KirkyX
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 13:49:54 GMT
It won't be like this, and I'm not sure I'd like it given the technology to build was too high for the MW species, but the way only a part of the Nexus is built with the rest delayed for when they're in Andromeda, Expecially the ring part, makes no me think they want to build a type of relay connected to the MW.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 13:52:55 GMT
But this just smacks of a reboot rather than a new chapter. It's a reboot in all but name. I honestly don't care how we should define the game, but the Nexus being similar to the Citadel isn't a sign of a reboot for me. It makes sense in-game they'd built it wit the Citadel design in mind, given the similar role of the two. That said, I'd have preferred if they designed it a bit differently from the Citadel.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 3, 2016 13:57:10 GMT
This is only tangentially related to the thread, but I just wanna say, as a connoisseur of such things - or, at least, someone who has a folder named 'Warp Speed' filled with gifs of just that - BioWare's cool-looking FTL game has been on top-form with Andromeda thus-far. Well done with the gifs. Looking at those scenes, I thought about when Shepard was holding the datapad after the suicide mission. It would've been nice if it showed the reapers traveling ftl, and then shown coming out of ftl. While the scene shows the number of reapers, it slowly moves to the left or right showing that they're on the edge of the Milky Way
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Post by themikefest on Dec 3, 2016 13:59:39 GMT
I honestly don't care how we should define the game, but the Nexus being similar to the Citadel isn't a sign of a reboot for me. It makes sense in-game they'd built it wit the Citadel design in mind, given the similar role of the two. That said, I'd have preferred if they designed it a bit differently from the Citadel. I'm curious to hear why they chose the look for the Nexus and the ships. I wonder if Jien will give an explanation in the game.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 14:01:08 GMT
I honestly don't care how we should define the game, but the Nexus being similar to the Citadel isn't a sign of a reboot for me. It makes sense in-game they'd built it wit the Citadel design in mind, given the similar role of the two. That said, I'd have preferred if they designed it a bit differently from the Citadel. I'm curious to hear why they chose the look for the Nexus and the ships. I wonder if Jien will give an explanation in the game. As for the Nexus, it's an obvious nod to the Citadel, both the esterior and interior. I don't have any idea for the Arks, but I agree that it'd be nice if they explained this in-game, either by codex enteries or a person.
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bshep
N5
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 20:19:31 GMT
The arks design also resemble the Citadel a bit.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Dec 3, 2016 20:24:07 GMT
Holy shit, this tread is basically the same group of posters arguing in circles!
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 3, 2016 20:28:24 GMT
I honestly don't care how we should define the game, but the Nexus being similar to the Citadel isn't a sign of a reboot for me. It makes sense in-game they'd built it wit the Citadel design in mind, given the similar role of the two. That said, I'd have preferred if they designed it a bit differently from the Citadel. I'm curious to hear why they chose the look for the Nexus and the ships. I wonder if Jien will give an explanation in the game. I'm curious to hear why they chose the look for the Nexus and the ships. I wonder if Jien will give an explanation in the game. As for the Nexus, it's an obvious nod to the Citadel, both the esterior and interior. I don't have any idea for the Arks, but I agree that it'd be nice if they explained this in-game, either by codex enteries or a person. The arks design also resemble the Citadel a bit. I was thinking the same, while admiring those slick gifs. (Thanks, KirkyX !) Why do I have a feeling it will be Avina that explains the Arks' arms to me? I'd rather hear it from Nakmor Kesh.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 20:32:11 GMT
Why do I have a feeling it will be Avina that explains the Arks' arms to me? I'd rather hear it from Nakmor Kesh. Which arms are you referring to? If it is the four outer ones, those are the hydrogen scoops for the ODSY Drive. If you mean the two interior ones, that's where everything is stored and everyone is.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 3, 2016 20:36:34 GMT
Why do I have a feeling it will be Avina that explains the Arks' arms to me? I'd rather hear it from Nakmor Kesh. Which arms are you referring to? If it is the four outer ones, those are the hydrogen scoops for the ODSY Drive. If you mean the two interior ones, that's where everything is stored and everyone is. Likely they are the scoops, but I'd like confirmation from Avina or Nakmor. I can't resist listening to those type of conversations, even when I've heard them 100 times, already.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 3, 2016 21:14:09 GMT
Why is staying on topic so hard, for you guys? I'm sure you could go and have this discussion that has nothing to do with ARKS AND NEXUS BRIEFING somewhere else, like in the ME3 story and lore section. Now there's a ten page rant about what reapers/collectors/who ever did/did not/should have done, and very little discussion on the topic stated. Every conversation has it's place, so take it there where it's proper place is. Or take it to PM, please. I do agree that we did veer somewhat off-topic, but it's rather to be expected when we don't have all that much information to speculate on. Like the tide coming in and the setting of the sun, people on forums can be counted on to meander or go on tangents from time to time. Nevertheless, my apologies in this regard.
