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Post by Lady Artifice on Jun 21, 2017 21:35:23 GMT
Her people were. Being an average Angaran in Kadara port meant enduring subjugation at the hands of an invading force. Under Keema's ostensible leadership, Kadara starts to experience almost the opposite problem. It's true that she might be ambitious enough to want even more, but it wouldn't be even close to the same thing as the previous rebellion. And? Just because a person's race is oppressed(or "oppressed" in Kadara's case) doesn't mean an individual is. History is full of people who throw their own under the bus to get an edge, and Keema is one of those people. It's also full of people who would go to great lengths to defend their own people. Keema definitely might prove to be exclusively self interested in the end, but again, her helping to overthrow an invader who stripped her people of their rights doesn't itself prove that to be a facet of her character.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 21, 2017 21:49:01 GMT
And? Just because a person's race is oppressed(or "oppressed" in Kadara's case) doesn't mean an individual is. History is full of people who throw their own under the bus to get an edge, and Keema is one of those people. It's also full of people who would go to great lengths to defend their own people. Keema definitely might prove to be exclusively self interested in the end, but again, her helping to overthrow an invader who stripped her people of their rights doesn't itself prove that to be a facet of her character. With your view of her character, it still shows that she will eventually turn on Reyes since like Sloane he is an invader who stripped her and her people of their power. So you may be right, but whether she is entirely selfish or selfless doesn't matter since in either case if she betrays one she will betray the other since the motivation for her betrayal applies to both.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jun 21, 2017 21:51:30 GMT
It's also full of people who would go to great lengths to defend their own people. Keema definitely might prove to be exclusively self interested in the end, but again, her helping to overthrow an invader who stripped her people of their rights doesn't itself prove that to be a facet of her character. With your own explanation of her character, it still shows that she will eventually turn on Reyes since like Sloane he is an invader who stripped her and her people of their power. So you may be right, but whether she is entirely selfish or selfless doesn't matter since in either case if she betrays one she will betray the other since the motivation for her betrayal applies to both. Not even a little bit. In the second case, she's in a leadership position and her people are essentially treated as the sovereign citizens again. If anyone experiences subjugation in Reyes-ruled-Kadara, it's way more likely to be the exiles than the Angarans. Now again, she might definitely still want more. She might secretly want all non-Angarans off of Kadara entirely. But so far, that's still an unknown. Her overthrowing a tyrant doesn't prove she wants tyranny for herself.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 21, 2017 21:56:26 GMT
With your own explanation of her character, it still shows that she will eventually turn on Reyes since like Sloane he is an invader who stripped her and her people of their power. So you may be right, but whether she is entirely selfish or selfless doesn't matter since in either case if she betrays one she will betray the other since the motivation for her betrayal applies to both. Not even a little bit. In the second case, she's in a leadership position and her people are essentially treated as the sovereign citizens again. If anyone experiences subjugation in Reyes-ruled-Kadara, it's way more likely to be the exiles than the Angarans. She leads nothing but instead is a puppet government, and puppet governments tend to not like being puppets especially when that was what they were before. And Reyes would never allow the exiles to be subjugated(other than by him and his people) so that scenario you mentioned would cause friction which would eventually ignite into war between the two. There is no scenario where peace is guaranteed, which is my point. Keema can be a enemy to both leaders if Bioware wants a domestic threat route for this hypothetical story.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jun 21, 2017 22:06:27 GMT
Not even a little bit. In the second case, she's in a leadership position and her people are essentially treated as the sovereign citizens again. If anyone experiences subjugation in Reyes-ruled-Kadara, it's way more likely to be the exiles than the Angarans. She leads nothing but instead is a puppet government, and puppet governments tend to not like being puppets especially when that was what they were before. And Reyes would never allow the exiles to be subjugated(other than by him and his people) so that scenario you mentioned would cause friction which would eventually ignite into war between the two. There is no scenario where peace is guaranteed, which is my point. Keema can be a enemy to both leaders if Bioware wants a domestic threat route for this hypothetical story. Yes, and that's a reasonable larger point, one that I didn't disagree with. The specific claim I addressed was the suggestion that she acted out of personal ambition, and therefore might choose to do so again. As I said, it should be noted that there is a distinct moral difference between overthrowing an oppressor and a benefactor/employer. Her doing the former is not itself indicative of a willingness to do the latter.
