Trans characters in Mass Effect Andromeda

More for plot reasons? I don't remember a harem being part of the plot.

If I recall, Solas was not originally a romance (?).
Though granted, I believe Cullen's romance was more of a 'fan service'...

DAI was still ok in terms of romance options but I definitely think there shouldn't be even more but apparently we WILL be getting more. I don't see the point tbh.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE romances. I can get obsessed about ships like you wouldn't believe it. And Kaidan in ME1 was as if Bioware threw the perfect guy at me as a player He was 100% my type of guy in looks and personality. I was in heaven, believe me. I can certainly see the appeal of such an emotionally enhanced gaming experience.

I guess I've grown out of love with Bioware romances a bit since because I personally find most of them not well written. Or maybe how Bioware writes romances just doesn't appeal to me. I find Bioware's idea of flirtation godawful and really cringe-worthy. Or downright creepy. Bioware writes amazing friendships but the romances are meh to me. ESPECIALLY the ones written for straight women. I do NOT like drama romances. My favorite is Alistair. And Liara is overall the best Bioware romance to me because she's just the sweetest most supportive person ever. I don't care for all their angry elves, their dead wife romances, their dumped you for a better woman romances, their SM oxman...

So maybe that's why I don't particularly care about the number of romances. Bioware could give me ten options and I would probably not be any happier. I did not enjoy the Solas romance one bit. It was Fenris all over again. I started to RESENT him. I liked the breakup scene, it was the only good one. I liked the tragic aspect of the relationship. What it means for Lavellan to learn that her whole life was a lie. That was great stuff. As a story romance I recommend it. But I do not understand how anybody could swoon over this arrogant maniac (no offense).

What I want is ONE well-written romance. Be it straight or gay, it doesn't matter to me. The most touching was Shepard and Liara. The friendship was already amazing. I tend to like romances of characters I like as people. And how much I end up liking them has nothing to do with sexuality. Mine or the character's. I really liked Cortez and should do his romance at some point. And I wish my inquisition could have romanced Dorian because he's such a fun sweet guy.

I guess I have a very different view and expectation of fictional romances these days. I'm not looking for somebody to drool over. I guess it's a bonus if I personally find them hot. Kaidan was nice at the time but his arc really disappointed me in ME3. So Bioware ruined even that character for me. I treat video game romances no other than TV romances. Either I really like a pairing or I don't. I watch two characters hit it off and see things from their perspective. I actually sabotaged myself all these years looking for a romance based on appeal to me as a person. Because they almost always ended up really NOT being my thing at all. Which is why after the Solas fiasco (me and my stupid elf thing, nothing but grief!) I'll completely ignore my impulse to play my own gender and just go with the person that seems the nicest and least messed up. And somehow often that's not the straight/bi guy.

After DAI came out I joked about Bioware's "conspiracy" of giving women shit romances and making the nicest companions non-romanceable. Also there's this freaky pattern where the nicest unpretentious characters are (straight) warriors (Alistair, Aveline, Cassandra). Mages are all a freak show (except Dorian). So from now on when it comes to Dragon Age anyway I stay away from elves and mages in particular and romance the warrior. No matter if male or female. I just want to see a sweet romance.

Perhaps my issues with romances are more personal than anything else. However, regardless... it's my opinion that romances are NOT what Bioware does best and so I want less focus on something that usually ends up disappointing me anyway. Both emotionally and narrative-wise. Does that make sense?

I know many people are super happy with Bioware romances. And that's awesome. I'm in the minority with my opinion on the writing and that's fine. I'm just providing a different perspective. I'm not demanding no romances or anything. I'm always looking forward to them hoping there will be one I actually like this time, haha. But if there's not I'll still enjoy the game.

Haven't read the whole thread but here's my input:

Krem in DAI was a cool character but I never took the "When did you know?" dialogue option because I didn't need to hear about his transition because it it a story I've heard many times from real trans men and women. I believe his being in the game was a good step forward for trans representation but he wasn't much of a pivotal character so it wasn't anything ground-breaking. I'm glad that he was willing to talk openly about it with the player character (something many trans folk get tired of doing but feel they have a responsibility to do) so that any open-minded, but maybe uninformed, player could educate themselves should they so wish. For everyone else who either didn't care or were offended (?), he could easily be treated like any other guy or ignored completely. I just got to know him as the Bull's best and loyal buddy and I liked him.