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Thrombin
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 4, 2016 0:06:13 GMT
There is something that's been brought up a couple of times in the thread that I would like to address. We keep saying that the Reapers have a mandate to annihilate and preserve all organic life, so of course they would care about potential arks leaving the Milky Way. There is a potential explanation for this, and it mainly has to do with logic and programming. Just because the Catalyst says that the Reapers mandate is to preserve all organic life does not necessarily mean this extends beyond the Milky Way. What do we know about the Reaper's exact programming? We know they are part synthetic. For all we know, deep down in their code, they might have limitations as to where they can go. Rather than get caught up galaxy-hoping and eliminating all organic life, wouldn't it make more sense to simply camp at the Milky Way and do a REALLY good job there? This is my thinking too. We don't know the specific parameters that the Leviathans gave their AI to find a way to preserve organic life but given that they haven't branched out to try reaping other Galaxies it seems demonstrably clear that they are only intent on preserving the Milky Way and don't care about any technology or civilizations that may be developing elsewhere. They destroy Milky Way civilizations before they can develop the tech that would produce synthetics capable of destroying all organic life in the Milky Way. If people want to leave the Milky Way then let them go. They're no longer part of the problem! Even if they felt the need to destroy the initiative there's no hurry. They can travel faster than the AI can. They can catch them up and wipe them out as part of the general cleansing if that's what they want. I really don't see the AI as being remotely worth diverting resources towards sabotaging.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 4, 2016 2:48:04 GMT
This is my thinking too. We don't know the specific parameters that the Leviathans gave their AI to find a way to preserve organic life but given that they haven't branched out to try reaping other Galaxies That's a possibility but by no means a certainty. Bioware hasn't provided any data about whether or not the AI has spread to other galaxies - anyone who's seen a dev quote or whatever to this point please feel free to jump in if you want to do so. In fact, given the near-instantaneous travel they've developed, I'd say the likelihood is high they've expanded. Why wouldn't they? They're basically immortal, powerful and a larger data-set would only be more beneficial to their experiment, not less.
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chris2365
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Post by chris2365 on Dec 4, 2016 6:12:23 GMT
This is my thinking too. We don't know the specific parameters that the Leviathans gave their AI to find a way to preserve organic life but given that they haven't branched out to try reaping other Galaxies That's a possibility but by no means a certainty. Bioware hasn't provided any data about whether or not the AI has spread to other galaxies - anyone who's seen a dev quote or whatever to this point please feel free to jump in if you want to do so. In fact, given the near-instantaneous travel they've developed, I'd say the likelihood is high they've expanded. Why wouldn't they? They're basically immortal, powerful and a larger data-set would only be more beneficial to their experiment, not less. Though you are right to say that we don't know the exact programming of the Reapers, there's also an argument that goes the other way that says their programming should in fact limit them to just the Milky Way. Thrombin only quoted part of my text, and I think the rest of it basically explains why it would make sense for the Reapers to stay close to the Milky Way: "There is something that's been brought up a couple of times in the thread that I would like to address. We keep saying that the Reapers have a mandate to annihilate and preserve all organic life, so of course they would care about potential arks leaving the Milky Way.
There is a potential explanation for this, and it mainly has to do with logic and programming.
