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Post by mybudgee on Jul 6, 2018 17:33:52 GMT
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Post by docsteely on Jul 6, 2018 18:17:43 GMT
When did you see him going to Leia? After the fact or at the end? And don't tell me it doesn't make a difference because it does.
And if that makes you feel better about it I'll stop calling it "attempted murder", I'll call it "that briefest moment of pure instinct when Luke ignited his lightsaber intending to stop him", because that's not attempted murder is it?
Luke says he spoke to Leia after the attack and she blamed Snoke. It comes up in his final version of the encounter with Ben. Why would you think he would just leave without telling them what happened at the academy? Why would we even NEED to see that scene? You can call Luke's actions whatever you like. Since it was clearly bait, I've given my assessment of how useful the "attempted murder" designation is, but to me it sounds like name calling. He does not say when he spoke to Leia. He just says "Leia blamed Snoke". Using your argumentation before, I could say that he talked to Leia before the actual attack happened not after, during the "reach out" phase. But as I have no reason to believe that phase actually existed, except for your assumptions, I'll concede you this point.
The fact remains that Luke left after the attack instead of staying and helping Leia and Han and the rest of the galaxy in the fight against the monster he created. He exiled himself, wallowing in self-pity, because that's what Jedi Masters do. Oh and he leaves a map, but when somebody reaches out to him we all know what he does:
And it's cute how you talk about name calling, when all you do is minimize the relevance of Luke's actions just for them to fit your narrative.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 6, 2018 18:35:18 GMT
So Smiles, is this some kind memeception or did the creator just skip the TFA or TLJ or perhaps both?
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 6, 2018 18:42:00 GMT
So Smiles, is this some kind memeception or did the creator just skip the TFA or TLJ or perhaps both? Smells like bullshit. J.J. was always better at creating characters & world-building, not at conclusions. People are almost always true to their nature
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 6, 2018 18:45:05 GMT
So Smiles, is this some kind memeception or did the creator just skip the TFA or TLJ or perhaps both? Yes and? Still plotlines and characters from TFA. So there was a rewrite? Wouldn't be the first one in the history of film making.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 6, 2018 18:54:04 GMT
Smells like bullshit. J.J. was always better at creating characters & world-building, not at conclusions. People are almost always true to their nature Those were only early drafts which go through many iterations, and are nothing definitive like a final draft. Remember how in one Star Wars' early draft Luke was referred to as Starkiller. Plus this confirms that Rian was full of shit. This explains why the plotlines surrounding the Knights of Ren, or Maz trusting a literally who with Anakin's lightsaber were ignored.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 6, 2018 18:57:15 GMT
VHS rental, early 90s. But before that, on the Muppet Babies cartoon show - everytime they opened the closet, it would always show cool Star Wars movie clips. Yeah we got the VHS in the 90s. Later got video CD version too. Like the movie was split in two discs and they were very vulnerable.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 6, 2018 19:01:41 GMT
Anyone try watching ANH on digital (Vudu, Movies Anywhere, GooglePlay, etc...)? I noticed the quality, especially on early Tatooine, is just terrible! Switched back to my Bluray, and the quality wasn't much better (but it was better).
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Post by smilesja on Jul 6, 2018 19:07:12 GMT
Luke says he spoke to Leia after the attack and she blamed Snoke. It comes up in his final version of the encounter with Ben. Why would you think he would just leave without telling them what happened at the academy? Why would we even NEED to see that scene? You can call Luke's actions whatever you like. Since it was clearly bait, I've given my assessment of how useful the "attempted murder" designation is, but to me it sounds like name calling. He does not say when he spoke to Leia. He just says "Leia blamed Snoke". Using your argumentation before, I could say that he talked to Leia before the actual attack happened not after, during the "reach out" phase. But as I have no reason to believe that phase actually existed, except for your assumptions, I'll concede you this point.
The fact remains that Luke left after the attack instead of staying and helping Leia and Han and the rest of the galaxy in the fight against the monster he created. He exiled himself, wallowing in self-pity, because that's what Jedi Masters do. Oh and he leaves a map, but when somebody reaches out to him we all know what he does:
And it's cute how you talk about name calling, when all you do is minimize the relevance of Luke's actions just for them to fit your narrative.
