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Post by Thrombin on Jan 12, 2017 23:44:26 GMT
That is not an accurate analogy. It is more like: A warship enter your water, do you assume that they are friendly? Or are you going to assume that they are enemies? How is it not? If you go out in space right now and find a heavily armored alien ship, you'll just assume they will wipe you out? YES! And would you rather not be armed to the teeth to defend yourself if they attack first? How is it your water? Space is not property of anyone, because it's f**k*ng BIG. We're not talking about encounters in space. In space they'll be at FTL and encounters at that speed just don't happen. We're talking about the Tempest having to approach alien worlds and engage in diplomacy with the natives. If an alien ship landed in 2017 America bristling with weapons and a tank then trundled out of the hatch what do you think the response would be? Every military resource would be dedicated to blowing it up. Guaranteed! It's possible that even an unarmed ship would be attacked but I would suggest that it would be considerably less likely for that to happen. The tempest's job is to find a suitable place to settle and co-exist with the races of Andromeda. If it meets any race at all the main priority is to try to establish peaceful relations. The AI cannot afford to get on the wrong side of any indiginous race. No matter how well armed the AI might be in general, it is alone without support with a fraction of the resources and numbers of the natives. Weapons would be absolutely counterproductive in that situation in my opinion. I think it makes perfect sense for the Tempest and Nomad not to present as a threat.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 23:48:16 GMT
How is it not? If you go out in space right now and find a heavily armored alien ship, you'll just assume they will wipe you out? How is it your water? Space is not property of anyone, because it's f**k*ng BIG. Think of it this way: even if they have a highly advanced galactic society, Andromeda has at least twice as much stars as the Milky Way, it's pretty much impossible to have everything settled. They could have as much as 98% of all galaxy undiscovered. It's pretty obvious they would run to other alien species, sooner or later. And yes, that's precisely my point: it is because you assume they CAN be hostiles that you have weapons. Your enemies, and you. So, there is many dangerous animals in space? Because that was what your analogy did say. "Their water" as in we are the strangers in their galaxy. And if they are expecting to encounter other ships, it is even better to not have big guns. Because then they may not feel that it is in their best interest to shoot at us in an pre-emptive strike. Instead they may feel secure enough to try to communicate with us first. I don't say that it is a foolproof idea. But as I said before you can either try to pick everything it apart, which will not do anything else than make you dislike the game. Or you can accept that Bioware have their own idea and that they will not change it. Yes, there are many jungles and men with guns in space as well. That is what my analogy said. Well, if we find extra galactic aliens in our galaxy in the future, we'll just assume they came to destroy our homes because they would have means to defend themselves? Besides, how would the Andromedans even know we are from the outside? Will we come with labels in our ships saying we've came 2.5 million light years away? The only way to be completely sure is to try contact. And yes, it's not foolproof because your idea was that it's better to just go explore in the Tempest unprepared and just try to evade conflict and run. And that will not be always the case. Some fights you just can't escape. Conflict will happen. Death will happen because our first instinct is survival, not diplomacy. So we need to be prepared, and use violence as a (last) resort. Now, I'm not even arguing Bioware's ability to make a plausible game, ship or characters. They could change a thing or two, but I'll still play and enjoy it. If that's how logic works in this universe, let's do it. It will still have moments of wonder in this game, I don't have any doubts. That's the most important thing for me, it plays with our ability to imagine what would be like out there, in space.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 12, 2017 23:49:34 GMT
We're not talking about encounters in space. In space they'll be at FTL and encounters at that speed just don't happen. We're talking about the Tempest having to approach alien worlds and engage in diplomacy with the natives. If an alien ship landed in 2017 America bristling with weapons and a tank then trundled out of the hatch what do you think the response would be? Every military resource would be dedicated to blowing it up. Guaranteed! It's possible that even an unarmed ship would be attacked but I would suggest that it would be considerably less likely for that to happen. The tempest's job is to find a suitable place to settle and co-exist with the races of Andromeda. If it meets any race at all the main priority is to try to establish peaceful relations. The AI cannot afford to get on the wrong side of any indiginous race. No matter how well armed the AI might be in general, it is alone without support with a fraction of the resources and numbers of the natives. Weapons would be absolutely counterproductive in that situation in my opinion. I think it makes perfect sense for the Tempest and Nomad not to present as a threat. A small exploration ship won't be threatening for an entire world even if it had some weapons. There are also other possible scenarios in which having some weapons would be useful, like encountering a hostile craft of more or less the same size, while not being able to run away due to the commander being on the ground for example. More OPTIONS are always useful. Since we are talking assumptions here, it would have to depend on the capabilities of the race in question. One scout ship may not be threatening to a dreadnaught, but against a race which has a lot smaller ships, it could be very threatening. Hell a single small ship armed with a Thanix canon could really wreck a lot of crap up with a primitive infrrestrcutre.
