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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 2, 2016 22:54:55 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2016 22:57:25 GMT
And yeah a the Collector ship attacking any target in Sol would have been suicide, for them.
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Post by bshep on Dec 2, 2016 23:00:45 GMT
Canis Major and several other dwarf galaxies from the Local Group are satellites of the Milky Way.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:02:02 GMT
You mean the same Normandy that was only that powerful because of Reaper upgrades? Well that and plot armor. In every other case, from the beginning of ME2 to Paragon Lost to the various cases told to us by characters or lore, those who faced the Collectors had no shot of beating them in a fight like the one that would occur. Plus you know a surprise attack has its virtues, like the Collectors being half way done by the time the AI can even bring defenses up. Yes, I read the description. And you somehow think that the fleet guarding wouldn't be able to destroy the Collector ship that a single Normandy would send to oblivion later on? That's really, really quite the reach. Collectors ain't Reapers, just so you know. That plot armor of yours is basically something to try and legitimatize your complaint, but it won't work. Nothing about the clash between the two is implausible. You just need to accept the fact that the Collector ship isn't that strong and was easily moved with defense systems in Horizon. There's also that. Could you tell me its purpose? I may have misread it. What fleet? It's a private venture, remember? Private ventures don't have military fleets guarding them. No, I don't. That fleet would be built by the same people who built the Normandy SR1, and we all know how well that worked out. Again, the Normandy SR2 only was able to do it because 1) it's a game and 2) it had upgrades reverse engineered from Reaper tech. It wasn't easily moved. It took several minutes to bring its shields down, and only left because Harbinger got the information he wanted. In Paragon Lost we see a gun built to destroy large ships not even scratch that Black Ark. And again, even if the attack failed in destroying the project there is no way it wouldn't deal enough damage to delay it a couple years, which is more than enough since by then the Reaper armada arrives. What do you mean its purpose? Do you mean the reason it was created or the mission it was originally created for?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:03:00 GMT
Not even that. Astronomers now give that to the Large Magellanic Cloud, which is classified as a disrupted Spiral Galaxy.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 2, 2016 23:04:48 GMT
What would Sovereign do again? Expose himself to a whole armada? And risk his main goal of opening a link to Dark Space by potentially getting itself destroyed? Same thing for the Collectors, which are much weaker than Sovereign. Since when you can't build the Nexus in the ME lore? There's nothing that says you can't. I think you're confusing our reality with a space fantasy's. The whole thing is a wild ride, there's no guarantee of success. The volunteers are aware of that. Anything could happen in Dark Space, they did their best to avoid most scenarios with the knowledge they knew. How on Satan's name it wouldn't be a triumph for humanity? Cerberus wasn't even indoctrinated by now. I see them actually wanting to fund this shizzle. I won't be able to sleep tonight after the triumph statement. Many drinks. I'm beginning to wonder if you even played Mass Effect or read the codex. All Sovereign had to do was kill the planners. Indoctrinated agents or geth would suffice. Or collectors or their agents. All of these were employed throughout all the Mass Effect story. The Normandy was an example of the most advanced technology available. It could not make a 600 year trip to another galaxy due to many technological limitations - most which have already been mentioned in this thread and are also in the Mass Effect codex. Read them. The Citadel and the Mass Relays were advanced technology we didn't understand and could not replicate. Even the Protheans had difficulty doing so, they only managed a small-scale prototype of a mass relay. The Reapers devised this technological mouse trap so that when civilizations started to approach understanding this technology - they would be wiped out roughly every 50000 years. Any attempt to escape this mouse trap - the Nexus - would have been stomped. Cerberus was anti-alien long before any indoctrination. That was their whole shtick... did you not pay attention to them being described in ME1? Or the conversation you could have with Miranda about them being anti-alien? They only approached cooperation with aliens when faced with the Reaper threat. Where were Sovereign indoctrinated agents in ME1? Saren, Benezia and...? You talk as if a single person can actually do something, and as if that someone is easily reachable. Don't say I'm the one who didn't play the games here. Where's that mass indoctrination factory in the lore of ME1? Geth. Right, they were so capable since forever. That's why they didn't dare to attack The Citadel or anything else of that escape before they had a huge ass Reaper in the front. Um... The Nexus is a ship, a big one. Its purpose being similar to the Citadel, but not being an exact copy of the Citadel. The tech behind can be perfectly reachable. It's not like they chopped one of the Citadel's arm and began building from there. Cerberus was anti alien, yes, but they aren't anti human. I think you would know that. Sabotaging the Nexus or Ark would mean losses to all sides, not only Aliens, also stopping this tremendous feat we would accomplish. There's no reason for that to happen. Last time I checked, they saved thr Council as well. There you go your super anti alien nonsense.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 2, 2016 23:07:09 GMT
