What are your expectations of Romances and differences in sexualities in Mass Effect: Andromeda? - R

My expectation is to be thoroughly underwhelmed

Only way up eh?

I'm bit worried about alienmances. I think Vetra is quite solid, but not too interested of Peebee. It also seems like no Drell that would have been solid pic for me. But maybe Salarian.. holding hope..

5 seconds later it'll be revealed she's a gay romance only, duh

There are always complains to no matter what happens. Someone doesn't like aliens, some doesn't humans, some doesn't like personality or what character stands for, some don't like looks.

Best to keep your options open

In my nearly five decades of existence, I have never consumed a piece of entertainment nor met a single person in real life that was so focused on gender and sexuality as recent BioWare games, and my hope is that the whole thing gets toned down a bit.

I expect a game about finding a new home for humanity in a new, unknown galaxy. We are the Pathfinder. It doesn't matter one iota whether my team is black, white, gay, straight, human, alien or whatever. What matters is that they stick together and do their jobs. The fate of humanity in a new galaxy rests on our shoulders. Given the circumstance, who in their right mind would care about gender and sexuality? I don't. Maybe after I've done my job, but that's not the part of the story we're playing.

And as I've said elsewhere, if a person's primary goal in life is romance and happiness with a loved partner, well... getting their frozen ass shipped to Andromeda is probably not a good way to start. Pretty sure that's not how BioWare sees it though.

Ha! 
My sentiment exactly. But who cares... keeping hope alive 

Here's the thing...

Okay, first off I actually generally agree with your point. I certainly don't play Bioware games just for the romance. Though I do enjoy them as a nice little side story. A way to help connect with a character that's different from the usual friendships and rivalries, which are also important. Yes, the game's overarching theme about finding a home and exploring a new galaxy is a focus, but... if all I cared about was the adventure, there's plenty of great games out there that have that. What sets Bioware apart for me is its characters. And my character. And the relationships between them - be it banter between party members or my character's developing romance with one of her squadmates. And, well, it's fun to speculate. So I do. If you don't think that's fun, then, there's plenty of other threads on topics that would surely interest you more

Now, regarding representation of race, sexuality, gender, etc. We talk about it with Bioware games because they are one of the few game developers out there that actually care. Or at least, that used to be the case. That seems to be changing, with more mainstream games coming out with female protagonists and major NPCs and those of color, etc. But again, it's because Bioware focuses so much on the characters that there's more discussion about representation among them. I was involved somewhat in the forums leading up to Fallout 4's release, and there was certainly talk about these topics, though not as many. Probably because the characters and our relationships with them are just not as important. Even then, there was a lot of backlash from LGBT gamers about the fact that you had to start the game as one half of a heterosexual couple (unless you came up with some elaborate headcanon to contradict what the game gives you). 

Here's my personal take on all that. I'm straight and I'm white, so for the most part the gaming world's got me covered in that respect. But, I'm female. And... the vast majority of games out there have a male protagonist. Okay, fine. What about the NPCs? Can I at least find something I can relate to there? I mean, there's women in those games, right? Surely there are strong women, who, like me, aren't ultra feminine. Who think logically, who are curious about the world and want to have a stake in it, and who have their own goals and agenda. Who have some purpose beyond being there just to help the man achieve his goals, or being the catalyst for him to go get revenge or whatever, or to wait around to be saved by him, or be there to help him develop as a character. Hey, Bioware does! Other games... well, if I look hard enough, sure. Like, really hard. If I were gay, or not white, I'd have to search even harder. If I were trans... 'oh, hey, Krem! And... uh... hm.'

So, to summarize, the reason this conversation is unique to Bioware games is because Bioware games are really really unique in this regard. In that they have romance at all, and that they do try to be inclusive. And that they are open to hearing about how they can do better with both.

Most of people thinking about the sex and want a mate, no matter, what is their job. The lonely hero, who absolutely don't need sex, love, and entertainment as long as the work is not finished, is not very common... and I think, probably a bit boring and annoying.

What a well-written post!

I agree with you 100%.  It's not that I require there to be gay romances in games for me to enjoy them.  But it adds tremendously when it's there.  I have played, literally, hundreds and hundreds of games that didn't offer any glimpse of gay characters and I've enjoyed them immensely.  But, when there is a gay character included, it stands out to me in a way that I appreciate it.  It means that the developer recognizes that there are stories that can be told with gay characters as well and I love that and, frankly, it makes me more invested in that company.  Devs like Bioware, who have really been at the frontline by including this for quite longer than other devs, have even more of my respect because they've done so even facing backlash from people who don't appreciate it.

I think of it like this:  In a game like Skyrim, where the "romance" feature can barely be called that, it costs them absolutely nothing to include s/s options.  So why not include it if it's going to make a (growing) percentage of the population happy?  Yet people still QQ'd over it.  "It's so unrealistic!  It took me out of the game!"  <eyeroll>

I do find it very telling that the VAST majority of the people who are against increased LGBT relationships in games are people who wouldn't play them to begin with.  There are not very many people who enjoy LGBT content who are saying:  "Whoa, this is way too much content".  So it's all about perspective and, frankly, individual selfish wants (on both sides).  And we all need to recognize that.  As much as I want to see more LGBT representation, it's because I enjoy that content and want more of it (and, yes, I think that it's actually really needed for LGBT youth as well, but that's another story).  And those who think it's "unrealistic" and "shoved down their throats", those people need to just own that they are being selfish and stop trying to rationalize it as "realism" or this faux-altruism ("Bioware is losing their straight male player base so they need to change this for their own good!").

