Reyes Vidal - No longer A Mystery (Official Thread)

Googled the quote, this is the first answer.
"I'm sorry. I like the quote but I disagree with the concept. Honor is an ideal of the living. Of course the dead don't care, but how you get dead (or how you lived) matters."
www.reddit.com/r/QuotesPorn/comments/2qqnhs/stand_amongst_the_ashes_of_a_trillion_dead_souls/?st=j4lyiye2&sh=0f868937
It's all in our heads, after all, and nowhere else.

Duels are the dumbest goddamn thing. I don't understand why honor or absence of it is presented as a crucial element in this argument. A duel in and of itself is not an honorable thing in any post-Enlightenment sense, any more than some other “honor” prefixed thing, such as honor killing. There’s a reason that authorities (in Europe at least) have periodically outlawed duels since medieval times– due to them being the dumbest goddamn way to solve disputes.

Sloane likes to put heads on spikes and sees “an honorable” fight to death as an acceptable way to decide upon a ruler. This is her personal rule set, very different from what the Initiative (or any modern society) upholds. She agrees readily when Reyes suggests a duel, but as we know the clou here is Reyes not being serious at all. He’s operating on an altogether different set of societal rules, where a clean assassination to prevent a large scale turf war is the best cause of action. He doesn’t consider himself beholden to honor the duel despite instigating it, because he doesn’t even recognize this sort of foolishness as an actual thing.

He is making mockery of the very concept of an “honorable” duel and along with it, this entire social rule set that Sloane is using. This is punctuated by the finger gun “bang!” Sloane’s death is a farce, not too far removed from well-known sardonic representations of duels, like Checkhov’s or de Maupassant’s stories. This is also an expression of Reyes’ practicality and the lack of “hatred” that the Collective advertises itself as being free of. It signals to the Pathfinder that Reyes is ready to negotiate from practical grounds, not from any supposed blood feud between the Initiative and the exiles that Sloane based everything on. (This is important, because representing the AI the Pathfinder isn't supposed to share Sloane's archaic rule set either.)

Obligatory: Apart from all this yes, Reyes is dishonorable due to being a thief, a murderer and other bad, bad things etc. etc. and the Collective’s methods bring about different problems and potential threats. I just wanted to tell, on this day, how much I think that duels are goddamn dumb.


Is this one of the Nexus news reports? Only ones I’ve seen (Reyes winning) is that Sloane’s dead and ”the Collective seized power”, and another about a mining colony established after “a fragile peace” was negotiated between R. and “exile leadership”. It’s bad enough that Ryder babbled to Tann and others, if the news are reporting it as well, Reyes is going to be pissed.

I believe that it started due to me daring to suggest Sloane has that exact set of rules (oh, horrible amoral me, trying to see all sides) and then went somewhere very wrong. Otherwise, hell yes. That's all the point there is to it Reyes-wise.
However, if Reyes truly were just practical, he would have spared everyone the farce an shot Kelly in the face the moment she walked in. Whatever else is uncalled for, and comes out kind of.. I don't know, low, when all you're trying to do is depose a political rival. That's the kind of thing you (perhaps justly) do out of spite, to someone who killed you entire family or had you bound and gagged, shot you in the head and then left you to rot in a shallow grave. So is he true to his ways, then, taking action free of grudge or not?

Agreed. In the end, it seems it was set up the way it was so Ryder can choose whether or not to act to stop Reyes. I choose not to (except just once).

That would be amazing if they included that, I can just picture it in my mind. I have a few in bed pictures, but sadly not like this, with the room and all.

Let's see, Reyes in the morning then (it's harmless, just large). And get well!



The grudge I guess is meant in relation to not acting out of hate as the recruiter claims. I don't think he gets her killed like this because he hates her.
It's safer, more controlled to let it play out like this. With everyone in the cave it is a closed environment. Snipe her and the others, if she had brought her own people. If they tried to run, he has his shuttle nearby to intercept them. Also, I agree, he likes to put on a bit of a show and I can imagine he wanted her to know that it was him who outplayed her before she died.

And yes, the scene has to be in a certain way to provide a choice. My newly started Scott will take that interrupt, not sure about the shot in the back, yet.

Yeah, the duel is constructed in a clever way, disguising the player choice that otherwise could easily come across as dull or rote, just choosing which NPC is cooler. Outside divergent paths for both sides (not a typical BW thing), it was just about the best way to go about. There are more elements than just which party the player likes more, which seem to have had a surprising amount of influence in people’s choices. I see this as an improvement on Virmire type choices.

It also made the NPCs seem more independent of the PC. The Angarans were woefully lacking in this aspect, so it’s good Sloane and Reyes avoided that fate.