And yeah a the Collector ship attacking any target in Sol would have been suicide, for them. Exactly. People go to the deepest realms to try and justify the Collectors being capable of competing against a fleet or any crusader. Never forget those ground defenses in Horizon, or the beauty that is the Normandy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:08:16 GMT
Geth. Right, they were so capable since forever. That's why they didn't dare to attack The Citadel or anything else of that escape before they had a huge ass Reaper in the front. Um... The Nexus is a ship, a big one. Its purpose being similar to the Citadel, but not being an exact copy of the Citadel. The tech behind can be perfectly reachable. It's not like they chopped one of the Citadel's arm and began building from there. The Geth didn't attack the Citadel before Sovereign arrived because they had no desire to them. Instead they wanted to remain in isolation and work on how to become one. Sovereign approached them, most disagreed with Sovereign but around 5% did and those became the Heretics who we fight in ME1 and ME2. The issue with the Nexus I have is not so much the technology but more the fact they built something that massive in less than a decade. That is not possible even in the time of Mass Effect.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 2, 2016 23:13:30 GMT
And you somehow think that the fleet guarding wouldn't be able to destroy the Collector ship that a single Normandy would send to oblivion later on? That's really, really quite the reach. Collectors ain't Reapers, just so you know. That plot armor of yours is basically something to try and legitimatize your complaint, but it won't work. Nothing about the clash between the two is implausible. You just need to accept the fact that the Collector ship isn't that strong and was easily moved with defense systems in Horizon. There's also that. Could you tell me its purpose? I may have misread it. What fleet? It's a private venture, remember? Private ventures don't have military fleets guarding them. No, I don't. That fleet would be built by the same people who built the Normandy SR1, and we all know how well that worked out. Again, the Normandy SR2 only was able to do it because 1) it's a game and 2) it had upgrades reverse engineered from Reaper tech. It wasn't easily moved. It took several minutes to bring its shields down, and only left because Harbinger got the information he wanted. In Paragon Lost we see a gun built to destroy large ships not even scratch that Black Ark. And again, even if the attack failed in destroying the project there is no way it wouldn't deal enough damage to delay it a couple years, which is more than enough since by then the Reaper armada arrives. What do you mean its purpose? Do you mean the reason it was created or the mission it was originally created for? Watch the EA play vid. There are Alliance ships stationed close to the Arks. Reapers upgrade or not, they can't go against numbers. That's why they didn't dare before, and that's why they only attacked colonies in the Terminus System. What part of ground defenses you didn't understand? Ground. Defenses. I'm sure a single Alliance ship can be a worthy opponent, imagine more. There's no competition here. Just tell me what is drive's function. That's all I am asking you.
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Post by bshep on Dec 2, 2016 23:13:50 GMT
Geth. Right, they were so capable since forever. That's why they didn't dare to attack The Citadel or anything else of that escape before they had a huge ass Reaper in the front. Um... The Nexus is a ship, a big one. Its purpose being similar to the Citadel, but not being an exact copy of the Citadel. The tech behind can be perfectly reachable. It's not like they chopped one of the Citadel's arm and began building from there. The Geth didn't attack the Citadel before Sovereign arrived because they had no desire to them. Instead they wanted to remain in isolation and work on how to become one. Sovereign approached them, most disagreed with Sovereign but around 5% did and those became the Heretics who we fight in ME1 and ME2. The issue with the Nexus I have is not so much the technology but more the fact they built something that massive in less than a decade. That is not possible even in the time of Mass Effect. Why not? The Crucible was build in about 1 year. The Geth Heretics rebuild and expand a giant quarian space station(20.5 km length) between the events of ME1 and ME2.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2016 23:15:46 GMT
