Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 5, 2018 15:00:18 GMT
Is Luke at any point in TLJ shown to get "a clear vision" of Kylo's future? Or any idea at all except "a feeling" of the dark side from his nephew before trying to kill him in his sleep? Is there any logic in his decision? Luke knows firsthand how unreliable visions can be
"Always in motion is the future"
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 5, 2018 15:09:30 GMT
Hey, remember that part when Luke was so ashamed of what he did that he then left pieces of a map leading to his location all over the galaxy including the memory of deactivated R2D2 which for some reason activates again in the presence of Rey and reveals that last piece she needs to find Luke so then he can tell her that he didn't want to be found and went there to die?
Motherfucker has changed indeed.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 15:11:29 GMT
wat Obi-wan kept watch over Luke, he didn't fuck off to a rando rock in the middle of the ocean. Yoda tried to kill the Emperor but failed. He had to hide on Dagobah to mask his Force presence or he would've been found and killed (or be forced to uselessly kill wave after wave of mooks sent after him). Again, didn't just fuck off for no reason. And what movie were you watching where Yoda told Luke to GTFO? Oh the same Disney crap. Yeah, checkmate there I guess Oh sure, these are Obi-Wan's and Yoda's best and only options, while millions of people were killed in the Empire's name - to oversee the new "savior". Hey, it's a good story, and I like it just fine, but don't tell me their talents couldn't have been better served aiding the rebellion because, OMG, galaxy wide Force detection would reveal them - Obi-Wan had to land on the Death Star for Vader to even feel him. Luke has a reason, he states pretty plainly - maybe you should re-watch the movie. ESB, "He is too old, too old to begin the training...." Yoda says he won't train Luke and had to be convinced by Obi-Wan to do it. In fact, as Luke leaves to save his friends Yoda looks depressed that he may have been right to not want to train him. Don't know why you put savior in quotes, because that's exactly what Luke was. The original movie's freakin called A New Hope! And yes. That was the best plan. They're Jedi, not gods. They can't save everyone. The best option is the one that permanently ends the threat, not only saves a handful of randos here and there. Yoda's a much more high-value target than Obi-wan. Palpatine doesn't care about Obi-wan. And Obi-wan has the best hiding place against Vader, because we all know Vader hates sand So what you're saying is it's the ghosts' fault for not snapping Luke out of his whiny ragequit? That's... not much better.
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N6
Retired Birthday Wizard
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Post by docsteely on Jul 5, 2018 15:25:49 GMT
Is Luke at any point in TLJ shown to get "a clear vision" of Kylo's future? Or any idea at all except "a feeling" of the dark side from his nephew before trying to kill him in his sleep? Is there any logic in his decision? Luke knows firsthand how unreliable visions can be
"Always in motion is the future"
Absolutely true. He'd already acted on such a vision once at the end of ESB and it cost him a hand, plus he still could not "help his friends with the force". Also if he "felt" the dark side in his nephew why did he never try to reach out to him as he did with his father before?
Is trying to murder him supposed to be his logical first action?
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Obadiah
N5
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 15:44:30 GMT
Oh sure, these are Obi-Wan's and Yoda's best and only options, while millions of people were killed in the Empire's name - to oversee the new "savior". Hey, it's a good story, and I like it just fine, but don't tell me their talents couldn't have been better served aiding the rebellion because, OMG, galaxy wide Force detection would reveal them - Obi-Wan had to land on the Death Star for Vader to even feel him. Luke has a reason, he states pretty plainly - maybe you should re-watch the movie. ESB, "He is too old, too old to begin the training...." Yoda says he won't train Luke and had to be convinced by Obi-Wan to do it. In fact, as Luke leaves to save his friends Yoda looks depressed that he may have been right to not want to train him. Don't know why you put savior in quotes, because that's exactly what Luke was. The original movie's freakin called A New Hope! And yes. That was the best plan. They're Jedi, not gods. They can't save everyone. The best option is the one that permanently ends the threat, not only saves a handful of randos here and there. Yoda's a much more high-value target than Obi-wan. Palpatine doesn't care about Obi-wan. And Obi-wan has the best hiding place against Vader, because we all know Vader hates sand So what you're saying is it's the ghosts' fault for not snapping Luke out of his whiny ragequit? That's... not much better. >> Don't know why you put savior in quotes, because that's exactly what Luke was. The original movie's freakin called A New Hope! It's in quotes because a single savior against a galactic empire is stupid, but its Star Wars, and its a fun story. >> The best option is the one that permanently ends the threat, not only saves a handful of randos here and there. So, the best option is one sorta trained Jedi, not 2 masters? M'kay. >> So what you're saying is it's the ghosts' fault for not snapping Luke out of his whiny ragequit? That's... not much better. What I'm saying is that Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke, after their failures, all thought the galaxy was better served with them hiding out.