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Post by Wheeljack on Jan 12, 2017 23:54:27 GMT
Did anyone else zero in on that little terminal on the view port in the Pathfinder's room?
I'm thinking we may be able to either navigate or at least bring up information on planets from our room. That would be a nice little addition.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 23:54:40 GMT
How is it not? If you go out in space right now and find a heavily armored alien ship, you'll just assume they will wipe you out? YES! And would you rather not be armed to the teeth to defend yourself if they attack first? How is it your water? Space is not property of anyone, because it's f**k*ng BIG. We're not talking about encounters in space. In space they'll be at FTL and encounters at that speed just don't happen. We're talking about the Tempest having to approach alien worlds and engage in diplomacy with the natives. If an alien ship landed in 2017 America bristling with weapons and a tank then trundled out of the hatch what do you think the response would be? Every military resource would be dedicated to blowing it up. Guaranteed! It's possible that even an unarmed ship would be attacked but I would suggest that it would be considerably less likely for that to happen. The tempest's job is to find a suitable place to settle and co-exist with the races of Andromeda. If it meets any race at all the main priority is to try to establish peaceful relations. The AI cannot afford to get on the wrong side of any indiginous race. No matter how well armed the AI might be in general, it is alone without support with a fraction of the resources and numbers of the natives. Weapons would be absolutely counterproductive in that situation in my opinion. I think it makes perfect sense for the Tempest and Nomad not to present as a threat. Yes. I think we should just go without weapons as well. Shit, will we have that option? And there's no way we would find space stations and ships surrounding a planet or anything for that matter, where we would actually have to land... oh wait. "Every military resource would be dedicated to blowing it up. Guaranteed!" Yes, but would we just blow them up without trying contact first? Uhhh ohh. - See that alien ship with what seems to be big cannons that just landed Admiral? Blow it to hell. - Did they tried contact yet? - Don't care, blow it! - They are not firing yet, sir. - Blow it!! - Oh wait, they don't have any guns! - They let's go there and greet them, welcome them to our home! It's not like they can have ulterior motives or anything, or technology that we don't understand.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jan 13, 2017 0:03:12 GMT
Jesus Christ the game is beautiful.
I think my PC is going to explode. Here's hoping it's well optimized...
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 13, 2017 0:08:57 GMT
And they do, the Apex force, and the small arms, and likely fighter type vessels. I just think the AI made a lot of assumptions about what would happen when they got on the other side that they would be able to do things relatively quickly. Obviously those assumptions seemed to have been false. That's all very nice. Still, sending your best operatives in an unarmed ship to go about exploring an unknown galaxy is not particularly smart. You need to give them as much tactical options as possible. That's more important than having a room for orgies.Pfff, as if!