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Post by BloodOfShiagur on Jun 21, 2017 22:19:01 GMT
So, if Keema acted merely on personal ambition, she might as well do so again. If she rebelled against an oppressor, she may very soon see another one in somebody who doesn't let her promote the Angara on the expense of the exiles. She can't be trusted no matter how you choose to look at it. There's still a conflict coming, honorable Keema or not.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jun 22, 2017 1:12:47 GMT
So, if Keema acted merely on personal ambition, she might as well do so again. If she rebelled against an oppressor, she may very soon see another one in somebody who doesn't let her promote the Angara on the expense of the exiles. She can't be trusted no matter how you choose to look at it. There's still a conflict coming, honorable Keema or not. Very possibly. Keema definitely comes off as someone with flexible morals.
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Post by starlord on Jun 22, 2017 3:51:27 GMT
Wow, I am really loving this Keema discourse... Now I can't really decide what I think... In my opinion, it seems a little obvious. However, that doesn't mean that it won't happen. Actually the more we carve into it, the more it seems apparent that they might choose it. Maybe if Kaetus is still alive, Keema and Kaetus form kind of a deal behind Reyes's back, and they could mobilize The Outcasts (and possibly the Roekarr) against you and The Collective. In a dream world, it would be cool if it's revealed that Keema is pro-Angara- maybe depending on what Ryder does, she'll be a villain or not. Like if Ryder chooses Moshae as Ambassador, doesn't destroy the Khett facility and other stuff that helps the Angara, maybe she won't turn? By the way, I did a thing... Debating whether or not to share it as a sneak peek.
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Post by starlord on Jun 22, 2017 3:55:55 GMT
Also, does anyone think we will receive a patch with more Reyes romance stuff or is that just too much wishful thinking?
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tehprincessj
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Post by tehprincessj on Jun 22, 2017 4:33:01 GMT
Also, does anyone think we will receive a patch with more Reyes romance stuff or is that just too much wishful thinking? IDK any more. Anyone who's been around here long knows that I'm the Queen of I WANT TO BELIEVE!!!, but I'm slowly coming around to the naysayers' side of things. At this point, I'm going to go ahead and say I'll be really surprised if Andromeda gets DLC at all. As to a patch for Reyes, I don't really see that happening since their solution to the m/m issues was to make Jaal bi. Removing Scott's Queen of Kadara banter is taking stuff away from the romance, which is the exact opposite of what needed to be done. I hate being this pessimistic, guys.
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Post by orchid on Jun 22, 2017 6:33:54 GMT
In my opinion, it seems a little obvious. However, that doesn't mean that it won't happen. Actually the more we carve into it, the more it seems apparent that they might choose it. Maybe if Kaetus is still alive, Keema and Kaetus form kind of a deal behind Reyes's back, and they could mobilize The Outcasts (and possibly the Roekarr) against you and The Collective. In a dream world, it would be cool if it's revealed that Keema is pro-Angara- maybe depending on what Ryder does, she'll be a villain or not. Like if Ryder chooses Moshae as Ambassador, doesn't destroy the Khett facility and other stuff that helps the Angara, maybe she won't turn? By the way, I did a thing... Debating whether or not to share it as a sneak peek. The Kett presence meant that there wasn't much room for exploring potential conflicts of interest between Milky Way people and the Angara, but after the Meridian victory those issues should arise stronger. Your idea would be a good way to get Ryder involved in that. Also there should be opportunities to promote the Initiative (or Milkies in general) at the Angarans' expense, or vice versa. Now I don't seem to remember anymore if Keema was in any way affiliated with the resistance. It would make sense if she and Reyes first got in contact that way, since he does work with Evfra &co. Then again I have a faint recollection of Keema saying that she didn't have any resistance ties? If it was so, then it probably lessens the probability of Keema being a brave fighter for her people's freedom or anything like that. She seems happier being a puppet serving under a crime boss than freezing her ass off on Voeld, for sure. She probably is happy about the Angara not being publicly beaten anymore, but that's hardly her priority. I imagine the local Angara definitely welcomed Sloane after she purged the Kett, and Keema possibly being their spokeswoman at first. The Collective taking over is probably seen as another improvement, but they still must want more power, it'd only be natural. I never share advance peeks at my projects, because I fear I'll lose momentum and end up abandoning them. If you're stronger than that, just go for it! About potential patches, what we got re:Reyes in the last one was: - the romance flag conflict with Gil and Reyes fixed - you can't fully romance both anymore - Vetra's romance comment to m!Ryder removed (with no replacement) Unfortunately, to me it seems that this was it. The comments and bug reports about the clipping issues have been ignored, even after direct inquiries. If "small" issues like these are neglected, then I can't see us getting anything bigger like an extended Meridian party scene. (It's actually only after this Vetra "fix" that I've realized what a small afterthought the entire M/M part of the Reyes romance was; I wonder if the romance was originally written as F/M only.) If there's a DLC, it's going to be the Quarians and probably isolated from the rest of the Heleus Cluster, meaning that only Tempest crew gets new content. I'm not expecting to see any more of Reyes, ever.