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N5
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 15:46:31 GMT
Luke knows firsthand how unreliable visions can be
"Always in motion is the future"
Absolutely true. He'd already acted on such a vision once at the end of ESB and it cost him a hand, plus he still could not "help his friends with the force". Also if he "felt" the dark side in his nephew why did he never try to reach out to him as he did with his father before?
Is trying to murder him supposed to be his logical first action? One assumes the "reach out" happened in the years leading up to the Academy incident.
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Retired Birthday Wizard
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Post by docsteely on Jul 5, 2018 15:52:53 GMT
Absolutely true. He'd already acted on such a vision once at the end of ESB and it cost him a hand, plus he still could not "help his friends with the force". Also if he "felt" the dark side in his nephew why did he never try to reach out to him as he did with his father before?
Is trying to murder him supposed to be his logical first action? One assumes the "reach out" happened in the years leading up to the Academy incident. Since when assuming is part of a good story telling?
Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 15:54:08 GMT
>> Don't know why you put savior in quotes, because that's exactly what Luke was. The original movie's freakin called A New Hope! It's in quotes because a single savior against a galactic empire is stupid, but its Star Wars, and its a fun story. >> The best option is the one that permanently ends the threat, not only saves a handful of randos here and there. So, the best option is one sorta trained Jedi, not 2 masters? M'kay. >> So what you're saying is it's the ghosts' fault for not snapping Luke out of his whiny ragequit? That's... not much better. What I'm saying is that Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke, after their failures, all thought the galaxy was better served with them hiding out. One savior against the Sith and something something prophecy. The Empire is incidental. It doesn't fall overnight like Return of the Jedi would have you believe, but at that point, it's a concern mundanes can deal with. Obviously, given it's not skill with the Force that wins the day. Except two of those hid with purpose, while the third simply stomped off and ragequit. It's hilarious you think they're similar.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 5, 2018 16:09:18 GMT
One assumes the "reach out" happened in the years leading up to the Academy incident. Since when assuming is part of a good story telling?
Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? It's not. It's absolute cr*p storytelling.
And Vader helped blow up a f*cking PLANET!!!
"I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 5, 2018 16:19:36 GMT
Yet the core traits of Han Solo's and Leia's characters remained the same To the point where it's like they have no character development whatsoever. Disney! We totally know characters! What are the obviöus reasöns? They're so obvious, they're hard to see. Obviously. Damn shame Disney wasted time on the rebels series when a post RoTJ pre TFA series could have given us so much insight into how the characters developed. Character inconsistency for the sake of forced drama, not consistency, is bad writing. Leia had ample time and good reason to change too, but do we see her shooting up death sticks in some seedy bar instead of fighting against her son? It's a movie - literally everything is for the sake of drama. Leia? When the did Leia even have a personality more one dimensional than "I care" but "do what I say" in the original trilogy? She doesn't even mention Alderaan after it is destroyed. She was one of the good guys in authority - a decent, likeable hero - the end. Han Solo is not much different, all of his development was in the ANH (rogue with a heart of gold), and then he pretty much existed as another action hero. We don't know what any of these people are like with their own children or the responsibility of a municipality, let alone something as vast as a galactic republic, in their hands. The story could literally have done anything with these characters and it wouldn't have been inconsistent, because there is almost nothing to be consistent with. I'm sure someone brought this up, but Luke goes through the biggest change in the original trilogy from eager kid to confident hero between ESB and RotJ after he LOST a battle with Vader - did anyone rail against that and demand to see that development or else "inconsistent!", or did they maybe just blindly accept it because it was a likeable change in Luke? Oh Luke grew from failure? So deep. The only difference in TLJ is that the change is not so likeable. Turns out after ~20 years Luke made a mistake with something far more precious than his hand, got tired of being the hero, and thought the galaxy might be better off without hero worshipping him or the Jedi. No one mentions Alderaan's destruction after ANH beyond it being a boon to rebel recruitment while we didn't get to see her grieve properly because Vader had her tortured and the battle of Yavin took place right after, then there's TESB taking place 3 years after ANH. All of that in combination with OT Leia being reserved in her grief like her reactions to her crew being slaughtered, Obi Wan's death, Han's carbonization, and the revelation about Vader. Hell