And yeah a the Collector ship attacking any target in Sol would have been suicide, for them. Exactly. People go to the deepest realms to try and justify the Collectors being capable of competing against a fleet or any crusader. Never forget those ground defenses in Horizon, or the beauty that is the Normandy. Not to mention... why would they even bother? If i were the Reapers... and extension the collectors.. i would be quite gleeful the stupid humans were wasting resources on this nonsense instead of preparing for war with us. And plus either attacking Sol with the Collectors or Soverign would likely alert the galaxy to the threat we pose.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 2, 2016 23:17:19 GMT
Canis Major and several other dwarf galaxies from the Local Group are satellites of the Milky Way. Prior to its discover in 2003, it was the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy that held the position of closest galaxy to our own. At 75,000 light years away. This dwarf galaxy, which consists of four globular clusters that measure some 10,000 light-years in diameter, was discovered in 1994. Prior to that, the Large Magellanic Cloud was thought to be our closest neighbor. www.universetoday.com/21914/the-closest-galaxy-to-the-milky-way/There is absolutely no rational reason to travel to Andromeda when there are closer galaxies. They probably used it because they liked the name and it's spiral resemblance to our Milky Way.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:18:04 GMT
The Geth didn't attack the Citadel before Sovereign arrived because they had no desire to them. Instead they wanted to remain in isolation and work on how to become one. Sovereign approached them, most disagreed with Sovereign but around 5% did and those became the Heretics who we fight in ME1 and ME2. The issue with the Nexus I have is not so much the technology but more the fact they built something that massive in less than a decade. That is not possible even in the time of Mass Effect. Why not? The Crucible was build in about 1 year. The Geth Heretics rebuild and expand a giant quarian space station between the events of ME1 and ME2. The Crucible also had complete blueprints available(and even then it's ridiculous that they built it that fast). The Nexus has to start from scratch. Also you are mistaken about the Heretic Station. From the description of it: Once called Haratar by the quarians, this space station was stripped of its useful technology by the fleeing Migrant Fleet when they left the Perseus Veil 300 years ago. Little more than a cold metal superstructure floating in the void, the station was removed from star charts by 2050 CE.
Scans indicate the station was reconstructed and upgraded in a massive effort that must have taken at least ten years, implying that there may have been some geth outside the Veil before their infamous attack on Eden Prime. Needing little but a fuel source, it could have been hidden here for much longer without attracting attention from the barren worlds around Tassrah or the clueless elcor in the Salahiel system.
Heretic Station, as Legion refers to it, is home to a geth data core, capable of broadcasting vast distances through tightbeam projection. Approximately 6.6 million copies of geth software are stored in the station, the majority of which are kept bodiless in servers and downloaded to legged platforms when needed. The station's "population" of legged platforms is approximately 2.4 million.
So it took the Heretics, a workforce of millions that doesn't need food, water, air, sleep, or anything at least a decade to retrofit an already existing space station. If it takes them that long, then unless we have friendly Geth building the Nexus and Arks alongside the other races then there is no way we could do that project.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 2, 2016 23:19:28 GMT
Exactly. People go to the deepest realms to try and justify the Collectors being capable of competing against a fleet or any crusader. Never forget those ground defenses in Horizon, or the beauty that is the Normandy. Not to mention... why would they even bother? If i were the Reapers... and extension the collectors.. i would be quite gleeful the stupid humans were wasting resources on this nonsense instead of preparing for war with us. And plus either attacking Sol with the Collectors or Soverign would likely alert the galaxy to the threat we pose. I never thought about that. You make too much sense. Stop it!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:20:09 GMT
Canis Major and several other dwarf galaxies from the Local Group are satellites of the Milky Way. Prior to its discover in 2003, it was the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy that held the position of closest galaxy to our own. At 75,000 light years away. This dwarf galaxy, which consists of four globular clusters that measure some 10,000 light-years in diameter, was discovered in 1994. Prior to that, the Large Magellanic Cloud was thought to be our closest neighbor. www.universetoday.com/21914/the-closest-galaxy-to-the-milky-way/There is absolutely no rational reason to travel to Andromeda when there are closer galaxies. They probably used it because they liked the name and it's spiral resemblance to our Milky Way. Marketing has to be the reason in my opinion. Everyone knows about Andromeda. Personally if exploration is the driving plot I think LMC would have been better since it is named after a famous explorer and is a lot closer yet still massive so makes more sense in every way compared to Andromeda. Mass Effect: Magellan.