And don't forget while he was gone, billions of people perished thanks to the help of Kylo.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 6, 2018 19:13:37 GMT
Yes and? Still plotlines and characters from TFA. So there was a rewrite? Wouldn't be the first one in the history of film making. A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 6, 2018 19:15:23 GMT
Yes and? Still plotlines and characters from TFA. So there was a rewrite? Wouldn't be the first one in the history of film making. This assumes that TFA was good and worth building from. I have never been bored by Star Wars before. Only on my couch since, when I can pause/fast forward/lol/quit watching for the low low cost of nothing extra spent to see it. It was a rewrite of a bad plot, made criminally worse. That is quite an accomplishment when we talk about Jar Jar Abrams and his reel of shitshows.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 6, 2018 19:50:44 GMT
Yes and? Still plotlines and characters from TFA. So there was a rewrite? Wouldn't be the first one in the history of film making. A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. Was or wasn't Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, central characters in TFA? The first order? Snoke? Even good ole Luke and Leia.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 6, 2018 19:52:23 GMT
That's where I say nö. It is because it is a poörly written mövie that has huge plöt höles and göes against the star wars universe. These a prövable facts. They might nöt interest yöu. But they are there. ok, I get that you are disappointed by some things that broke plot or broke lore. I'll even accept that they are reasonable and legitimate things capable of objective analysis (to you, I don't know because I haven't analysed them or really care). I'm not saying TLJ is the best in the series (I'd put it 7/10). What I find more problematic is that folk are not simply able to share their opinions (or facts), but require others (in this setting anonymous people we don't know) to accept or validate those opinions (or facts). It's unhealthy, it smacks of browbeating in my view.
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 6, 2018 19:53:02 GMT
Yes and? Still plotlines and characters from TFA. So there was a rewrite? Wouldn't be the first one in the history of film making. This assumes that TFA was good and worth building from. I have never been bored by Star Wars before. Only on my couch since, when I can pause/fast forward/lol/quit watching for the low low cost of nothing extra spent to see it. It was a rewrite of a bad plot, made criminally worse. That is quite an accomplishment when we talk about Jar Jar Abrams and his reel of shitshows. It isn't a meme about your boredom however.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 6, 2018 20:08:17 GMT
A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. Was or wasn't Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, central characters in TFA? The first order? Snoke? Even good ole Luke and Leia. Hah, if that's the level of consistency you expect from a sequel, then yes, all is good. Key characters and organisations indeed have the same names.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 6, 2018 20:18:19 GMT
Was or wasn't Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, central characters in TFA? The first order? Snoke? Even good ole Luke and Leia. Hah, if that's the level of consistency you expect from a sequel, then yes, all is good. Key characters and organisations indeed have the same names. So if I understand you correctly the first order decided against the power grab in TLJ? Snoke went for light side? Finn jumped back in line? Poe no more stunts?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 6, 2018 20:54:12 GMT
I find it amazing that this thread would rather talk about TLJ then Solo right now...