just look at Luke who we don't see angsting over Beru or Owen after ANH. About Han his growth was subtle and gradual. All throughout the OT we see him transition from a disinterested skeptic to him taking up a cause beyond his self interests, while developing genuine empathy towards his new comrades in arms. Han and Leia experienced just as much tragedy as Luke but unlike him their characters were written to respond to Kylo's betrayal in a manner that's similar to the personas that Lucas cultivated. Luke was changed to another character for the sake of prolonging the drama. Him giving up on his nephew versus his steadfast faith in his father who was worse, him being unconcerned with his friends safety while allowing Kylo to rampage unchecked across the galaxy is inconsistent with his character, even in Disney's new comics. Luke being written as a stickler for the old jedi ways after Yoda stated that the Jedi failed because they refused to adapt like the Sith makes no sense, while Luke not wanting the Jedi to continue while coveting their texts the next moment is another glaring oversight by Rian. Like how he had Huldo sacrifice herself one moment then had Tico scolding Finn for attempting to do the same followed by Luke sacrificing himself to save the resistance afterward. Luke being the main hero or him succeeding isn't the issue, him being turned to a do nothing animal abusing faux nihlist for drama with nothing to show for it is the problem.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 16:29:45 GMT
One assumes the "reach out" happened in the years leading up to the Academy incident. Since when assuming is part of a good story telling?
Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? >>Since when assuming is part of a good story telling? I think it's literally a rule for good story telling, don't waste time explaining something so obvious that it can be assumed. Its, like, more important than the "show don't tell" rule. The whole scene is Luke going to confront Ben, so obviously he knew of the dark in Ben and tried to reach out to him earlier. >> Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? Yeah, Luke was probably much less idealistic at this stage of life anyway, and was far more aware of what was at stake. And he didn't try to murder him, the thought crossed his mind for a moment. Obi-Wan and Yoda have a conversation in the novelization of The Revenge of the Sith that each would kill the other if they thought it would end the war, and that Anakin was different because he was more loyal to people than principals. Not sure what Luke saw in Ben, but if it was a dark future, in that moment he chose Ben, and Ben chose himself.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 16:45:52 GMT
To the point where it's like they have no character development whatsoever. Disney! We totally know characters! They're so obvious, they're hard to see. Obviously. Damn shame Disney wasted time on the rebels series when a post RoTJ pre TFA series could have given us so much insight into how the characters developed. It's a movie - literally everything is for the sake of drama. Leia? When the did Leia even have a personality more one dimensional than "I care" but "do what I say" in the original trilogy? She doesn't even mention Alderaan after it is destroyed. She was one of the good guys in authority - a decent, likeable hero - the end. Han Solo is not much different, all of his development was in the ANH (rogue with a heart of gold), and then he pretty much existed as another action hero. We don't know what any of these people are like with their own children or the responsibility of a municipality, let alone something as vast as a galactic republic, in their hands. The story could literally have done anything with these characters and it wouldn't have been inconsistent, because there is almost nothing to be consistent with. I'm sure someone brought this up, but Luke goes through the biggest change in the original trilogy from eager kid to confident hero between ESB and RotJ after he LOST a battle with Vader - did anyone rail against that and demand to see that development or else "inconsistent!", or did they maybe just blindly accept it because it was a likeable change in Luke? Oh Luke grew from failure? So deep. The only difference in TLJ is that the change is not so likeable. Turns out after ~20 years Luke made a mistake with something far more precious than his hand, got tired of being the hero, and thought the galaxy might be better off without hero worshipping him or the Jedi. No one mentions Alderaan's destruction after ANH beyond it being a boon to rebel recruitment while we didn't get to see her grieve properly because Vader had her tortured and the battle of Yavin took place right after, then there's TESB taking place 3 years after ANH. All of that in combination with OT Leia being reserved in her grief like her reactions to her crew being slaughtered, Obi Wan's death, Han's carbonization, and the revelation about Vader. Hell just look at Luke who we don't see angsting over Beru or Owen after ANH. About Han his growth was subtle and gradual. All throughout the OT we see him transition from a disinterested skeptic to him taking up a cause beyond his self interests, while developing genuine empathy towards his new comrades in arms. Han and Leia experienced just as much tragedy as Luke but unlike him their characters were written to respond to Kylo's betrayal in a manner that's similar to the personas that Lucas cultivated. Luke