb-bay, opening the doors and flipping a switch, the bombs could then be "dropped" (or more accurately "repulsed") out of the craft to simulate an atmospheric bombing run.
No idea if that's actually the explanation for what was going on in that (ridiculous, but cool) scene, but it's at least lore-friendly and consistent with the established technology. If so, it's definitely an awesome-but-impractical application of this technology, but so is making protocols droids that have a maximum speed of "quick shuffle".
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jun 29, 2018 7:48:37 GMT
A comment about the FTL kamikaze thing: Not only is this thing coming out of nowhere, it also opens a giant plot hole in practically every story in the SW universe. Hell, if using an object traveling at FTL as a weapon was possible, the entire history of SW would be completely different. Death-star? No problem. Just use a single FTL kamikaze / missile / torpedo capable of FTL. A fleet of star destroyers with shields that you just can't break and entirely too much firepower? FTL etc. Super Star Destroyers? FTL etc. I'm not even sure why you would even need all the planet-killing weapons of that universe, after all, supposedly an object travelling at the speed of light (and certainly above) has infinite mass. Infinite mass hitting ANYTHING, simply means that whatever it hits is practically deleted from existence. It won't simply break a SSD in two, it will probably ANNIHILATE it and probably everything else in a fairly significant radius. (same probably goes if it hits something like a planet) It simply makes no sense, not from any vaguely realistic perspective, and not from in-universe perspective. It practically reeks of the disregard (or disdain) Johnson has for the SW canon. Exactly! Thank you for spelling it out in great detail.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jun 29, 2018 8:00:38 GMT
No. What we can agree upon is that it's possible to push the bombs away on a trajectory that will hit those ships eventually. But pushing them just downward won't help. A ship in an orbit "below", will be travelling faster, both in terms of velocity and angular velocity. It will not "hold station" without using thrust. A bomb pushed downward will not gain angular velocity at that point. 90 degrees into the future, around the planet, it will, but by that time it will be well below. But that wasn't the the real issue. I think of that as rather as: Why are there free-fall bombers at all? They reasonably have a different purpose than throwing bombs into trajectories intercepting other ships? But as I said, I could be okay with the bombers. Ramming things while in hyperspace though, I can't buy. Biggest problem is it's so obvious, yet has never been done before. What did the Empire need all their deathstars for? It's much simpler, just ram a planet with something in hyperspeed... Nah, it's such a breaker. I'm also not sure your defense of it is valid: What is EU? And TFA is part of the problem. I don't know what you're getting at with the trajectories of those bombs, orbits and whatever. You're assuming lots of things you don't actually know. What you see in the movie is this: big evil badass ship right below bomber, with approximately the same velocity vector. If bombs pushed down, bombs hit big evil badass ship. It's not harder than that. We stand on the same ground as to the silliness of that (and many other things). EU is short for Expanded Universe, pretty much anything Star Wars-y that came out before this Disney shit, and the hyperspace thing is explained consistently through lots of EU medias. However, as I said, weapons based on that aren't nearly as powerful as TLJ makes them out to be. Look: I've said repeatedly that I don't have any problem with the bombers. Here's why, if the bombers are floating in a stationary position (for any Space-Opera fictive reason) when they bomb, it will work just fine. There is no problem. So why do people object? One possible reason could be that they perceive that things would work as if the bombers are in an orbit around a planet or what. I explain how things would work in an orbit. And that's that. As for FTL ramming, Laughing Man has spent more words than I to express why that is such a stupid idea to introduce. And EU is obviously written by people who do a poor job of thinking things through then.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 8:54:29 GMT
Regarding the complaint about the bomber in space, I always just figured that the ship itself propelled them downward so that it appeared as though gravity were pulling them toward the ship below. Turns out the Wookieepedia says I wasn’t that far off. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17Doesn't matter. If the starships are just floating in space suspended by the thrust of their drives, to compensate for gravity, then the bombs will drop straight down. I should add that if the starships can do this, then they can also lower themselves down on a planet and land. Yet we have never seen this. Always shuttles are used. But if they're using 'antigrav', same thing, the bombs will fall straight down if the bomber isn't moving around the planet. If the starships are in orbit, otoh, which they should be to save fuel, then "propelling them downward" won't work. Instead the bombs will enter a more elliptical orbit, in total representing a higher energy state than the original orbit (because the "downward" force will momentarily accelerate them, adding to their velocity). I could be okay with the bombers though. My position is more like, this isn't really meant to be 'realistic' space mechanics. What is important though is that the fictive rules are constant and consistent, not what they are. Which brings us to: For instance, fuel has never been an issue before. Luke flew all over the galaxy in his little X-wing fighter. Never concerned himself about fuel. Millenium Falcon the same. Also, there has never been any evidence of fuel tanks in the spaceships' designs. Fuel was never an issue. So why is it now? - Failure! For instance, hyperspace never previously interacted with space. (This is credible physics btw, assuming FTL speeds, there can be no communication with normal space). And now, suddenly, because those selfish jerks, Kennedy & Johnson wants a hero's death for incompetent vice admiral gender studies, it's possible to ram ships in normal space. So why haven't hyperspace missiles been developed for like a million years ago? This is so stupid it defies belief and ruins immersion. So why has no one ever been worried about hitting stars, planets, asteroids while flying in hyperspace? Isn't