Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 13:56:08 GMT
And? There are 3 years between the ANH and ESB, 2 years between ESB and RotJ, and 30+ years between RotJ and TFA. Luke changed. Complaining about it and demanding character consistency otherwise "bad writing" is dumb. Character inconsistency for the sake of forced drama, not consistency, is bad writing. Leia had ample time and good reason to change too, but do we see her shooting up death sticks in some seedy bar instead of fighting against her son? It's a movie - literally everything is for the sake of drama. Leia? When the did Leia even have a personality more one dimensional than "I care" but "do what I say" in the original trilogy? She doesn't even mention Alderaan after it is destroyed. She was one of the good guys in authority - a decent, likeable hero - the end. Han Solo is not much different, all of his development was in the ANH (rogue with a heart of gold), and then he pretty much existed as another action hero. We don't know what any of these people are like with their own children or the responsibility of a municipality, let alone something as vast as a galactic republic, in their hands. The story could literally have done anything with these characters and it wouldn't have been inconsistent, because there is almost nothing to be consistent with. I'm sure someone brought this up, but Luke goes through the biggest change in the original trilogy from eager kid to confident hero between ESB and RotJ after he LOST a battle with Vader - did anyone rail against that and demand to see that development or else "inconsistent!", or did they maybe just blindly accept it because it was a likeable change in Luke? Oh Luke grew from failure? So deep. The only difference in TLJ is that the change is not so likeable. Turns out after ~20 years Luke made a mistake with something far more precious than his hand, got tired of being the hero, and thought the galaxy might be better off without hero worshipping him or the Jedi.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 14:03:45 GMT
What are the obviöus reasöns? It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. Nö. That önly happens after he decides tö kill his sleeping nephew. The pröblem is there cöuld be söme reasön that I might buy Luke Skywalker deciding that wöuld be the best pössible case. But there is nöne. The last time we see Luke he is the trying tö save his father fröm the dark side. Tö change a character 100% and turn his whöle möral beliefs backwörds there needs tö be söme kind öf traumatic life altering event happen tö him. They didn't shöw or even talk aböut it. It is literally öne mövie he is öne way and the next he is cömpletely different.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 5, 2018 14:04:48 GMT
Truth & logic do not exist or if they do they are so relative they're just opinions. #postmodernism #hashtag Postmodernism is a concept. Logic is not, Logic is not relative. That's the point of logic. God damn. Pretty sure you know this. Irony post? According to postmodernists truth and logic are relative. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 14:07:28 GMT
What are the obviöus reasöns? It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. Man, remember the time Yoda and/or Obi-wan tried to murder Anakin because they glimpsed the future where he becomes Darth Vader and also murders little kids? Or when they told Luke to piss off because everything they feared came true and they failed everything forever? No? Oh.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 14:12:15 GMT
It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. Man, remember the time Yoda and/or Obi-wan tried to murder Anakin because they glimpsed the future where he becomes Darth Vader and also murders little kids? Or when they told Luke to piss off because everything they feared came true and they failed everything forever? No? Oh. No, Obi Wan and Yoda just went off into hiding for 20 years while the galactic republic collapsed and was ruled by the Empire. Wasn't Yoda the one who told Luke to GTFO?