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Post by Zitrus on Jun 22, 2017 8:24:45 GMT
I'm cautious about Keema, the cigar doesn't help^^. I don't know if she would work with Keatus. She is actually in favour of killing him. But then again, plans can change. She doesn't seem like just a puppet. She says Reyes listens to her far more than Sloane ever did. Okay, she probably hardly did but still. Being the face was one of her conditions but she is too ambitious to be just that. So either Reyes and she work together or she tries to overthrow him because things don't go as she likes or she wants the power for herself and/or her people. The game sure could use more conflict with the whole colonization scenario. Keema in her own words judges people not groups so she is not universally against the new aliens but of course she looks out for her own people and makes sure they don't get shortchanged. And she wants to get ahead, have some power, no doubt. No, she is not with the resistance. They share some information but her main concern is Kadara. Jaal hangs out in the HQ afterwards and since Reyes helped the resistance before maybe they could form some sort of alliance? Aya's governor also asked Ryder if she should make contact with Keema or something. I told her to wait a bit because Kadara politics are difficult. I have the feeling Reyes is not a top priority for them. They did say more patches are coming so maybe they will surprise us. At least they finally fixed the romance flag. Many pages back there was this little discussion about the quarian ark dlc. If guess if they want, they could include Reyes. Ah well, I'll stay optimistic, there is already so much negativity in the forum. Oh forgot about the sneak peek, how could I. Hit us with it if you feel like it. If not, that's fine, too.
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Post by BloodOfShiagur on Jun 22, 2017 11:59:31 GMT
Many pages back there was this little discussion about the quarian ark dlc. If guess if they want, they could include Reyes. Ah well, I'll stay optimistic, there is already so much negativity in the forum. Yep, let's stay a positive, chill thread. Nothing's dead yet. It's not dead till there is fool-proof evidence it is. (Whoa, look at me saying that. I'm usually the most grumpy, irritated naysayer around -not gaming related specifically, I cut games a lot of slack. hell, it's just entertainment. Anything and anyone else related, more like-. This thread is having an impact on my mental health, damn it ) starlord I'm torn. I usually prefer the whole thing to a teaser but at this point I'm curious. So.. whatever you like? I love being helpful
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Post by tehprincessj on Jun 22, 2017 15:34:29 GMT
In an effort to negate my earlier naysaying I need to get opinions. HAPPY opinions. I'm trying to definitively decide if I think Reyes wears underwear or if he goes commando. I need this for naughty fic reasons, but also just so I can have it built into my headcanon. So... thoughts? Myself, I'm thinking it's either boxer-briefs or nothing at all.
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Post by orchid on Jun 22, 2017 17:55:57 GMT
Yep, let's stay a positive, chill thread. I'd probs be more optimistic if the climax to the romance wasn't glitched patches after patches and months after months of expectant optimism, but I'm still being chill. I don't know the limits of Frosty Editor, but some talented individual may one day fix a lot of these issues. He dresses in layers and never takes his gloves off, so I'd hazard a guess he wears boringly sensible undies, suitable for Kadara's alien environment. BUT he might go commando for some special occasion. Like if he's expecting to score with Ryder in some shitty storeroom, lol. In other news, I can't see this scene as nothing else than Reyes blatantly checking Ryder out: Am I mad?
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Post by tehprincessj on Jun 22, 2017 18:05:01 GMT
Not at all. His eyes are all over Ryder.
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Post by Zitrus on Jun 22, 2017 18:24:37 GMT
Yay, let's stay happy. The video: He sure does. Nothing wrong with looking. Underwear : I'm fine with boxer briefs. A picture for the occasion.
