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Post by colfoley on Jul 7, 2018 1:40:42 GMT
I would like them to explore the bad guy's side more, either the Empire or the First Order. We got that a bit with the Sepratists in the Clone Wars series and yeah there are books about the other side, but it would be interesting to have one of the side movies follow a group of Stormtroopers or something, akin to something like the Hand of Judgement from the old EU. We got a lot of that in Rogue One...and well somewhat in Battlefront 2. Granted it could be argued we should see more of it and I am not sure I wouldn't be open to the idea. But as far as it goes Rogue One presented Krennic (who is actually one of my favorite SWs baddies) as rather workmanlike and down to earth despite what hewas setting out to accomplish. He really put an interesting twist on the Empire and more bad guys like that (maybe Hux?) would do nothing but improve the series in the long run.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 1:42:31 GMT
Uh....care to enlighten us as to what they are?? End chaos and bring order, stability, and peace to the galaxy. Finish what the Empire started. My God... I think your brilliance just ended the debate. Praise your intellect
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 7, 2018 1:43:57 GMT
End chaos and bring order, stability, and peace to the galaxy. Finish what the Empire started. My God... I think your brilliance just ended the debate. Praise your intellect No need to be like that.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 1:51:29 GMT
End chaos and bring order, stability, and peace to the galaxy. Finish what the Empire started. My God... I think your brilliance just ended the debate. Praise your intellect You can disagree, don’t be an ass.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 7, 2018 1:52:26 GMT
My God... I think your brilliance just ended the debate. Praise your intellect No need to be like that. Comes with the territory.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 7, 2018 1:53:05 GMT
I can answer about the Holdo encounters... 1) She quietly told this commander who was just demoted to capt to piss off, cuz she was busy with commmand stuff, etc. 2) Said demoted commander flipped out when he saw the shuttles being fueled, and called her, I think "treasonous"? It was something bad, but basically Poe challenged her authority in front of the whole bridge. Anyway... 3) Said demoted commander explains risky hair-brained scheme executed behind her back, and then threatens and commits mutiny. All things considered she probably could have handled things differently, and just guessing here, her plan's success depended so much on secrecy, she didn't want to spread word of it around, especially to commanders recently demoted for reckless behavior. Yeah, that's pretty much how it went. Their plan was to retreat to a nearby base which isn't something she should be hiding from anyone really, because retreating to a defensible position is the obvious thing to do. It could have been justified by throwing in a single line of dialogue about how she (or Leia) suspects that they might have a mole in their crew. This doesn't happen, instead she pulls rank on Poe, doesn't do anything to calm down her increasingly panicing crew pretty much forcing them to mutiny. Anyway, let's assume she has a good reason to keep her plan a secret, but then why would Leia pass leadership to Poe after he kept making one "reckless" decision after another throughout the whole movie? That was the reason why he got demoted in the first place and he only added to it. The movie logic is: because Poe called off the skiff attack on the First Order as a "suicide run". This showed Leia that Poe had grown past his need to win with reckless heroics, and was instead focusing on the real goal of the Resistance, survival. Its a bit of a hit or miss lesson on the audience given how much damage his "plan" caused in the evacuation, I'll be curious to see how this is explained in the novel.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 1:58:05 GMT
My God... I think your brilliance just ended the debate. Praise your intellect You can disagree, don’t be an ass. LoL... you're about 25 years too late with that amazing piece of advice
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Post by colfoley on Jul 7, 2018 2:02:13 GMT
Yeah, that's pretty much how it went. Their plan was to retreat to a nearby base which isn't something she should be hiding from anyone really, because retreating to a defensible position is the obvious thing to do. It could have been justified by throwing in a single line of dialogue about how she (or Leia) suspects that they might have a mole in their crew. This doesn't happen, instead she pulls rank on Poe, doesn't do anything to calm down her increasingly panicing crew pretty much forcing them to mutiny. Anyway, let's assume she has a good reason to keep her plan a secret, but then why would Leia pass leadership to Poe after he kept making one "reckless" decision after another throughout the whole movie? That was the reason why he got demoted in the first place and he only added to it. The movie logic is: because Poe called off the skiff attack on the First Order as a "suicide run". This showed Leia that Poe had grown past his need to win with reckless heroics, and was instead focusing on the real goal of the Resistance, survival. Its a bit of a hit or miss lesson on the audience given how much damage his "plan" caused in the evacuation, I'll be curious to see how this is explained in the novel. it is also hinky given if Poe hadn't done it they might have been screwed.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 7, 2018 2:11:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 2:18:11 GMT