Just because the Catalyst says that the Reapers mandate is to preserve all organic life does not necessarily mean this extends beyond the Milky Way. What do we know about the Reaper's exact programming? We know they are part synthetic. For all we know, deep down in their code, they might have limitations as to where they can go. Rather than get caught up galaxy-hoping and eliminating all organic life, wouldn't it make more sense to simply camp at the Milky Way and do a REALLY good job there? They know the exact conditions of the Milky Way, they have the relays set up, and they can scout out the next generation of races so they know what to expect. When the first generation of Reapers were made, I doubt they were coded with specific instructions for the whole universe, because who knows what happens there? These AI problems are a Milky Way problem as far we are concerned. So let's make the Reapers keep reaping until Milky Way species find a new solution.
In the Milky Way, they have all the advantages: it makes for a perfect plan. It makes no sense for the Reapers to stretch themselves thin and go to different galaxies for every speck of organic life, where they might face unknowns and enemies perhaps even more powerful than the Reapers themselves. If they go hunt the arks after they leave (hypothetically), and run into say, the Remnant, who are powerful enough to wipe out the Reapers, then the Reapers are toast. They can no longer fill their mandate if they are gone. Their self preservation is a factor too, because if they go galaxy hoping and suffer losses, they cannot recover from those losses in other galaxies. They must wait until they return to the Milky Way, and even then, only a few Sovereign class Reapers are made per cycle.
Basically, Reapers have to prioritize the Milky Way annihilation, because that is a certainty. An ark going to brand new galaxy represents too many unknowns for them. The probability of that ark coming back is tiny compared to the certainty of the 50 000 year AI cycle in the Milky Way. That's why they stick to the Milky Way. The Reapers love being meticulous and planning. Adapting to new situations, like we saw in ME3, is clearly not their forte. So why go to Andromeda if just one single disrupted Keeper signal throws them off their game? Just stick to the Milky Way and solve the AI problem there."
The short version is that as far we know, this AI problem is Milky Way specific, so why would they go elsewhere? Also, in the Milky Way, they hold all the advantages and have it all planned out. Why start going to other galaxies where they could run into trouble (i.e: face something more powerful then even the Reapers) and compromise their main objective, which is to solve the Milky Way AI problem? Basically, the certainty of the Milky Way cycle happening every 50 000 years is far more important than hunting other galaxies for AI which a) Might not exist and present a draining and unpredictable challenge to them which could weaken them. That's why it make sense to limit themselves to just the Milky Way.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 4, 2016 6:28:05 GMT
That's a possibility but by no means a certainty. Bioware hasn't provided any data about whether or not the AI has spread to other galaxies - anyone who's seen a dev quote or whatever to this point please feel free to jump in if you want to do so. In fact, given the near-instantaneous travel they've developed, I'd say the likelihood is high they've expanded. Why wouldn't they? They're basically immortal, powerful and a larger data-set would only be more beneficial to their experiment, not less. Though you are right to say that we don't know the exact programming of the Reapers, there's also an argument that goes the other way that says their programming should in fact limit them to just the Milky Way. Thrombin only quoted part of my text, and I think the rest of it basically explains why it would make sense for the Reapers to stay close to the Milky Way: "There is something that's been brought up a couple of times in the thread that I would like to address. We keep saying that the Reapers have a mandate to annihilate and preserve all organic life, so of course they would care about potential arks leaving the Milky Way.
There is a potential explanation for this, and it mainly has to do with logic and programming.
Just because the Catalyst says that the Reapers mandate is to preserve all organic life does not necessarily mean this extends beyond the Milky Way. What do we know about the Reaper's exact programming? We know they are part synthetic. For all we know, deep down in their code, they might have limitations as to where they can go. Rather than get caught up galaxy-hoping and eliminating all organic life, wouldn't it make more sense to simply camp at the Milky Way and do a REALLY good job there? They know the exact conditions of the Milky Way, they have the relays set up, and they can scout out the next generation of races so they know what to expect. When the first generation of Reapers were made, I doubt they were coded with specific instructions for the whole universe, because who knows what happens there? These AI problems are a Milky Way problem as far we are concerned. So let's make the Reapers keep reaping until Milky Way species find a new solution.