Well, all the reasons for holding the duel that I listed were calculating rather than personal, as supported by Reyes’ own words during the scene. The farcical element to the duel is thematic, and as Reyes would say, a bonus. This of course doesn’t mean he doesn’t have emotions or no personal wish to see his biggest enemy dead. I think Reyes would’ve found Sloane’s death funny regardless of she died. He also was glad ("a happy ending") when the Roekaar got killed.

The Salarian recruiter at Kralla’s tells us that the Collective doesn’t hate the Initiative and might be willing to work with them dispassionately. Reyes confirms this by demonstrating that he’s down with real politik, by taking Sloane down in a clinical manner. He doesn't engage Sloane on her terms, but mocks her commitment to her personal code. This matters to the AI and the Pathfinder. The important thing is that Reyes will change the course w/r/t the outlaw behavior (discarding the Sloane rule set) and potentially even their sentiment towards the Nexus.

More importantly, I still see those logical reasons for arranging a duel, but not much proof of grudge-fueled reasoning on Reyes' side. These two characters are contrasted in the game's text. Sloane is coming mad at Reyes because her beau got severely beaten up (a cold, cold move by Reyes) -  Reyes is waiting calm and collected. He seems unfazed even when Ryder (a potential lover) appears at the cave at Sloane's side - this would be an extremely worrying sign to him!

They're not b&w characters, Sloane and Reyes, but they're bit of archetypal at least.

There are several bigger assholes in the game, but if you consider all the Collective activities in the game, there’s absolutely no reason to see Reyes as something else than a dangerous, violent, greedy and ruthless man. And Ryder has a terrible taste if they fall for him.

I’m assuming the Charlatan’s Smile is same the Glasgow Smile? Fucked up. I think being glad and relieved that the biggest threat to his life is gone is the least problematic thing Reyes has going on.

But this is hardly news. You’ve seen the finger gun “bang!” elation yourself, contrasted with his solemnity after Zia’s regrettable death. Reyes mocking Sloane's corpse is right there, even if everything else I've written is feverish nonsense (a possibility ).

In bed pics you say? Please, go on...

Also thanks, this has been a day of hell. :DD: That pic helped me cheer up.

This is a good point, and sounds true to Reyes. Not an enormous hatred, but just that much of it. A desire to showcase his cleverness. Maybe also bravado due to Ryder's unexpected presence? It must have made him at least a bit unsure, despite not showing it.

Huh, I remember having that convo with Addison too, I don't know how it slipped my mind.

Yasssss. That’s the good stuff. ^.^ Thank you again.

Good catch. The “reconciliation” should be accompanied by Sparatus’ finger quotes, then lol.

I’ve wondered previously if there was a mix-up between the Nexus writers and the Kadara writers about who’s in the know. Addison knowing his identity seems extremely something Reyes wouldn’t be too keen on. This level of detail in dialogues seems to put that theory into the ground, however. I guess Ryder can’t help being a tool an upstanding civil servant that diligently reports on their mission to the superiors as per regulations. 

But then again, this works as another show of willingness to cooperate by Reyes, offering to share such vulnerable information. In fact, Addison is now caught up in upholding this secret too, and it would reflect badly on her (and the Pathfinder) should Reyes be unmasked… Ooh, guess this might be a clever move by Reyes after all... Risky, but clever.


That’s cool, but why the “but”? Assholiness isn’t related to whether or not he’s pragmatic, and I haven’t argued against you considering him an asshole. In fact, my direct reply was an encouragement. I wrote that yes, Reyes is dangerous etc. and he’s gone and appropriated the Glasgow Smile for his own under his fake persona’s name. I can’t see any issues here between our points. :smiles:

Chrissakes. The Collective is willing to work sans hatred with the AI. Under Reyes, the formerly antagonistic outlaws can enter into less hostile relationship with the Nexus. Sloane’s anger-filled rhetoric passes away along with its heads-on-spikes creator and makes room for a more pragmatic, calculated approach. The duel and the lead-up to it was also calculated (“death by thousands cuts”), while also offering a chance for Reyes to make fun of Sloane and her stubbornness (the bonus of getting some amusement and self-validation out of a primarily practical arrangement).

And again, I don’t see a monumental grudge or passionate hatred as a necessity for Reyes to mock Sloane. Obviously he dislikes her, maybe he even hates her*, but as I wrote that's not the point - giving up on duels and honor killings doesn't mean all your emotions become milquetoast forever. The character here is multifaceted and not wedded to a single state of mind. The priority is to attain control of the Port and to kill Sloane; when Reyes toys with her, it’s not the crux of the affair, it’s over soon, and Reyes’ mind is already on the next item on the agenda: fixing an alliance with the Pathfinder.