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BloodOfShiagur
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Post by BloodOfShiagur on Jun 22, 2017 19:03:08 GMT
Staying chill is the only thing we can do about it so it seems like a reasonable course of action from where I'm standing. To add to the party mood, I have just modded my Ryder to my satisfaction. Just a few more touches and I'm going to be completely happy. Red-brown hair, finally. Not that washed out ginger something... It's a very important thing to do right before the final mission. Now I'm totally considering a new great-looking run. The video and comments: so I'm not paranoidly making it up. He is staring at Ryder... smug bastard. Underwear: now that's the important question to ask. Because how do people on Kadara wash their underwear with all the toxic water? How much underwear do the people of Kadara actually have? Where do they get it from? What was the underwear limit when the AI departed?? All of this just leads me to assume that Reyes just might go commando... (in case you asked, yes, that's my vision of dirty thoughts... )
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Post by Zitrus on Jun 22, 2017 20:12:53 GMT
Those are the important questions. I go with 2-4 weeks of underwear as the limit. The exiles either took some with them from the Nexus or made it, 3d printer like. How do they even wash themselves with clean water in short supply? No long showers then. At least one NPC says Ryder doesn't look as dirty as the others. I thought maybe alcohol is the solution here and they got plenty of that. I actually looked this up and vodka is good against smells in clothes. And I found a concept for a waterless washing machine which cleans with dry ice. Since this is the far future, something like this must exist (oh with mass effect fields maybe). Or the clothes just stay clean with an anti-dirt coating, this would solve everything and they wouldn't need much. Didn't see a washer in the Tempest either.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jun 22, 2017 21:11:54 GMT
Those are the important questions. I go with 2-4 weeks of underwear as the limit. The exiles either took some with them from the Nexus or made it, 3d printer like. How do they even wash themselves with clean water in short supply? No long showers then. At least one NPC says Ryder doesn't look as dirty as the others. I thought maybe alcohol is the solution here and they got plenty of that. I actually looked this up and vodka is good against smells in clothes. And I found a concept for a waterless washing machine which cleans with dry ice. Since this is the far future, something like this must exist (oh with mass effect fields maybe). Or the clothes just stay clean with an anti-dirt coating, this would solve everything and they wouldn't need much. Didn't see a washer in the Tempest either. There is a washer and dryer on the Tempest because Peebee mentions finding an ugly colorful sweater that somebody left there and Kallo gives Ryder codes to allow his wash to move to the front of the line ahead of others.
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Post by Zitrus on Jun 22, 2017 21:16:48 GMT
Ha, I forgot, thx. So washing clothes is still a thing then.
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tehprincessj
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Post by tehprincessj on Jun 22, 2017 21:57:43 GMT
Leaning more toward boxer-briefs now, I think. The layers thing is compelling evidence for sure. I'd still like to hear all opinions, so, my favorite thread, keep them coming, please.
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BloodOfShiagur
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Post by BloodOfShiagur on Jun 22, 2017 22:33:11 GMT
Those are the important questions. I go with 2-4 weeks of underwear as the limit. The exiles either took some with them from the Nexus or made it, 3d printer like. How do they even wash themselves with clean water in short supply? No long showers then. At least one NPC says Ryder doesn't look as dirty as the others. I thought maybe alcohol is the solution here and they got plenty of that. I actually looked this up and vodka is good against smells in clothes. And I found a concept for a waterless washing machine which cleans with dry ice. Since this is the far future, something like this must exist (oh with mass effect fields maybe). Or the clothes just stay clean with an anti-dirt coating, this would solve everything and they wouldn't need much. Didn't see a washer in the Tempest either. Lol. Still, it must be weird to get to the point in life where you are considering what underwear you are going to pack on your trip to another galaxy They even said somewhere there was plenty of alcohol on Kadara, so... vodka showers? And 3d printed underwear, coming from a single printer snatched by some daring exile on the way out of the Nexus? Never a dull moment on that planet, is there? But I agree, there should be at least some anti-dirt stuff somewhere, don't tell me you can have mass effect toothbrushes, travel to another galaxy and still need to wash all you stuff. It's also very useful when you aren't sure how the underwear conditions will develop in that new galaxy. Also, a song I just happened to remember for some reason Edit: yep, it's probably gonna be layers. He must have his sources with all that influence he gathered.
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Post by starlord on Jun 23, 2017 4:53:39 GMT
Underwear discourse?! God, this thread is too funny LOL Ugh, I hope they bring about a Reyes Patch. You should see the comments on one of Michael Gamble's tweets about a patch. Nothing but Reyes... BTW! Here is the sneak peek, it might be rough grammatically, but I'm too hype about it not to share it with you guys! Reyes stepped out of the bathroom and headed toward Keema. However, upon seeing the sight before him, he stopped as if he was paralyzed by it.
All of the screens in the cockpit where compromised and playing a video stream in real time.
Reyes’s breathing increased as he walked closer. Who could possibly have the technological know how to pull of such a feat?
When he saw Keema, and her face twisted into undeniable terror, he felt his stomach churn.