In the Milky Way, they have all the advantages: it makes for a perfect plan. It makes no sense for the Reapers to stretch themselves thin and go to different galaxies for every speck of organic life, where they might face unknowns and enemies perhaps even more powerful than the Reapers themselves. If they go hunt the arks after they leave (hypothetically), and run into say, the Remnant, who are powerful enough to wipe out the Reapers, then the Reapers are toast. They can no longer fill their mandate if they are gone. Their self preservation is a factor too, because if they go galaxy hoping and suffer losses, they cannot recover from those losses in other galaxies. They must wait until they return to the Milky Way, and even then, only a few Sovereign class Reapers are made per cycle.
Basically, Reapers have to prioritize the Milky Way annihilation, because that is a certainty. An ark going to brand new galaxy represents too many unknowns for them. The probability of that ark coming back is tiny compared to the certainty of the 50 000 year AI cycle in the Milky Way. That's why they stick to the Milky Way. The Reapers love being meticulous and planning. Adapting to new situations, like we saw in ME3, is clearly not their forte. So why go to Andromeda if just one single disrupted Keeper signal throws them off their game? Just stick to the Milky Way and solve the AI problem there."
The short version is that as far we know, this AI problem is Milky Way specific, so why would they go elsewhere? Also, in the Milky Way, they hold all the advantages and have it all planned out. Why start going to other galaxies where they could run into trouble (i.e: face something more powerful then even the Reapers) and compromise their main objective, which is to solve the Milky Way AI problem? Basically, the certainty of the Milky Way cycle happening every 50 000 years is far more important than hunting other galaxies for AI which a) Might not exist and present a draining and unpredictable challenge to them which could weaken them. That's why it make sense to limit themselves to just the Milky Way. There's no reason for anyone to believe, including the Reapers, that the AI problem would be in any way Milky Way specific. The laws of the universe are universal. Running into trouble? Have you met a Reaper? They're not timid and they're supremely arrogant. By the time we defeat them, they could have easily have set up more mouse traps in other galaxies. It only takes us 600 years to get to Andromeda. There's no indication, ever, that the Reapers are being stretched thin. If anything, they have overwhelming power in the Milky Way. Sending assets to other galaxies is entirely plausible. Adapting to new situations, as we saw in ME3, is exactly their forte. It cannot be stated enough, it would seem, that the Reapers won in ME3. The only way they lost was the deus ex machina at the end. The Reapers are a life form. There's no reason to believe that if humanity and other life forms are interested in exploring and expanding in other galaxies, that the Reapers would not also be just as interested. It would fit their character and it would fit their mission and it would give them more opportunities to reproduce. Also, stated again, their technological superiority makes them ideally suited for exploring the universe. They can easily survive the harsh conditions of both outside and inside a galaxy.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 4, 2016 7:01:20 GMT
While I'm not denying that the Catalyst might have been able to expand it's influence to other galaxies in it's quest to solve the problem of organic/synthetic conflicts, that doesn't mean the Reapers might exist elsewhere.
The Reaper solution might be limited solely to the Milky Way experiment it was conducting, while the Andromeda galaxy may be operating under a different scenario with completely different test conditions in mind.
For all we know, the Catalyst may have left Andromeda alone in order to keep it as a control group, to see what happens when it doesn't interfere with the organic/synthetic conflict. Andromeda may be part of the reason it's so steadfast in it's belief the Reapers were necessary.
(And we seem to be getting off-topic again)
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Dec 4, 2016 7:46:22 GMT
This is only tangentially related to the thread, but I just wanna say, as a connoisseur of such things - or, at least, someone who has a folder named 'Warp Speed' filled with gifs of just that - BioWare's cool-looking FTL game has been on top-form with Andromeda thus-far. Quoting this so maybe people take the hint...