was changed to another character for the sake of prolonging the drama. Him giving up on his nephew versus his steadfast faith in his father who was worse, him being unconcerned with his friends safety while allowing Kylo to rampage unchecked across the galaxy is inconsistent with his character, even in Disney's new comics. Luke being written as a stickler for the old jedi ways after Yoda stated that the Jedi failed because they refused to adapt like the Sith makes no sense, while Luke not wanting the Jedi to continue while coveting their texts the next moment is another glaring oversight by Rian. Like how he had Huldo sacrifice herself one moment then had Tico scolding Finn for attempting to do the same followed by Luke sacrificing himself to save the resistance afterward. Luke being the main hero or him succeeding isn't the issue, him being turned to a do nothing animal abusing faux nihlist for drama with nothing to show for it is the problem. >> Han and Leia experienced just as much tragedy as Luke but unlike him their characters were written to respond to Kylo's betrayal in a manner that's similar to the personas that Lucas cultivated. Really? Han's personality as defined by Lucas was consistent with him leaving his wife after 20 years to go do stuff with Chewbacca after Ben slaughters everyone in the Academy? M'Kay. >> Luke being written as a stickler for the old jedi ways I don't know where this came from, but Luke is definitely NOT a stickler for the Jedi ways. He just respected them and the ancient texts. >> him being turned to a do nothing animal abusing faux nihlist for drama with nothing to show for it is the problem. Luke's self imposed exile IS an action to get the Republic to stop hero-worshipping and relying on him. He says that flat out.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 16:47:46 GMT
>> Don't know why you put savior in quotes, because that's exactly what Luke was. The original movie's freakin called A New Hope! It's in quotes because a single savior against a galactic empire is stupid, but its Star Wars, and its a fun story. >> The best option is the one that permanently ends the threat, not only saves a handful of randos here and there. So, the best option is one sorta trained Jedi, not 2 masters? M'kay. >> So what you're saying is it's the ghosts' fault for not snapping Luke out of his whiny ragequit? That's... not much better. What I'm saying is that Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke, after their failures, all thought the galaxy was better served with them hiding out. One savior against the Sith and something something prophecy. The Empire is incidental. It doesn't fall overnight like Return of the Jedi would have you believe, but at that point, it's a concern mundanes can deal with. Obviously, given it's not skill with the Force that wins the day. Except two of those hid with purpose, while the third simply stomped off and ragequit. It's hilarious you think they're similar. Equally hilarious that you think they're so different. Obi-Wan and Yoda stomping off the hide on desert and swamp planets for 20 years isn't rage-quitting because... prophecy! Luke stomping off the get the galaxy to stop hero-worshipping and relying on him is rage-quitting because he had no reason (reason given in first half of this sentence)! NO REASON I TELL YOU!
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 16:48:56 GMT
Since when assuming is part of a good story telling?
Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? >>Since when assuming is part of a good story telling? I think it's literally a rule for good story telling, don't waste time explaining something so obvious that it can be assumed. Its, like, more important than the "show don't tell" rule. The whole scene is Luke going to confront Ben, so obviously he knew of the dark in Ben and tried to reach out to him earlier. >> Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? Yeah, Luke was probably much less idealistic at this stage of life anyway, and was far more aware of what was at stake. And he didn't try to murder him, the thought crossed his mind for a moment. Obi-Wan and Yoda have a conversation in the novelization of The Revenge of the Sith that each would kill the other if they thought it would end the war, and that Anakin was different because he was more loyal to people than principals. Not sure what Luke saw in Ben, but if it was a dark future, in that moment he chose Ben, and Ben chose himself. People these days have no idea what good storytelling is. They want everything laid out no assumptions or anything. I miss the good old days.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 5, 2018 16:55:32 GMT
Yes, if only people could just assume there's a reason for everything that's seemingly nonsensical in TLJ then we could pretend it was a good movie together.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 5, 2018 17:05:50 GMT
Luke stamping off the get the galaxy to stop hero-worshipping and relying on him is rage-quitting because he had no reason (reason given in first half of this sentence)! NO REASON I TELL YOU! Yeah, just like when Qui-Gon didn't want Amidala and the Naboo to rely on him because he couldn't "fight a war for them", he and Obi-wan fucked off to the planet's core to avoid- oh wait, no they didn't because Qui-Gon mastered the secret Force technique of telling people "yo, I'm not gonna carry your ass, find a way to deal with your shit." Dude this is Wiseau "logic" right here. Do you understand life?