As for Jien Garson being a trans woman; I'm all for it but I don't see how it can ever come up in a society where changing one's physiology to match one's mind/soul/spirit gender (These words are silly to make a point. I mean "actual" gender. Jamie Clayton is a woman.) is likely to be considered as routine as getting LASIK for those that need the procedure. She might drop a comment into a funny story about her childhood, "Back when I was Johnny..." but then should the player character really be able to react with "What do you MEAN 'Johnny'??? You're a dude?!" or "That's so interesting! Tell me more about this gender reassignment business that every educated human in the galaxy already knows about. I missed biology class that day and I never once watched a vid, read a book or looked at the Extranet... or the News... or spoken to another human being outside my family my whole life."

Unlike the coming out stories that make think "Oh, that old chestnut.", stories about gender identity are still worth telling but I think they'd have to do it through the eyes of a less advanced alien race if they are going to do it in the Mass Effect Universe. Everyone could be horrified that the prejudice still existed and Jien could talk about how there was a time in human history that people like her were treated that way too. It could work but I feel like these stories have much more impact in a contemporary setting like OITNB which reflect the real life struggles of people alive today instead of some analogue so far removed in time and space. I can feel and sympathise with Sophia's struggles and cheer for her when she overcomes them but Jien's just gonna be another lady on a spaceship who had a medical procedure in her youth.

And finally there's the issue of how the trans community wants to be represented in contemporary media. Do they want these characters' gender identity to constantly be a topic of conversation or do they want to see other trans men and women just living their lives the way that cis-folk do? The answer is that there is no answer because everyone is different. I'm gay and I like seeing gay characters in my games but I don't want them to talk about how hard it is to be gay or tell me their coming out tale because I have already heard a million of them and lived one of them myself. So for me, the best representation is for the gay guy to just go on living his life (or saving the galaxy) with its ups and downs that don't always have to revolve around his sexuality. For other (probably younger) guys, they may want to see that because it's still fresh for them. I know Dorian reached a lot of players with his story but I wouldn't exactly call that "entertainment" for me. Give me Captain Jack Harkness instead please.

Have any of you been to Singapore? Everyone is mixed race at one point or another. Kaidan is a legit Angmoh either way.

Anyway, kinda wish they hadn't muddle up with Miranda's biology. She is a modified clone of her father. But I guess there will be more backlash against her.

The only problem I've ever had with the way Bioware has included transgender characters in their games is that, so far, they have not allowed the player to disagree with the premise.

With Krem in DAI, we were presented with what some of us would call a woman dressing and acting like a man, all in the face of biological fact. Krem's perception that it is not biology that makes her a man or woman does not negate our own perception that disagrees. And the fact that our characters were never able to express that is what bothered me, especially in a world like Dragon Age where an opinion like that is not even politically incorrect. Our reactions were restricted to, essentially, "Really, why?", "That's cool". No chance to say "No, that's a load of ****." Otherwise, I found the conversation interesting in that it gave new insights into Qunari culture. Of course, Iron Bull gave us that in general.

So regardless of what they do or do not do with transgendered characters in MA:A, what I'd like is for them to provide a way for my character not to go along with the politically correct version of reality. I doubt I will get my wish, as I'm sure my opinions qualify as hate speech to Bioware, and as such are not worth airing. Such is life. They'll make the game they want, and I'll enjoy it or not as I see fit.

While I'm always for more player choices, I don't really see how not being able to tell somebody that you don't like what they are as a big deal. What I mean is that there is already different races and hate/disagreement between them, so it is not that hard to assume that how a person see him/herself as a minor thing.

And you can always think of it as just ignoring it because you want their manpower, it would be a bad move to make them angry because you don't agree with the 2nd in command. (And you CAN kill Krem )

Btw, are there any instances in the series (ME and DA) that we can say "ugh, <insert gender, sexuality, identity>" that is not tied to one of the races? I can't recall any.