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 5, 2018 14:14:41 GMT
What are the obviöus reasöns? It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. That could cause Luke to give up on the Jedi. I wouldn't find such an development too outlandish. But he would never give up on his friends and family. His determination to change Vader despite Vader certanty of his goals showed as much. Luke not giving a shit about Han's death and continuing to mope around green milk island is absolutely OOC in every possible way.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:21:45 GMT
It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. Man, remember the time Yoda and/or Obi-wan tried to murder Anakin because they glimpsed the future where he becomes Darth Vader and also murders little kids? Or when they told Luke to piss off because everything they feared came true and they failed everything forever? No? Oh. Um Yoda didn’t get a clear vision an Obi-Wan had no idea so no comparison.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:23:03 GMT
It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. That could cause Luke to give up on the Jedi. I wouldn't find such an development too outlandish. But he would never give up on his friends and family. His determination to change Vader despite Vader certanty of his goals showed as much. Luke not giving a shit about Han's death and continuing to mope around green milk island is absolutely OOC in every possible way. He couldn’t face them after failing Ben. Not that big of a leap and not ooc.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 14:25:39 GMT
Man, remember the time Yoda and/or Obi-wan tried to murder Anakin because they glimpsed the future where he becomes Darth Vader and also murders little kids? Or when they told Luke to piss off because everything they feared came true and they failed everything forever? No? Oh. No, Obi Wan and Yoda just went off into hiding for 20 years while the galactic republic collapsed and was ruled by the Empire. Wasn't Yoda the one who told Luke to GTFO? wat Obi-wan kept watch over Luke, he didn't fuck off to a rando rock in the middle of the ocean. Yoda tried to kill the Emperor but failed. He had to hide on Dagobah to mask his Force presence or he would've been found and killed (or be forced to uselessly kill wave after wave of mooks sent after him). Again, didn't just fuck off for no reason. And what movie were you watching where Yoda told Luke to GTFO? Oh the same Disney crap. Yeah, checkmate there I guess
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 5, 2018 14:26:46 GMT
That could cause Luke to give up on the Jedi. I wouldn't find such an development too outlandish. But he would never give up on his friends and family. His determination to change Vader despite Vader certanty of his goals showed as much. Luke not giving a shit about Han's death and continuing to mope around green milk island is absolutely OOC in every possible way. He couldn’t face them after failing Ben. Not that big of a leap and not ooc. Being ashamed of his failures =/= leaving his friends to die.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 14:27:24 GMT
Um Yoda didn’t get a clear vision an Obi-Wan had no idea so no comparison. Because that's what keeps compassionate and disciplined space monks in line (specifically, not killing innocent children/teenagers)- ignorance. You sure do know your Star Wars. gg
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Post by Iakus on Jul 5, 2018 14:27:41 GMT
What are the obviöus reasöns? It’s almost pointless explaining to you but I’ll give it a go. He watched everything thing he worked for go down in flames. Everything he feared came true. That would change anyone. Yeah like that time he totally gave up in ESB. Oh wait:
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 5, 2018 14:29:23 GMT
He couldn’t face them after failing Ben. Not that big of a leap and not ooc. Ok, so he also became a coward that ran away from his best friend and his sister. His sister, the second most powerful force sensitive in the galaxy. Yes, this is no leap. It is a chasm jump. A ridiculously, poorly thought out, shoehorned jump necessary to catapult the propaganda that Disney Wars needs to be incloosive and forward. :FML:
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:29:40 GMT
Um Yoda didn’t get a clear vision an Obi-Wan had no idea so no comparison. Because that's what keeps compassionate and disciplined space monks in line (specifically, not killing innocent children/teenagers)- ignorance. You sure do know your Star Wars. gg Better than you it seems.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:30:40 GMT
He couldn’t face them after failing Ben. Not that big of a leap and not ooc. Ok, so he also became a coward that ran away from his best friend and his sister. His sister, the second most powerful force sensitive in the galaxy. Yes, this is no leap. It is a chasm jump. A ridiculously, poorly thought out, shoehorned jump necessary to catapult the propaganda that Disney Wars needs to be incloosive and forward. :FML: I don’t agree and never will do stop trying to make me agree.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 14:31:25 GMT
Because that's what keeps compassionate and disciplined space monks in line (specifically, not killing innocent children/teenagers)- ignorance. You sure do know your Star Wars. gg Better than you it seems.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:32:52 GMT
Better than you it seems. Point me to one thing I’ve said that is factually wrong and not just subjective opinion.