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 5, 2018 17:16:27 GMT
Damn shame Disney wasted time on the rebels series when a post RoTJ pre TFA series could have given us so much insight into how the characters developed. No one mentions Alderaan's destruction after ANH beyond it being a boon to rebel recruitment while we didn't get to see her grieve properly because Vader had her tortured and the battle of Yavin took place right after, then there's TESB taking place 3 years after ANH. All of that in combination with OT Leia being reserved in her grief like her reactions to her crew being slaughtered, Obi Wan's death, Han's carbonization, and the revelation about Vader. Hell just look at Luke who we don't see angsting over Beru or Owen after ANH. About Han his growth was subtle and gradual. All throughout the OT we see him transition from a disinterested skeptic to him taking up a cause beyond his self interests, while developing genuine empathy towards his new comrades in arms. Han and Leia experienced just as much tragedy as Luke but unlike him their characters were written to respond to Kylo's betrayal in a manner that's similar to the personas that Lucas cultivated. Luke was changed to another character for the sake of prolonging the drama. Him giving up on his nephew versus his steadfast faith in his father who was worse, him being unconcerned with his friends safety while allowing Kylo to rampage unchecked across the galaxy is inconsistent with his character, even in Disney's new comics. Luke being written as a stickler for the old jedi ways after Yoda stated that the Jedi failed because they refused to adapt like the Sith makes no sense, while Luke not wanting the Jedi to continue while coveting their texts the next moment is another glaring oversight by Rian. Like how he had Huldo sacrifice herself one moment then had Tico scolding Finn for attempting to do the same followed by Luke sacrificing himself to save the resistance afterward. Luke being the main hero or him succeeding isn't the issue, him being turned to a do nothing animal abusing faux nihlist for drama with nothing to show for it is the problem. >> Han and Leia experienced just as much tragedy as Luke but unlike him their characters were written to respond to Kylo's betrayal in a manner that's similar to the personas that Lucas cultivated. Really? Han's personality as defined by Lucas was consistent with him leaving his wife after 20 years to go do stuff with Chewbacca after Ben slaughters everyone in the Academy? M'Kay. >> Luke being written as a stickler for the old jedi ways I don't know where this came from, but Luke is definitely NOT a stickler for the Jedi ways. He just respected them and the ancient texts. >> him being turned to a do nothing animal abusing faux nihlist for drama with nothing to show for it is the problem. Luke's self imposed exile IS an action to get the Republic to stop hero-worshipping and relying on him. He says that flat out. There's nothing contradictory about Han's behavior when he and Leia had a falling out over Ben being taken to Luke's NJO, mind you Ben's slaughter happened around 5 years before TFA. Han got his shit together fairly quickly while Luke was still sulking. Yoda acknowledged the old ways were flawed yet he would allow Luke to continue the practice of separating children from their parents (cause of Solo split) while allowing Luke to covet philosophically obsolete texts that would lead Luke to repeating Yoda's mistakes. Luke's exile was him being a defeatist feeling sorry for himself who wanted the do fuck all to rectify his mistakes, not giving a damn about his allies safety, and Rey calls him out on it. Nevermind the absurdity of Luke expecting the Republic to take on two powerful force users backed by a resurgent imperial army, especially after they downsized their military.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 5, 2018 17:16:45 GMT
Here's hoping Mr. Iger does something soon to correct this idiocy and puts this franchise back on track...