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Post by bshep on Dec 2, 2016 23:25:00 GMT
Canis Major and several other dwarf galaxies from the Local Group are satellites of the Milky Way. Prior to its discover in 2003, it was the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy that held the position of closest galaxy to our own. At 75,000 light years away. This dwarf galaxy, which consists of four globular clusters that measure some 10,000 light-years in diameter, was discovered in 1994. Prior to that, the Large Magellanic Cloud was thought to be our closest neighbor. www.universetoday.com/21914/the-closest-galaxy-to-the-milky-way/There is absolutely no rational reason to travel to Andromeda when there are closer galaxies. They probably used it because they liked the name and it's spiral resemblance to our Milky Way. Like i said, a satellite (that is about 10% of the Milky Way length). We could try asking on twitter(who has it) about this. Why Andromeda instead of some satellite galaxy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:25:30 GMT
What fleet? It's a private venture, remember? Private ventures don't have military fleets guarding them. No, I don't. That fleet would be built by the same people who built the Normandy SR1, and we all know how well that worked out. Again, the Normandy SR2 only was able to do it because 1) it's a game and 2) it had upgrades reverse engineered from Reaper tech. It wasn't easily moved. It took several minutes to bring its shields down, and only left because Harbinger got the information he wanted. In Paragon Lost we see a gun built to destroy large ships not even scratch that Black Ark. And again, even if the attack failed in destroying the project there is no way it wouldn't deal enough damage to delay it a couple years, which is more than enough since by then the Reaper armada arrives. What do you mean its purpose? Do you mean the reason it was created or the mission it was originally created for? Watch the EA play vid. There are Alliance ships stationed close to the Arks. Reapers upgrade or not, they can't go against numbers. That's why they didn't dare before, and that's why they only attacked colonies in the Terminus System. What part of ground defenses you didn't understand? Ground. Defenses. I'm sure a single Alliance ship can be a worthy opponent, imagine more. There's no competition here. Just tell me what is drive's function. That's all I am asking you. You know that first part of my post was a joke, right? Hence the whistling emote. You know the Collectors have multiple ships, right? They didn't dare before because there was no reason. The are Reaper puppets, and Reapers operate on logic so if there isn't a logical reason they won't do it. Having a cycle break your containment however is a logical reason to interfere. Those ground defenses were anti-ship. What part of anti-ship don't you understand? The function of the ODSY drive is to recycle the static build up to power the ship rather than having to discharge it since if you didn't do that it would turn the ship to molten slag and kill everyone and everything aboard.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 2, 2016 23:26:14 GMT
I'm beginning to wonder if you even played Mass Effect or read the codex. All Sovereign had to do was kill the planners. Indoctrinated agents or geth would suffice. Or collectors or their agents. All of these were employed throughout all the Mass Effect story. The Normandy was an example of the most advanced technology available. It could not make a 600 year trip to another galaxy due to many technological limitations - most which have already been mentioned in this thread and are also in the Mass Effect codex. Read them. The Citadel and the Mass Relays were advanced technology we didn't understand and could not replicate. Even the Protheans had difficulty doing so, they only managed a small-scale prototype of a mass relay. The Reapers devised this technological mouse trap so that when civilizations started to approach understanding this technology - they would be wiped out roughly every 50000 years. Any attempt to escape this mouse trap - the Nexus - would have been stomped. Cerberus was anti-alien long before any indoctrination. That was their whole shtick... did you not pay attention to them being described in ME1? Or the conversation you could have with Miranda about them being anti-alien? They only approached cooperation with aliens when faced with the Reaper threat. Where were Sovereign indoctrinated agents in ME1? Saren, Benezia and...? You talk as if a single person can actually do something, and as if that someone is easily reachable. Don't say I'm the one who didn't play the games here. Where's that mass indoctrination factory in the lore of ME1? Geth. Right, they were so capable since forever. That's why they didn't dare to attack The Citadel or anything else of that escape before they had a huge ass Reaper in the front. Um... The Nexus is a ship, a big one. Its purpose being similar to the Citadel, but not being an exact copy of the Citadel. The tech behind can be perfectly reachable. It's not like they chopped one of the Citadel's arm and began building from there. Cerberus was anti alien, yes, but they aren't anti human. I think you would know that. Sabotaging the Nexus or Ark would mean losses to all sides, not only Aliens, also stopping this tremendous feat we would accomplish. There's no reason for that to happen. Last time I checked, they saved thr Council as well. There you go your super anti alien nonsense. Where were they? Do you think they'd give us an exhaustive list of Reaper agents working in ME1? Why would they? They already explain in the story that the Reapers are capable of keeping species in their mouse trap over and over again for millions of years. That's all they need to say. Going out of their way to give us this exhaustive list of Reaper agents would take us out of the story. The size of a vessel/space station is important. None of the Council races understood how a ship that massive was held together and didn't fly apart. Both of our squad mates make a point of mentioning this when we first visit the Citadel. We were not capable of building as large as the Nexus... the largest thing that was build was an Asari dreadnought and that was lauded as some technological marvel. You keep thinking post-planning. What I'm trying to tell you is that Cerberus wouldn't have let the whole Nexus idea get out of the planning stages, let alone build anything. They would also have drummed up political opposition to any human participation in such an endeavor. Cerberus didn't save the Council. Shepard can save the Council. What are you talking about?