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Post by commandercryptarch on Dec 4, 2016 10:57:28 GMT
When I heard Avina my eyes kinda started watering.I got this immense sense of nostalgia, it just hit the right "strings" for me.Not gonna lie. So far I have liked most of what I have seen and I really like the briefing videos.I know the lore will be warped to shreds and it saddens me, what also saddens me is that we never got to see and will never get to see the Mass Effect trilogy with today's graphics and tech. How I 'd love to have had a Mass Effect 1 remake and a remaster of 2 and 3.Mass Effect was such a great game but due to limitations of the time ,it lacked a lot.Seeing this briefing video kept makinf me think how awesome Mass Effect 1 cpuld have been if it was remade today. Andromeda is looking damn fine but still, I feel disconnected for some reason.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 4, 2016 12:17:09 GMT
This is my thinking too. We don't know the specific parameters that the Leviathans gave their AI to find a way to preserve organic life but given that they haven't branched out to try reaping other Galaxies That's a possibility but by no means a certainty. Bioware hasn't provided any data about whether or not the AI has spread to other galaxies - anyone who's seen a dev quote or whatever to this point please feel free to jump in if you want to do so. In fact, given the near-instantaneous travel they've developed, I'd say the likelihood is high they've expanded. Why wouldn't they? They're basically immortal, powerful and a larger data-set would only be more beneficial to their experiment, not less. Possibility is all we need to make the fact that the Reapers didn't target the AI perfectly acceptable. Why go out of your way to come up with other possibilities which conflict with the premise of MEA when we've a perfectly good one which explains it? In any case Reapers aren't using the MW as an experiment. They are doing what they are doing to fulfill their purpose of preserving organic life. If their imperative is to preserve all life in the Universe the method they are using would be impossible. Adding just one more Galaxy would make no difference whatsoever. There are too many galaxies spread too far apart for even the Reapers to have a hope of achieving that objective. If saving the entire Universe was their objective no solution would have worked and they would still be cogitating! The only way the Reaping solution works is if they limit their objective (or the Leviathans already did so) to the Milky Way. Then it can at least work for the Milky Way organics. If that's the case, as soon as anything ceases to affect that objective (i.e. organics leave the Milky Way) they have no reason to care about it.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 4, 2016 12:18:37 GMT
Quoting this so maybe people take the hint... Sorry but I'm new to the thread and I read through quite a few pages of argument itching to have my say. I shall shut up now
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Post by wright1978 on Dec 4, 2016 12:43:54 GMT
Found the briefing interesting.
Only real thing i found odd is that the Nexus leadership is supposedly made up of 2 humans and a krogan. A less human centric leadership would have been better. No Turian, Salarian or Asari just seems unrealistic given their galactic clout.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 13:13:29 GMT
How did we build a small version of the Citadel? All this time I've had some issues, also back in Extended Cut about whether our races can really "build" Mass ... Also reapers came in from one direction, towards the south of the galaxy to Bahak system, if we left from say the west side, we likely would not have run into them, space is vast after all, chances of running even into a massive armada are very very low.And yes all of this is obvisouly massive retcons, there was no mention of an Ark being constructed around the moon in ME1 or ME2. I read on science site some time ago, that the space between planets in the galaxes is SO VAST, that even when Milky Way and Andromeda collide in the distant future, there is next to no chance, that any of the stars or planets of both galaxies will hit one another. So this displays how the chance of running into a cluster of Reapers or anywere near them while on way to Andromeda is basically 0.
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Legenlorn
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Post by Legenlorn on Dec 4, 2016 13:51:59 GMT
Found the briefing interesting. Only real thing i found odd is that the Nexus leadership is supposedly made up of 2 humans and a krogan. A less human centric leadership would have been better. No Turian, Salarian or Asari just seems unrealistic given their galactic clout. Does seem odd. I would pick a turian for the security. Also is it just me or did they take the worst photos of the human leadership people?
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2016 13:53:36 GMT
Found the briefing interesting. Only real thing i found odd is that the Nexus leadership is supposedly made up of 2 humans and a krogan. A less human centric leadership would have been better. No Turian, Salarian or Asari just seems unrealistic given their galactic clout. I don't think those three rapresent all the leaders on the Nexus. And the security leader will likely be a different one since the one in the official site left the station.
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