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 5, 2018 17:18:17 GMT
>>Since when assuming is part of a good story telling? I think it's literally a rule for good story telling, don't waste time explaining something so obvious that it can be assumed. Its, like, more important than the "show don't tell" rule. The whole scene is Luke going to confront Ben, so obviously he knew of the dark in Ben and tried to reach out to him earlier. >> Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? Yeah, Luke was probably much less idealistic at this stage of life anyway, and was far more aware of what was at stake. And he didn't try to murder him, the thought crossed his mind for a moment. Obi-Wan and Yoda have a conversation in the novelization of The Revenge of the Sith that each would kill the other if they thought it would end the war, and that Anakin was different because he was more loyal to people than principals. Not sure what Luke saw in Ben, but if it was a dark future, in that moment he chose Ben, and Ben chose himself. People these days have no idea what good storytelling is. They want everything laid out no assumptions or anything. I miss the good old days.
Very true.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 17:27:16 GMT
Here's hoping Mr. Iger does something soon to correct this idiocy and puts this franchise back on track... Nothing to correct.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 5, 2018 17:28:36 GMT
Luke stamping off the get the galaxy to stop hero-worshipping and relying on him is rage-quitting because he had no reason (reason given in first half of this sentence)! NO REASON I TELL YOU! Yeah, just like when Qui-Gon didn't want Amidala and the Naboo to rely on him because he couldn't "fight a war for them", he and Obi-wan fucked off to the planet's core to avoid- oh wait, no they didn't because Qui-Gon mastered the secret Force technique of telling people "yo, I'm not gonna carry your ass, find a way to deal with your shit." Dude this is Wiseau "logic" right here. Do you understand life? As a mod you really should know better not to insult people.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 5, 2018 17:28:50 GMT
Here's hoping Mr. Iger does something soon to correct this idiocy and puts this franchise back on track...
Like listening to whinny entitled fanboys who don't know what they want in a film (or about anything else) other than they want everything just like 1977 (which isn't going to happen) and then when they make a film for you like with TFA and then all they do is whine and bitch and want something "new and different" then when they do that and give them a superior and much better film like TLJ (which in my honest OPINION is the greatest Star Wars film ever made but then I don't treat the Star Wars films as anything other than what they are: dumb sci-fi/fantasy action movies) then you losers whine and bitch "It's too different", honestly his reply should be "don't like it, don't buy/watch it".
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 5, 2018 17:32:52 GMT
Luke stamping off the get the galaxy to stop hero-worshipping and relying on him is rage-quitting because he had no reason (reason given in first half of this sentence)! NO REASON I TELL YOU! Yeah, just like when Qui-Gon didn't want Amidala and the Naboo to rely on him because he couldn't "fight a war for them", he and Obi-wan fucked off to the planet's core to avoid- oh wait, no they didn't because Qui-Gon mastered the secret Force technique of telling people "yo, I'm not gonna carry your ass, find a way to deal with your shit." Dude this is Wiseau "logic" right here. Do you understand life? Do you? (movie reference?) Qui-Gon lived at a time when Jedi were more common and not the singular savior of the Republic. He could say that and people would accept it, or learn to accept it. Luke killed the Emperor and Vader, savior of the Republic that, from his point of view, would not stop relying on him unless he was removed. Hell, he left and they were STILL looking for him to save them. It's really not that hard to understand.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 5, 2018 17:38:22 GMT
Btw are all TLJ fans here also MEA fans?
MEA is another example of misunderstood art killed by toxic fans who just refused to assume that there was a reason for everything that seemingly didn't make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 17:42:28 GMT
>>Since when assuming is part of a good story telling? I think it's literally a rule for good story telling, don't waste time explaining something so obvious that it can be assumed. Its, like, more important than the "show don't tell" rule. The whole scene is Luke going to confront Ben, so obviously he knew of the dark in Ben and tried to reach out to him earlier. >> Also he insists in reaching out to his father who has already killed indiscriminately children (and Sand people and God knows who else) and he'll try to murder his nephew who actually did nothing? Yeah, Luke was probably much less idealistic at this stage of life anyway, and was far more aware of what was at stake. And he didn't try to murder him, the thought crossed his mind for a moment. Obi-Wan and Yoda have a conversation in the novelization of The Revenge of the Sith that each would kill the other if they thought it would end the war, and that Anakin was different because he was more loyal to people than principals. Not sure what Luke saw in Ben, but if it was a dark future, in that moment he chose Ben, and Ben chose himself. People these days have no idea what good storytelling is. They want everything laid out no assumptions or anything. I miss the good old days. Please enlighten me tö what goöd störytelling is. And höw TLJ accomplishes this.
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