there even a scene in an old movie where they come out of hyperspace inside an asteroid field? Not to mention particles, which are everywhere? - Failure! It's just so damn stupid. And it breaks the established lore, just like so many other things about the characters and the force. My complaint is what Rian Johnson even has admitted to, in a recent twitter exchange: George Lucas had a personal vision of what he wanted SW to be. That vision was a success, was something people responded to, and ultimately created a multibillion dollar movie franchise. That personal vision of George Lucas' is what Disney purchased. Being the custodian of that vision is what Disney hired Kathleen Kennedy and ultimately Rian Johnson for. Instead of being the custodian of that vision however, Rian Johnson decide to do his "personal vision" instead, not George Lucas'. He's welcome to do that anytime of course, but on his own time and launching his own franchise - we'll see how successful that'll be -, not with Disney's money and not with the Star Wars label. The funny part is that if you cast bombs "down" in an orbit thus gaining more velocity they'll enter a higher orbit and will come back at you.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 11:42:57 GMT
The funny part is that if you cast bombs "down" in an orbit thus gaining more velocity they'll enter a higher orbit and will come back at you. Heh... You are talking about the slingshot thing, right? Yeah, it could happen, but you need a very specific trajectory for that, it probably won't happen by mistake... Not really. Accelerating is how you increase your orbit - the "height" you're "flying" at. Is like the filled bucket. Rotate it slow and the water comes out. Rotate fast and it stays in when you windmill it around. If that makes sense. Think is: you increse the orbit on the opposite side of your current position on the "circle". So any changes only go gradually in effect slowly. Most of the mechanics I learned with KSP, a neat little indie game where you create rockets and shoot them to simple orbits.
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Post by Deerber on Jun 29, 2018 11:52:15 GMT
Meh, I'm out of this, it's just not worth it. Peace.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 11:52:39 GMT
Not really. Accelerating is how you increase your orbit - the "height" you're "flying" at. Is like the filled bucket. Rotate it slow and the water comes out. Rotate fast and it stays in when you windmill it around. If that makes sense. Think is: you increse the orbit on the opposite side of your current position on the "circle". So any changes only go gradually in effect slowly. Most of the mechanics I learned with KSP, a neat little indie game where you create rockets and shoot them to simple orbits. I could be wrong I suppose. My understanding was that in order for a slingshot to work (effectively) you need to have both minimum speed and a specific trajectory. But I'm hardly an expert. "Not really" meant I wasn't talking about slingshot. That is gravity assisted stuff where you enter an orbit not to stick around in it but get deflected to another trajectory in a not so simple anymore system of multiple bodies moving around.
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Post by Deerber on Jun 29, 2018 11:55:12 GMT
And does that clarification change anything about what I said before or after? I'll be honest, the first time I saw The Last Jedi, the characters sold the whole bombing run so well, it really didn't dawn on me that the bombs dropping was ridiculous. I just sort of assumed, "Well, if the in-universe character think this is how its supposed to work, then I guess it is." The only thing that stuck me as dumb was the bombers all together getting wiped by one tie fighter ramming them. Of course afterwards, yeah, canons firing in a parabola? Lol! Might have been that I was already put in a "wtf is this" mental state by the idiotic opening scene with the joke on that general's mom. Man, it indeed shows how little emotion these new movies were able to produce in me that I don't even remember that guy's name. He's supposed to be the First Order's commander, or something, but I have no idea what his name is
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Post by Deerber on Jun 29, 2018 12:02:07 GMT
I could be wrong I suppose. My understanding was that in order for a slingshot to work (effectively) you need to have both minimum speed and a specific trajectory. But I'm hardly an expert. "Not really" meant I wasn't talking about slingshot. That is gravity assisted stuff where you enter an orbit not to stick around in it but get deflected to another trajectory in a not so simple anymore system of multiple bodies moving around. Multiple = 2 now?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 29, 2018 12:20:57 GMT
Why do people keep trying to apply physics to hyperspace and such? Let me break it to you: hyperspace is not covered by physics in any sort of meaningful way (yet, maybe). That means that we have absolutely zero fucking clues as to how an object traveling in hyperspace behaves. So as that FTL speed is achieved through means completely extraneous to our theories, you could not possibly apply them to this situation. Therefore you have no fucking clue as to whether the object in hyperspace would have infinite mass. Geee, you guys make it seem like I want to defend TLJ. It's the worst thing to happen to humanity since the flat earthers, but this whole hyperspace thing is very clearly and coherently explained in the EU, as I said before.Which Mickey then ignores and breaks. Though it should be mentioned that also in the EU, it's explained why every hyperdrive is hardwired with a failsafe to not activate when in a large enough mass shadow, namely, that FTL collisions would be very very bad for the same reasons Laughing Man pointed out. So yeah, everyone assumes hyperspace-normal space physics. Difference is, people with half a brain or more (i.e. EU writers and their fans) then account for that in-universe.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 13:39:01 GMT
"Not really" meant I wasn't talking about slingshot. That is gravity assisted stuff where you enter an orbit not to stick around in it but get deflected to another trajectory in a not so simple anymore system of multiple bodies moving around. Multiple = 2 now? 2-body problem is you in your orbiter around a planet or moon or whatever. Those are rather simple. Leave that planets orbit and enter the star system it becomes much more complicated and that math goes beyond my cat-comprehension. They say there is no solution for 3+ body problems.