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Post by jagaro on Jan 13, 2017 0:11:28 GMT
Jesus Christ the game is beautiful. I think my PC is going to explode. Here's hoping it's well optimized... Based on my experience with DAI, probably not. Most likely will get it for ps4.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 13, 2017 0:13:50 GMT
I was wondering. The size of the captain's cabin kind of reflects the growing significance of romances in the Mass Effect games... That's the main directive in its design in Andromeda, a great place to spent time with your LI. Which is kind of sad really. It'd be much hotter to have the PC do it with the LI on the mess hall table, or in the engineering room like when Shepard and Miranda put on a show for Thane and Jacob.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 13, 2017 0:16:34 GMT
Yes. I think we should just go without weapons as well. Shit, we will have that option? And there's no way we would find space stations and ships surrounding a planet or anything for that matter, where we would actually have to land... oh wait. Not sure you're point here? Whether there are ships surrounding the planet or just a civilization on the planet you're going to want to approach them and talk to them. Alternatively you could just avoid them and go find another less populated planet. Depends on your goal! Point is, no amount of weapons will help in that situation and a heavily armed and armoured ship is both more likely to induce a hostile response and less capable of escaping one.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 13, 2017 0:19:02 GMT
I was wondering. The size of the captain's cabin kind of reflects the growing significance of romances in the Mass Effect games... That's the main directive in its design in Andromeda, a great place to spent time with your LI. Which is kind of sad really. It'd be much hotter to have the PC do it with the LI on the mess hall table, or in the engineering room like when Shepard and Miranda put on a show for Thane and Jacob. Jacob to Joker, Jacob to Joker, quick get down to the armory....bring popcorn. Don't ask. Joker: Why?! Jacob: Don't ask just hurry
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 13, 2017 0:26:59 GMT
They don't know what a Thanix cannon is, they might not even be able to scan your ship for weapons, and if a small scouting ship with some weapons is enough to threaten them, then they are probably not a threat anyway. Again, I don't see any reason not to have more options. There is a reason to not have the option if having the option is counterproductive to your end goal. Which is peaceful relations with the races of Andromeda. Nothing is more likely to cause a hostile and untrusting reception than a heavily armed and armoured spaceship which uses a tank for ground transport! Also it's not more options it's an alternative option. You are choosing between the option to have more offensive capability vs. the option to look less threatening and the option to be better at outpacing any pursuing hostiles. In my opinion the latter two options are more useful to the mission than the former.
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Post by Mihura on Jan 13, 2017 0:28:56 GMT
You guys are assuming we have no weapons, that is not true. We just do not have main guns because we are not a war ship. This is a fact.
Also the technology it is the same as ME 2, so having a super advance Normandy SR2 from 600 years in the future, is impossible. The Normandy was a unique project. Of course we can always ask again why not make it a private militar ship with a military crew? well we at this point do not know.
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Post by Muddy Boots on Jan 13, 2017 0:32:46 GMT
One thing that would be cool, but that I don't think they will do, is if your squadmates or crewmembers could spend time there without you having to invite them all the time. Like if you are becoming friends with the engineer s/he could sitting in the couch and read. Things like that. Mostly so it don't become so lonely there. That would be cool... makes it seem a bit less big and empty if you can have other people show up from time to time to hang out. It also convinced me even further I need that pet pyjak to liven up the place (am I the only one who could never bring themselves to shoot the ones on Tuchanka...? Just me?) Nope, not just you. I couldn't do it, either.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 13, 2017 0:34:01 GMT
Trying to find logic in Andromeda is like trying to find a needle in a haystack... with the people that own the haystack laughing because they know they never put a needle there.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 13, 2017 0:36:12 GMT
They don't know what a Thanix cannon is, they might not even be able to scan your ship for weapons, and if a small scouting ship with some weapons is enough to threaten them, then they are probably not a threat anyway. Again, I don't see any reason not to have more options. There is a reason to not have the option if having the option is counterproductive to your end goal. Which is peaceful relations with the races of Andromeda. Nothing is more likely to cause a hostile and untrusting reception than a heavily armed and armoured spaceship which uses a tank for ground transport! Also it's not more options it's an alternative option. You are choosing between the option to have more offensive capability vs. the option to look less threatening and the option to be better at outpacing any pursuing hostiles. In my opinion the latter two options are more useful to the mission than the former. No, that's not the end goal of the project. The end goal of the Andromeda Initiative is to settle Andromeda and create a means to connect Andromeda to the Milky Way.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 13, 2017 0:39:23 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
From briefing #3 at appx 1.32 "... Pathfinders operate the Nav system synced specifically to them..."
Who is this guy?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 13, 2017 0:40:42 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
From briefing #3 at appx 1.32 "... Pathfinders operate the Nav system synced specifically to them..."
Who is this guy?