Yeah okay, fine I get your point. I concede on these grounds (but that just makes them unoriginal if anything) Doesn’t make them bad. It makes them uninteresting and boring, if anything.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 7, 2018 2:20:58 GMT
I would like them to explore the bad guy's side more, either the Empire or the First Order. We got that a bit with the Sepratists in the Clone Wars series and yeah there are books about the other side, but it would be interesting to have one of the side movies follow a group of Stormtroopers or something, akin to something like the Hand of Judgement from the old EU. We got a lot of that in Rogue One...and well somewhat in Battlefront 2. Granted it could be argued we should see more of it and I am not sure I wouldn't be open to the idea. But as far as it goes Rogue One presented Krennic (who is actually one of my favorite SWs baddies) as rather workmanlike and down to earth despite what hewas setting out to accomplish. He really put an interesting twist on the Empire and more bad guys like that (maybe Hux?) would do nothing but improve the series in the long run. The Separatists in the Clone Wars and Palpatine's rise to power in the aftermath made a lot more sense when the EU novels explained the corruption and inept bureaucracy in the Republic - but I really don't know what the First Order's support is. I think JJ Abrams described them like a radical fundamentalist sect like ISIS. I'd be interested in their logistics, and how they managed to collect all of that ordinance, especially something like Starkiller base. It is pretty ridiculous that they were able to build that without the New Republic or any of their allies discovering it. Hux is definitely growing on me. His sniveling competence is entertaining, and makes him one of the more interesting characters. If the next movie IX doesn't take place in week 2 right after TLJ, maybe a novel or something can flesh out his character with a decent story after TLJ.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 2:26:40 GMT
It makes them uninteresting and boring, if anything. To you not to me. Could they go into more detail and depth maybe but at worst they are explaining things no worse than episodes 1-6 and imo that’s not a bad thing.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 2:30:05 GMT
It makes them uninteresting and boring, if anything. To you not to me. Could they go into more detail and depth maybe but at worst they are explaining things no worse than episodes 1-6 and imo that’s not a bad thing. I can't speak for anyone else but I, for one am not buying your manure
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 7, 2018 2:50:05 GMT
Ah... the X-Wing takeoff from ANH. I heard there was only one full size model. Sweet! Always brings a smile to my face...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 2:56:00 GMT
It makes them uninteresting and boring, if anything. To you not to me. Could they go into more detail and depth maybe but at worst they are explaining things no worse than episodes 1-6 and imo that’s not a bad thing.Okay Griffith, okay.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 7, 2018 2:56:16 GMT
My God... I think your brilliance just ended the debate. Praise your intellect You can disagree, don’t be an ass.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 7, 2018 3:17:52 GMT
We got a lot of that in Rogue One...and well somewhat in Battlefront 2. Granted it could be argued we should see more of it and I am not sure I wouldn't be open to the idea. But as far as it goes Rogue One presented Krennic (who is actually one of my favorite SWs baddies) as rather workmanlike and down to earth despite what hewas setting out to accomplish. He really put an interesting twist on the Empire and more bad guys like that (maybe Hux?) would do nothing but improve the series in the long run. The Separatists in the Clone Wars and Palpatine's rise to power in the aftermath made a lot more sense when the EU novels explained the corruption and inept bureaucracy in the Republic - but I really don't know what the First Order's support is. I think JJ Abrams described them like a radical fundamentalist sect like ISIS. I'd be interested in their logistics, and how they managed to collect all of that ordinance, especially something like Starkiller base. It is pretty ridiculous that they were able to build that without the New Republic or any of their allies discovering it. From what I remember, a lot of the resources the First Order have is due to them basically being a kind of contingency plan if the Empire ever fell. Palpatine put things in place and then they are in hiding for decades building up their strength while the New Republic downsized their military since the galaxy seemed at peace. The only ones seeing the threat being the Resistance. As for Starkiller Base, the First Order didn’t build it but found it in the Unknown Regions.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 3:29:44 GMT
The Separatists in the Clone Wars and Palpatine's rise to power in the aftermath made a lot more sense when the EU novels explained the corruption and inept bureaucracy in the Republic - but I really don't know what the First Order's support is. I think JJ Abrams described them like a radical fundamentalist sect like ISIS. I'd be interested in their logistics, and how they managed to collect all of that ordinance, especially something like Starkiller base. It is pretty ridiculous that they were able to build that without the New Republic or any of their allies discovering it. From what I remember, a lot of the resources the First Order have is due to them basically being a kind of contingency plan if the Empire ever fell. Palpatine put things in place and then they are in hiding for decades building up their strength while the New Republic downsized their military since the galaxy seemed at peace. The only ones seeing the threat being the Resistance. As for Starkiller Base, the First Order didn’t build it but found it in the Unknown Regions. Damn it. I want to debate you, but unlike many other TLJ defenders you seem to be adept in the use of logic & reason