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 5, 2018 14:33:08 GMT
Ok, so he also became a coward that ran away from his best friend and his sister. His sister, the second most powerful force sensitive in the galaxy. Yes, this is no leap. It is a chasm jump. A ridiculously, poorly thought out, shoehorned jump necessary to catapult the propaganda that Disney Wars needs to be incloosive and forward. :FML: I don’t agree and never will do stop trying to make me agree. One cannot make a troll agree into something.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:35:10 GMT
I don’t agree and never will do stop trying to make me agree. One cannot make a troll agree into something. I don’t agree with you anti Disney Crowd so I’m a troll? Nice logic.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 5, 2018 14:35:40 GMT
Ok, so he also became a coward that ran away from his best friend and his sister. His sister, the second most powerful force sensitive in the galaxy. Yes, this is no leap. It is a chasm jump. A ridiculously, poorly thought out, shoehorned jump necessary to catapult the propaganda that Disney Wars needs to be incloosive and forward. :FML: I don’t agree and never will do stop trying to make me agree. I'm not trying to make you do anything. I will never stop replying to nonsense. I will remain impersonal, and I will remain vigilant. What we have, to me, is nothing that is subjective. There are objectively bad things about the Disney movies in comparison to movies in general and then directly compared to the OT. You can argue until you're blue in the face, I will continue on. It's quite funny, your missing sense of irony.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 14:37:02 GMT
Yöu dön't use anything öther than "it is my opiniön thus it can nöt be wröng" as yöur basis för the argument.
The peöple whö have a pröblem with it back up their arguments with actual data pulled fröm the öther mövies.
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 5, 2018 14:37:34 GMT
One cannot make a troll agree into something. I don’t agree with you anti Disney Crowd so I’m a troll? Nice logic. If you don't agree even when undeniable evidence is shown of poor, inconsistent writing, then I can only assume you're trolling. Or you're just a disney fanboy.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 14:38:04 GMT
Yöu dön't use anything öther than "it is my opiniön thus it can nöt be wröng" as your basis for the argument. The peöple whö have a pröblem with it back up their arguments with actual data pulled fröm the öther mövies. So have I. If you want me to I can go into a long debate but I can’t right now I’m at work.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 5, 2018 14:54:51 GMT
Is Luke at any point in TLJ shown to get "a clear vision" of Kylo's future? Or any idea at all except "a feeling" of the dark side from his nephew before trying to kill him in his sleep?
Is there any logic in his decision?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 14:59:46 GMT
No, Obi Wan and Yoda just went off into hiding for 20 years while the galactic republic collapsed and was ruled by the Empire. Wasn't Yoda the one who told Luke to GTFO? wat Obi-wan kept watch over Luke, he didn't fuck off to a rando rock in the middle of the ocean. Yoda tried to kill the Emperor but failed. He had to hide on Dagobah to mask his Force presence or he would've been found and killed (or be forced to uselessly kill wave after wave of mooks sent after him). Again, didn't just fuck off for no reason. And what movie were you watching where Yoda told Luke to GTFO? Oh the same Disney crap. Yeah, checkmate there I guess Oh sure, these are Obi-Wan's and Yoda's best and only options, while millions of people were killed in the Empire's name - to oversee the new "savior". Hey, it's a good story, and I like it just fine, but don't tell me their talents couldn't have been better served aiding the rebellion because, OMG, galaxy wide Force detection would reveal them - Obi-Wan had to land on the Death Star for Vader to even feel him. Luke has a reason, he states pretty plainly - maybe you should re-watch the movie. In ESB Yoda: "He is too old, too old to begin the training...." Yoda says he won't train Luke and had to be convinced by Obi-Wan to do it. In fact, as Luke leaves to save his friends Yoda looks depressed that he may have been right to not want to train him. P.S. I don't need an ethical justification for the actions of Obi-Wan and Yoda between RotS and ANH. They're warrior monks deeply steeped in hokus pokus philosophy, and deciding to lay low and let a bunch of crap happen until the time is right is a standard tactic, before they pounce:
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