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2016 23:27:57 GMT
Watch the EA play vid. There are Alliance ships stationed close to the Arks. Reapers upgrade or not, they can't go against numbers. That's why they didn't dare before, and that's why they only attacked colonies in the Terminus System. What part of ground defenses you didn't understand? Ground. Defenses. I'm sure a single Alliance ship can be a worthy opponent, imagine more. There's no competition here. Just tell me what is drive's function. That's all I am asking you. You know that first part of my post was a joke, right? Hence the whistling emote. You know the Collectors have multiple ships, right? They didn't dare before because there was no reason. The are Reaper puppets, and Reapers operate on logic so if there isn't a logical reason they won't do it. Having a cycle break your containment however is a logical reason to interfere. Those ground defenses were anti-ship. What part of anti-ship don't you understand? The function of the ODSY drive is to recycle the static build up to power the ship rather than having to discharge it since if you didn't do that it would turn the ship to molten slag and kill everyone and everything aboard. Not one did the Reapers state their objectives as 'containment'
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Post by Iakus on Dec 2, 2016 23:29:59 GMT
And yeah a the Collector ship attacking any target in Sol would have been suicide, for them. But...but..."THEY'RE GOING TO HIT EARTH!!!!"
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2016 23:32:26 GMT
And yeah a the Collector ship attacking any target in Sol would have been suicide, for them. But...but..."THEY'RE GOING TO HIT EARTH!!!!" Probably the most nonsensical line in the trilogy given what we know about Collector capabilities, or lack there of.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:33:08 GMT
You know that first part of my post was a joke, right? Hence the whistling emote. You know the Collectors have multiple ships, right? They didn't dare before because there was no reason. The are Reaper puppets, and Reapers operate on logic so if there isn't a logical reason they won't do it. Having a cycle break your containment however is a logical reason to interfere. Those ground defenses were anti-ship. What part of anti-ship don't you understand? The function of the ODSY drive is to recycle the static build up to power the ship rather than having to discharge it since if you didn't do that it would turn the ship to molten slag and kill everyone and everything aboard. Not one did the Reapers state their objectives as 'containment' No, their purpose was to prevent advanced life evolving to a point they could create synthetic life that will wipe out all life. We are near that cusp hence them harvesting us. So letting enough of us go to repopulate and continue to advance is against their goals thus stopping us is only logical.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2016 23:34:12 GMT
But...but..."THEY'RE GOING TO HIT EARTH!!!!" Probably the most nonsensical line in the trilogy given what we know about Collector capabilities, or lack there of. Nah. That wasn't even close to the most nonsensical line in ME2, let alone the trilogy. That goes to the Lazarus Project explanation.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2016 23:35:30 GMT
Not one did the Reapers state their objectives as 'containment' No, their purpose was to prevent advanced life evolving to a point they could create synthetic life that will wipe out all life. We are near that cusp hence them harvesting us. So letting enough of us go to repopulate and continue to advance is against their goals thus stopping us is only logical. But they don't care though if a few slip through. Rachni, Protheans, Leviathans, as long as their goals are met they don't care.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Dec 2, 2016 23:38:16 GMT
No, their purpose was to prevent advanced life evolving to a point they could create synthetic life that will wipe out all life. We are near that cusp hence them harvesting us. So letting enough of us go to repopulate and continue to advance is against their goals thus stopping us is only logical. But they don't care though if a few slip through. Rachni, Protheans, Leviathans, as long as their goals are met they don't care. But enough "slipping through" to establish one ore more viable colonies would be too many. They'd continue to develop and, by their logic, develop synthetic life that would (inevitably) destroy all organic life.
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