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 7, 2018 5:04:28 GMT
To you not to me. Could they go into more detail and depth maybe but at worst they are explaining things no worse than episodes 1-6 and imo that’s not a bad thing.Okay Griffith, okay.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 7, 2018 5:29:56 GMT
I find it amazing that this thread would rather talk about TLJ then Solo right now... TLJ shat first?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 7, 2018 8:03:55 GMT
The Separatists in the Clone Wars and Palpatine's rise to power in the aftermath made a lot more sense when the EU novels explained the corruption and inept bureaucracy in the Republic - but I really don't know what the First Order's support is. I think JJ Abrams described them like a radical fundamentalist sect like ISIS. I'd be interested in their logistics, and how they managed to collect all of that ordinance, especially something like Starkiller base. It is pretty ridiculous that they were able to build that without the New Republic or any of their allies discovering it. From what I remember, a lot of the resources the First Order have is due to them basically being a kind of contingency plan if the Empire ever fell. Palpatine put things in place and then they are in hiding for decades building up their strength while the New Republic downsized their military since the galaxy seemed at peace. The only ones seeing the threat being the Resistance. As for Starkiller Base, the First Order didn’t build it but found it in the Unknown Regions. Tis as interesting explanation as any. Actually one of the other things I did like about TLJ too is it basically reset both groups and made them very, very, veerrry small. The FO did kind of get its butt greatly reduced because of the 'Holdo Manuever'.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 8:38:01 GMT
I should point out that though I had serious issues with a lot of stuff that went on in TFA and TLJ, I can tell you I loved some of the new characters: Poe, Finn and Rey. Yes, I disliked how Rey magically was a better Force user/lightsaber fighter than someone actually trained in this stuff, but I like her as a character. I really like the developing friendship between Poe and Finn but hated how it was simply dropped in TLJ. Those two points are issues I had with the sequels. I won't even get into Leia flying through space or Luke being an asshole.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 8:40:23 GMT
I find it amazing that this thread would rather talk about TLJ then Solo right now... Why? I know a lot of people found it an unnecessary movie but it wasn't bad on the level of TLJ. Anger fuels more discussion than indifference.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jul 7, 2018 10:56:48 GMT
If they wanted to be better than the prequels they should've done this at first, which they didn't do at all. You missed my point. You said explaining the villain's motivations is an essential part of Star Wars, and yet the villains of the original movies didn't have their motivations explored until decades later. Before that they were just like the First Order is right now: Space Nazis. I agree they should have explored it more, but not exploring it doesn't go against being Star Wars. If we don't get that explored by 2043 then it is not like Star Wars. And your missing the point that unlike the original films, the new movies had the luxury on building upon a well established foundation.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 7, 2018 10:59:16 GMT
The Separatists in the Clone Wars and Palpatine's rise to power in the aftermath made a lot more sense when the EU novels explained the corruption and inept bureaucracy in the Republic - but I really don't know what the First Order's support is. I think JJ Abrams described them like a radical fundamentalist sect like ISIS. I'd be interested in their logistics, and how they managed to collect all of that ordinance, especially something like Starkiller base. It is pretty ridiculous that they were able to build that without the New Republic or any of their allies discovering it. From what I remember, a lot of the resources the First Order have is due to them basically being a kind of contingency plan if the Empire ever fell. Palpatine put things in place and then they are in hiding for decades building up their strength while the New Republic downsized their military since the galaxy seemed at peace. The only ones seeing the threat being the Resistance. As for Starkiller Base, the First Order didn’t build it but found it in the Unknown Regions. From the Bloodlines novel, the New Republic is basically a deadlocked quagmire between the Centrists (who favor strong centralized control and military buildup) and the Populists (who at their most extreme are disillusioned with the entire idea of galactic government). Certain more extreme Centrist world’s were providing resources to the First Order for years before they made themselves known. And the New Republic has embraced demilitarization to the point of struggling to handle pirates let alone the First Order.
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