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Post by Deerber on Jun 29, 2018 13:56:51 GMT
2-body problem is you in your orbiter around a planet or moon or whatever. Those are rather simple. Leave that planets orbit and enter the star system it becomes much more complicated and that math goes beyond my cat-comprehension. They say there is no solution for 3+ body problems. I know what a 3 bodies problem is. I just don't understand why we're taking into account stars too now, since we were just talking about a spaceship in orbit around a planet?
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Post by Deerber on Jun 29, 2018 14:01:26 GMT
I actually can't wait for Episode IX. To see just how much of a gigantic proportion failure it will be. I am expecting it to fail so, so horribly in an economical sense, that it won't really surprise me if Disney were to fire every single one working on th enew trilogy, apologise to the fans for making some horrible mistakes, and say that those movies never actually happened, they were all a bad dream, please let's start again from scratch together kthxbye. That's how bad I'm expecting it to be
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 29, 2018 14:09:50 GMT
I actually can't wait for Episode IX. To see just how much of a gigantic proportion failure it will be. I am expecting it to fail so, so horribly in an economical sense, that it won't really surprise me if Disney were to fire every single one working on th enew trilogy, apologise to the fans for making some horrible mistakes, and say that those movies never actually happened, they were all a bad dream, please let's start again from scratch together kthxbye. That's how bad I'm expecting it to be
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 14:44:06 GMT
2-body problem is you in your orbiter around a planet or moon or whatever. Those are rather simple. Leave that planets orbit and enter the star system it becomes much more complicated and that math goes beyond my cat-comprehension. They say there is no solution for 3+ body problems. I know what a 3 bodies problem is. I just don't understand why we're taking into account stars too now, since we were just talking about a spaceship in orbit around a planet? Laughing Man asked if I meant slingshots. That's how it kinda went hyperbolic.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 29, 2018 15:36:42 GMT
A comment about the FTL kamikaze thing: Not only is this thing coming out of nowhere, it also opens a giant plot hole in practically every story in the SW universe. Hell, if using an object traveling at FTL as a weapon was possible, the entire history of SW would be completely different. Death-star? No problem. Just use a single FTL kamikaze / missile / torpedo capable of FTL. A fleet of star destroyers with shields that you just can't break and entirely too much firepower? FTL etc. Super Star Destroyers? FTL etc. I'm not even sure why you would even need all the planet-killing weapons of that universe, after all, supposedly an object travelling at the speed of light (and certainly above) has infinite mass. Infinite mass hitting ANYTHING, simply means that whatever it hits is practically deleted from existence. It won't simply break a SSD in two, it will probably ANNIHILATE it and probably everything else in a fairly significant radius. (same probably goes if it hits something like a planet) It simply makes no sense, not from any vaguely realistic perspective, and not from in-universe perspective. It practically reeks of the disregard (or disdain) Johnson has for the SW canon. Exactly! Thank you for spelling it out in great detail. Now toss in JJ making the Falcon bypass Starkiller's shields using the hyper drive despite the base literally being a star that produces a gravity well (Interdictor ships) and should have prevented hyperspace travel.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 29, 2018 17:38:54 GMT
And does that clarification change anything about what I said before or after? I'll be honest, the first time I saw The Last Jedi, the characters sold the whole bombing run so well, it really didn't dawn on me that the bombs dropping was ridiculous. I just sort of assumed, "Well, if the in-universe character think this is how its supposed to work, then I guess it is." The only thing that stuck me as dumb was the bombers all together getting wiped by one tie fighter ramming them. Of course afterwards, yeah, canons firing in a parabola? Lol! Even by Star Wars standards, the bombing run in The Last Jedi was tactically terrible.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 29, 2018 21:04:48 GMT
Geee, you guys make it seem like I want to defend TLJ. It's the worst thing to happen to humanity since the flat earthers, but this whole hyperspace thing is very clearly and coherently explained in the EU, as I said before.
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August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2018 21:09:42 GMT
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Sept 30, 2024 18:14:46 GMT
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Andrew Waples
4,090
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 29, 2018 21:35:30 GMT
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Deerber
N3
Claymore & Drell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: Deerber
Prime Posts: 16,870
Prime Likes: 7098
Posts: 594 Likes: 2,352
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2,352
Deerber
Claymore & Drell
594
August 2016
deerber
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Deerber
16,870
7098
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Post by Deerber on Jun 30, 2018 0:04:53 GMT
I know what a 3 bodies problem is. I just don't understand why we're taking into account stars too now, since we were just talking about a spaceship in orbit around a planet? Laughing Man asked if I meant slingshots. That's how it kinda went hyperbolic. ... Pun intended?
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