(*Reyes sounds the angriest when he tells Zia to leave Ryder out of their argument - he sounds derisive when discussing Sloane, not mad or angry [contrast with Sloane discussing the Charlatan])

The Collective’s practical, non-showy approach do not mean that Reyes can’t be glad that a bitch is dead or feel contemptuous at her way of seeing the world, which he considers outdated (as does a Ryder that sides with him, alongside with the entirety of the Initiative, who are now involved, also out of practical concerns).

If you still don’t see my meaning but nonetheless want to continue, send me a PM I don’t want to bog down the board with repeating this same thing forever, please.

She dies in seconds, from a single shot. Other MEA deaths often feature burning alive while shrieking panicked for long, long seconds, being thrust into air like a ragdoll, or being electrocuted so that you’re forced still in a rictus pose for an easier headshot. All of which methods are cheerfully employed by the biggest Good Guy/Gal in the cluster and their merry, one-liner quipping band.

Okay. I wouldn’t compare a gang leader getting one-shotted by a gang rival to an entire family (children, spouse, maybe parents, I assume) getting killed. Nor do I see the relevance, really, so let’s leave it at that.

Archon. Don’t let the face proportioned like baby animal’s fool you.

I meant that Reyes found it regrettable, probably. He says something akin to her being a piece of work but it still not feeling right, and then he stays behind to attend to her corpse once Ryder leaves. When he and Ryder kill the Roekaar, he is satisfied and amused. When Sloane dies, he is smug and glad. When his forced to fight Zia in an ultimately lethal battle, his first regret is not getting credits and second (though not very big) is Zia dying like that. It wasn’t his aim, unlike those other deaths, so it's bit of a pity. An interesting way to gain insight of his character via such glimpses.

Both Reyes and Ryder acknowledge that the latter has terrible taste in men if she/he falls for Reyes.

You may very well be right about the underling, I frankly can’t remember any differences between the various orb-wielding lieutenants. Archon’s the one ordering all the space Mengele tests in the first place, though. Um, the Voeld AI is a gaping ass. PB’s ex easily out-assholeries Reyes. Sloane. Spencer’s an incompetent, racist asshole. A faint recollection of some asshole Angara is haunting me, but I can’t quite catch it.


For Zia, she’s the only one Reyes used to be friends with, those others are just straight up enemies. Even so he’s still a bit cold, thinking of money first and foremost.

Zia also has lovely voice IMO. She and Reyes must have had hot conversations.


I just remembered another building block in the fun “kings and queens” theme that Kadara has; in a Nomad banter, Ryder looks at the Port high up in the distance and remarks that Sloane must be playing “king of the hill” and then Cora or someone says “You must mean queen of the hill”.



The Port indeed looks a bit like a white fairy tale castle in the clouds if you count the hill it sits on, too. A contrast with the crime planet theme. Reyes’ name has got to be deliberate.

Haha, yes. And Ryder's personal touch is required here.


It could be a communcation error. It happened before. When I think about the codex for the Ryder twins stating born on the Citadel and then they tell Jaal they were born on Earth.

But I go with she knows.

Ryder, sitting in the cabin, writing detailed reports, the unglamorous part of the job^^. Maybe SAM relays the mission information automatically or they just look at the logs. He's always online, yet not everything is public knowledge (like benefactor, mum Ryder). Cora is the only one bothering to shut the logs down one time. They have to communicate this a bit better, who knows what.


Yeah, really a leap of faith for him. I have this concern that if they let him come back no matter what happened, they'll make it easier for the writers and expose him anyway, somehow.

Yes, this. I shall endeavour to make it clearer in the future.


If Reyes is in charge, Ryder answers something like "but the real king sits beneath the mountain."


Yes, BW love to do this. Also Tartarus and his callsign Anubis.

Reyes, it's your lucky day.

Yes, Zia is supposed to be French I'd say. With Cordier as a name. She looks pretty unique for such a minor character.

Lol, the non-existent Kadara tourist board could use this view as a big attraction.

Haa, the King under the Mountain. This makes me think of classic fairy tales where the son of a Mountain King or a Crown Prince from underneath the Ocean comes and entices some simple shepherdess to follow them to their kingdom, where they eat a food and are trapped ~forever~. I’m now imagining Reyes drawn in John Bayer’s style. :heh:




There’s also the Remnant tower for added contrast, but looking from a distance, it’s actually rather small and subdued next to the high reaching Port. Maybe appropriate, since the vault on Kadara is boring and bad, and nobody mentions that the water is potable after fixing it.

Reyes seriously should have a comment about that. He can finally take a long luxurious baths, all thanks to Ryder. Show some gratitude, man.

I was sure they were born on Earth (Argentina?) and then moved very early to the Citadel. I think Scott mentions roughhousing with Turian kids or something? I haven’t really read the Codex. I was disappointed in how meaningless the “Ryder’s personal life” section ended up being.

Well Reyes has standards, you know. (Except when it comes to my custom Ryders.)

lol poor guy...