Two final thoughts: 

First, if you don't enjoy LGBT content, you have options.  You can not play games that include it.  There are still hundreds of games released each year that don't (versus maybe a dozen that do).  You can play those games and choose not to engage actively in optional LGBT content.  No one is forcing you to romance Kaidan.  So don't.  It's avoidable.   But you can't expect to avoid any and all references to LGBT content.  I have the least amount of sympathy for those (again, almost exclusively straight men) who cry foul because there is an optional (literally) 1 minute discussion with a trans character in DA:I that they think is preachy.  Or those who have to select the "no thanks, I'm not interested in you" option with Cortez or Kaidan in ME3.  I've been turning down straight female characters for almost 20 years now.  I've been "forced" to engage in heterosexual content for 30+ years in games.  And I survived.  I assure you that you will as well.

Second, let's also not get carried away with how progressive Bioware really is.  Remember these statistics:

The first explicitly straight companion/squad member(s) in Bioware RPGs:  Baldur's Gate (1998) - almost 20 years ago
The first straight romances with companions/squad member(s) in Bioware RPGs:  Baldur's Gate 2 (2000) - over 15 years ago
The first lesbian companion/squad member AND first lesbian romance in Bioware RPGs:  KOTOR (2003) - almost 15 years ago
The first s/s romances with bisexual male companion/squad member in Bioware RPGs:  Jade Empire (2005) - over 10 years ago
The first explicitly gay male romance in Bioware RPGs:  Mass Effect 3 (2012) - only 4 years ago
The first explicitly gay male companion/squad member in Bioware RPGs:  Dragon Age: Inquisition (2014) only 2 years ago

The total number of s/s male romances ever in Bioware RPGs:  NINE (Sky, Zevran, Anders, Fenris, Kaidan, Cortez, Dorian, Iron Bull, & Theron)
The total number of female romances for straight male players in SWTOR alone:  THIRTEEN

So, as far as some of you think we've come, it's really very recent and not very extensive.

Pfff. Only in death does duty end. 

But seriously, you are right that most people desire that, my point was just that some situations are less likely to invoke or support such desires. I remember times in my life where I wondered whether 2 hours of sleep per night was enough because that gave me more hours to keep moving and stay warm. Where I had to dig some frozen ground while worrying about team red on the other side of the hill. I assure you I didn't think of romance much then.

But in the end, that's not the style of adventure BioWare creates, so there will be plenty of quiet moments on the Tempest or the Nexus to, uh, get to know people better.

Guys I have to thank you all for such great comments, its very interesting to hear all of your opinions.

Just to let everyone know, I'm gonna leave this thread for another 2 weeks for some more discussion to take place before i stop it to analyse it.


So just some additional questions based on some of your comments:

1) in addition to your expectations of what is going to come in Andromeda, who have been some of your favourite LGBTQ characters, favourite male/female characters etc, and what made them your favourite?

2) If the content is there as 'optional', is that a good thing? is it better than having a character who is explicitly LGBTQ for example? What if it is not 'in your face' that they are LGBTQ?

Im sorry to throw all these questions at you, I'm just very interested to hear what you guys think

I'm still holding out for a hero... a gay hero 

Seriously though, what Bioware is doing is amazing. But there's one type of character that still doesn't really exist out there. A gay protagonist (male) in a triple-A game. Personally I thought the reboot of the DMC game would have been a great opportunity to let Dante be that. Imagine him in the game, everything the same (yes I know a lot of try hard fans got crazy mad over the hair, but whatever) but instead of the girl it was a guy who helps him out and eventually becomes his boyfriend. Also he's one of the most attractive virtual guys I've ever seen 

And any other game where you have a default protagonist. Witcher for example. And so on. We're still missing that (as far as I can think at the moment anyway, but I'm not taking into consideration indie games or small productions, I'm only talking about the triple-A gaming industry).

A step in the right direction is having characters like Steve and Dorian. As in characters whose sexual orientation is not "explained", "justified" or in any way "softened up" in order to not scare the delicate and sensitive homophobes out there. I know there are people who didn't like Steve's story (for various reasons - personally I thought it felt rushed, as in he got over his dead husband too fast) or Dorian's story (again for various reasons - personally I didn't have a problem with this one; homophobic parents are a very believable reality within the DA universe, and especially in Tevinter). But I hope we will get a triple-A game where the protagonist is a gay guy with a love story sometime soon. 

As for favorite characters. Quite a few in the DA and ME series.

Dorian, Kaidan, Steve, Anders > all time favorites.

Fenris, Zevran, Morrigan, Flemeth, Isabela, Cassandra, Legion, Mordin, Joker > close second.

Sure there are others too, and plenty of tiny characters that appear for a few minutes or less in the entire game along the way, but yeah. As for what made them great for me, well, I could go into detail for each one, but I can generally sum it up with "good writing" and "I liked the personality". Besides that, I'm also happy with characters like Dorian, who are innovative and bold in an industry that is generally dominated by questionable marketing (ripe with heterosexism and preconceptions) and homophobia (either by omission or outright).