In my opinion, no one should be forced to accept another person's subjective perception of anything. That rings of tyranny. In the end that's my biggest problem with transgenderism(or at least those who defend it as a right all must accept or be labelled a bigot*NOT SAYING YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE*). You can think of yourself and present yourself however you like. But that doesn't mean other people have to go along. Identity isn't just what you think yourself to be or what you present yourself as. It's also what others perceive you to be. It's a negotiated construct between you and everyone you meet. Being cut out of this negotiation, and being forced to accept another person's subjective feelings as fact is something that truly does bother me. In the same way it would bother me if we were forced to accept Wrex's subjective opinion on the Genophage, despite the objective reality that Krogan culture is a violent, clan-based culture that, if left unchecked and with the high birth-rate and long lifespan of the species, could jeopardize galactic peace. Doesn't mean Wrex is wrong. It just means that it can be debated. I don't appreciate how Bioware basically cut off all debate as far as Krem goes. You either accept Krem(and Iron Bull's) view of gender and identity, or shut up.

As to ignoring it, that's typically what I do. The only option my Inquisitors select is "So, what about all these other folks in your band of merry men/women". Basically trying to change the subject. It's the only option that maintains my character's general opinion on the matter. Any other response allowed by Bioware in that scene doesn't fit. Hardly the first time that's happened, though. So I just roll with it. Also, I DO kill Krem. Not because of the topic at hand, but because an alliance with the Qunari and the lives of the Qunari aboard that Dreadnaught outweigh a small band of mercenaries. They're soldiers, they knew death was in the cards the moment they entered their profession. I am glad that Bioware made this decision matter in Trespasser. It's one of their better storytelling moments in DAI. It's just another reason I don't romance Bull. Plus, the whole BDSM thing.

As far as saying "ugh, <insert gender, sexuality, identity>", I can't say I can think of anything in Dragon Age or Mass Effect that allows us to say that kind of thing. But more to the point, that's not necessarily what I want. And I may hove phrased it wrong in my original post. I don't necessarily want the chance to insult Krem, or anyone else. I just want the chance to reasonably disagree with their premise. A chance to say something like "I understand what you're saying, and I think you're wrong" would be more than enough for me. I don't necessarily want to be dismissive. Just given the chance to voice a contrary opinion. Much like how in DA:O we were allowed to reject Andrastianism altogether, even as a Human Noble. The Warden was never allowed to say "ugh, religious zealots". They were however allowed to say "You know I don't believe in the Maker.". That's all I want. Much the same way that Atheists wanted the chance to reject religion in DAII, and didn't really get that with Hawke. I know I might not get what I want, and I'm not saying that if I don't, then I won't by MEA when it comes out. Just giving my two cents on the internet. Hope I've come off as respectful. I really am trying.

There are many instances where you are "forced" to accept someone's perception, particularly when you ask their opinion on something that's personal to themselves. Sometimes you were allowed input to explore that opinion, but it was rarely in disagreement. In this particular case, the input was inquisitive, with the player allowed to ask questions that can provide more insight into that belief. 

Just because you were "forced" to listen to that perception without putting forth a conflicting opinion, and I put forced in quotations because you could have stopped the discussion of the topic at any time, doesn't mean you were forced to agree with that opinion. You don't have to open your mouth every time you disagree with something. In fact, that was the whole point of the exchange.

The only reason this is an issue is because people made it one. The way it was handled in DAI was great, and I hope they do it again, and again, and again.

Trans characters in Mass Effect?

Ridiculous.

Body dysmorphia is a mental condition. I imagine that in the future we would have some kind of cure for this so that people can escape the torment of thinking they're something they're not.

Krem. Ugh. Krem is a woman. What is the point of all the male pronouns? How are men and women treated differently in Dragon Age anyway? Such pointless foolishness. She has tits and bleeds monthly. No man does that. She is simply pretending. Why encourage her behavior by going along with it?

People that suffer from this condition need psychological treatment. Not surgery. Post op regret is a real thing. Google it.

What would surgery accomplish anyway? Going under the knife to resemble something doesn't turn you into it.

I don't want this stuff in my games.

Please don't ban me