The camera was right in front of Keema’s family home. Reyes could see Keema’s relatives through the windows while they prepared for dinner. He could see their lips move as they spoke almost each other, hugging and clamoring together affectionately as they waited for their meals.
The camera then panned to the right where a masked person, likely a human male, sat in a crouched position. In his hand was an assault rifle, primed and ready to fire.
A heavily digitized voice suddenly boomed, starling Reyes: “Keema, you seem to have stuck your neck out for Kadara’s boogeyman. Have you ever realized that such a thing has real world consequences for you?” “Oh God…” Keema murmured to herself as the camera panned back to the home: her niece had stepped barefooted out onto the grass. She was picking up the toys that were strewn between the tall emerald blades. In the eery silence, you could hear her singing to herself as she picked up a plushie and a model of a Resistance rifle.
“What do you want?!,” Keema near whispered: her voice trembling, “Money? Protection?”
A laugh: “confirmation… and time for us to hack.”
Suddenly, the screen displayed Reyes, Keema, and the cockpit crew.
“Well, well. We thought it couldn’t be true. Reyes Vidal: The Charlatan. You really have everyone fooled don’t you?” The automated voice said.
Reyes spoke deeply and harshly: “You have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m just-“
The voice cut him off: “Silence. We know have all of the evidence we need. Now, the puppeteer becomes the puppet.”
The camera went back to Keema’s family. The masked man carefully stood up and pointed it right at Keema’s niece.
“Melva, no!” Keema shrieked.
“Girl, you move a muscle and you’re dead!” The man roared as he charged toward her, he grabbed her by the arm so harshly, her model gun went flying across the yard.
The camera now followed them as they marched toward the front door. Instead of Melva’s song, you could hear her muffled sobs. The door automatically opened and the house exploded into chaos. The cockpit heard the man ordering everyone to the floor, before the audio was cut out.
“You have a choice, Reyes. Either you reveal your true identity personally and disband The Collective, or the Dohrgun family gets wiped out. This house will be rigged to explode, so if you, your men, or that idiot girlfriend of yours try anything funny: they’ll die and you’ll still be outed. 48 hours counting down… now! Make your choice.” The voice explained.
The video feed ended as Keema fell to floor. Her grief and fear spilling out.
She continued to speak quitely, almost as though she was speaking only to herself: “please, please tell me you have a plan.”
Reyes’s jaw was wound as tightly as a tourniquet. His hands were clenched into fists and his mind was racing with strategy to the point where even his breathing was methodical. He took a deep breath: “they just fucked with the wrong people.”
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Zitrus
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 202 Likes: 426
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Zitrus
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zitrus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Zitrus on Jun 23, 2017 13:47:40 GMT
Those are the important questions. I go with 2-4 weeks of underwear as the limit. The exiles either took some with them from the Nexus or made it, 3d printer like. How do they even wash themselves with clean water in short supply? No long showers then. At least one NPC says Ryder doesn't look as dirty as the others. I thought maybe alcohol is the solution here and they got plenty of that. I actually looked this up and vodka is good against smells in clothes. And I found a concept for a waterless washing machine which cleans with dry ice. Since this is the far future, something like this must exist (oh with mass effect fields maybe). Or the clothes just stay clean with an anti-dirt coating, this would solve everything and they wouldn't need much. Didn't see a washer in the Tempest either. Lol. Still, it must be weird to get to the point in life where you are considering what underwear you are going to pack on your trip to another galaxy They even said somewhere there was plenty of alcohol on Kadara, so... vodka showers? And 3d printed underwear, coming from a single printer snatched by some daring exile on the way out of the Nexus? Never a dull moment on that planet, is there? But I agree, there should be at least some anti-dirt stuff somewhere, don't tell me you can have mass effect toothbrushes, travel to another galaxy and still need to wash all you stuff. It's also very useful when you aren't sure how the underwear conditions will develop in that new galaxy. Also, a song I just happened to remember for some reason Edit: yep, it's probably gonna be layers. He must have his sources with all that influence he gathered. Hehe . Omni-tools can manufacture little things, they should suffice for underwear. I hope they don't shower in alcohol, maybe use it to clean the water a bit, I don't know. It could be used as a detergent but I like the futuristic laundry machines more. Underwear discourse?! God, this thread is too funny LOL Ugh, I hope they bring about a Reyes Patch. You should see the comments on one of Michael Gamble's tweets about a patch. Nothing but Reyes... BTW! Here is the sneak peek, it might be rough grammatically, but I'm too hype about it not to share it with you guys! Does this question not play an important part in your story? Oh a thriller. I like it so far.
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