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 6, 2018 21:00:48 GMT
I find it amazing that this thread would rather talk about TLJ then Solo right now... *than Also; are you gonna buy the Blu-Ray? I am
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 6, 2018 21:03:54 GMT
I find it amazing that this thread would rather talk about TLJ then Solo right now... *than Also; are you gonna buy the Blu-Ray? I am Yes.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 6, 2018 21:05:02 GMT
Hah, if that's the level of consistency you expect from a sequel, then yes, all is good. Key characters and organisations indeed have the same names. So if I understand you correctly the first order decided against the power grab in TLJ? Snoke went for light side? Finn jumped back in line? Poe no more stunts? The post you originally quoted went like this "A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. "And, you know, it's not exactly obvious why the Republic seems to be gone, why "the Resistance" changed to "the Rebelion" suggesting that the first order is a dominant force in the galaxy, why does the whole rebellion fit in one ship, etc. Those plotlines are major in scale, but then you have all those things that TFA sets up and TLJ ignores/dispenses with like: - Rey's parents - Luke's hallucinogenic lightsaber - Who the fuck is Snoke? - Why's Kylo talking to Vader's helmet and asking him to "show him the vision again"? - What are Knight's of Ren of which Kylo is the mightiest one? - Why Luke disappeared, but previosly left pieces of a map leading to his location all over the galaxy? - Why does R2D2 activate and reveal the last piece in presence of Rey? There are some inconsistencies within TLJ itself: - Poe is getting shit from Leia and Holdo for being rash and taking unnecessary risks, he keeps doing that throughout the movie and then Leia passes leadership onto him anyway - Why is Holdo risking mutiny instead of sharing her plan with everyone (or at least other leaders)? - How did Rey become a Jedi exactly? By doing everything but training as a Jedi? Some more with the previous movies: - force ghosts can interact with the living now? Even strike things with lightnings? - who's Jake Skywalker? etc.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 6, 2018 21:34:49 GMT
So if I understand you correctly the first order decided against the power grab in TLJ? Snoke went for light side? Finn jumped back in line? Poe no more stunts? The post you originally quoted went like this "A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. "And, you know, it's not exactly obvious why the Republic seems to be gone, why "the Resistance" changed to "the Rebelion" suggesting that the first order is a dominant force in the galaxy, why does the whole rebellion fit in one ship, etc. Those plotlines are major in scale, but then you have all those things that TFA sets up and TLJ ignores/dispenses with like: - Rey's parents - Luke's hallucinogenic lightsaber - Who the fuck is Snoke? - Why's Kylo talking to Vader's helmet and asking him to "show him the vision again"? - What are Knight's of Ren of which Kylo is the mightiest one? - Why Luke disappeared, but previosly left pieces of a map leading to his location all over the galaxy? - Why does R2D2 activate and reveal the last piece in presence of Rey? There are some inconsistencies within TLJ itself: - Poe is getting shit from Leia and Holdo for being rash and taking unnecessary risks, he keeps doing that throughout the movie and then Leia passes leadership onto him anyway - Why is Holdo risking mutiny instead of sharing her plan with everyone (or at least other leaders)? - How did Rey become a Jedi exactly? By doing everything but training as a Jedi? Some more with the previous movies: - force ghosts can interact with the living now? Even strike things with lightnings? - who's Jake Skywalker? etc. I can answer about the Holdo encounters... 1) She quietly told this commander who was just demoted to capt to piss off, cuz she was busy with commmand stuff, etc. 2) Said demoted commander flipped out when he saw the shuttles being fueled, and called her, I think "treasonous"? It was something bad, but basically Poe challenged her authority in front of the whole bridge. Anyway... 3) Said demoted commander explains risky hair-brained scheme executed behind her back, and then threatens and commits mutiny. All things considered she probably could have handled things differently, and just guessing here, her plan's success depended so much on secrecy, she didn't want to spread word of it around, especially to commanders recently demoted for reckless behavior.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 6, 2018 21:41:23 GMT