Scott Ryder I'm guessing.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 13, 2017 0:41:09 GMT
There is a reason to not have the option if having the option is counterproductive to your end goal. Which is peaceful relations with the races of Andromeda. Nothing is more likely to cause a hostile and untrusting reception than a heavily armed and armoured spaceship which uses a tank for ground transport! Also it's not more options it's an alternative option. You are choosing between the option to have more offensive capability vs. the option to look less threatening and the option to be better at outpacing any pursuing hostiles. In my opinion the latter two options are more useful to the mission than the former. You can't have peaceful relations with other people when you're dead because you couldn't defend yourself. I mean, going to a new place with no way to defend yourself properly expecting the other people to be peaceful is probably the worst lesson one can take from history. So maybe that's exactly what the Ai thought. I mean, we will be killing members of the Ai so they clearly had no idea what they were doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 0:44:19 GMT
There is a reason to not have the option if having the option is counterproductive to your end goal. Which is peaceful relations with the races of Andromeda. Nothing is more likely to cause a hostile and untrusting reception than a heavily armed and armoured spaceship which uses a tank for ground transport! Also it's not more options it's an alternative option. You are choosing between the option to have more offensive capability vs. the option to look less threatening and the option to be better at outpacing any pursuing hostiles. In my opinion the latter two options are more useful to the mission than the former. You can't have peaceful relations with other people when you're dead because you couldn't defend yourself. I mean, going to a new place with no way to defend yourself properly expecting the other people to be peaceful is probably the worst lesson one can take from history. So maybe that's exactly what the Ai thought. I mean, we will be killing members of the Ai so they clearly had no idea what they were doing. QFT! Haven't laughed this hard in a long time.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 13, 2017 0:47:35 GMT
I don't get this whole 'We don't have guns on our vehicles so we avoid looking threatening' argument. By that logic, we wouldn't be carrying an armory on our person when we are on foot. Really any alien we encounter should be different enough that they don't even recognize our weapons as weapons. Plus there is this thing called concealable weapons, just like how the Normandy's main gun retracted into the ship so you didn't know they were even there.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 13, 2017 0:50:26 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
From briefing #3 at appx 1.32 "... Pathfinders operate the Nav system synced specifically to them..."
Who is this guy?
Scott Ryder I'm guessing. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I am referring to the pics below. This guy was discussed very very early as the potential antagonist. Notice in 2nd pic that dad Ryder is watching. Notice that dad and patfinder armours are different from the one in the pics.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 13, 2017 1:05:43 GMT
Scott Ryder I'm guessing. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I am referring to the pics below. This guy was discussed very very early as the potential antagonist. Notice in 2nd pic that dad Ryder is watching. Notice that dad and patfinder armours are different from the one in the pics.
I was referring to that pic below as well. It's clearly not an antagonist since our squad and crew are working alongside them with no fuss, so that makes me thing it was some rendition of Scott.
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Post by Elsariel on Jan 13, 2017 1:12:17 GMT
I don't get this whole 'We don't have guns on our vehicles so we avoid looking threatening' argument. By that logic, we wouldn't be carrying an armory on our person when we are on foot. Really any alien we encounter should be different enough that they don't even recognize our weapons as weapons. Plus there is this thing called concealable weapons, just like how the Normandy's main gun retracted into the ship so you didn't know they were even there. Well, the Tempest doesn't have a "main gun" but does that mean it has nothing for protection? Hopefully not. "Anything we can't outrun will have a tough time finding us" so... cloaking tech?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Jan 13, 2017 1:13:54 GMT
I don't get this whole 'We don't have guns on our vehicles so we avoid looking threatening' argument. By that logic, we wouldn't be carrying an armory on our person when we are on foot. Really any alien we encounter should be different enough that they don't even recognize our weapons as weapons. Plus there is this thing called concealable weapons, just like how the Normandy's main gun retracted into the ship so you didn't know they were even there. It is all about their ROE, maybe the pathfinders are only allowed to enter in a firefight on the ground. So having a scout ship makes more sense because they cannot escalate conflicts in space. Idk at this point I think we are missing critical information for this to make sense. For example, what if Alec Ryder has done some serious shit and now we are pathfinders with different ROE because of that, if people remember right one of the trailers with Alec Ryder has him ready to fight in a wild west vibe and in another saying peace was over. We really do know the whole story.
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