So if I understand you correctly the first order decided against the power grab in TLJ? Snoke went for light side? Finn jumped back in line? Poe no more stunts? The post you originally quoted went like this "A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. "And, you know, it's not exactly obvious why the Republic seems to be gone, why "the Resistance" changed to "the Rebelion" suggesting that the first order is a dominant force in the galaxy, why does the whole rebellion fit in one ship, etc. Those plotlines are major in scale, but then you have all those things that TFA sets up and TLJ ignores/dispenses with like: - Rey's parents - Luke's hallucinogenic lightsaber - Who the fuck is Snoke? - Why's Kylo talking to Vader's helmet and asking him to "show him the vision again"? - What are Knight's of Ren of which Kylo is the mightiest one? - Why Luke disappeared, but previosly left pieces of a map leading to his location all over the galaxy? - Why does R2D2 activate and reveal the last piece in presence of Rey? There are some inconsistencies within TLJ itself: - Poe is getting shit from Leia and Holdo for being rash and taking unnecessary risks, he keeps doing that throughout the movie and then Leia passes leadership onto him anyway - Why is Holdo risking mutiny instead of sharing her plan with everyone (or at least other leaders)? - How did Rey become a Jedi exactly? By doing everything but training as a Jedi? Some more with the previous movies: - force ghosts can interact with the living now? Even strike things with lightnings? - who's Jake Skywalker? etc. Those things are minor for the most part and left open for the viewer. Some were explained partly and likely fully in IX. Seriously if you guys need everything explained I’d love to see you watch some classic movies that are purposely left open ended.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 6, 2018 21:52:02 GMT
The post you originally quoted went like this "A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. "And, you know, it's not exactly obvious why the Republic seems to be gone, why "the Resistance" changed to "the Rebelion" suggesting that the first order is a dominant force in the galaxy, why does the whole rebellion fit in one ship, etc. Those plotlines are major in scale, but then you have all those things that TFA sets up and TLJ ignores/dispenses with like: - Rey's parents - Luke's hallucinogenic lightsaber - Who the fuck is Snoke? - Why's Kylo talking to Vader's helmet and asking him to "show him the vision again"? - What are Knight's of Ren of which Kylo is the mightiest one? - Why Luke disappeared, but previosly left pieces of a map leading to his location all over the galaxy? - Why does R2D2 activate and reveal the last piece in presence of Rey? There are some inconsistencies within TLJ itself: - Poe is getting shit from Leia and Holdo for being rash and taking unnecessary risks, he keeps doing that throughout the movie and then Leia passes leadership onto him anyway - Why is Holdo risking mutiny instead of sharing her plan with everyone (or at least other leaders)? - How did Rey become a Jedi exactly? By doing everything but training as a Jedi? Some more with the previous movies: - force ghosts can interact with the living now? Even strike things with lightnings? - who's Jake Skywalker? etc. Those things are minor
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 6, 2018 22:03:00 GMT
The post you originally quoted went like this "A rewrite that ignores key plotlines from the previous film, the Flanderization of multiple characters, added multiple contradictions to the established lore, and retroactively added plotholes to past films. Rian's script reads more like a standalone film than a direct sequel due to it's number of inconsistencies. "And, you know, it's not exactly obvious why the Republic seems to be gone, why "the Resistance" changed to "the Rebelion" suggesting that the first order is a dominant force in the galaxy, why does the whole rebellion fit in one ship, etc. Those plotlines are major in scale, but then you have all those things that TFA sets up and TLJ ignores/dispenses with like: - Rey's parents - Luke's hallucinogenic lightsaber - Who the fuck is Snoke? - Why's Kylo talking to Vader's helmet and asking him to "show him the vision again"? - What are Knight's of Ren of which Kylo is the mightiest one? - Why Luke disappeared, but previosly left pieces of a map leading to his location all over the galaxy? - Why does R2D2 activate and reveal the last piece in presence of Rey? There are some inconsistencies within TLJ itself: - Poe is getting shit from Leia and Holdo for being rash and taking unnecessary risks, he keeps doing that throughout the movie and then Leia passes leadership onto him anyway - Why is Holdo risking mutiny instead of sharing her plan with everyone (or at least other leaders)? - How did Rey become a Jedi exactly? By doing everything but training as a Jedi? Some more with the previous movies: - force ghosts can interact with the living now? Even strike things with lightnings? - who's Jake Skywalker? etc. I can answer about the Holdo encounters... 1) She quietly told this commander who was just demoted to capt to piss off, cuz she was busy with commmand stuff, etc. 2) Said demoted commander flipped out when he saw the shuttles being fueled, and called her, I think "treasonous"? It was something bad, but basically Poe challenged her authority in front of the whole bridge. Anyway... 3) Said demoted commander explains risky hairbrained scheme behind her back, and then threatens mutiny. All things considered she probably could have handled things differently, and just guessing here, her plan's success depended so much on secrecy, she didn't want to spread word of it around, especially to commanders recently demoted for reckless behavior. Holdo's plan relying on secrecy is non-sensical after Rose told Finn earlier that crew members were deserting due to low morale, and was why she stood watch over the last of the escape pods. Why create more despair when Holdo could have eased tensions and stated that she had a plan, nothing more? So many crew members siding with Poe after his demotion over Holdo speaks volumes about her social ineptitude.
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